I'd like to think a James Beatty type is available. Average defender, average shooter, not quick enough to beat people off the dribble, but won't hurt you. It would put the onus on others to make plays which would be a bit scary.
Corey Sanders - Sacramento Kings pre-Draft workout
- Thread starter RU-Choppin-Ohio
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I'd like to think a James Beatty type is available. Average defender, average shooter, not quick enough to beat people off the dribble, but won't hurt you. It would put the onus on others to make plays which would be a bit scary.
I'm not interested in bashing Corey as he has been a great representative of student athletes at RU, wears his RU gear with pride and has provided us with a lot of memorable moments. Corey is a phenomenal basketball player who I hope selfishly stays at RU for 2 more years, develops into a top talent and makes it into the league without question.
With that said, i'm curious what makes you say his style of play is "definitely suited for the NBA"? The things the NBA values most (ball movement, shooting, ball handling & size) are all things that this board has criticized Corey for not having as his strong suit...
You can't teach his quickness with the ball in his hands and he is very good in transition. I'd like to think the spacing in the NBA is a bit better. Obviously a must to EVER wear a NBA uniform is all the things you mention. If he were 3 inches taller he definitely would at least look the part of a NBA plater from a raw ability standpoint
He is one of the highest level athletes in college sports. I would put Sanders up there with the top twenty most athletic players in D1 basketball. Athleticism is the first pre requisite you need. He has it. With people around him, he can drive and dish at a decent level. He can also defend at a average to high level.
Agree that he is supremely athletic. However, in the league 85% of guys are just as athletic haha. Additionally, Corey made huge strides on defense (and the people on this board who claim he wasn't our best defender last year clearly didn't watch the games) however, being 6'1 his ability to switch and guard pick and rolls on the length of players in the league right now would be limited.
With that said, I do think Corey can develop into one of our best defenders of all time if he sticks around for a couple more years. Turning his defense into offense should come as the talent around him becomes better and better.
In the end this is Corey's decision to make. I wish him the best in whatever he decides. I know Quincy thinks he should have returned for his last year but these kids want to make money playing basketball. I would like to see him return but I want him to be happy with what he wants to do. He gave us some very good memories. It is his life. Best of luck to Corey. If he decides to leave I think Coach Pikiell and the staff will find someone to fill the spot between now and September. That someone might not be as good as Corey but our staff is constantly working for future improvement.
If Sanders leaves, the team will lack a go to scorer and have a net loss of approximately 30 points per game without Sanders,Johnson and Gettys. On a team that had great difficulty scoring 60 points per game against B1G competition,Sanders departure would make it very difficult to prevent another losing season.The notion that Rutgers at this late date will be able to bring in a double digit scorer as a replacement is wishful thinking.
The bottom line is that 2017 can't be a throw away season because it would make 2018 recruiting even more difficult for Pikiell.
The bottom line is that 2017 can't be a throw away season because it would make 2018 recruiting even more difficult for Pikiell.
Would love to see the top 30 list. Have a feeling the guys at 21-30 rated below Sanders would be comical.
There is no impact on 2018 recruiting which started in October of 2016 and goes through the end of this year and into next spring....most of the recruiting (not all is finalized before the season even starts.....there is no way to determine that it would negatively impact things, because there would be more potential playing time for the 2018-19 recruits being targeted.
The winning season goal is very real, but it's not as important as continuing to recruit well this spring and summer and there are more than enough shot attempts to distribute with the remaining guards and that includes whatever player ultimately might replace Sanders (if he departs this year or after next year).
RU on paper has 3 players to account for as departing after this season in Freeman, Williams and Sa.....dependent on Sanders that would be 4 after next year, even if he stayed through this season....the wild card is whether Doorson's health allows him to truly be an impact player after this season, which is where Myles Johnson's commitment immediately softens the departure of Diallo. Doorson could be a 5th year player at RU, at another school, time will tell on where his foot and health will be....if he was not here beyond next year, that would make 5 kids we have to account for on the roster.
If RU breaks .500 this season with Sanders, then the pressure to go to another level would be there, vs the allure of Professional basketball overseas or in the NBA, if he had an All B1G caliber season.
In either event, there is no impact on 2018 or 2019 recruiting based on the win-loss record for this year, everyone on the recruiting trail has been completely aware that the roster was top heavy and needed to be reworked to try and reset things....RU already proved itself that the staff can coach and max out the ability of a limited roster last year and would not be penalized at all on the recruiting trail because of it.....
This is drastically different from football, where Ash and the staff bottomed out with the existing talent and some ugly games has essentially stalled recruiting because of it....since the bulk of 2018 recruiting would be done before the basketball season is halfway over, those kids would be signed by the fall signing period and committed to RU....
