ADVERTISEMENT

Game 7: Florida State thoughts

bac2therac

Legend
Gold Member
Jul 30, 2001
227,492
153,643
113
55
Belle Mead NJ
First of I will start by saying, welcome back real college basketball and a real college atmosphere to Piscataway. Its been far too long. Last year we got a taste but it was still tough for the fans to come in with a mindset that RU could actually win a game. Tonight was different, one could see the strides that have been made and believe that RU could come out with a victory. And even if they did not win, we know things have changed Pikiell is a real coach and we are showing real improvement and he is giving us a puncher chance right now as we emerge from the death spiral of the last 3 RU coaches.

Tonight's game pretty confirmed some of the fears and affirmed some of the positives we have seen so far. Have I told you before, I hated that schedule to start the year....I thought it was too easy. RU finally got the test tonight, the measuring stick game where we could legitimately see how we stack up and how some of the younger players react and how far they have to go. Starting with Baker and Doucore. It was obvious that they had a litle catching up to do with the pace and awareness of the game playing FSU compared to playing a Bryant. For Doucoure a hard lesson as he picked up two quick fouls in the first half and then again at the start of the 2nd half. One can debate if one or more of those fouls was legitimate but the fact is he struggled to get untracked and to even get on the court. One of those fears I had about him to just coming in and replacing Gettys right away. Its going to take time. Tonight is a big learning lesson. I am sure he is going to get a big lesson as well in the next two games against top 15 opponents. No shame and he deserves a pass tonight. Ditto for Geo who showed a few signs but generally struggled tonight with his shot and his defense and got himself into foul trouble very early. Going up against longer athletic players made a difference. He has never faced this kind of competition before. It wil take him a while to adjust. Unfortunately for these two guys they have been thrust into a role of having to produce since the rest of the team has such a hard time scoring. We can hope that they can become more comfortable sooner than later but I have a feeling we will be dealing with ups and down and growing pains from them much of the year given what they are being forced to contribute. Baptism by fire.

Another concern that jumped out from me tonight was the offense....It is quite a struggle to score...and guys like Freeman and Corey did have times where they look really good on offense but its the consistency thing again, see they go through stretches were they tend to be a little wild and out of control.especially Corey. Trying to force this issue because they have to. This underscores that Pike is just not playing with a full team yet. RU is probably two players away, one being a legit 3 pt threat from being able to be expected to pull games like this out. Toward the end of the game as RU clawed back to down only 3, time and time again we would see either a turnover or a bad shot thrown up. Mike Williams for all his warriorness out there is most of the times against this kind of competition going to be overmatched. He struggled tonight, got limited minutes with foul trouble. So when your three leading players all upperclassmen are finding it tough sledding and seemingly getting worn down by games end you get the final result we got tonight. Certainly I cannot say Corey or Desaun played poorly tonight. Corey had 20, Freeman and 15 pts and 16 boards, its just that the margin of error is so slim for this team right now.

Getting to that last comment, that RU was in this game despite its offensive woes and turnovers, is a credit to how hard this team works and the values of work ethic that Pikiell instills in this team. Thats a big positive from tonight. We know this team will show up and work hard. They came out with energy right from the get go. Most impressive was how they handled adversity in the 2nd half when a few times FSU builit an 8 point lead and it looked like the game was on the brink, RU regained their composure and battled back by getting to their bread and butter which was defense. See Pike is doing a superlative job using defense to mask the defeciencies of this team on offense. However as we saw tonight it can only take you so far. Hitting buckets count, hitting 3s count. I thought RU played excellent D in the first half but in the 2nd half it became much more spotty. The missed shots took its toll on the D which was pourous at times. Now Walker simply took over for FSU in the 2nd half. RU held Mann in check and got him into foul trouble but no answer for Walker as he was often just strolling to the hoop.

Another huge..and this is huge....Eugene's game tonight, he was pretty unstoppable in the second half...9-11 for 22 points, 4-5 ft..we have seen glimpses of it this season but tonight...this was against Florida State, that is what makes his game so monumental for him. He brought it to the next level and took the next step against a very good team with a bunch of gazelles. IF and its a big IF, if he can start being consistent with these games, its really will take the pressure off some of the other guys to have to come up big every night. I think Eugene is flying past Thiam tonight who struggled and seemed lost in the offense. Not sure we should start Eugene yet but I do think his playing time is going to really start increasing as he finds himself.

