I suggest that Barchi and Herman meet with Christie and Sweeney to explain this crisis to them. Have Central Administration generate financial reports w/pie charts attached illustrating exactly where the problem is and request additional appropriations so Big 10 money can be used for what it was intended for which is athletics.
BTN Tonight : Doomsday Scenario
- Thread starter BOGDANOVICH
- Start date
But we're NOT 2-1. We LOST to a BAD Wazzou team and got thumped by a BAD Penn State team. I think what you're missing here, re: injuries, is that we're seriously lacking QUALITY DEPTH at many spots, unfortunately, which is a product of 3 sub-par years of recruiting.
Now, I agree, it's not "doomsday," quite yet, BUT if we don't make a move to get rid of Flood, by early December, we might not see a bowl game for a long, long time again.
Might as well Dave. We're in the midst of a bad season AND we even had some arrests. If we don't shut it down then we NEEEED to hire Schiano or else the school itself will just fall into a whole in the ground caused by the weight of the entire sky collapsing on New Brunswick. And Im not exaggerating. Things are this terrible.
Tell that to Pitt, Cuse and BC. They are trying to play .500 ball for the last 6-9 years. I think BC has turned the corner but don't know about Pitt. Cuse has at least 5 more years to turn it around.
We arent going to see a bowl game for a few years anyway. You dont recruit at the bottom of the BCS for three years and become a bowl team. Flood or not. If we dont fire Flood this year, then next year, and we put the reversal off for another year.
The point is - doomsday is being UConn or Temple - where the best you can hope for is mid-level bowls IF you happen to hire the right coach. And once hes good hes gone to a better team. That is doomsday. This is just what happens when you make a bad coaching hire. Even the Alabamas of the world go through this on occasion. We just need to get our feet under us, hire a better coach, and move on.
I look at nothing more than what I see on the field and the lack of improvement on the whole of veteran players. I look at our god awful schemes and what we're trying to do and it makes me sick.
I see the mindset of punting and kicking field goals that undermines any thought of winning. I see a two deep before arrests and injuries that can't compete...IMO
I don't care about all that stuff you speak of, it's all useless with an incompetent staff
we need someone who is a strong ,vocal , and a respected leader who will take chances and can influence our politicians and change the perception of RU athletics--I'm not sure Hermann qualifies--she is liked by barchi but she seems to have no gravitas or power--if the status quo is what we need she may be fine-but we know that's not the case--say all you want about the board, the state government, barchi but it seems no one's going out on the limb to change their direction and without the press behind her she will continue to be a puppet for barchi --criticize the schiano/pernetti regime but schiano basically got what he wanted for the football team
Yes it does matter where the money comes from. If the school continues it's life long history of doing things on the cheap then football and basketball have hit their apex for good.
Someone made an excellent point. Would UConn squander away the opportunity of succeeding in the Big Ten?? I'll answer for you so you don't have to spin it any further. Absolutely NOT!
Well see then we're talking about 2 different things. I'm not talking about the staff at all in the least. I'm talking about the program/department as a whole. Staffs come and go whether good or bad. Hire a good one sometimes they go, sometimes you keep them. Hire a bad one and move on to the next. My points have nothing to do with Flood or his capability, it's general points about the direction of the athletic department as a whole.
Have a good suggestion for you. Go root for UConn since they have their act together.
No I don't think it does matter where it comes from. It matters that it comes at all and coming from private resources is all the better. UConn probably gets privately funded more than we do but I agree they also get more state support than we do as well. I'm not spinning anything I state facts of what's happening and happened. All the things I cite have happened and they are positive. It may not be as fast or as much as you'd like but it's the right direction and without any B10 money.
The more that we can do privately the better I feel. We still got a long way to go though. That's how it's done at most schools with help from the athletic department, whether it's facilities or coaching salaries or what not.
Rutgers doesn't and can't just move on from bad hires and non competitive teams.
IT takes 4 good recruiting classes to build depth in an elite P 5 league.
We are years away from being competitive against real teams.
What I will agree with you on is IF we somehow convinced a committed head coach and he could convince a committed top flight staff to come with him, we have a chance, that's as optimistic as I can be.
Of course private and creative funding needs to be involved no matter who the coach is. This is the norm around the country.
