Starting 5 should be Simpson, A Williams, Griffiths, Hyatt (then Mag upon return) and Cliff. Bring Noah off the bench, also shorten the rotation and give less minutes to players. Hyatt and Fernandes coming off the bench provides this team a punch off the bench. Less Hyatt on the floor limits his mistakes and poor shot selection. I like JMike but he gets too many minutes, his minutes need to be cut back as he averages 21 minutes per game.
Austin Williams Needs to Start
- Thread starter RAC93
- Start date
Could be. Starting, maybe not, that doesn’t necessarily matter…but taking minutes from Noah yes.
On this team, JD needs to play more and Fernandez less, if for rebounding and on the ball defense only. Fernandez will be the weak link against B1G competition, and I think by a substantial amount. Starting Wolf over Cliff should at least be consideration, and should definitely be done if the season starts to fall apart.
Williams was good tonight. Will he be good next game? TBD.
Wolf can't start though. It's not working clearly
Wolf can't start though. It's not working clearly
This whole team is TBD…..anyone who shows SOMETHING out there on the court deserves minutes as no one is showing much really. No one stands out on this team.
The problem is this team is made up of a lot of bench players. Williams gave us a spark off the bench, hustles and gives a nice veteran presence. I don't know who are starters should be. Its bad.
That is a problem…..when you don’t have enough standouts to say here is our clear and best starting 5 unit. Hyatt is a bench player, Gavin and JMike are freshman best suited to come off the bench if we had a strong squad, Wolf is a bench player, Noah looks best suited coming off the bench. No one stands out on this team, that is a problem.
Starting 5 is not the combo we need. Williams played well and was one of the reasons for our 1st have comeback. Do not understand starting the second half with the starters. IT IS NOT WORKING.
Considering the starters were outscored 31-8 at the start of both halves it isn’t a bad place to look for a change. Same thing happened to start the St Pete’s game. What we’re doing now obviously isn’t working.
Exactly. Williams looked good last night in comparison to our other guards. However, all of our our guards are B1G bench players. Simpson and Fernandes together is a recipe for disaster as top guards like Shannon literally did whatever he wanted and we could do nothing about it. We are an extremely poorly constructed team.
This was my thought too as I watched up close in Trenton game 1. Austin Williams is a piece but he shouldn't be a starter. Same with Hyatt. We just don't have the talent this year.
My only optimism for rest of year is that Mag comes back and picks up where he left off.
I would like to have a little optimism that Pike lets Gavin off the leash too, but I'm not sure he will.
I agree with you about GG doing everything possible to avoid physical contact. That is an issue, but the reason he needs more minutes is that too many guys do everything possible to avoid SCORING. Cliff poor post game, poor shooting, lack of ability to finish at rim, missed free throws, and no drives and kick outs or dishes for dunks/layups by guards as issues with offense.
William was good in the first half .There wasn't one Rutgers player in double figures.Getting out rebounded by double digits was a deciding factor in Illinois dominating the game from beginning to the end.The talent disparity at every position was evident in this game,This will be a transition season where the flaws on the team might not be corrected.
I'm gonna sound like a broken record today. This was a Top 5 defense we faced. Giving up less than 60 a game. How the team looked yesterday does not forecast the future. Not against that defense and they were long and athletic. It was a matchup nightmare.
IMO, It's really how other teams felt in the last few years when Rutgers bottled them and made them look inept in their half court offense.
I think one of the announcers actually said they are doing to Rutgers what Rutgers did to other teams in the past few years. Lol
We'll likely miss the tournament for second year in a row. If the two five stars are coming, that's fine. If they find a way to flee, it's not. that's the bottom line
The team battled back and cut the lead to easily striking distance at the half. The RAC crowd was really into it. The momentum was shifting. A big comeback win was possible
Then Pike just starts the same starting 5 that dug us the hole in the first place and we give up a run to start the 2nd half. It was baffling. It was so disappointing and deflating as a fan. Love Pike but that cost us any shot at the win
exactly...we used to be long and rebounded and win 50/50s.