For the record I was impressed by FSU...better than I thought they would be. I see this team being like a 5th place type team in the Big 10 so I expect RU to be able to compete with most of its league schedule save for Minn, MSU, and Purdue. So if you are still reading after this long winded post, what we have is a team that will give its all and needs to give its all but perhaps maybe we need to accept it is what it is right now and that is desperately needed another player or two. I would say expectations of a 500 season and maytbe 5-6 wins in league are on target but anything more than that might be pushing it. I could very well see this type of movie playing out alot this season. Close hard fought effort but no cigar. But that is okay. Program is taking steps of improvement, it may not be ready to take the giant steps that give everyone the warm fuzzies and land them in post season but at the very least its make watching hoops at the RAC enjoyable again and have relit the flame of hope in the fanbase
 
FSU is a very quick team and will be in the top 3rd of the ACC IMO
They get their 7'4'' guy back in a few games and will be very potent.

Omoruyi scored 22 points ...something Gettys rarely did....plus 5 rebs, 1 asst, 1 steal
We out rebounded FSU 41-36 overall
I didnt miss Gettys at all(other than I REALLY like the guy)

Baker was a big (but predictable)disappointment to me. Like the announcer said. GEO has great potential but he played like a freshman tonight

One thing we DO have is,,,EXCELLENT "D"...we were impressive at times

Local sports news in orlando has featured the RU/FSU game and had absolutely glowing comments.
The B10 hasnt done so well so far
We earned some respect tonight.
 
Bac- A lot of good points. As I posted elsewhere, we are thin at guard with Souf unable to contribute. Corey can’t play 36 minutes against a team with relentless full court pressure. I think Mike Williams is not 100%,which really hurts. Eugene was terrific. Shaq had a poor game after showing a lot of promise the past couple games. Geo looked a little like a deer in the headlights, but he will earn from this. It’s amazing we lost by only 5 when Geo and Mike didn’t contribute much. I thought Thiam played too tentatively tonight. We really need him to play with the confidence he showed in the early (easy) non-conference games. But, the bottom line is the glass is half full, not half empty. The future is brighter than it’s been in a while.
 
We were at home with an amped crowd and lost to a middle of the road P5 school with guys out.

Go ahead and take some positives. In the end I don't know how this game gives you any confidence against the top 9 schools in the B1G.

This game showed the warts.

The biggest wart is the lack of depth. There is a gaping hole of 30 minutes that no one is capable of filing. Our backup point guard play was atrocious and our starting 3 played 35 minutes and got 2 shots off despite facing a ton of zone.
 
I will have more tomorrow, if I have time.

Bac hits a lot of excellent points, and I agree with most of them

I do want to talk about Thiam, a little. I think RU-ROCS said it best: Thiam was a little tentative against FSU - but only on offense. I think he - like most of the other RU players, except Omoruyi, and a little bit of Freeman - were really bothered by the combination of length and athleticism of the FSU players. That is what seemed to cause Thiam's tentativeness on offense ... to the point that when on switches #2 ended up covering him Thiam was slow to recognize that #2 did not have the length, but still hesitated on his outside shot as #2 rotated over.

BUT ... on Thiam ... I have to say that he was really good on defense. He played #11 most of the time - and completely shut him down. Thiam actually made it through and over picks better than Sanders (and I thought Sanders played really good defense for the 1st 30 minutes, and even okay defense against #2, but was screened a lot, in the last 10 minutes of the game and did not get quick enough help - mainly Freeman) in this game. And though he had a really weird stat line that looked empty (1 turnover, 1 rebound, 1 made 3 and 1 missed 3), I thought his game against FSU was one where he played WAY better than the surface stats indicated.

Just my 2 cents.
 
We were at home with an amped crowd and lost to a middle of the road P5 school with guys out.

Go ahead and take some positives. In the end I don't know how this game gives you any confidence against the top 9 schools in the B1G.

This game showed the warts.

The biggest wart is the lack of depth. There is a gaping hole of 30 minutes that no one is capable of filing. Our backup point guard play was atrocious and our starting 3 played 35 minutes and got 2 shots off despite facing a ton of zone.

No guarantees, but the assumption is that true freshman Geo and Mamadou will grow considerably from this game by later in the season. Also, Williams hopefully gets 100% healthy and Thiam plays more assertively. Will all of that definitely happen, who knows. But it could. I agree that Souf’s play really hurts, and will continue to cost RU in conference play.
 
