GAME 4 De Paul: On Pike

[The RUT]

I am not asking you to do this, but if you read all my posts about this team starting preseason you will get what i think the issues are. After losing to DePaul I am not going to rehash my views to a board partially melting down.

To be fair, my views aren’t emotional meltdowns.

I’ve been beating the same drum consistently for 3 years now and have remained consistent in those beliefs through wins and losses

 

[Scarlet Blind]

Updated +/-,
Cliff +32(+3,19min/100min), Geo +18(+5,32min/140), RHJ +15(-3,33min/140)
Paul +15(+1,33 min/131), Hyatt +14(+3,24min/95), Caleb +13(+1,21min/97),
Jaden 0(-1,9min/46), Reiber 0(-1,7min/17)
Mag -6(0,8min/24), Agee -10(0,14 min/43)

The not so good trend is Offensive and Defensive Efficiency by player,
the individual Ken Pom player ratings and O/D possessions in game.

As a comparison of good middle bad, #1 Gonzaga 120.2, 89.6
#179 Northeastern 96.7, 97.7, #358 Miss Valley St 80.1, 116.4

RHJ 218- 100.9, 216-96.6 (108.0/91.9 20-21)
Cliff 155- 110.5, 155- 92.4 (102.1/88.1 20-21)
Geo 220- 97.9, 218- 92.9 (107.9/93.0 20-21)
Caleb 148- 88.9, 146- 84.0 (98.1/82.9 20-21)
Paul 189- 97.9, 188- 92.9 (109.9/90.9 20-21)
Hyatt 142- 99.0, 145- 90.2 (LSU- 122.2/98.5)
**20-21 Myles 109.9/90.4, JY 107.6/94.7, Mathis 102.9/95.3**

Are they missing those three so far, yes, Cliff is filling Myles shoes nicely, Geo is.Geo, Ron is.Ron, Paul is Paul, not JY(21/28 20-21), Caleb isn't JY or Mathis as a starter, Hyatt is an easy fit 6th man into the rotation, can hang. #1-6 are suffering and down across the board from playing too many minutes and #7-10 Mag, Jaden, Reiber, Agee is no where close to #7-8 on last year's team, or the 9 man rotation in 2019-20.

Mag 40- 71.5, 39-89.6 (inj. Lehigh)
Reiber 24- 69.9, 24-70.9 (DNP NJIT)
Jaden 61- 102.7, 61- 105.5
*Gonzales-Agee 68- 83.4, 67-101.4*
*Doucoure 80- 82.5, 82-110.7*(20-21)
Mag(41/42 89.9,84.6 20-21)
Reiber(69/72 96.2/72.8 20-21)

Looking back, I'm sure Pike wishes he scheduled one or two more OOC last year, invested more meaningful minutes in Mag, Reiber, Palmquist or even Jaden after he knew JY/Mathis weren't coming back, it does makes you wonder if JY and Mathis kept games closer(shaved points) to keep games close and stay in over true Freshman. Unfortunately, we had the 30 year drought looming over his head and Pike stuck with the 8 experienced players at the expense of 2021-22.

And Dep💩ul happens.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

To be fair, my views aren’t emotional meltdowns.

I’ve been beating the same drum consistently for 3 years now and have remained consistent in those beliefs through wins and losses

Pike has done the impossible making the NCAA tournament 2 years in a row. If you have been beating this drum for 3 years you were ridiculously wrong for the last 2

 

[The RUT]

Pike has done the impossible making the NCAA tournament 2 years in a row. If you have been beating this drum for 3 years you were ridiculously wrong for the last 2

Not really, we didn’t actually make it in 2020, there’s not a banner up there so don’t claim it. It sounds dumb.

And if you want to claim it, both years we squeezed by.

It’s really not hard to make the tournament like many of you think. Just don’t be complete ass. Average teams make it.

 

[zebnatto]

I know Pike doesn’t want to do it, but he may have to switch his defensive philosophy to match his roster. We are long but not quick and to me that suggest zone rather than man to man, even if it’s only to mix things up.

 

[RUChoppin]

The other Baker play i referenced was earlier in the game when his pass was picked off

Oh god, yeah, I remember that play. Telegraphed pass, led immediately to a run out. Don't know if Baker could have gotten back to stop the shot, or if he would have just ended up fouling. Not sure when it the game it was exactly, but that one drove me crazy.

 

[Plum Street]

I don't want to go there, at least not right now.

All I will say that we have a sample size of players leaving and the team getting much better. Corey and Eugene EXHIBIT A and B.

Harper would be tough to replace in the portal. Geo's position is a dime a dozen and can easily be replaced in the portal. It will be obvious to a potential player that the path to starter's minutes is there. Pike should have a choice and be able to get his type of player.

