Big Ten non-conference scheduling for 23-24, a running thread of scheduled games
- Thread starter Local Shill
- Start date
Nah, you're not getting it.
We played 25 power conference teams last year. I know you'd rather play 26 or 27, but we didn't play anything resembling an "NEC" schedule and you know it.
Filling out the rest of your schedule after the 23 power conference games with NEC-like teams != dropping down to the NEC. Our NET SOS was #41! It's not anything impressive but it's not bad either.
The committee told us our OOC SOS was an issue lol. They clearly want us to adjust.
Its no use. These people will not budge on support for a yearly goal of non conference SOS of 325
Was that really as much of an issue as us screwing the pooch in games we should have won down the stretch? I don't want to hear about there being no recency bias - clearly that's crap. And for the record, most of us would like to see a better or more entertaining OOC schedule. Maybe some of us are just bored with these threads pulverizing a dead horse.
Technically, yes.
We still could have afforded to drop those games if we played like 2 good teams OOC.
you could have replaced Temple with Gonzaga and it would have helped the resume.
That’s the point being made.
And to be more direct about it. This is the natural next growth step for the program. It’s time to spotlight some guys on a national stage.
Pike figured out that you need to pound these bad teams. That helped our metrics a lot last year. I don’t get why he hasn’t figured out the schedule thing yet. While I want high end OOC games even if he doesn’t want to go down that road just don’t schedule terrible teams. There are plenty of non P5 teams that are easy wins yet still in the 100s.
I don't support it! If I were in charge I would create a (slightly) tougher OOC schedule. I would definitely ditch the Central Connecticut level teams. It's just not a big or important problem.
This point is really dumb, because you guys are doing the thing again where you're like "well, if we had a tougher schedule AND THE SAME RECORD that would be better". Yeah, no shit, if you can retroactively go back and change the games you lost to be against Gonzaga instead of Temple that would help you lol, but that's not how it works. Against a tougher schedule you will, on average, lose more games and thus be back to the same place. If we're going to go back and retroactively change the schedule based on whether we won or lost we would also be better off just changing the Temple, Miami, and Seton Hall games to cupcake games (you know, assuming we won them).
Also you guys fail to read the implied part of the message when someone says you were left out "because of non-conference SOS".
They are NOT saying "you did enough to be in, but we penalized you for the number in the NC SOS cell." They ARE saying "your 19-14 record isn't that impressive against that schedule".
If Oral Roberts hadn't won their conference tournament and ended up being left out at 29-5, someone could say the problem was "strength of schedule". But that's really not the problem, the problem is the five losses against the schedule. Saying "strength of schedule" is just a shorthand for saying "the record needs to be adjusted for the schedule, and the schedule wasn't that hard". You can have whatever schedule you want if you win the number of games you should.
They are NOT saying "you did enough to be in, but we penalized you for the number in the NC SOS cell." They ARE saying "your 19-14 record isn't that impressive against that schedule".
If Oral Roberts hadn't won their conference tournament and ended up being left out at 29-5, someone could say the problem was "strength of schedule". But that's really not the problem, the problem is the five losses against the schedule. Saying "strength of schedule" is just a shorthand for saying "the record needs to be adjusted for the schedule, and the schedule wasn't that hard". You can have whatever schedule you want if you win the number of games you should.
The thing is though, its not like this program has been ripping through its shitty OOC schedule year after year.
Actually quite the opposite. The program has consistently dropped games they aren’t supposed to.
But we continue to schedule as if that’s not the case?
Last years team after 33 games was NOT good enough to absorb more games, when it has no depth and no quickness to play 3 games in 3 days. I know fans don't want to hear this, but we watch enough RU games to know what a limited roster looks like.
I will say it again.....the decline of Seton Hall and loss to Seton Hall at home and getting robbed at Ohio State, mixed with fumbling the Minnesota game, is 95% of not making the NCAAs, and it was NOT the OOC schedule.
I am 100% OK with playing a holiday tournament event, just drop the Seton Hall series which is mandated to accommodate SHU, because the game is always slotted in December.