I will have more tomorrow, if I have time.

Bac hits a lot of excellent points, and I agree with most of them

I do want to talk about Thiam, a little. I think RU-ROCS said it best: Thiam was a little tentative against FSU - but only on offense. I think he - like most of the other RU players, except Omoruyi, and a little bit of Freeman - were really bothered by the combination of length and athleticism of the FSU players. That is what seemed to cause Thiam's tentativeness on offense ... to the point that when on switches #2 ended up covering him Thiam was slow to recognize that #2 did not have the length, but still hesitated on his outside shot as #2 rotated over.

BUT ... on Thiam ... I have to say that he was really good on defense. He played #11 most of the time - and completely shut him down. Thiam actually made it through and over picks better than Sanders (and I thought Sanders played really good defense for the 1st 30 minutes, and even okay defense against #2, but was screened a lot, in the last 10 minutes of the game and did not get quick enough help - mainly Freeman) in this game. And though he had a really weird stat line that looked empty (1 turnover, 1 rebound, 1 made 3 and 1 missed 3), I thought his game against FSU was one where he played WAY better than the surface stats indicated.

Just my 2 cents.

Very good points on Thiam. He played very well on Defense and is surprisingly quick playing smaller players on the perimeter.
 
We were at home with an amped crowd and lost to a middle of the road P5 school with guys out.

Go ahead and take some positives. In the end I don't know how this game gives you any confidence against the top 9 schools in the B1G.

This game showed the warts.

The biggest wart is the lack of depth. There is a gaping hole of 30 minutes that no one is capable of filing. Our backup point guard play was atrocious and our starting 3 played 35 minutes and got 2 shots off despite facing a ton of zone.



I do agree with this somewhat. Yes our warts mainly offense and our lack of depth which hurts all around. Mensah is not for this team IMO and a total miss and we will pay for it by riding the other 3 guards. Work in progress.

But wouldnt you say if the team brings this energy to most games and the crowd is into it that they can win some games in league...Northwestern is proving to be shaky right now. Iowa is a mess, Nebby is awful and Indiana/Illinois/OSU all look beatable

Look I would not be surprised to see RU get waxed by 20 to Minn and MSU the next week but beyond Purdue there is no one else to fear in the league. FSU might be a 4/5. I do get what you are saying, jacked crowd, back and forth game and we couldnt pull it out...you see the same movie over and over again...and yes that could happen....but expectations my friend, what are your expectations...if they are to make post season then you will be disappointed
 
We were at home with an amped crowd and lost to a middle of the road P5 school with guys out.

Go ahead and take some positives. In the end I don't know how this game gives you any confidence against the top 9 schools in the B1G.

This game showed the warts.

The biggest wart is the lack of depth. There is a gaping hole of 30 minutes that no one is capable of filing. Our backup point guard play was atrocious and our starting 3 played 35 minutes and got 2 shots off despite facing a ton of zone.
B1G 10 is weak. We can beat and contend with: Indiana; Illinois; Nebraska; Iowa; Ohio State. Thus that leaves 8 teams for which we can compete with Northwestern and Wisconsin (did not say defeat). The other 6 will be tough needless to say; Michigan State (impossible); Purdue; Minnesota; Maryland; Penn State and Michigan.

As of now, I envision only 6 B1G 10 squads making the dance for which conferences that are on the uptick (SEC; AAC and Big East) will steal bids from the under-achieving B1G 10.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bac2therac
We were at home with an amped crowd and lost to a middle of the road P5 school with guys out.

Go ahead and take some positives. In the end I don't know how this game gives you any confidence against the top 9 schools in the B1G.

This game showed the warts.

The biggest wart is the lack of depth. There is a gaping hole of 30 minutes that no one is capable of filing. Our backup point guard play was atrocious and our starting 3 played 35 minutes and got 2 shots off despite facing a ton of zone.

Several items:

1) FSU showed a lot better combination of athleticism and length than I expected - and that did bother Thiam - and other RU players.

2) FSU did not play a "ton of zone." FSU DID play some zone, a weird amorphous zone I was having trouble identifying what it was in the 2nd half ... but less than half the time in the 2nd half. I suspect it was a form of the Chaney/Stringer match-up zone, where a defender follows the cutter through the zone, making it look a little like a man to man - though it is not. This zone really confused RU - not just Thiam. Baker and Sanders both had real difficulty reading this zone, and getting the ball to the right spots at the right time. I counted at least 3 times, maybe 4, where Baker or Sanders never even got the ball to a REALLY wide open Thiam. And when they did get the ball to him, mostly it was a little late, allowing an FSU defender to get a good run-out at Thiam.