Schiano's $2M salary when he was here was partly funded through the Nelligan deal (and there was and is nothing wrong with that).
Schiano's $2M salary when he was here was partly funded through the Nelligan deal (and there was and is nothing wrong with that).
Who cares what some commentator on BTN has to say about anything. This is not a Temple situation, we are not being voted out of the conference. At some point down the road we will get our act together, whether it is next year, 5 years, 10 years, or 20 years from now. Look at Northwestern from the 70s to the early 90s, you couldn't have a more pitiful program, but they found the right coach and in 1995 they turned it all the way around and went to the Rose Bowl. I understand this is a sports board and panic is the norm, but in the long run we will be just fine. Maybe you will not get to see Rutgers win in your lifetime, but your children and/or grandchildren might, so relax and enjoy the B1G ride.
There usually is going to be a transition period after a bad hire, hard to get away from it whether it's RU or anyone else. The better the next hire the quicker it may happen but still usually some transition.
I have a suggestion....but I don't want to get banned!!
Why must we accept losing seasons or mediocrity?? I support this team with my wallet, time, heart and soul! Why is it wrong to want the people that are in charge to have the same desires?? Is that wrong? Barchi has no pride in sports. He has said publically that its a great "activity". It's been embarrassing how this school has done nothing leading into joining the Big Ten. You do realize Rutgers is in the Big Ten...right? Maybe it's time they take advantage of the opportunity instead of ignoring it.
Clowns like you make me sick!
Why bring rationality to a thread like this? Some of these posters are on a roll. Why not go with the flow of we're doomed for eternity?
Yes and no. Yes your post is correct if (and trust me it's a big if) donors step up with the cash, if they do not then you're banking on Barchi to reprioritize his mission here at Rutgers and frankly that's not happening. Remember that he has strict orders from Christie to NOT approach Senate president S. Sweeney and Democrats for additional money. So, if the football program suffers and crumbles under his watch he could care less.
This is a reflection of an over-reaction. Everyone (I think) understands that Schiano did not leave a upper level B1G Ten roster by anyone's imagination and is taking a leap of assuming that conference affiliation automatically closes the borders of NJ and NY recruiting away from Meyer, Michigan, Michigan State and Penn State, Notre Dame and the SEC schools paying top dollar for recruits.....yes, I said top dollar for recruits.
We are in a state of denial in thinking RU's current roster assembled with Schiano, one that was built on speed and being undersized and one that never handled a healthy Cincinnati, West Virginia and struggled with Pitt and Wanny & Edsell and UConn most years, was something that was built......what exactly are we comparing apples to apples too???
Why are we assuming Schiano doesn't struggle to beat Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan State, Wisconsin and Nebraska in games and certainly in recruiting?? That's what we've asked Flood to do, prior to knowing the B1G was finalized (although it was pretty close to happening at the time Schiano left).
This program was built to an average level, with a definite home field advantage that Schiano helped build with the fan base and winning games by scheduling down and avoiding BCS opponents at almost all costs. This is what we are looking to pay north of 2.0M for and expect him to hire assistants that are going to challenge Schiano's methods of how a good offensive coordinator wants to run an offense, while he takes over the Defense.
It reads stop gap 2.0, which many realize financially what we were required to do with Flood. We supported Flood because that is the constraints RU was under financially, while some fans are under an illusion that because fans realize Pernetti's decision was essentially financial, it's being spun as something else.
The first 2 years of the B1G was crucial IMO, to the opinion of the local fan that is not a RU football fan....that goes for HS coaches, parents, players etc. Schiano is not going to rebuild that image, despite fans believing he will, because it's a different conference against even better coaches than what we were up against in the Big East. I don't think anything was built as much as the imagination of what people perceive or want to see.
Just my opinion as we grow into the B1G, these games are going to force RU to grow into the conference and look to compete. It's pressure, but it's a good pressure to have, something RU avoided at all costs in prior years. Fortunately it's here now and will help grow RU as a school, sports programs and everything else in-between.
We are in a state of denial in thinking RU's current roster assembled with Schiano, one that was built on speed and being undersized and one that never handled a healthy Cincinnati, West Virginia and struggled with Pitt and Wanny & Edsell and UConn most years, was something that was built......what exactly are we comparing apples to apples too???
