This is troubling because you’re always balanced in your analysis. You’re not wrong. Only time I saw something was when DePaul jumped ahead. Hopefully this was a wake up call.
GAME 4 De Paul: On Pike
- Thread starter bac2therac
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This is troubling because you’re always balanced in your analysis. You’re not wrong. Only time I saw something was when DePaul jumped ahead. Hopefully this was a wake up call.
they werent hungry and they lost, i watched the game
the mindset is all wrong from the beginning
Tell me, did we have any purpose out there..did we in the first 3 games...then tell me if we have hunger
Facilities are overrated in terms of a recruiting boost.
To be fair, Rutgers could have been up by 100 and the announcers would have been talking about how epic the layup by DePaul in the first half was
Cmon man. We’ve seen what a hungry Pike team looks like and that wasn’t it. A hungry team goes to the rim with authority, gets in the face of the ball handler and hits the glass hard as a team. They did none of those things tonight.
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I don't know because I'm watching games on TV and shit. That's the whole point. You're trying to tell me about the mindset of a bunch of dudes you don't know, don't talk to, and have no inside information on besides watching them play basketball.
we have NCAA experience on our team and that could not get us a win against a bad De Paul. We couldnt gather ourselves as a team to make one damn stop down the stretch and couldnt rebound for shit when it mattered. Still I dont think the coach put them in the best position to win and there was so much wrong with the strategy from the get go that I am getting really concerned.
yeah i watched time and time again De Paul guys go right up for the rebound after miss while our guys just watched...ooh such hunger
You're trying to act smarter than everyone when we just lost to a new coach, new players, only 7 on scholarship, with senior NCAA experience. What exactly do you think will happen next year when Baker and geo leave and we're left with the d2 scrubs pikiell has recruited
Good level-headed take. My biggest concern after watching tonight is that we have no backup big man. Agee was awful. He missed 4 buckets (that Cliff easily makes) by receiving a great interior pass and then bringing the ball down to his waste like a CYO player not a 5th year senior. His early performances have been Souf-like! I also hate that Jones is getting no PT!
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I am smarter than you, but that has nothing to do with this.
If we have bad players with no talent then we will lose badly. And bac will tell us that their effort and mindset are bad.
The only thing I will say from an effort standpoint....I thought the turning point of the game when an open 3 was made in transition breaking a tie. The 3 was open because a player jogged back on D.
I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if this is his last year here
A few players look entitled. It’s one thing to not be afraid to make mistakes but it’s quite another to take every 2nd play off. No ramifications for lack of energy and hustle. If we had strong leaders, we win this game. Our players only get pumped when they make a big play. Otherwise, there is a lot of laziness.
Yes, it is one loss and might end up being a bad one by the end of the season, but I don't think Pike makes much needed changes if we eek out another win against DePaul, and the team and Coach Pike needs to make changes and adjustments to the Starting lineup as well as rotations going forward after this loss.
Caleb has to sit, I'm not bothered by Paul as much as Caleb's complete non factor existence on the court, I don't care if it Hyatt or Jones starting. If it's Hyatt, Jones needs to be the 6th man, I don't care if he gets beat on 5 straight possessions in a row, he needs to learn how to be a better defender by defending someone not sitting on a bench in favor of a guy who doesn't contributing on offense. Jaden will become the best shooter at Rutgers since Quincy Douby, PERIOD. Douby was a horrible defender in his freshman year, too, but his offense far outweighed his subpar defense. Jaden will do the same, F**k nice, F**k wait your turn, and F**k earning minutes in practice when you have a talent like Jaden Jones, you play them early and often, he still thinks he's at Stony Brook with that loyalty and earning your playing time BS mentality. Cliff, Mr. Top 50 player in 2020, would be further along if he played more minutes his freshman year over mild Myles and his limited offense skill who has scored 2, 2, 3 and season high 5 at UCLA. Mag needs to see more time too, he has potential.