3) That said, Thiam WAS tentative offensively. And had 2 separate occasions he SHOULD have pulled the trigger on the 3, when #2 was running out on him (#2 is quick, but not that tall, as opposed to many of the other FSU players who showed themselves to be both quick and tall).

4) I agree RU has only 3 usable guards right now: Sanders, Baker and Williams. When Baker got in foul trouble, and Mensah was poor (though he got a truly phantom call defending that 3-pointer - it was not a foul), and Williams was not that great either, Pikiell was forced to go with just 1 guard, Sanders, with Thiam, Omoruyi, Freeman and either Doorson or Doucore. This is a problem - but Baker will be better in other games, masking this a little.

5) I think you are being too negative. The game played out essentially as is predictable: RU continues to show great energy, very good defense for the most part, good rebounding ... and inconsistent offense. From before the season started most fans on this Board knew RU was at least ONE shooter short of being able to challenge for the top half of the Big Ten. This game would seem to confirm this. BUT ... in games where RU gets hot from 3 - which will happen occasionally - RU will be a VERY tough out, and would have a chance to win any of those games, except maybe against one of the top 3-4 Big Ten teams. And if you lack confidence in this team against the top 9 teams in the Big Ten, so what? RU plays 6 games against the 4 teams in the Big Ten expected to be in the bottom 5 of the league along with RU. And even against the middle of the Big Ten it would not be totally unreasonable to hope (maybe not expect, but hope) RU might earn 1 or 2 upsets. Since RU seems unlikely to win ALL 6 games against the bottom 5 Big Ten teams (including itself), 4 wins plus 2 upsets - which are possible, or 5 wins plus 1 upset, would equal a 6-12 Big ten record - and 16 or 17 wins overall in the regular season. Which would show good progress (last year RU showed progress, but only won 3 Big ten games).
 
The turning point of the game was when Deshawn was going to the hoop I think intending to dunk, and his hammy went into spasm. We were up 3 going to be 5, with an energized RAC, and instead they went on an 11-0 run to go up 8. We fought back to get it one possession and the effort was superb but losing Deshawn hurt the most. He had 15 points/14 Rebounds at that point and Eugene was dominating driving to the hole. Despite FSU's size we were dominating in the paint. That little stretch coupled with some turnovers was the difference between a win and a loss.

So so many positives tonight starting with Eugene( Kyk can apologize to him); Deshawn engaged early and a monster until he got hurt; Corey for most of the night scoring , assisting , Rebounding. Having the real RAC back was huge tonite and will be paying winning dividends in the near future. The suffocating defense for most of the night until the Walker kid went nuts beating Corey and our shot blockers not sending his shot back.
Let me say something regarding Corey. People are going to blame his defense on Walker but Corey cannot be asked to run the offense, be a primary scorer , and guard the other team's best guard while playing 36 minutes a night. We caught a bad break with Geo in foul trouble and fouling out, so the only move I might have made was to switch Mike on Walker to give Corey a break. Unfortunately, Souf was not an Answer. It appeared Corey did not have his normal defensive energy because of the excess minutes that ended up costing us but with just a little tweek, might have made the difference down the stretch.

Florida State was good, very athletic and Hamilton kept on rotating bodies in and out , with no drop off in talent . I think the most positive thing one can take away from tonight is that we got almost nothing from our freshman, Geo and Duke , and it was still a 1 possession game with a minute and a half to go. If either one stayed out of foul trouble and gave us a quarter of what they have given in the first 6 games, we likely win.

One final thought, that was a terrific college basketball game in late November in a tremendous RAC environment that had almost all of the fans that I spoke to buzzing and excited about our team. Kudos to the fans, the students and especially Coach Pike to put a team that can really compete on the floor only 1and a half years from being non competitive
 
First of I will start by saying, welcome back real college basketball and a real college atmosphere to Piscataway. Its been far too long. Last year we got a taste but it was still tough for the fans to come in with a mindset that RU could actually win a game. Tonight was different, one could see the strides that have been made and believe that RU could come out with a victory. And even if they did not win, we know things have changed Pikiell is a real coach and we are showing real improvement and he is giving us a puncher chance right now as we emerge from the death spiral of the last 3 RU coaches.