Why are we assuming Schiano doesn't struggle to beat Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan State, Wisconsin and Nebraska in games and certainly in recruiting?? That's what we've asked Flood to do, prior to knowing the B1G was finalized (although it was pretty close to happening at the time Schiano left).
This program was built to an average level, with a definite home field advantage that Schiano helped build with the fan base and winning games by scheduling down and avoiding BCS opponents at almost all costs. This is what we are looking to pay north of 2.0M for and expect him to hire assistants that are going to challenge Schiano's methods of how a good offensive coordinator wants to run an offense, while he takes over the Defense.
It reads stop gap 2.0, which many realize financially what we were required to do with Flood. We supported Flood because that is the constraints RU was under financially, while some fans are under an illusion that because fans realize Pernetti's decision was essentially financial, it's being spun as something else.
The first 2 years of the B1G was crucial IMO, to the opinion of the local fan that is not a RU football fan....that goes for HS coaches, parents, players etc. Schiano is not going to rebuild that image, despite fans believing he will, because it's a different conference against even better coaches than what we were up against in the Big East. I don't think anything was built as much as the imagination of what people perceive or want to see.
Just my opinion as we grow into the B1G, these games are going to force RU to grow into the conference and look to compete. It's pressure, but it's a good pressure to have, something RU avoided at all costs in prior years. Fortunately it's here now and will help grow RU as a school, sports programs and everything else in-between.
Gee, thanks for the lift ...problem is I want to compete with MSU in two weeks[winking] and I didn't feel like waiting.:D
You put a whole lot of bull crap in your posts. You stated a reference to UConn who is not in our league, doesn't play Rutgers anymore and has nothing to do with our school or our issues whatsoever. Why reference UConn? Why not reference 60 or so schools that are in the FBS but not in a P5 conference?
Gotta love this, complete oblivion as to how difficult it is to win and maintain competiveness.
Umm Really? I'd respond but it's obvious you don't the mental capacity to understand!
Let me say this, I have no issue with your opinions or how vehemently you express them. I don't agree with them at times but it's your right. I'm trying to talk you and others down with what I think is some concrete progress, even if you want to say it's slight. But considering our history it's nonetheless positive.
I don't like losing seasons/mediocrity but to me that's about identifying the right people and that is something that is hard to do whether your budget is Texas or RU. That's up to the AD. From the parameters I've given and citing what other schools have paid on first contracts to good coaches, I think our budget is adequate. We've seen some signs of improvement like I've stated.
Pretty much everyone on this board is a good fan as far I'm concerned, otherwise you wouldn't even be "wasting" so much time here just talking RU sports and whatnot. Doesn't matter if I agree with them or not. I'll try to rationally/calmly debate stuff but you know fans are going to react like fans, same everywhere else we're no different.
I agree with most of your post but clowns like RURM85 care as much about winning as Barchi does.
We have too many on here that are happy and defend that status quo and call people that want to see winning teams "negative"
Tired of the crap that some spew on here. Support the team and demand better!
As a fan, first we have to define winning and competitiveness, before deciding whether Rutgers is successful or not. Some of us would say last year, we won (won more games than lost and made a bowl for the 3rd straight year), thus, competitiveness was achieved. Others will only look to the blow-outs and say we were not competitive and did not win.
As for the future, none of us can predict. Worst case is if we stink this year and next year and even the year after that, in time business will be affected, administration leads will change and we'll see a new coaching staff with optimism about what the future will bring, re-building and changing.
Yes, some of the posters are over-reacting here and believe we'll lose all our games for many years to come, go back to Shea era performance (losing to FCS schools), get kicked out of the B1G due to such losing, revert back to playing Patriot League teams and all the nonsense that goes with either being miserable, attempting to attract sensationalism on a message board or being a fan of another program and on this board for kicks and jollies.
Said by the clown that is on the board to continuously throw dirt at the Rutgers program and bring attention to himself.
Thank you for quickly proving my point!!
Wanting a winning program, wanting a administration to support Athletics like most Big Ten schools is throwing dirt. Gotcha.