When you play 2 very solid or at least 1 ranked B1G opponent in December, on top of having to play SHU, who now has nothing to lose by playing RU, you have no incentive to add another 2 Power 5/6 teams to your schedule.
A) Drop the SHU series and I would agree with the argument. It doesn't help in years when you play them at home, instead of a neutral game or road game.
B) if you remove one of the 4 more important games in December, you can spread out those OOC games, over 7 weeks. Right now, unless SHU somehow pulls a rabbit out of the hat in the portal this spring, it is another St Bona, Temple, UMass type of game, where RU is now the more recognized program in the state and they now have something to play for in beating RU.
I would argue that even though I am not necessarily sure St John's would do it, but RU is better off playing St John's at MSG every year and splitting the ticket sales and gate 50/50, vs playing Seton Hall. Even though Seton Hall is a "traditional or is a state rival", if fans are truly interested in Pike making upgrades, it is Pat Hobbs who has ties and allegiances to SHU and now RU and is enforcing this game as being played. And unless this game is moved from December, I don't see this happening in 2023-24......once we have 2024-25 recruiting buttoned up, I'm fairly certain, this issue goes away.
I will say it again.....the decline of Seton Hall and loss to Seton Hall at home and getting robbed at Ohio State, mixed with fumbling the Minnesota game, is 95% of not making the NCAAs, and it was NOT the OOC schedule.
I am 100% OK with playing a holiday tournament event, just drop the Seton Hall series which is mandated to accommodate SHU, because the game is always slotted in December.
When you play 2 very solid or at least 1 ranked B1G opponent in December, on top of having to play SHU, who now has nothing to lose by playing RU, you have no incentive to add another 2 Power 5/6 teams to your schedule.
A) Drop the SHU series and I would agree with the argument. It doesn't help in years when you play them at home, instead of a neutral game or road game.
B) if you remove one of the 4 more important games in December, you can spread out those OOC games, over 7 weeks. Right now, unless SHU somehow pulls a rabbit out of the hat in the portal this spring, it is another St Bona, Temple, UMass type of game, where RU is now the more recognized program in the state and they now have something to play for in beating RU.
I would argue that even though I am not necessarily sure St John's would do it, but RU is better off playing St John's at MSG every year and splitting the ticket sales and gate 50/50, vs playing Seton Hall. Even though Seton Hall is a "traditional or is a state rival", if fans are truly interested in Pike making upgrades, it is Pat Hobbs who has ties and allegiances to SHU and now RU and is enforcing this game as being played. And unless this game is moved from December, I don't see this happening in 2023-24......once we have 2024-25 recruiting buttoned up, I'm fairly certain, this issue goes away.
Not ripping through your shitty OOC schedule isn't a scheduling problem lol.
Rutgers pounded the bottom feeders by 30...thats not normal, most schools will not do that, do you think stuff like that will happen every year, I dont. The NET finished at 40 I think which was solid but not great, winning by an average of 18 rather than 30 might make that net closer to 50 which probably was where RU was closer to last season.
That NET of 20 early on didnt really reflect who RU had beaten and played, it was driven by margin of victory.
one thing that is true about a Steve Pikiell team, it will always have 2 or possibly more bad losses on the schedule...again he will produce alot of very good wins but bad losses have been a constant as well. To take the leap to the next level, have to start shedding losing to dregs like Minnesota consecutive seasons. There really is no excuse. Its not even that they lost. Its how they lose those games. This program as the hunted is not every comfortable. See many losses at the rac this season
But it’s a constant. That’s the point I’m making.
We’re consistently dropping games OOC that we shouldn’t be.
Now you can say go out and win the game.
Or you can eliminate the problem all together by scheduling tougher competition, preventing this from keeping you out of the tournament.
It’s kind of like, if we’re all hanging out by the river and we see dogs struggling to swim in the river. Some people will continuously swim out into the river to save the dogs. I’d prefer to walk up the river and stop the dude that’s throwing the dogs into the damn river.
This is all true but I don’t see how it relates to the topic.