Tonight's game pretty confirmed some of the fears and affirmed some of the positives we have seen so far. Have I told you before, I hated that schedule to start the year....I thought it was too easy. RU finally got the test tonight, the measuring stick game where we could legitimately see how we stack up and how some of the younger players react and how far they have to go. Starting with Baker and Doucore. It was obvious that they had a litle catching up to do with the pace and awareness of the game playing FSU compared to playing a Bryant. For Doucoure a hard lesson as he picked up two quick fouls in the first half and then again at the start of the 2nd half. One can debate if one or more of those fouls was legitimate but the fact is he struggled to get untracked and to even get on the court. One of those fears I had about him to just coming in and replacing Gettys right away. Its going to take time. Tonight is a big learning lesson. I am sure he is going to get a big lesson as well in the next two games against top 15 opponents. No shame and he deserves a pass tonight. Ditto for Geo who showed a few signs but generally struggled tonight with his shot and his defense and got himself into foul trouble very early. Going up against longer athletic players made a difference. He has never faced this kind of competition before. It wil take him a while to adjust. Unfortunately for these two guys they have been thrust into a role of having to produce since the rest of the team has such a hard time scoring. We can hope that they can become more comfortable sooner than later but I have a feeling we will be dealing with ups and down and growing pains from them much of the year given what they are being forced to contribute. Baptism by fire.

Another concern that jumped out from me tonight was the offense....It is quite a struggle to score...and guys like Freeman and Corey did have times where they look really good on offense but its the consistency thing again, see they go through stretches were they tend to be a little wild and out of control.especially Corey. Trying to force this issue because they have to. This underscores that Pike is just not playing with a full team yet. RU is probably two players away, one being a legit 3 pt threat from being able to be expected to pull games like this out. Toward the end of the game as RU clawed back to down only 3, time and time again we would see either a turnover or a bad shot thrown up. Mike Williams for all his warriorness out there is most of the times against this kind of competition going to be overmatched. He struggled tonight, got limited minutes with foul trouble. So when your three leading players all upperclassmen are finding it tough sledding and seemingly getting worn down by games end you get the final result we got tonight. Certainly I cannot say Corey or Desaun played poorly tonight. Corey had 20, Freeman and 15 pts and 16 boards, its just that the margin of error is so slim for this team right now.

Getting to that last comment, that RU was in this game despite its offensive woes and turnovers, is a credit to how hard this team works and the values of work ethic that Pikiell instills in this team. Thats a big positive from tonight. We know this team will show up and work hard. They came out with energy right from the get go. Most impressive was how they handled adversity in the 2nd half when a few times FSU builit an 8 point lead and it looked like the game was on the brink, RU regained their composure and battled back by getting to their bread and butter which was defense. See Pike is doing a superlative job using defense to mask the defeciencies of this team on offense. However as we saw tonight it can only take you so far. Hitting buckets count, hitting 3s count. I thought RU played excellent D in the first half but in the 2nd half it became much more spotty. The missed shots took its toll on the D which was pourous at times. Now Walker simply took over for FSU in the 2nd half. RU held Mann in check and got him into foul trouble but no answer for Walker as he was often just strolling to the hoop.

Another huge..and this is huge....Eugene's game tonight, he was pretty unstoppable in the second half...9-11 for 22 points, 4-5 ft..we have seen glimpses of it this season but tonight...this was against Florida State, that is what makes his game so monumental for him. He brought it to the next level and took the next step against a very good team with a bunch of gazelles. IF and its a big IF, if he can start being consistent with these games, its really will take the pressure off some of the other guys to have to come up big every night. I think Eugene is flying past Thiam tonight who struggled and seemed lost in the offense. Not sure we should start Eugene yet but I do think his playing time is going to really start increasing as he finds himself.

For the record I was impressed by FSU...better than I thought they would be. I see this team being like a 5th place type team in the Big 10 so I expect RU to be able to compete with most of its league schedule save for Minn, MSU, and Purdue. So if you are still reading after this long winded post, what we have is a team that will give its all and needs to give its all but perhaps maybe we need to accept it is what it is right now and that is desperately needed another player or two. I would say expectations of a 500 season and maytbe 5-6 wins in league are on target but anything more than that might be pushing it. I could very well see this type of movie playing out alot this season. Close hard fought effort but no cigar. But that is okay. Program is taking steps of improvement, it may not be ready to take the giant steps that give everyone the warm fuzzies and land them in post season but at the very least its make watching hoops at the RAC enjoyable again and have relit the flame of hope in the fanbase
Very good post BAC, but where we lost this game IMO is when Freeman went out with that injury. We were up 3 I believe at that time and with Freeman out, FSU went on that 8 or 9-0 run and we were behind the eight ball the rest of the way. That's when Corey and Geo really started to force things and had multiple turnovers. The whole team became discombobulated. Geo and Doucore with have similar struggles as we move forward, but I still expect them to grow a lot into their roles.