You’re the one that went there and brought up next season

 

[Groz]

To be fair, my views aren’t emotional meltdowns.

I’ve been beating the same drum consistently for 3 years now and have remained consistent in those beliefs through wins and losses

If that is the case, you must not have a clue. Not sure that you really have been watching Rutgers.

I guess you just think that Coach Pikiell has been very lucky to make the NCAA tournament(really 2 years) and having turned the program from a laughingstock to being well respected among the college basketball community?

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[The RUT]

If that is the case, you must not have a clue. Not sure that you really have been watching Rutgers.

I guess you just think that Coach Pikiell has been very lucky to make the NCAA tournament(really 2 years) and having turned the program from a laughingstock to being well respected among the college basketball community?

Best of Luck,
Groz

Nope, my opinion on Pike is that he’s a very average coach that preaches effort.

The belief that making the NCAAs is a difficult thing to do is bananas to me

 

[Shelby65]

Agree 100%. There are guys out there who would be legitimately cancerous to the locker room (Teddy Allen). But those guys are the minority. Skip over them but otherwise managing egos is part of the job of a coach

yea managing egos is part of the job but this isn’t the nba. one particular player (think NIL) is ball dominant and looks for his own shot too often while other players stand around watching. Coach is too permissive with that crap. Be a team player.

 

[Groz]

Nope, my opinion on Pike is that he’s a very average coach that preaches effort.

The belief that making the NCAAs is a difficult thing to do is bananas to me

If the NCAA is not difficult to make, then how do you possibly explain us not making it for 30 years?

I do agree that a major P5 team should make it at least every 6-8 years regardless of who the coach is. Other than the blue bloods, teams are recruiting the same type players year in and year out and Rutgers has just had bad luck with our mix of players and coaches.

But, it is not easy to make the NCAA tournament. Only 68 teams make it. Now if you want to talk about making a bowl game, I would agree that most P5 teams should make it.

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[Groz]

yea managing egos is part of the job but this isn’t the nba. one particular player (think NIL) is ball dominant and looks for his own shot too often while other players stand around watching. Coach is too permissive with that crap. Be a team player.

Seton Hall has had 10 players in the last 20 years that took way more shots than Geo does and were considered star players. I actually wish that Geo would take more shots. He has a much better chance of hitting them than most of our other players.

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[Shelby65]

Groz-You are missing the point of team offense. Sure, isolation for NIL-guy might be the best desperation option with 5 seconds on the clock but that’s not the best option when there’s time to move the ball, use screens, etc.


If you think NIL-iso is our best option why don’t we do only that same thing for 40 minutes ?

No, having 4 players standing still watching 1 guy chuck is garbage offense

 

[LeapinLou]

Bac; Your writing like it is a game thread. First half we allowed them to out rebound us on the offensive glass and dropped 2 rebounds into their laps for layups. We cleaned that up in the second half. Harper got off to a slow offensive and defensive start and Johnson outplayed him early leading to DePaul being another team with a first half lead on us. Paul played his best game of the year. The foul shot disparity was hard to overcome and we almost did.

I really cannot understand the criticism with the second half . Started out great with Geo getting off right away and Paul hitting some shots and more importantly Cliff with the 3 beautiful flushes from passes from Geo and Paul. Then the key change in the game as Cliff picked up his third and fourth fouls. That was the main reason we lost.
Agee from the 12 to 8 minute mark gets 3 offensive rebounds and instead of going straight up for a layup or flush , instead put the ball on the floor and actually went away from the basket and towards the defender to allow his shot to get blocked . instead of 6 easy points to allow us to separate , gets fouls only once and made 1 shot so 1 out of 6 points. That was a killer. So disappointing for a grad transfer as I thought that was the part of the game we could have put some distance from them.

This Caleb / Jones dilemma has to get solved. Caleb has become an offensive liability but he plays defense. Jones hit a big shot early but when put back in for Caleb , got beat immediately on 2 back to back drives, where our 54-50 lead disappeared. But Jones is clearly our best shooter and to not run plays and screens for him when he is in the game is a bad job by Pike. In a game like this where the other team is hitting some ridiculous 3’s , you need as much offense as possible and the trade off of Jones impactful offense against his dismal defense , I think would make a coach lean offense but Pike went the other way. Now not sure if it is early or whether we do not have the players but our lockdown defense of the last 3 years has not surfaced yet , as we have now given up double digit 3’s in back to back games. Pike not choosing offense and thinking his defense is going to get it done has not materialized.