Caleb 21 minuteS tonight, 0-6, 0-2, 1ast, 1stl 2 PFs, 4 on 5 offense for 21 minutes, half the game. Make him 7th or 8th in the rotation like Mathis last year till he earns it back.
Caleb in 96 minutes thru 4 games, FG 5-25 20% 3pt 0-7 0% FTs 4-9 44%, 16reb(0 tonight), 2 assists, 8 steal, 2blk, 3TOs, 14 pts, that is 0.15 points per minute.
Jaden has scored 21 pts in 46 minutes on 8-12, 2-3, FT 3-4, 5reb almost 0.5 pts a minute. I want to see Jalen Miller get time on the court, and see what a true point guard can do on this team, good and bad, tired of combo guard PT guards, tired of wing forwards playing point guard. Jalen needs to be a 10-15 minute legit backup PT guard. No more Agee at Center, move him to the 4 or permanently on the bench, he is way overmatched at backup 5. I'd take Reiber Hyatt or Nathan at 5 at this point. Pike has a lot of work and moves to do before Lafayette.
Caleb has to sit, I'm not bothered by Paul as much as Caleb's complete non factor existence on the court, I don't care if it Hyatt or Jones starting. If it's Hyatt, Jones needs to be the 6th man, I don't care if he gets beat on 5 straight possessions in a row, he needs to learn how to be a better defender by defending someone not sitting on a bench in favor of a guy who doesn't contributing on offense. Jaden will become the best shooter at Rutgers since Quincy Douby, PERIOD. Douby was a horrible defender in his freshman year, too, but his offense far outweighed his subpar defense. Jaden will do the same, F**k nice, F**k wait your turn, and F**k earning minutes in practice when you have a talent like Jaden Jones, you play them early and often, he still thinks he's at Stony Brook with that loyalty and earning your playing time BS mentality. Cliff, Mr. Top 50 player in 2020, would be further along if he played more minutes his freshman year over mild Myles and his limited offense skill who has scored 2, 2, 3 and season high 5 at UCLA. Mag needs to see more time too, he has potential.
Caleb 21 minuteS tonight, 0-6, 0-2, 1ast, 1stl 2 PFs, 4 on 5 offense for 21 minutes, half the game. Make him 7th or 8th in the rotation like Mathis last year till he earns it back.
Caleb in 96 minutes thru 4 games, FG 5-25 20% 3pt 0-7 0% FTs 4-9 44%, 16reb(0 tonight), 2 assists, 8 steal, 2blk, 3TOs, 14 pts, that is 0.15 points per minute.
Jaden has scored 21 pts in 46 minutes on 8-12, 2-3, FT 3-4, 5reb almost 0.5 pts a minute. I want to see Jalen Miller get time on the court, and see what a true point guard can do on this team, good and bad, tired of combo guard PT guards, tired of wing forwards playing point guard. Jalen needs to be a 10-15 minute legit backup PT guard. No more Agee at Center, move him to the 4 or permanently on the bench, he is way overmatched at backup 5. I'd take Reiber Hyatt or Nathan at 5 at this point. Pike has a lot of work and moves to do before Lafayette.
I am not sure things are as bad as it is being portrayed here, the season started 9 days ago and we had 2 games in 3 days....maybe a little flat with a travel day and short turnaround.
But there are some ways you can play the game, if you are not fast or quick, but it then requires RU to look more like a better version of Wisconsin.
There are structural gaps that are just asking players to play in different spots and roles that aren't going to work.
A) Mulcahy by any definition of a Power 5 program, is just a basketball player.....but he isn't a guard, so he can't be asked to defend other guards.....and while he's 6'6", he's really not a wing who can guard a true SF. So he can't get out on shooters or stay in front of good offensive players...this isn't news, just a general observation. He can contribute on this level, but how he is used is where you have overlap.....
B) I am not seeing this lack of defense by Jaden Jones, he played all of 9 minutes, not 29 minutes.....he is realistically, the only true option to handle the ball and actually start the offense....Don't call me crazy, but other than Geo, there isn't another option to have someone who can generate his own shot, off the dribble beyond Geo and RHJ.....he needs to be turned loose and green-lighted ASAP....