Eugene was a monster tonight. He was fearless and as you stated if he can be consistent like this we can surprise a few teams in the B1G and steal a win or two.

Lastly: you have to hand it to Vegas prognosticators. They had us plus 5 and wouldn't you know it, FSU beat us exactly by five.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BillyC80
The difference is Souf. We need another guard desperately. Can't play with only three capable guards when one gets into foul trouble. If we had a capable 4th guard last night we win.
 
This is the type of game I worried about Geo being the point guard. With constant pressure on him having to handle the ball, it took a toll on him. I think it was mental fatigue more than physical with Geo.

I will harp on it forever, but we still need a legit speed point guard, especially for games like this.

Also a lack of a true shot blocker inside hurt us, as FSU got many points going to the basket.

But with that said, even in a loss, it was a fun game to watch. There was an excitement to the atmosphere even though the alum didn't come out in force. The students did a great job last night.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BillyC80
We were at home with an amped crowd and lost to a middle of the road P5 school with guys out.

Go ahead and take some positives. In the end I don't know how this game gives you any confidence against the top 9 schools in the B1G.

This game showed the warts.

The biggest wart is the lack of depth. There is a gaping hole of 30 minutes that no one is capable of filing. Our backup point guard play was atrocious and our starting 3 played 35 minutes and got 2 shots off despite facing a ton of zone.

As I’ve said before, we don’t have the horses yet to expect more than 3 to 5 conference wins. I agree with your post but it doesn’t disappoint me. What’s obvious is that Pike knows how to coach and he has the program on track. I’ve waited a few decades, I can wait another couple of years until he really starts getting the program going.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BillyC80
Just perusing quickly so sorry if it has been mentioned that Mulcahy was at the game w. one of his Gill St. Bernard's teammates. They sat 2/3 rows behind the end of the RU bench on the aisle. My son knows Paul and spotted him 2 mins after I turned on ESPNU
 
FSU was not a middle of the Road P5 team. They are a Tourney Team with Sweet 16 potential. Gio will get better. Williams has to play better. No excuses any more and he deserves as much scrutiny as every other player. Omoruyi looks like ready to burst out. B1G is not that great. Pike has us ready to play every night. RAC was rocking. We can and will win our fair share of games.
 
I suppose if we take foul problems out of the equation our lack of depth would have been less of an issue. I kept waiting for Mike Williams to have an impact on the game and either a 3 didn't go down or he was on the bench.

If no foul trouble Geo and Mike take 20 of the 35 minutes from Issa
 
  • Like
Reactions: BillyC80
I suppose if we take foul problems out of the equation our lack of depth would have been less of an issue. I kept waiting for Mike Williams to have an impact on the game and either a 3 didn't go down or he was on the bench.

If no foul trouble Geo and Mike take 20 of the 35 minutes from Issa

I was disappointed in Mike's two first half fouls.... turnover, then frustration foul.. twice. Seniors can't do that in big games - limited him all game, and was compounded when Geo got in foul trouble, forcing us to use Souf more. Geo and Duke both had foul trouble games, but it was also their first real exposure to "big time" college basketball. Mike's been here before, and he had an off night.
 
Bac

Great stuff

One exception I'll take is offense

We adored in the 70s with ZERO fast break points. Everything we scored was in the half court. That was a very good offensive game...and one that could have been OUTSTANDING if a couple more three went that were wide open looks

Our fast break points will come

If we can find a way to score in the 70s on a regular basis...that's enough

Also, I am beyond excited that we found a way to score against the zone. Eugene was huge at the high post. With some experience, we will be able to work inside out even more and get more efficient

Very encouraged ...even though bummed out
 
Bac

Great stuff

One exception I'll take is offense

We adored in the 70s with ZERO fast break points. Everything we scored was in the half court. That was a very good offensive game...and one that could have been OUTSTANDING if a couple more three went that were wide open looks