Someone can argue that 2019-2020 recruiting would be impacted if RU had another losing season, but the folks being recruited are all aware of the hurdles RU has and there are positives everywhere being developed with the staff, the facilities on the way and everything is trending upward across the board.....this departure can be viewed similarly to an injury that keeps a player out of the lineup for the majority of the season....
Sanders would have earned my support regardless of which way this goes for RU (he committed to RU at a time when there really wasn't much to pitch, which is much different than where RU right now)...... I definitely want Sanders to stick around and get better at RU, but not going to be anti-Corey Sanders or start micromanaging his game on why it's not NBA ready, because I want him to stay and perform at RU....when you have talented players and they do well at the next level, it does nothing but help your cause in recruiting and the program in general.....
Offensive efficiency is team scoring divided by possessions. To me a pure stat for analyzing offense.
last year 231st 1.014 points scored per possession
'15-'16 303rd .963 points per possession
'14-'15 279th .965
'13-'14 148th 1.058
Can we get that much worse without him? A Beatty type who distributes the ball to offensively challenged others and can knock down a perimeter shot might not be more than a step backwards.
I am with you. He needs more work in his game for the next level. He better be careful. If he leaves, goes to D League/Europe, and it doesn't work out, he might be flipping burgers somewhere sooner than later.
I am about done with this drama.
As I've mentioned, he's always struck me as a kid looking for some reason, any reason, to leave. This invitation, and not even how it turns out, could very well be enough for him. I expect him to leave. That said, what do I know. I'm just a guy on a message board.
For those who thought he was not our best player, or even a good player, this ends that. Now, it likely won't end the ludicrous arguing about it. But the argument has already been decided.
For those who thought he was not our best player, or even a good player, this ends that. Now, it likely won't end the ludicrous arguing about it. But the argument has already been decided.
One of the posts above mentioned a $75k salary for D-League. If this is true Sanders should pass and return to RU, D-League will be there next year too.
Now making $250k or more would be a different story.
Now making $250k or more would be a different story.
If he leaves next season will be a disaster record-wise along the lines of the worst of Jordan, Hill and Littlepage.
It'll be a well-coached disaster but a disaster nonetheless.
I like Hawk, but he's kidding himself if he doesn't think this is a 7 to 9 win team without Sanders, Nigel and CJ.
It'll be a well-coached disaster but a disaster nonetheless.
I like Hawk, but he's kidding himself if he doesn't think this is a 7 to 9 win team without Sanders, Nigel and CJ.
You are underrating defense and effort. Hopefully you are also underrating the probability that an offseason under Pikiell make our players better.
Without Sanders 1 surprise keeps us the same and 2 surprises makes us better.
Surprise would be a player new to the program being better than expected OR a current player making a big jump. Also add the prospects of the open spot getting a player for '16-'17.
I forgot why the thought of Geno Thorpe wasn't appetizing, but if you lose Sanders on Wednesday replacing him with Thorpe ON PAPER doesn't look like much of a loss. emphasis op paper.
For a College kid with no money, 75K to a 21 year old seems like 250K to them, plus a shot at their dream of NBA and no classes to attend. Most kids would jump at the 75K unfortunately
Folks -
Wake me up when Sanders can effectively make moves to his left.
Bad news for him if he leaves. He is not ready, period!
An injury would turn 75K to 0K. Each year that gets added to his age also negatively impacts either him being a prospect OR ultimately gets closer to his peak age.
I Just read there are three tiers of salaries: $13k;$19k; and $24k. Your money is made when and if you get a call up to the NBA
You seem to be doing the opposite and overvaluing defense and effort. Our defense and effort was fine for the most part last year but we had no scoring most of the time. You cant expect losing 50% of your offense to be made up with more effort and defense. Do you really think we are going to start winning games 40-38? If Sanders leaves we easily have the worst back court in the B1G. Thorpe would be great otherwise we have no one that other teams would fear.
CJ is replaced by Myles Johnson and potentially another Big....
Nigel is replaced by Geo Baker
Corey is not someone you immediately replace, but my guess (a pretty good one almost all the time) is that you have an available spot on a B1G roster and you become immediately more attractive to some recruits....it doesn't take an all conference player to make up the difference.
On FT shooting alone, an 80% FT shooter that is a normal 8PPG player, can get to 12PPG if that person gets to the FT and converts FT's.....Sanders PPG average if he's a better FT shooter is probably 4 to 5 point per game better if his FT shooting was around 75% to 80% vs hovering below 60%....