C) if you are going to play 30 or more games, there are games where you are going to have to outscore or outshoot your opponents....and by any definition, Mulcahy with 9 shots and Caleb with 6, with Jones at 1, is just bad coaching.... I am OK with Hyatt at 10 to 12 shots a game, but there's no formula to offset 17 shots a game departing with Jacob Young and Mathis, and have Caleb and Mulcahy absorb that amount of shot attempts.
This isn't overly complicated, the shot distribution and minutes that don't have Jones and Hyatt at a combined 20 shots a game, is going to be a loss in any B1G game.
Beyond this year, assuming we green light Hyatt and Jones, this team can play with anyone in the country.....I know it doesn't seem like it, but Jones, Hyatt, Geo, RHJ and Cliff are bona-fide players...Mulcahy can play a role and I know Caleb is completely out of whack, but he is a 7th player.
For this to work and solve this year and next year, the equation has to involve developing Jones and playing Hyatt. For 2022 recruiting, I really like Simpson a LOT.....but even as much as I like Simpson, it would be completely unfair to Simpson or Jalen Miller to be 2 of your guards next year, both as 1st year players (assuming Miller is redshirting and not playing this year).
Finding 2 legitimate guards to help Simpson would be a necessity unless you are going to give Jaden Jones 28 guard/wing minutes....even if Jaden is successful and does well this year, I am just assuming 2 guards are still needed, because I can't in good faith count Mulcahy as a plus guard/shooter at guard on offense or on defense.
It is practically impossible to not find a guard or 2 that can step in for 2022, I would like to think RU might have to get their hands dirty like 80 to 85% of schools and start really competing for recruiting talent to keep things moving.....
But there are some ways you can play the game, if you are not fast or quick, but it then requires RU to look more like a better version of Wisconsin.
There are structural gaps that are just asking players to play in different spots and roles that aren't going to work.
A) Mulcahy by any definition of a Power 5 program, is just a basketball player.....but he isn't a guard, so he can't be asked to defend other guards.....and while he's 6'6", he's really not a wing who can guard a true SF. So he can't get out on shooters or stay in front of good offensive players...this isn't news, just a general observation. He can contribute on this level, but how he is used is where you have overlap.....
B) I am not seeing this lack of defense by Jaden Jones, he played all of 9 minutes, not 29 minutes.....he is realistically, the only true option to handle the ball and actually start the offense....Don't call me crazy, but other than Geo, there isn't another option to have someone who can generate his own shot, off the dribble beyond Geo and RHJ.....he needs to be turned loose and green-lighted ASAP....
C) if you are going to play 30 or more games, there are games where you are going to have to outscore or outshoot your opponents....and by any definition, Mulcahy with 9 shots and Caleb with 6, with Jones at 1, is just bad coaching.... I am OK with Hyatt at 10 to 12 shots a game, but there's no formula to offset 17 shots a game departing with Jacob Young and Mathis, and have Caleb and Mulcahy absorb that amount of shot attempts.
This isn't overly complicated, the shot distribution and minutes that don't have Jones and Hyatt at a combined 20 shots a game, is going to be a loss in any B1G game.
Beyond this year, assuming we green light Hyatt and Jones, this team can play with anyone in the country.....I know it doesn't seem like it, but Jones, Hyatt, Geo, RHJ and Cliff are bona-fide players...Mulcahy can play a role and I know Caleb is completely out of whack, but he is a 7th player.
For this to work and solve this year and next year, the equation has to involve developing Jones and playing Hyatt. For 2022 recruiting, I really like Simpson a LOT.....but even as much as I like Simpson, it would be completely unfair to Simpson or Jalen Miller to be 2 of your guards next year, both as 1st year players (assuming Miller is redshirting and not playing this year).
Finding 2 legitimate guards to help Simpson would be a necessity unless you are going to give Jaden Jones 28 guard/wing minutes....even if Jaden is successful and does well this year, I am just assuming 2 guards are still needed, because I can't in good faith count Mulcahy as a plus guard/shooter at guard on offense or on defense.