Our fast break points will come

If we can find a way to score in the 70s on a regular basis...that's enough

Also, I am beyond excited that we found a way to score against the zone. Eugene was huge at the high post. With some experience, we will be able to work inside out even more and get more efficient

Very encouraged ...even though bummed out
Agree...we shot 40% from the floor and 80% from the line
I would have signed up for that in a heartbeat
If we kept up the 3pt shooting from the 1st half we were gold
Stinks that we got a really good offensive performance and the defense lapses in the 2nd half
 
First of I will start by saying, welcome back real college basketball and a real college atmosphere to Piscataway. Its been far too long. Last year we got a taste but it was still tough for the fans to come in with a mindset that RU could actually win a game. Tonight was different, one could see the strides that have been made and believe that RU could come out with a victory. And even if they did not win, we know things have changed Pikiell is a real coach and we are showing real improvement and he is giving us a puncher chance right now as we emerge from the death spiral of the last 3 RU coaches.

Tonight's game pretty confirmed some of the fears and affirmed some of the positives we have seen so far. Have I told you before, I hated that schedule to start the year....I thought it was too easy. RU finally got the test tonight, the measuring stick game where we could legitimately see how we stack up and how some of the younger players react and how far they have to go. Starting with Baker and Doucore. It was obvious that they had a litle catching up to do with the pace and awareness of the game playing FSU compared to playing a Bryant. For Doucoure a hard lesson as he picked up two quick fouls in the first half and then again at the start of the 2nd half. One can debate if one or more of those fouls was legitimate but the fact is he struggled to get untracked and to even get on the court. One of those fears I had about him to just coming in and replacing Gettys right away. Its going to take time. Tonight is a big learning lesson. I am sure he is going to get a big lesson as well in the next two games against top 15 opponents. No shame and he deserves a pass tonight. Ditto for Geo who showed a few signs but generally struggled tonight with his shot and his defense and got himself into foul trouble very early. Going up against longer athletic players made a difference. He has never faced this kind of competition before. It wil take him a while to adjust. Unfortunately for these two guys they have been thrust into a role of having to produce since the rest of the team has such a hard time scoring. We can hope that they can become more comfortable sooner than later but I have a feeling we will be dealing with ups and down and growing pains from them much of the year given what they are being forced to contribute. Baptism by fire.

Another concern that jumped out from me tonight was the offense....It is quite a struggle to score...and guys like Freeman and Corey did have times where they look really good on offense but its the consistency thing again, see they go through stretches were they tend to be a little wild and out of control.especially Corey. Trying to force this issue because they have to. This underscores that Pike is just not playing with a full team yet. RU is probably two players away, one being a legit 3 pt threat from being able to be expected to pull games like this out. Toward the end of the game as RU clawed back to down only 3, time and time again we would see either a turnover or a bad shot thrown up. Mike Williams for all his warriorness out there is most of the times against this kind of competition going to be overmatched. He struggled tonight, got limited minutes with foul trouble. So when your three leading players all upperclassmen are finding it tough sledding and seemingly getting worn down by games end you get the final result we got tonight. Certainly I cannot say Corey or Desaun played poorly tonight. Corey had 20, Freeman and 15 pts and 16 boards, its just that the margin of error is so slim for this team right now.

Getting to that last comment, that RU was in this game despite its offensive woes and turnovers, is a credit to how hard this team works and the values of work ethic that Pikiell instills in this team. Thats a big positive from tonight. We know this team will show up and work hard. They came out with energy right from the get go. Most impressive was how they handled adversity in the 2nd half when a few times FSU builit an 8 point lead and it looked like the game was on the brink, RU regained their composure and battled back by getting to their bread and butter which was defense. See Pike is doing a superlative job using defense to mask the defeciencies of this team on offense. However as we saw tonight it can only take you so far. Hitting buckets count, hitting 3s count. I thought RU played excellent D in the first half but in the 2nd half it became much more spotty. The missed shots took its toll on the D which was pourous at times. Now Walker simply took over for FSU in the 2nd half. RU held Mann in check and got him into foul trouble but no answer for Walker as he was often just strolling to the hoop.

Another huge..and this is huge....Eugene's game tonight, he was pretty unstoppable in the second half...9-11 for 22 points, 4-5 ft..we have seen glimpses of it this season but tonight...this was against Florida State, that is what makes his game so monumental for him. He brought it to the next level and took the next step against a very good team with a bunch of gazelles. IF and its a big IF, if he can start being consistent with these games, its really will take the pressure off some of the other guys to have to come up big every night. I think Eugene is flying past Thiam tonight who struggled and seemed lost in the offense. Not sure we should start Eugene yet but I do think his playing time is going to really start increasing as he finds himself.

