My two cents. First of all Pike is doing what he does every year with OOC games, trying to see how pieces fit. Thought Hyatt played a solid game. I would have liked to see more Jones and Mag. Paul looks uncomfortable shooting. Caleb has not played well. Agee needs to go right up when underneath he doesn’t look comfortable in offense yet, but shows promise. Thought RHJ played well especially when mixing drives in with long range shots. To me what we missed were drives to basket from guards. Cliff played 19 minutes got more fouls than rebounds. Last shot cannot always be Geo.
GAME 4 De Paul: On Pike
- Thread starter bac2therac
- Start date
Beating seton hall and Clemson is a tough task . Nothing we have shown so far has us winning either game
We just lost to the worst team in the big east and you're trying to gloat about how much you know. The house is on fire and you're acting like everything is fine.
It’s rutgers basketball . Pike took us to levels many fans have never seen . He has equity to stink for a couple years
We have Clemson, Seton Hall, Illinois, Purdue and UMass in the next 30 days. We could easily be out of NCAA contention and have the wheels fall off before we get to January. It is not about just using November and December to get ready for the conference games. First of all our two Big Ten games in December and first one in January are against probably the three best teams. I’m with bac, I don’t feel better about the team’s prospects 10 hours later. The last couple years I didn’t obsess about recruiting or the years ahead unlike in all of the endless rebuilding years. Just enjoyed the ride. However, this could be a very bumpy ride and get ugly at this rate and looking to next year is not something that I think anyone wants to think about given what is and isn’t coming back, portal or no portal. Overreacting? We’re four games into the season and all I see are problems.
lets note that DePaul only played 7 and one of them sat for a really long stretch in the 2nd half. Yet they continued to beat us up and down the floor and for the putback rebounds
Define "everything is fine"? I don't believe this is a tournament quality team. It could be, but it's not the base case. I knew that before the season because there was absolutely no reason for the absurdly high expectations.
Lots of people seem to simultaneously think that Baker sucks and also that we will drop 150 spots when he leaves. This is not rational.
when? 2026
where are the players, this is probably as bad as Jordans recruiting
2 NCAA tournament berths. We will be fine. It may not be with the guys currently on the roster
Also, while there is no indication that DePaul is a good team, it's far from obvious that they are the worst in the Big East. This is likely to be a Q2 game.
Assuming Cliff is still in uniform next year he will use the portal to get the team he wants. He has a system, it works.
I am not giving up on this year, yet.
who are they finishing ahead of, Gtown, St Johns and DePaul are in a group of the worst 3
its a 7 team roster that plays horrible defense
its a 7 team roster that plays horrible defense
Meh? People have some serious rose colored glasses for what this team looked like in say 2019. We have pieces now that look better or at least on the same level as what we had at the end of the 2018-19 season. Now, was it a fluke that that team grew to be what we saw in 2019-2021? Maybe but I think Pike needs to get a little more credit.
Here's where I'm at:
1. We're a bad high major team. There was virtually no difference between us and Depaul and I'm very confident they're also a bad high major team.
2. Six years ago we would've killed to be at this level. "Can't we just be a normal bad team?" was a common refrain.
3. Teams like Rutgers are not going to the NCAA tournament every single season. Pikiell is not a failure for missing the tournament.
4. However, and this is the big one, Pikiell ****ed up with all his preseason talk about this being his best team. It is plainly not his best team and I think he's blown a lot of (earned) good will from fans by making that proclamation and then having the team play like this. It invites questions: If he can't properly assess his own team, can he properly assess recruits? Does he know what needs to happen to fix the problems? The ire from the fanbase given his hyping up of the team is completely warranted.
5. I've disliked many things about the way Pikiell has done things, from the recruits he targets to the style of play he runs. This is purely limited to the basketball aspect. He's a tremendous representative of the University in a way that the previous coaches have not been.
6. He got us to the tournament (twice) and has earned plenty of runway to do things his way, opinions of message board posters like myself be damned. Do I think we're going to make it back to the tournament any time soon? Not really, no. I don't see him bringing in the recruits to get it done and his stated approach to the transfer portal doesn't fill me with hope.
7. What he does with that runway is the question. Let's talk long-term. If Pikiell makes one of the next five tournaments, is that enough to keep him for longer? I think it is. Let's not forget where we came from. If it's January 2025 and he hasn't made the tournament since 2021 and we're off to a 2-6 start in the Big Ten then it'll be time to start having the conversation.
1. We're a bad high major team. There was virtually no difference between us and Depaul and I'm very confident they're also a bad high major team.