Mag doesn't want to play
Cliff isnt playing hard
Hyatt is Hyatt
Gavin, the new face of the program, is the softest player I have ever seen in a RU rotation
Agreed, I was immediately disappointed A Williams was not starting second half. Also wanted Gavin to start, I know Gavin has his toughness and defensive issues but this team needs scoring. It’s certainly not coming from the low post play of the big men. The second half starting lineup I wanted to see was Simpson, A Williams, Griffiths, Hyatt, and Wolf with Noah and Cliff benched. Then quickly rotate in JMike as first man off the bench 2nd half and just relentlessly press Illinois. The press had very little impact in second half. Scoring is first needed so you can press, that’s where Rutgers needs to have Gavin on the floor more.
Team is losing its identity it seems. Then Cliff leaves next year. TBD what interior defense rebounding and rim protection will look like with Wolf and Lathan more below the rim type players
I'll worry about that in October 2024. It can not be said enough how important Cliff and Myles has been to this program.
Even against bad teams that starting 5 has gotten off to slow starts. It isn’t an effective lineup and I don’t understand why Pike seems so committed to it.
Exactly we had 2 points in 5 minutes against St Peters that starting lineup is horrible and with both Cliff and Woolfolk out there together you’re really risking both getting fouls and having no backup center which happened against Illinois as Woolfolk fouled out
Also its not like with both of those guys out there we are getting any more rebounds
At this point, I'm guessing this year will be good at getting woolfolk, jmike and griffin some experience for next year. Just start jmike, Austin Williams, Griffiths, Hyatt, cliff....chalk this year up
I can only repeat this so many times because fans have been in denial since the spring and summer and fans are ignoring the recruiting that's taken place.
I like Austin Williams off the bench.....I like J Mike off the bench......this season is about getting 3 to 4 players enough experience this year, to see if they can be reliable enough for 2024-25. It doesn't mean that those players automatically get minutes, BUT I am saying the goal was to get those players minutes this year.
I hope fans start listening and ignoring the obvious. The goal to play faster and up tempo is to avoid the types of games like Saturday. The overreacting about Saturday is absurd, Cliff had a crappy game on both ends and the defensive fundamentals disintegrated.
There is literally no difference between Austin Williams, once he is in actual game shape and the stat lines from last year in the backcourt. Same for Griffiths and Davis. Fans act as if we didn't have a dozen or so games, where Spencer went 3-12, 2-12 etc.
It's certainly possible to start Austin, Noah as long neither gobbles up 30 to 33 minutes a game. That suits no purpose in having them do that, it would be no different if it was Spencer and Mulcahy. The difference is Noah and Austin are 14 to 22 MPG pieces that ate not preventing us from developing Simpson Davis and Griffiths.
Having Mulcahy and Spencer playing 32 to 34 minutes this year, which is what both players would have required or earned, stunts the growth and development of Simpson, Davis, Griffiths this season. Austin, Noah won't do that and both, along with Simpson and Davis, transition this program away from a slower half court style, playing games in the score range of the low to mid 50s.
For the fans not in favor of Woolfolk at the 4, we have to be realistic about what players will be at the 4 along side Ace Bailey.
Woolfolk
Dylan Grant
Bryce Dortch
Mawot Mag
Antonio Chol
Do we need FIVE players for one or maybe 1.5 positions of minutes.... hope fans know or understand that's not even considering any transfers in or out, but if you are paying attention, we don't need 5 players at that spot. Woolfolk is competing for improvement now and to continue as an option for 2024-25 at the 4 and backup 5 with Sommerville.
The locks that will be here at the 4 for next year are the 3 2024 commits. Everyone else will need to earn their minutes or prove they can play an uptempo style, grab rebounds and play faster for next year.
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NJH......
You are taking one side of what really is what is happening internally....maybe I am overthinking it.
Program has been built getting lightly recruited players who are mostly long and having them outwork and defend at a level that very few programs do. Our program went from a joke to being on the map.
We now have highly recruited players that want to come here (putting aside why). It isn't binary, but now we are asking a coaching staff to change the way we play and everything we do to match the new talent we have.
You are saying change the program to adapt to the players. I am saying that completely goes against what the coaching staff knows and how they have been successful.
Maybe terrible analogy.....it's like having Mouse Davis as the offensive coordinator (run and shoot) and then giving him a bruising tight end and a full back, both who are really good.