It is practically impossible to not find a guard or 2 that can step in for 2022, I would like to think RU might have to get their hands dirty like 80 to 85% of schools and start really competing for recruiting talent to keep things moving.....
Bac; Your writing like it is a game thread. First half we allowed them to out rebound us on the offensive glass and dropped 2 rebounds into their laps for layups. We cleaned that up in the second half. Harper got off to a slow offensive and defensive start and Johnson outplayed him early leading to DePaul being another team with a first half lead on us. Paul played his best game of the year. The foul shot disparity was hard to overcome and we almost did.
I really cannot understand the criticism with the second half . Started out great with Geo getting off right away and Paul hitting some shots and more importantly Cliff with the 3 beautiful flushes from passes from Geo and Paul. Then the key change in the game as Cliff picked up his third and fourth fouls. That was the main reason we lost.
Agee from the 12 to 8 minute mark gets 3 offensive rebounds and instead of going straight up for a layup or flush , instead put the ball on the floor and actually went away from the basket and towards the defender to allow his shot to get blocked . instead of 6 easy points to allow us to separate , gets fouls only once and made 1 shot so 1 out of 6 points. That was a killer. So disappointing for a grad transfer as I thought that was the part of the game we could have put some distance from them.
This Caleb / Jones dilemma has to get solved. Caleb has become an offensive liability but he plays defense. Jones hit a big shot early but when put back in for Caleb , got beat immediately on 2 back to back drives, where our 54-50 lead disappeared. But Jones is clearly our best shooter and to not run plays and screens for him when he is in the game is a bad job by Pike. In a game like this where the other team is hitting some ridiculous 3’s , you need as much offense as possible and the trade off of Jones impactful offense against his dismal defense , I think would make a coach lean offense but Pike went the other way. Now not sure if it is early or whether we do not have the players but our lockdown defense of the last 3 years has not surfaced yet , as we have now given up double digit 3’s in back to back games. Pike not choosing offense and thinking his defense is going to get it done has not materialized.
Otherwise, I thought it was a really decent second half and Ron and Geo tried to will us to a victory but came up short with Geo getting a good look for the tie. Not subbing Jones for Caleb with 30 seconds or just shy of that left when we fouled down one 71-70 was a bad job by Pike. He had to know that DePaul was going do everything to deny Ron , who just hit 2 threes , the ball as well as hound Geo , who hit a few of his own . Jones gives us the third option and Hyatt was the 4th option . Have Cliff run a screen for Jones for the baseline tying jumper but you cannot even dream that could happen because he is not in the game. Mistake in my opinion even though Geo got a good look.
Mag gave us some good first half minutes by left his feet and fouled a 3 pointer shooter in the second. Reiber did not as he gave up back to back rebounds on foul shots bacause he didn’t box out properly and got a bunny blocked at the rim instead of going up strong with 2 hands and flushing it. Hopefully he will learn.
Hyatt did a little of everything and hit a big 3 to tie it at 61 late.
Our defense is not up to snuff yet. Granted DePaul hit some tough threes but we were a step behind the screen to allow their looks. Give DePaul credit for hitting them but we gave them a little too much space.
Pike has gone to a new offense this year with 4 guys starting on the baseline and Ron coming up on a horns set and then allowing one on one isolation. Pike feels Ron can take anyone off that set but when Ron is off as he was in the first half , it looks bad. Worse than that , our other players stand around like statues and are not in a good offensive rebounding position . We have seen more isolation this year compared to any of Pike’s teams , and I do not think it is healthy even though Duke and Kentucky and other top teams do it all the time. I would go back to running Motion , pass and cut , screen and back screen to set up Jones and Geo and Ron and Aundre for shots .
Disappointing loss but the sky is falling threads are over the top. The Big 10 is down this year from the early results and what I have seen from about 6-7 teams. Purdue is the only team that looks elite and then it is a crapshoot. This team will get better . Pike has to figure out the rotation and some players have to play better , Paul ( he did tonight ) Caleb , Jones on defense, and Agee ( who could have finally shown us something but overdribbled away the layups ) .