There are so many ways to add scoring without having to do significantly more offensively....the sets and game plans designed put RU in games, they didn't belong in some nights and FT shooting more than anything derailed what could have been an even better season.
I have no idea how the team will shoot next year from the line, but if Baker is at least respectable (70% or better), there is no dropoff vs what Nigel Johnson provided offensively....Baker is a better shooter, more athletic and longer armed defender....Nigel was a better on the ball-defender, but it's not as if Baker can't learn how to defend.
The kid McIntosh from Northwestern is a step slower offensively and two steps slower defensively vs Sanders....McIntosh however understands the game, angles, how to create space to shoot and draws contact to make FT's, something that can be added to the game of Sanders.
RU is not dropping below 10 wins if Sanders leaves....there will be comparable replacement if that happens and everyone on the roster has a chance to step their games up and score....
Alan Iverson and other guards went their Entire Careers going exclusively to their Right ( Google it) . Ginobi goes left all the time. If you are super quick or crafty like Ginobi, you can get away with it. I'm not comparing Sanders' overall talent level of these two....but, Sanders is probably only a few steps slower than Iverson. When Sanders and Nigel Johnson did the speed fast, they both graded out as two of the fastest ever in that test.
AND....Sanders has made moves to his left. You can google that as well to watch some highlights.
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Sanders is an asset offensively in the 1st 10 seconds of the shot clock and the last 5 seconds of it. Tough to imagine any transition offense without him. The current players would have to change their thought process of what an acceptable shot is. A 24 foot open shot from Issa would have to be shot. A 17 foot shot from Freeman has to be taken. Mike Williams would take, make and miss a lot more perimeter shots.
I think we would be surprised at some of our players offensive capabilities if their roles were increased.
Yes that is correct, but a lot may be because teammates relax knowing that when they give the ball up, that they might not have that much involvement in the play again OR that you cannot have ball movement inside of 12 seconds on the shot clock....
It takes a lot of work to trust and make better passes and the staff reduced the turnovers dramatically, by reducing the offensive flow (passes) and restricted it to Sanders or Nigel off the bounce to create and perhaps find a shooter....if not, crash the offensive glass and get a putback.
In a normal flow, you might have a few better passers but the team lacks good passers much more than anything. In the article after Myles Johnson committed, the biggest plus of his game is his ability to make the simple pass....if anything Gettys did well, it was making a pass and taking an available 12-15 footer when it presented itself.
If you increase the roles of players and you increase their ball handling responsibilities to duplicate screen and rolls, then yes, RU would struggle....if you had better passers (like those being recruited for 2018 and beyond), you are not as reliant on screen or pick and roll.....The things RU tried in November and December (dribble handoffs to create switching on defense), were eliminated in February/March.....the staff adjusts to what can be done, vs what cannot.
If you want to play in the NBA you have to be an elite college player in at least 2 or 3 of those qualities. Corey is an athletic freak, but he has a lot to work on before he can consider himself an NBA prospect, especially at PG.
Where would Corey develop more, at Rutgers or in the D league? That's the real question he has to answer himself. It sure as hell has very little to do with getting a college degree. Whether he leaves now or next year, I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying he never finishes school. Most kids have 5 years on scholarship to get the degree but when they opt to leave early, that's more or less saying they have graduated in their minds.
Getting drafted gets you the bigger money and the initial exposure of being drafted by an NBA team. Quincy did very little in the NBA but went on to make $2 million a year in china. He was drafted in the first round. The question for Corey is does one more year at Rutgers translate into getting drafted or will he be in the same boat next year. If he wants to try it again; it also means doing the academics for another year. It's probably the right move to come back because the D league or Europe will still be there either way. It's just waiting another year and grinding it out.
My advice would be come back to Rutgers and the same option will be there next year. You will know if you can get drafted after 3 years and if not, then go to the D league.
The only problem is I'm not the one deciding. Good luck to Corey whatever decision he makes? I hope he comes back to Rutgers!
Getting drafted gets you the bigger money and the initial exposure of being drafted by an NBA team. Quincy did very little in the NBA but went on to make $2 million a year in china. He was drafted in the first round. The question for Corey is does one more year at Rutgers translate into getting drafted or will he be in the same boat next year. If he wants to try it again; it also means doing the academics for another year. It's probably the right move to come back because the D league or Europe will still be there either way. It's just waiting another year and grinding it out.
My advice would be come back to Rutgers and the same option will be there next year. You will know if you can get drafted after 3 years and if not, then go to the D league.
The only problem is I'm not the one deciding. Good luck to Corey whatever decision he makes? I hope he comes back to Rutgers!
Playing B1G level basketball as the team's best player seems like the way to go for stronger development.
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