You are taking one side of what really is what is happening internally....maybe I am overthinking it.
Program has been built getting lightly recruited players who are mostly long and having them outwork and defend at a level that very few programs do. Our program went from a joke to being on the map.
We now have highly recruited players that want to come here (putting aside why). It isn't binary, but now we are asking a coaching staff to change the way we play and everything we do to match the new talent we have.
You are saying change the program to adapt to the players. I am saying that completely goes against what the coaching staff knows and how they have been successful.
Maybe terrible analogy.....it's like having Mouse Davis as the offensive coordinator (run and shoot) and then giving him a bruising tight end and a full back, both who are really good.
Another question......
It should be obvious how tough the transition for Gavin to play defense. I'd expect the same for Dylan and Ace. I think they at least have the lateral quickness and physicallity to eventually succeed.
Do we change the entire defensive schemes....sometime switching 1 thru 5 just because we have a player that can't hack it out there?
It should be obvious how tough the transition for Gavin to play defense. I'd expect the same for Dylan and Ace. I think they at least have the lateral quickness and physicallity to eventually succeed.
Do we change the entire defensive schemes....sometime switching 1 thru 5 just because we have a player that can't hack it out there?
I don't think it's as drastic as you are making this out to be.
Let's avoid looking at what happened last year and look at the 3 years prior to that. We appear to be as a fanbase, in some sort of belief that winning in the 50s was sustainable.
The problems for RU start and end with the inability to guard at the wing position and the inability to stretch the floor and score from the wing position.
The next wide gap on this roster, which RU needed to improve upon, is getting to the FT line. You cannot get to the line unless you draw fouls via post ups or driving to the basket and defeating the defender, 1 on 1.
The more consistent winning teams, have players from 1 to 9 or 10, who can defend multiple positions without consistent fouling and that same player on offense, can shoot, dribble, drive and draw fouls.
I think Greene, you will really like the changes or upgrades at the PF positions for 2024. We see some of the same things on basketball and notice some of the same details. Ace Bailey is wildly athletic, but actually enjoys defense and erasing shots. Dylan Grant is a player that is an advanced level athlete defender than Mag, but also is very springy and can shoot and attack the basket with bad intentions. Dortch is similar, just thinner and as quick. He probably needs more muscle but looks like a team captain guy down the road.
Add these 3 to Jeremiah Williams and I have ZERO doubt a lot of the anxiety about this season will be forgotten. We just need to "stress-test and develop" Simpson, Gavin and Davis with Woolfolk and see how they'll fit together in 2024-25. It's not going to be an immediate results situation next year, but the pieces are there to get to the defensive presence you like....
This 2023-24 team will get better. I don't have any concerns about what player development happens.
I also just will add that if/when Dylan Harper commits, he's actually an unselfish player, who can get his own offense. It's going to be a lot of bumps and bruises for the roster.
My last point is Lathan Sommerville is a true big, who faces the basket and can score. He is not a Cliff defender, but his offense and what we can do, expands when he arrives. We haven't seen a RU or Pike program with a true 5 who can faceup and score and then also post up.
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Moot argument at this point....with the changing landscape of college basketball I think there is a path to win keeping temp in the low 60s and winning rock fights in the high 50s.
Houston and San Diego State are examples of that.
Of the top 10 adjusted defensive efficiency teams last year 7 of them made the Sweet 16.
The other 3....St. Mary's 5 seed, Iowa State 6 seed and RU
Houston and San Diego State are examples of that.
Of the top 10 adjusted defensive efficiency teams last year 7 of them made the Sweet 16.
The other 3....St. Mary's 5 seed, Iowa State 6 seed and RU
I don't want to over react to one game. We kind of know Noah's top end. I want to see what AWill can do against starters. Pike is far more comfortable with a slow start than I am. JMike will grow but I don't see Noah finding a next level.
Hyatt has to start. If not the best shooter, he’s second. And a better defender than that other player. For better or worse, Noah is the best PG on the roster. Williams, Simpson and Davis aren’t PGs.
I am gonna try and take a victory lap as I posted this thread title over a month ago. Post enough and you get one right I guess, the old even a broken clock is right twice a day theory. I also said Gavin should start so I guess I effed that up.
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