I really cannot understand the criticism with the second half . Started out great with Geo getting off right away and Paul hitting some shots and more importantly Cliff with the 3 beautiful flushes from passes from Geo and Paul. Then the key change in the game as Cliff picked up his third and fourth fouls. That was the main reason we lost.
Agee from the 12 to 8 minute mark gets 3 offensive rebounds and instead of going straight up for a layup or flush , instead put the ball on the floor and actually went away from the basket and towards the defender to allow his shot to get blocked . instead of 6 easy points to allow us to separate , gets fouls only once and made 1 shot so 1 out of 6 points. That was a killer. So disappointing for a grad transfer as I thought that was the part of the game we could have put some distance from them.
This Caleb / Jones dilemma has to get solved. Caleb has become an offensive liability but he plays defense. Jones hit a big shot early but when put back in for Caleb , got beat immediately on 2 back to back drives, where our 54-50 lead disappeared. But Jones is clearly our best shooter and to not run plays and screens for him when he is in the game is a bad job by Pike. In a game like this where the other team is hitting some ridiculous 3’s , you need as much offense as possible and the trade off of Jones impactful offense against his dismal defense , I think would make a coach lean offense but Pike went the other way. Now not sure if it is early or whether we do not have the players but our lockdown defense of the last 3 years has not surfaced yet , as we have now given up double digit 3’s in back to back games. Pike not choosing offense and thinking his defense is going to get it done has not materialized.
Otherwise, I thought it was a really decent second half and Ron and Geo tried to will us to a victory but came up short with Geo getting a good look for the tie. Not subbing Jones for Caleb with 30 seconds or just shy of that left when we fouled down one 71-70 was a bad job by Pike. He had to know that DePaul was going do everything to deny Ron , who just hit 2 threes , the ball as well as hound Geo , who hit a few of his own . Jones gives us the third option and Hyatt was the 4th option . Have Cliff run a screen for Jones for the baseline tying jumper but you cannot even dream that could happen because he is not in the game. Mistake in my opinion even though Geo got a good look.
Mag gave us some good first half minutes by left his feet and fouled a 3 pointer shooter in the second. Reiber did not as he gave up back to back rebounds on foul shots bacause he didn’t box out properly and got a bunny blocked at the rim instead of going up strong with 2 hands and flushing it. Hopefully he will learn.
Hyatt did a little of everything and hit a big 3 to tie it at 61 late.
Our defense is not up to snuff yet. Granted DePaul hit some tough threes but we were a step behind the screen to allow their looks. Give DePaul credit for hitting them but we gave them a little too much space.
Pike has gone to a new offense this year with 4 guys starting on the baseline and Ron coming up on a horns set and then allowing one on one isolation. Pike feels Ron can take anyone off that set but when Ron is off as he was in the first half , it looks bad. Worse than that , our other players stand around like statues and are not in a good offensive rebounding position . We have seen more isolation this year compared to any of Pike’s teams , and I do not think it is healthy even though Duke and Kentucky and other top teams do it all the time. I would go back to running Motion , pass and cut , screen and back screen to set up Jones and Geo and Ron and Aundre for shots .
Disappointing loss but the sky is falling threads are over the top. The Big 10 is down this year from the early results and what I have seen from about 6-7 teams. Purdue is the only team that looks elite and then it is a crapshoot. This team will get better . Pike has to figure out the rotation and some players have to play better , Paul ( he did tonight ) Caleb , Jones on defense, and Agee ( who could have finally shown us something but overdribbled away the layups ) .
I am not worried about finding guards in the portal for next year. Fats Russell leaves URI and URI picks up Ismael El-Amin who appears to be a guard that is a willing defender and can score. That is a kind of guy that would have been a perfect fit right now.
There will be situations like that.
There will be situations like that.
That we wouldn't make the tournament
Yep...and he is saying he is gonna bump his posts?? Lol.
