yes because CNN isnt lying to you as well everyday and nice personal attack on another poster here
COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...
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yes because CNN isnt lying to you as well everyday and nice personal attack on another poster here
I have to admit I'm not always in this thread but I did see the post where he said he was having fun which I didn't find cool and he did get called out for it and thereafter (from what I've seen) he's stopped, but sometimes the pot you stirred is the pot your stuck with so I get that too. :)
+1
This thread has had a very closed minded focus for a long time.
there is no one set way of thinking about this pandemic..never was...varying opinions from all kinds of people, medical professionals included, yet when someone here deviates from the standard cnn or nytimes talking point its all of a sudden a conspiracy...which we know from the past 3 years look who was running the conspiracy
so its important for all views to be heard because no one here has been right on everything and the news on both sides is political and not about saving lives, that passed during the first couple of weeks
Then start a new one. You love trolling as much as the next guy, so don’t cry about one troll when there are a hundred times more posts with good info in this thread.
I agree with your opinion that HCQ gets a bad rep in the media for political reasons, I agree we need to start reopening safely, but others may disagree about HCQ or how we should reopen. That’s ok.
I guess some people get stuck on a mindset and refuse to think in any other way. New information is a threat. Whether it is showing they are wrong or some personal agenda (likely political)? Not sure. But something is up with many of the posters in this thread, which are only a handful of folks left.
They created their own echo chamber.
So why can't we all have constructive dialogue without personal attacks and name calling?
See below quote from @RU-05, which is correct.
Your "opinion" is whatever floats out of your ass. Everyone else on this thread is sifting through data and doing analysis. You're just running your mouth because you think this is playtime at the nursery school.
A vast majority of dialogue in this thread has been constructive without personal attacks and name-calling.
This thread is for factual information, not meaningless articles on tiny petitions or misleading information.
Interesting data. Corona is less harmful on those 25 and under than the flu (not surprising conclusion, but good to see the data):
https://freopp.org/estimating-the-r...vs-influenza-or-pneumonia-by-age-630aea3ae5a9
Combine this with my previous post:
The Case for Reopening Schools
Lots of other countries have decided that it's time to take this step. Why is the US holding back?
https://www.wired.com/story/the-case-for-reopening-schools/
This gives us a clear story on reopening school fully this summer (in the south) or in fall (NE). Perhaps with some restrictions, but not many.
https://freopp.org/estimating-the-r...vs-influenza-or-pneumonia-by-age-630aea3ae5a9
Combine this with my previous post:
The Case for Reopening Schools
Lots of other countries have decided that it's time to take this step. Why is the US holding back?
https://www.wired.com/story/the-case-for-reopening-schools/
This gives us a clear story on reopening school fully this summer (in the south) or in fall (NE). Perhaps with some restrictions, but not many.
Not recently. I look forward to you calling out those that are crossing this line of civility. Thank you.
He confounded two separate issues with the guidance on masks. The decision on use of masks and the need for ample supplies for our healthcare workers are two separate issues. The guidance could have been more honest which could have further reduced the spread. I think he chose poorly.
That decision cost people their lives. How many I cannot say but it surely had an impact on transmission rates having Americans not wearing masks for a month. Just like telling at risk patients to stay home without any guidance until they are severely ill cost people their lives. How about some guidance like the Virginia Hospital protocol that suggests Vitamin D3, Zinc, Quercetin, etc to aid the bodies defenses? Just like not providing LTC workers with proper PPE which has cost many lives. This is what happens when you choose poorly.
Numbers like to suggest that SK's success is due to testing and contact tracing. I believe those approaches greatly aided SK, but they also chose very wisely on a number of other issues including masks, protecting at risk pops, early treatments, etc. We were turning away people for testing at the beginning because they had no travel to China or contact with those who did. That was a poor choice as well as most of our spread came through Europe.
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Typically, those in the first few days of symptoms had not been seeking medical care as physicians could not administer a CV-19 test. They were being told to stay home, manage your symptoms and avoid the hospital unless it was necessary. With the increase in available testing, it seems those who are symptomatic are getting tested earlier and thus identifying them in the earlier phases. This is where your HCQ may be beneficial. Otherwise asymptomatic patients are finding out they may have had Covid at an earlier date which has caused significant damage to the heart muscle, unbeknownst to them until they develop shortness of breath or an arrhythmia. That and what we are seeing is patients arriving with ST elevation myocardial infarctions who happen to test positive for CV-19. Did CV cause the MI or is it just a coincidence? There certainly appears to be some endothelial involvement as evidenced by the increase in strokes, pulmonary emboli, arterial clot formation and myocardial infarctions in these CV-19 patients.