Otherwise, I thought it was a really decent second half and Ron and Geo tried to will us to a victory but came up short with Geo getting a good look for the tie. Not subbing Jones for Caleb with 30 seconds or just shy of that left when we fouled down one 71-70 was a bad job by Pike. He had to know that DePaul was going do everything to deny Ron , who just hit 2 threes , the ball as well as hound Geo , who hit a few of his own . Jones gives us the third option and Hyatt was the 4th option . Have Cliff run a screen for Jones for the baseline tying jumper but you cannot even dream that could happen because he is not in the game. Mistake in my opinion even though Geo got a good look.
Mag gave us some good first half minutes by left his feet and fouled a 3 pointer shooter in the second. Reiber did not as he gave up back to back rebounds on foul shots bacause he didn’t box out properly and got a bunny blocked at the rim instead of going up strong with 2 hands and flushing it. Hopefully he will learn.

Hyatt did a little of everything and hit a big 3 to tie it at 61 late.

Our defense is not up to snuff yet. Granted DePaul hit some tough threes but we were a step behind the screen to allow their looks. Give DePaul credit for hitting them but we gave them a little too much space.

Pike has gone to a new offense this year with 4 guys starting on the baseline and Ron coming up on a horns set and then allowing one on one isolation. Pike feels Ron can take anyone off that set but when Ron is off as he was in the first half , it looks bad. Worse than that , our other players stand around like statues and are not in a good offensive rebounding position . We have seen more isolation this year compared to any of Pike’s teams , and I do not think it is healthy even though Duke and Kentucky and other top teams do it all the time. I would go back to running Motion , pass and cut , screen and back screen to set up Jones and Geo and Ron and Aundre for shots .
Disappointing loss but the sky is falling threads are over the top. The Big 10 is down this year from the early results and what I have seen from about 6-7 teams. Purdue is the only team that looks elite and then it is a crapshoot. This team will get better . Pike has to figure out the rotation and some players have to play better , Paul ( he did tonight ) Caleb , Jones on defense, and Agee ( who could have finally shown us something but overdribbled away the layups ) .

I just want to let you know that I have not read this thread. I just skimmed it to find your post. I love Bac and he's my boy, but you give the best post game analysis on this board. I dare say better than our beat writers. Keep up the good work.

 

[Groz]

Groz-You are missing the point of team offense. Sure, isolation for NIL-guy might be the best desperation option with 5 seconds on the clock but that’s not the best option when there’s time to move the ball, use screens, etc.


If you think NIL-iso is our best option why don’t we do only that same thing for 40 minutes ?

No, having 4 players standing still watching 1 guy chuck is garbage offense

No, I don't advocate that we do that all. I wish we could move the ball around like the 1970 and 1973 Knicks. I am not in favor of 1 guy being the offense at all. Guess I was just trying to say that the Hall fans didn't kill all of their big time scorers that shot a ton.

I don't know what has changed so much that we can't move the ball. It is so hard to watch right now. We have a whole year to figure it out, but at this point it does not look pretty.

Last year, even with Ron out, we moved the ball pretty well and were playing our best ball to get open shots(even if we don't have great shooters).

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[KnightTerrors]

when? 2026

where are the players, this is probably as bad as Jordans recruiting

Come on man. It’s a bad loss and im pissed as hell but now we’re comparing Pike to Eddie?

You have multiple years left of Cliff, Jones, and Hyatt.

 

[cyrock3]

Overall Pike’s recruiting isn’t as bad as Jordan’s recruiting, but there are too many recruiting misses on the roster right now. Can’t expect to compete when Geo/Ron/Cliff/Jaden/Aundre are your only solid B1G players.

We need more people to step up or someone from the above group needs to get to a star level like Ron was in the first half of last season.

I also recognize this may not be a practical ask.

 

[bac2therac]

I will say this was not one of my best game recaps..very emotional and reactive immediately after the game. However a day later I dont think my overall sentiment has changed that much.

I think we are in an "we are what we are" type situation and maybe I am moving toward accepting it. I will give through the Seton Hall game

But one thing is clear, holy moly this thread has 6 pages and over 3000 views and there are like tons of threads on the board with some great discussion, make no mistake our fanbase is PASSIONATE about this program

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Reducing expectations a touch is probably a good idea. You never know.

I have given up on players in fantasy baseball and end up looking like an a$$ when the player figures it out and he ends up on the 1st place team

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I’m disappointed by the loss but I’m more frustrated with not seeing more of RHJ / Hyatt at 4 / 5 when Cliff has to sit. Caleb’s shooting has been a nightmare but it’s not why we lost. Had he played 32+ minutes DePaul doesn’t score enough points to beat us.

I do agree we need to get Jones more touches - I just think it has to be with both Caleb and Hyatt on the floor right now based on where his defense is at. Jones should mostly play when Paul gets his rest. Or Geo. Mag can relieve Caleb and Hyatt. I have not yet seen any other bench players with good enough defense to be seeing the floor. We have no transition game. To be successful we need to win through defense.