I think everyone needs to take a deep breath, relax and take a step back for just a moment. There's a great deal of frustration on this board and I can understand why. We know what needs to happen to build a winning program, but we also know this administration is not going to support what it takes to build a winning program and there lies the frustration. Boycott the games and the program will crumble faster than you think, attend the games and you are endorsing the status quo. Yes it sucks when everyone is not on the same page.
We know that?
How?
Prey tell, what would an administration intent on winning have done?
Schiano didn't have the opportunity to recruit to a B1G school. You don't know if Schiano would have learned from his mistakes and made adjustments. You don't know how he would have utilized the extra $ that would eventually flow from the B1G.
Honestly, the worst case scenario happened last year, not this year. Flood going 8-5, comeback win over Maryland and the convincing win over North Carolina in the bowl game meant he was going to stick around. Recruiting fell off during Flood's tenure and we scheduled down to guarantee a bowl game.
It would be hard to fire someone who has a winning record (because most Rutgers coaches since Burns did not). So now, we have a coach that the administration won't release, that pretty much isn't wanted, but can't be fired. He would have been fine if we had stayed in the American, but since we're playing tOSU, PSU, Michigan State et. al. every year, he is not up to the task.
The wheels haven't fallen off -- you can make the right hire and turn the decline around. How confident is anyone in Julie to make that hire?
The school administration bows to pressure in every direction so they have no vision or have no backbone (not sure what it is). No help in that direction.
So we continue on a gradual descent. Flood may win some games he shouldn't, though I think we're looking at 4-8 this year.
It would be hard to fire someone who has a winning record (because most Rutgers coaches since Burns did not). So now, we have a coach that the administration won't release, that pretty much isn't wanted, but can't be fired. He would have been fine if we had stayed in the American, but since we're playing tOSU, PSU, Michigan State et. al. every year, he is not up to the task.
The wheels haven't fallen off -- you can make the right hire and turn the decline around. How confident is anyone in Julie to make that hire?
The school administration bows to pressure in every direction so they have no vision or have no backbone (not sure what it is). No help in that direction.
So we continue on a gradual descent. Flood may win some games he shouldn't, though I think we're looking at 4-8 this year.
Some of us in our 60s and up might not have enough years left to wait for the total rebuild.....no your not over reacting. I'm 63 until Nov and many i came up with are already gone....to us RU FB is a passion that finally is in a position we never thought we'd never see but letting it slip through their fingers.
we fired a great coach (Frank Burns) because we wanted to go "Big Time" which simply meant stepping up the schedule at that time . Now we make a giant leap into the Big 10 with hundreds of millions on the come and we want to keep Frank Burns (the MASH version)...
My problem is the tailgates and barbeques don't interest me, only the excitement of competing and winning championships appeals to me. From Burns to Shea I always had the dream if we just tried and commited to winning we'd be great.
Under GS it seemed the commitment was there even if the results were not, at least I got the sense we were trying and that was good enough for me.
I don't have it in me to just go and watch, I need to feel like there's something special brewing,
Under GS it seemed the commitment was there even if the results were not, at least I got the sense we were trying and that was good enough for me.
I don't have it in me to just go and watch, I need to feel like there's something special brewing,
Don't know if anyone's noticed, but for the 1st time in God knows how long time we're back in ESPN's infamous "Bottom 10", coming in at #8.
Yup, there's absolutely nothing Shea-like about what's presently going on with the football program. -How could the thought have ever crossed my mind?
Yup, there's absolutely nothing Shea-like about what's presently going on with the football program. -How could the thought have ever crossed my mind?
I've missed < 10 games in the 37 years since I was a frosh in 1977. Maybe 5 or 6.
I can't think of sitting in that stadium vs. Ohio State right now.
This is the divide. Some of us have seen the writing on the wall for a while now, while others hoped to see Flood grow into the position.
I would rather bite the bullet before the program reaches the level of total tear-down. Flood's recruiting classes start rosy, but collapsed by signing day; the S&C (my pet peeve) went down; technique went out the window for young players, etc.
When looking at the overall health of the program, "Ws & Ls" are a lagging metric; by the time you hit a low period on the scoreboard, you've got 3 classes rising behind with the same skill level. Scheme can overcome some recruiting shortfalls, but I don't think anyone will confuse Flood with being a tactician.
This latest row of events is an excuse to move on, and I think the AD should start planning her short list.
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