1)In this post you are both criticizing Fauci for conflating an issue with the presumed intent of saving PPE for health care workers, but also criticizing health care for not having enough PPE.He confounded two separate issues with the guidance on masks. The decision on use of masks and the need for ample supplies for our healthcare workers are two separate issues. The guidance could have been more honest which could have further reduced the spread. I think he chose poorly.
That decision cost people their lives. How many I cannot say but it surely had an impact on transmission rates having Americans not wearing masks for a month. Just like telling at risk patients to stay home without any guidance until they are severely ill cost people their lives. How about some guidance like the Virginia Hospital protocol that suggests Vitamin D3, Zinc, Quercetin, etc to aid the bodies defenses? Just like not providing LTC workers with proper PPE which has cost many lives. This is what happens when you choose poorly.
Numbers like to suggest that SK's success is due to testing and contact tracing. I believe those approaches greatly aided SK, but they also chose very wisely on a number of other issues including masks, protecting at risk pops, early treatments, etc. We were turning away people for testing at the beginning because they had no travel to China or contact with those who did. That was a poor choice as well as most of our spread came through Europe.
I think this points to to the difficult situation with which we were faced.
2)Also note that Fauci said in the video that masks are needed in the heat of a pandemic. At that time, there was really one metro area that was truly in the heat of the pandemic. Did he know NYC metro was that hot at the time of that? I don't know.
But the general sentiment that people did not need to wear masks was probably correct for 90% of the countries population. So how incorrect was he? He was to some extent, but not to a larger extent.
I think this also aligns with Trump's messaging, which T2K has argued, as you have as well to an extent, that we are not targeting the issue, we are throwing a huge blanket over this thing, but there are clear hot spots, NYC metro, some other metro's, as well as LTC's, and conversely large swaths of the country where the issue is not nearly as bad.
3)I agree there is more to SK's handling of the situation then just testing(I'm a bit skeptical of it actually given how inaccurate tests are now let alone at the beginning of this, but maybe their tests are that much better?) I for one think masks are huge in how well they have been able to limit the spread there.
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I did not criticize HC for lack of PPE. I criticized the decision to lower prioritize LTC workers. When they prioritized PPE they had LTC workers at a lower priority. Those workers deal with the most vulnerable to CV19 and that has been known since day 1. They also knew that their is asymptomatic transmission. What did they think would happen at LTCs? That choice is one of the main reasons why more than half of our deaths in NJ have been at LTCs. It was a poor choice to not give equal priority to those facilities. The result is many deaths at LTCs that could have been avoided.
Information you agree on, anything you disagree on doesn't belong, I get it now.
There was an interview with a doctor that I was going to share but decided against it. The reason I was going to share was not because of his views on early HCQ treatment or the re-opening the economy. The reason I was going to share it was he spent much of the video discussing how he has received death threats, people calling the medical board and saying his license should be revoked. The whole media driven silencing of voices that do not go along with the group think narrative being created is sad and scary. There should be freedom in this country to express opinions on all sides of an issue and they should be intelligently discussed to hopefully achieve working solutions. That is no longer the case here in America. That is exactly what has happened right here in this thread. We have become devoid of critical thinking and openness to discuss issues and learn from all sides. Not allowed in a brainwashed/group think society. Makes me ashamed of our citizens that we have no tolerance for those who do not think as we do.
I am more than willing to openly discuss issues with people who hold opposing views. I learn from them way more than they know. Unfortunately, most people today cannot do it because they operate under a belief system that won't allow careful consideration of other/opposing viewpoints. It is very evident throughout this thread.
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That’s how the industry works.
I get to see all levels “up close and personal” as a semi-outsider with regard to stuff like this and will say India’s caste system has got nothing on them.
Could we have had one without the other?
And yes LTC workers without proper PPE put patients at risk.
But were we going to have hospital workers, those who were dealing with the most infectious, not have proper PPE? We already know nurses, doctors and other hospital workers were reusing their PPE because of a lack of supply. Even in hindsight I don't think it was wrong to make them the highest priority.
And then you come full circle to the Fauci video. Hospitals didn't have enough PPE. LTC didn't have enough PPE. So was he wrong for saying the general public should not be wearing PPE? Especially when 90% of the country really didn't need it?
The problem was an overall lack of PPE that led to decisions which one way or another were going to have negative outcomes.
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Yes, he was wrong.