2. Six years ago we would've killed to be at this level. "Can't we just be a normal bad team?" was a common refrain.
3. Teams like Rutgers are not going to the NCAA tournament every single season. Pikiell is not a failure for missing the tournament.
4. However, and this is the big one, Pikiell ****ed up with all his preseason talk about this being his best team. It is plainly not his best team and I think he's blown a lot of (earned) good will from fans by making that proclamation and then having the team play like this. It invites questions: If he can't properly assess his own team, can he properly assess recruits? Does he know what needs to happen to fix the problems? The ire from the fanbase given his hyping up of the team is completely warranted.
5. I've disliked many things about the way Pikiell has done things, from the recruits he targets to the style of play he runs. This is purely limited to the basketball aspect. He's a tremendous representative of the University in a way that the previous coaches have not been.
6. He got us to the tournament (twice) and has earned plenty of runway to do things his way, opinions of message board posters like myself be damned. Do I think we're going to make it back to the tournament any time soon? Not really, no. I don't see him bringing in the recruits to get it done and his stated approach to the transfer portal doesn't fill me with hope.
7. What he does with that runway is the question. Let's talk long-term. If Pikiell makes one of the next five tournaments, is that enough to keep him for longer? I think it is. Let's not forget where we came from. If it's January 2025 and he hasn't made the tournament since 2021 and we're off to a 2-6 start in the Big Ten then it'll be time to start having the conversation.
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
See now, personally I am of the belief that we should not be burying the bar and giving an extra long leash due to 30 years of futility.
Also, depaul was without 2 starters last night
I mean part of my point is that they have only played 3 games, they surely could be the worst in the Big East but everyone is just declaring it as fact based on some preseason poll. So far they look significantly better than Butler and Georgetown and in the same region as St. John's.
Recruiting Recruiting Recruiting! Pike can develop talent but his recruiting skills are below average. So from last years recruiting class is anyone playing besides Jones? He might be a worse recruiter than Waters.
That’s the past. What have you seen recruiting wise that indicates we’ll be fine?
3 or hopefully 4 things to remember next year
1. Don't pay any attention to scrimmages
2. Don't buy in to coach speak
3. Don't listen to Dick Weiss
4. Don't over react to a small sample size of games, especially early in the year
1. Don't pay any attention to scrimmages
2. Don't buy in to coach speak
3. Don't listen to Dick Weiss
4. Don't over react to a small sample size of games, especially early in the year
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Someone we landed in May of 2020?!? Seriously. Did you see the rest of the 2020 class?
Did you see the 2021 class and have you seen the 2022 class? Stop trying to runaway from the reality of how poor recruiting is
No. 4 nails it.
But, there are changes that need to be made. Hyatt must start, Jones must shoot more and defend better. McConnell and Mulcahy must stop dribbling too much, Ball movement must improve and there needs to be a quicker guard on the court at times to apply some defensive pressure.
Finally, refs can't call fouls that result in 20 more free throws for one team... 😂
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Starters should be: Baker/Mulcahy/Hyatt/Harper/Omoruyi
Jones needs to keep getting minutes with a lot of coaching between games to get him to understand better how to a) get open, and b) defend better. I can't see him getting much more than 10-15 right now.
McConnell needs fewer minutes, down below 15, until he can show he has any clue what he's doing out there offensively.
Minutes we may need to see:
33 - Baker
33 - Harper
28 - Mulcahy
28 - Hyatt
25 - Omoruyi
14 - Mag
12 - McConnell
12 - Jones
10 - Agee
5 - Reiber
Jones needs to keep getting minutes with a lot of coaching between games to get him to understand better how to a) get open, and b) defend better. I can't see him getting much more than 10-15 right now.
McConnell needs fewer minutes, down below 15, until he can show he has any clue what he's doing out there offensively.
Minutes we may need to see:
33 - Baker
33 - Harper
28 - Mulcahy
28 - Hyatt
25 - Omoruyi
14 - Mag
12 - McConnell
12 - Jones
10 - Agee
5 - Reiber
Again his defense cost us late as he fouled and left his man wide open for a 3 pointer which by the way he also did on their very first bucket of the game
And he didn’t and he won’t in the big 10 he is still getting completely outmuscled
6 minutes left we are up 54-50. I thought we were having a bad game, but still were up on the road. Everything was fine.
The last 6 minutes we gave up 23 points and we had breakdowns all over. Analyze what went wrong in those 6 minutes to find out what the problem really is. Look at the possessions, you will find out why we lost the game. You will find the parties most guilty aren't the ones people are blaming.