This is silly. We lose to bad teams when we play badly. We also beat some bad teams when we play badly. If you make the schedule harder you’ll just have correspondingly more losses as the margin for error becomes smaller.
I’m not sure it’s necessarily a Pike team thing more than it is a deficient scoring team thing. Similar to how UVA gets picked off every now and again
I don’t think that’s the point being made here. I don’t think RUT was saying we need to make changes just so we have a better blended SOS. I agree with you there that it doesn’t matter that much. Central Connecticut games are super boring, but whatever. Playing them vs. more games vs Rider types isn’t going to help us much even if it boosts SOS a bit.
I think what RUT is getting at is that as far as the part of the schedule we can control - we’re best served doing 2 things - 1) minimize our chances of losing additional games to non-contenders (i.e. we can’t avoid playing Minny but we can avoid neutral games vs. Temple types that aren’t part of a tournament with any hype. 2) on the flip side - maximize your chances of picking up a non-conference win over at least one At Large team - but balance concern of managing potential total loss count (nobody is saying we need more than 4-5 real games. Just play better teams in that small group.) Playing Gonzaga instead of Temple accomplishes both these goals.
Scared money don't make money.
You're making the assumption the team wouldn't be able to knock off a team like Gonzaga, and that's ultimately where we disagree.
I would like to improve the scheduling because it would reduce the amount of opportunities for bad losses, and it would increase the opportunities for good wins.
The reality is, this won't get changed because Pike doesn't believe in it. He likes to tinker with the lineup against lower competition early in the year, and Pike's biggest weakness (IMO) is that it takes him quite a bit of time to do so.
My question is, why does it take him so long? Does it take him individually that much time? Or does he like to provide guys a long leash to really give him a large sample size?
Yes exactly. SHU is penciled in. Most reputable teams have a rivalry game so that’s fine. But the other 3-4 games. Miami, Gonzaga, and Kansas. Think how much better that would be than Miami, Wake and Temple. The downside is a possible 0-4. We went 1-3 anyway so it doesn’t seem like much risk to me.
Do people realize conference strength is determined not by conference play but by non conference performances and schedules. Rutgers wants to reap the rewards of a strong Big 10 performance but refuses to do its part, content to ride to coattails of its conference mates
If we had gone undefeated or gotten through with 1 loss against our non-con schedule then we would’ve done our part.
If we had won all of those games our OOC SOS would have been even worse.
Sure OOC SOS is worse.
But aren't we safely in the tournament at 20-13 instead of out at 18-15?
Flipping Temple/SHU.
Figured out the secret - maybe we should purposely lose all the OOC games. Those wins for the opponent will boost the OOC SOS?
Nah you can’t really look at it that way. Think of it this way instead. We’re probably in if we beat Miami and lose the Wake game. Same exact record. Wake loss would be Q2 and they’d have been squarely in the bubble with one less loss and a road win at Rutgers. We need to pick up that one good OOC win. We gave ourselves exactly one chance to do it. With 13-14 losses you usually need to have done something out of conference to differentiate. That was the biggest problem.
To be considered one of the big boys, we should schedule OOC like MSU. They have a couple of cupcakes but they have some really good teams on their schedule. Having a HOF coach, who we have had our share of wins against, and a very competitive schedule have them in one of the top teams conversation year-in and year-out every season.
Wow, our cupcakes must have SUCKED, haha. We had UCLA, Texas, Virginia and Missouri all on neutral floors.
Thread won't be complete until you make one post for every P5 team any other P5 team plays OOC, IMO.
Get to work, bitch.
Get to work, bitch.
Everyone can see the OOC schedule is weak by just looking at the NC SOS, you don't need to list every other team's schedule.
This thread is sort of like trying to demonstrate that RU football had a bad offense by going team by team and posting things like "Ohio State scored 56 points against Indiana" and getting madder and madder with each individual post.
This thread is sort of like trying to demonstrate that RU football had a bad offense by going team by team and posting things like "Ohio State scored 56 points against Indiana" and getting madder and madder with each individual post.
Hmm, you'd think he'd pay attention after having the national selection committee basically call our ooc schedule an embarrassment