I don't believe that coach can't notice this, he doesn't want to. Pike is a man to man coach. Unfortunately, he hasn't recruited players that are athletic enough to play man to man. The sooner he realizes this, the better. With all of the length on this team, we would give people fits in a 2-3 zone.
Pikiell doesn't want guys who care about scoring, remember.
Unfortunately this isnt one of those i will wake up and feel better. Actually feel worse
There's got to be a morning after
If we can hold on through the night
We have a chance to find the sunshine
Let's keep on looking for the light
There's got to be a morning after
If we can hold on through the night
We have a chance to find the sunshine
Let's keep on looking for the light
All pre-season I was hearing how much this team was going to be incredible, surprise a lot of people, best team ever, etc, etc.
What was the theory behind all these claims I wonder?
What was the theory behind all these claims I wonder?
Maybe he was trying to o build them up and give them some confidence ? That’s all I got .
Most coaches usually tone down this kinda talk. I don’t know if I ever heard guys like saban or calhoun say “we are going to be really good .” And if they did say that , they probably were actually really good.
Yes we've had bad stretches before but this year is different. We have now played 4 games against inferior teams and I have not noticed any clear talent differential between our team and the competition. We have been behind in every single half and the amount of time that we've actually led in all 4 games can't be very much. What's the most we've led any team? Maybe 10-11 points? There doesn't appear to be one area of play that we excel in. We don't shoot very well, our ball movement is poor and no flow on offense, our defense has been awful at times , we're slow and not very athletic , and our rebounding is suspect.. ..I don't understand the lineups. Geo should be the lead guard , not Paul . Hyatt should start at the 4 , and Jones at the other guard position. Paul and Caleb should come off the bench. Caleb needs to sub for Ron ---he is just not a guard and has no outside shot. Bottom line is that Pike's lack of recruiting is really hurting this team. Can you imagine how bad this team would be if Geo and Ron had not returned?
I was left scratching my head quite often. McConnell, Mulcahy and Reiber in together, where does the offense come from that lineup?
Reiber is awful. He looked lost on defense and never went after rebounds. He is not a Big Ten player by any stretch.
Not “team players”. Here’s what you do; accumulate talent and figure it out. You’re the coach. That’s what Willard is doing with his team this year. Was he was worried about upsetting his older players? Instead we are worried about upsetting players who may not be big ten players
We were hungry the last few years because we hadn’t made it and had Jacob who was the hungriest on the team. Now, we have guys that are preparing for their future and are resting on their laurels.
Agree 100%. There are guys out there who would be legitimately cancerous to the locker room (Teddy Allen). But those guys are the minority. Skip over them but otherwise managing egos is part of the job of a coach.
This team is playing the way I feared they would after the losing JY and Myles and not having a true point guard. We lost really good defenders. Hyatt really needs to start and play a ton of minutes and take them from Caleb and Paul. And Jaden, despite the bad D needs to get more minutes.
You’re not worried about finding guards?!! Pike is currently filling out the roster with NEC type players. Im very worried
Honestly. I don't think we played a terrible game.
I think we showed a lot of good things in certain spots of the game.
The problem is DePaul was making some ridiculous and timely shots. They also getting some really lucky bounces.
The foul situation was absolutely ridiculous. 33-6. If we shot 15 free throws we win this game by at least 2 possessions but we didn't have the whistle on our side.
Hyatt needs to start over Caleb and Jones needs more minutes but otherwise I think we can turn things around.
If we can handle the games we're supposed to win and beat seton hall and Clemson our season will be on track for a ncaa bid
I think we showed a lot of good things in certain spots of the game.
The problem is DePaul was making some ridiculous and timely shots. They also getting some really lucky bounces.
The foul situation was absolutely ridiculous. 33-6. If we shot 15 free throws we win this game by at least 2 possessions but we didn't have the whistle on our side.
Hyatt needs to start over Caleb and Jones needs more minutes but otherwise I think we can turn things around.
If we can handle the games we're supposed to win and beat seton hall and Clemson our season will be on track for a ncaa bid
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