Medical facilities and LTC facilities (as well as 1st responders) don't source their PPE through the same channels as individual consumers. There wasn't just one supply chain issue with PPE, there were two. The professionals were supposed to have their inventory backstopped by the Strategic National Stockpile which, as we all know, Jared Kushner claimed was strictly for the use of the federal governments, and "not the states" and which Trump claimed was not restocked by the Obama administration (or his, either).
Fauci should have maintained that private individuals should be wearing PPE, even when such things weren't readily available. Best case scenario, the federal government would have been able to ship PPE to drop points for distribution by local emergency management authorities. Worst case scenario, people would have been encouraged to stay home by the lack of PPE - either eventuality would have reduced spread, early on.
Instead, Fauci and the administration created the impression that the virus was not that dangerous, which then had to be walked back, resulting in loss of leadership integrity.
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I do believe that Fauci was wrong for the general public should not be wearing masks. I think he was correct in saying that general public should not be wearing PPE. The distinction should have been made between masks and medical ppe.
Do we have any answer as to how much the spread of the virus would have been reduced if the majority of NYC was wearing cloth masks? We do know that South Korea distributed masks to the public very early on.
You completely miss the point. Medical grade PPE off limits and reserved for those who jobs require it. General public could have been recommended to wear non-medical grade masks, homemade masks with directions on how to make a somewhat effective one, etc. It is not an all or nothing issue. South Korea has what 10,000 cases and many of those from one region and yet everyone has been wearing masks as required since day 1. Same goes for Czechia. Why would you think it would be wise to say there are no cases in 90% of the country so don't wear a mask? How we reduce transmission is by all making the sacrifice and wearing some form of mask from day 1.
But wasn't the national stockpile also scrambling to get PPE? Not only the immediate need, but the long range need as wel. If the general public was stocking their closets with PPE like they were with toilet paper? I'd need to see some hard evidence of billions of ppe in the national stock pile to think it was not a real consideration.
Thank you Robert, it is what I have been saying since his interview in early March.
Because you can tell the public to make their own mask but still have people stock piling PPE.
I was just having a debate a few days ago against those that said home made masks did nothing.
Did not Amazon and other suppliers re-direct all medical grade PPE supplies to prioritzed HC workers?
We don't know what the PHE was doing because at one point Trump was bragging about how much stuff we were sending to other countries, all while state and local agencies in the U.S. were looking to fill their requirements - which Trump has repeatedly categorized as "a state thing".
It all goes back to what is, in the final analysis, a textbook example of shitty incident management by the federal government. The Trump administration hasn't even had the proper agencies working on this, from Day 1.
I think it is safe to say we had no such capacity in regards to the bold.
As per cloth masks in NYC? It's a good question.
There have been homemade designs that have been shown to have levels of effectiveness approaching medical grade PPE.
I don't know, but I do know they were still woefully short.
I was on the pro mask side in that debate, so we are in agreement on this.
Ya, to me it does all go back to the initial response at the federal level.
Did states like NJ and NYC make decisions that cost a lot of lives in LTC's? Yes. Were they put in an impossible position because the messaging from up top was, "gone in a week"? Again yes.
And yeah maybe that is on Fauci as well, for believing China, for believing the WHO. But SK was creating testing in January, do we not communicate with those guys?
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Now they do but back then they weren't but it still would have been very difficult to find N95s or surgical masks, at least in this area. I was looking back in February/March so I know lol. The stores like HD/Lowes/Target/Walmart were all out unless you got lucky I guess. I just have the couple old ones at home cause everyone was out.
It wasn't even such big news yet here but articles I read later said a lot of people here were buying them and sending them to family in China while the crisis was still hot there. I don't know about other parts of the country but I think it would have been difficult for the average joe to find them around here or the west coast.
I guess I see that all levels of govt including both parties equally failed us. Rather than make this a R/D or specifically a Trump issue, I choose to look at it objectively and I see missteps the whole way on all sides. R/D thinking is way too rigid for solving a problem of this magnitude.
Yea because people aren't thinking about the "herd protection" of masks just their own protection. But even in that sense, something is better than nothing is my view. Whatever the percent protection for yourself...it can reduce the viral load that infects you and maybe you can fight that off. Just arbitrary numbers say 500M particles instead of 1 billion...yea you get infected but you might come out okay in that circumstance.
By late March Amazon and others had already prioritized. Our government could have worked with suppliers right up front in late Feb and early March to prepare and then made an announcement including redirection of supplies in a National Emergency.
In Czechia they required masks. And the country mobilized and made millions of homemade masks.
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