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Dirty

Good-Knight

All Conference
Jul 21, 2008
3,098
1,386
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One summer long ago I learned a lot from a Serbian center who had played for Fordham. He had 3 inches, 50 lbs, and 10 years on me, but what made him a very good player was filth. If you watched the old Mahorn, Lambeer, Sally, Rodman Pistons you'd see many of the same tricks. To start with, as soon as a shot went up, if he had the backside position (aka out-of-position), he'd collapse the opponents knee. I don't mean injure. I mean just drive his own knee into the back of the other guys leg to make it bend unexpected so he isn't ready when it comes time to jump two seconds later. He'd constantly find away to step on the other guys toes. On the inside, offense or defense, he would find a way to keep his elbow near the opponents throat . It's very imposing way of keeping your guy grounded and redirecting them away from the basket. He'd pretend to be unaware of a developing pick behind him and use it to deliver an elbow or knock on the picker. On runouts, he would follow through and hit the shooters sneakers. Technically it's a foul but it doesn't get called. It does nothing to the shot that just went up but it definitely is a distraction for the next runout. If a guy was playing him close, he'd use his inside hand to grab his waistband and pull him closer. It's a mind F that got guys to swing on him and he'd just laugh. On any contact, his foul or the opponents, he'd throw a hip check at the point of contact that would send skinny guys flying.

You don't see these senior moves in the college game much any more. One and dones? Instant replay? Thousand points of light? Whatever, but you don't really see the skills that used to be part of the game. I bring it up because I see Cliff pushed out of position and think he could use more of these in his tool box.
 
One summer long ago I learned a lot from a Serbian center who had played for Fordham. He had 3 inches, 50 lbs, and 10 years on me, but what made him a very good player was filth. If you watched the old Mahorn, Lambeer, Sally Pistons you'd see many of the same tricks. To start with, as soon as a shot went up, if he had the backside position (aka out-of-position), he'd collapse the opponents knee. I don't mean injure. I mean just drive his own knee into the back of the other guys leg to make it bend unexpected so he isn't ready when it comes time to jump two seconds later. He'd constantly find away to step on the other guys toes. On the inside, offense or defense, he would find a way to keep his elbow near the opponents throat . It's very imposing way of keeping your guy grounded and redirecting them away from the basket. He'd pretend to be unaware of a developing pick behind him and use it to deliver an elbow or knock on the picker. On runouts, he would follow through and hit the shooters sneakers. Technically it's a foul but it doesn't get called. It does nothing to the shot that just went up but it definitely is a distraction for the next runout. If a guy was playing him close, he'd use his inside hand to grab his waistband and pull him closer. It's a mind F that got guys to swing on him and he'd just laugh. On any contact, his foul or the opponents, he'd throw a hip check at the point of contact that would send skinny guys flying.

You don't see these senior moves in the college game much any more. One and dones? Instant replay? Thousand points of light? Whatever, but you don't really see the skills that used to be part of the game. I bring it up because I see Cliff pushed out of position and think he could use more of these in his tool box.

It’s a different game and after a few times, refs would catch on and start going to the monitor. You already see it with the hook and hold, which is probably one of the “tricks” the guy you know used.
 
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I think things are called tighter these days and you also have the flagrant 1 and 2 thing too.
 
Are these things he used in pick up games long after his playing days were over? With out refs. Because even when I was playing mid 90’s those would be things my teammates would either address themselves or make sure to share with the ref. It’s one thing to once in awhile use any of those tactics to gain an advantage but would not regularly employ.
 
How long ago? Before 3 refs?
Video replay cleaned up all that
Surprised opposing teammates didn’t police that.
 
At the time, the NBA and the Big East were a lot more physical. I'm not talking about taking out a guys feet on a jump shot or deliberately throwing an elbow to hurt a guy, I'm talking about the spitball kind of dirty play that isn't strictly legal. This was in the 90's Chelsea Piers league with the winning team getting like half the entry fee in prize money so if you worked hard and got lucky you could take home a grand. Only one ref ..and I would not take that job for love or money since some of the teams were rumored to be sponsored by crack entrepreneurs.
 
HAHAHA! Only one ref.
I remember Celtics and Knicks games from that era where they'd pretty much have fights with no ejections. Elbow a guy in the face and get a common foul, maybe.
It's fun to talk about how much tougher we were back in the day, but the game has changed for the better. That stuff was dumb.
 
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When was the last time you saw a player lean on someone and the defender moves and the guy falls. Everyone once in awhile you'd see stuff like that. The game has definitely lost some physicalness and has been replaced by the 3 pointer. Most like it, but I don't. I am a fan of a 40-45 second shot clock where offenses probe a defense and make them work. Offenses going north to south and east and west and guys moving strong off the ball using screens set away.
 
When was the last time you saw a player lean on someone and the defender moves and the guy falls.
Nail the post player in the ass with a knee/thigh, then when he goes to get you back, quickly step back and off to the side so he doesn't fall on you. I used to love doing that.
I also wished I played for Paul Westhead at LMU when they were scoring 120 points/game and love how the game has changed. Running and shooting is a lot more fun than banging.
 
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