NO ONE on this roster is good enough to play tired. I don't blame Pike for who he is playing and not playing. Pike needs to play guys no more than 28 minutes, trust guys that he doesn't trust (not necesarily Jones) and have us fresh down the stretch.
This program is built on defense. As long as Pike coaches here that will be our calling card. I hope he can find a rotation of at least 8 guys that will give it their all on the defensive end.
The last 6 minutes we gave up 23 points and we had breakdowns all over. Analyze what went wrong in those 6 minutes to find out what the problem really is. Look at the possessions, you will find out why we lost the game. You will find the parties most guilty aren't the ones people are blaming.
NO ONE on this roster is good enough to play tired. I don't blame Pike for who he is playing and not playing. Pike needs to play guys no more than 28 minutes, trust guys that he doesn't trust (not necesarily Jones) and have us fresh down the stretch.
This program is built on defense. As long as Pike coaches here that will be our calling card. I hope he can find a rotation of at least 8 guys that will give it their all on the defensive end.
McConnell needs to be rewired offensively. He doesn't need his minutes cut. If he can't be rewired then his minutes need to be cut. Watch the last 6 minutes defensively.......Caleb is the scapegoat. He isn't why we lost.
We have a decent sample size of what Caleb can do. He played a siginificant role last year. We can't let 4 games dictate what we do. He needs a tuneup
Forget about who won or lost. If Depaul missed two more three pointers my opinion of what Rutgers is right now and going forward would not be any different.
I agree with you . But we are rutgers . We have continually stunk . Our fans were chanting we want bob in 1997!! This was after we sucked for years . There is a long history by our fans of sticking up for lousy coaches . Now we get a coach that is pretty decent and we are overly critical ? At another place where sports is a priority and not a historic stink place , sure . Not at rutgers.
I am not saying we will win those games, I am saying winning those games will erase this loss. I also think DePaul is better then thhey used to be and you guys are treating this loss like they are what they used to be.
Let’s face it, Pike watched this team for months and said it’s his best team!!! He also says the season is a full book so I guess we reserve judgment at end of season… but the first chapters are not very good so I won’t put the book down and I’ll wait. The ending will be all on you coach and only you. The book club wants to have a fun discussion in March.
I am well aware as of late November how bad his recruits have been. Definitely a real possibility Pikes batting average is bad for a few years.
The good news is we have a template and there is a portal. I am very optimistic about next year. We will have strong leadership and will use the portal to fill holes.
I had always thought this was a rebuilding year. I did expect the newcomers to be better, but I still think next year will be fine.
I respect your opinion and I hope you are right. Clearly, there are some red flags. I hope Pike can make some adjustments on the recruiting and transfer portal market.
Okay, went back to the last 6 minutes of the game. Biggest offender, imo, was Hyatt.
54-50: Freeman-Liberty pushes off Baker to get open under the basket, and Harper fouls trying to help. F-L hits the layup and his FT. Announcers were blaming Harper here, but it was Baker's man and he was pushed out of the way for F-L to get open.
54-53: After a Mulcahy missed 3 (looked to be a good look to me), Hyatt called for foul for holding Johnson's arm. Looks like Johnson may have initiated this with a cagey move, but still a foul Hyatt could have avoided. Johnson hit both FTs
54-55: Harper makes 2 FTs after getting an elbow from Johnson
56-55: Harper misses a 3 after bobbling the ball, but Omoruyi cleans it up with a putback.
58-55: Mulcahy can't get around a clearly moving screen, as defender stepped into him as he was pursuing his man, leads to an open 3.
58-58: Baker drives and misses a layup. Hyatt doubles the driving player, leaving his man open on the perimeter, ball is kicked out for 3 and he can't recover.
58-61: Hyatt hits great 3 in rhythm
61-61: Freeman-Liberty hits a three from 6+ feet outside the arc over Baker, who was defending with his heels on the arc
61-64: Hyatt misses a somewhat rushed 3. On the other end, Hyatt loses Jones and gets caught chasing, and Jones hits a 3.
61-67: Baker hits a 3 in rhythm
64-67: Mulcahy helps down to double, gets a hand on the ball to knock it loose, but DePaul recovers and kicks, Mulcahy fouls trying to recover to his man. DePaul makes 1/2 FTs
64-68: Harper big 3
67-68: Hyatt gets lost on a screen and Mulcahy couldn't switch in time, leading to an open 3
67-71: Harper big 3
70-71: Fouled intentionally, but DePaul hit both.
70-73: Baker missed final shot.
Defensive lapses by Hyatt led to 11 of DePaul's last 23 points.
Last year we had holes to fill. The portal could have filled those holes. The problem, as I see it, was there were already pegs in some of the holes.
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