For the record I was impressed by FSU...better than I thought they would be. I see this team being like a 5th place type team in the Big 10 so I expect RU to be able to compete with most of its league schedule save for Minn, MSU, and Purdue. So if you are still reading after this long winded post, what we have is a team that will give its all and needs to give its all but perhaps maybe we need to accept it is what it is right now and that is desperately needed another player or two. I would say expectations of a 500 season and maytbe 5-6 wins in league are on target but anything more than that might be pushing it. I could very well see this type of movie playing out alot this season. Close hard fought effort but no cigar. But that is okay. Program is taking steps of improvement, it may not be ready to take the giant steps that give everyone the warm fuzzies and land them in post season but at the very least its make watching hoops at the RAC enjoyable again and have relit the flame of hope in the fanbase
BAC spot on comments citing what happened in the game and issues that will impact the team for the rest of the season.The performance of Eugene was outstanding because he was one of the few Rutgers players who could drive to the basket and finish while other players had their shots blocked.

The impact of fouling is a issue to watch going forward .Rutgers bench is thin especially in the backcourt .Sanders and Baker separately got two fouls within the first 4 minutes of the last two games and it really had a impact on the outcome of the Florida State game.
 
The difference is Souf. We need another guard desperately. Can't play with only three capable guards when one gets into foul trouble. If we had a capable 4th guard last night we win.

Yup. Right now we're basically playing with 9 scholarship guys. Kiss, Johnson, Bullock, and Mensah are giving us nothing, all for different reasons. A sit-out transfer, a redshirt, a guy on scholarship who hasn't played a single minute, and a guy on scholarship who plays but is clearly not B1G-caliber. You can live with two of those, maybe three. But all four is too much.

Next year Mathis, Harper, and Carter should all be ready to contribute right away, and the probability of at least one of Sanders/Bullock/Mensah leaving the program and opening up another scholarship is just about 100%. If Pikiell can bring in a grad transfer or another ready-to-play freshman then that will help too. Obviously if there's a sit-out transfer that will make a big impact for the 2019-20 season then that's worth exploring too.
 
The difference is Souf. We need another guard desperately. Can't play with only three capable guards when one gets into foul trouble. If we had a capable 4th guard last night we win.
I think he will get better with time and his 10 minutes will be all about a tough defense and distribution. I think the whole team looks far far ahead of where they were last year at this time - without a doubt. Florida State has some real talent, ncaa quarterfinals talent after they get their kinks out, and while both teams are finding themselves, it was a very good measure of what we can expect.
 
I think he will get better with time and his 10 minutes will be all about a tough defense and distribution. I think the whole team looks far far ahead of where they were last year at this time - without a doubt. Florida State has some real talent, ncaa quarterfinals talent after they get their kinks out, and while both teams are finding themselves, it was a very good measure of what we can expect.

Unfortunately teams are going to see him enter the game and immediately apply pressure on defense and will go directly at him on offense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scarlet Shack
Unfortunately teams are going to see him enter the game and immediately apply pressure on defense and will go directly at him on offense.

He entered the game and immediately got the ball taken from him, completely unaware of the FSU player behind him. Then he compounded that with a foul four seconds later. He also missed the front end of a 1-and-1 later in the game when he got fouled. His passes didn't seem to be in great spots where a player could catch it and go immediately (Corey also has this problem).

The "he needs time" argument seems wrong. How much is a 23-year-old JUCO transfer going to improve during the season? It's really hard to see him being a positive on-court contributor here. Maybe he's such a leader off the court that the coaching staff thinks he's a net positive, but I kind of lump him in with Bullock where I'll be a little disappointed if we can't get more contributions from that scholarship next season.
 
FSU is middle of the pack? Not right now. I expect them to be pretty solid in their conference. Their coach has a lot of players that he gives time to. And they can produce.

At times, I think Omoyuri will move to the post with Freeman.

What a great game for the kid. I am happy for the knight.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Loyal-Son
Good analysis all around but in my opinion it's simple: we don't have the perimeter threats we need to be an NCAA team. Walker had 3 threes in a row last night (granted one was the crappy foul call but still) that turned the game. not only do you need that 3 point shot to get out of a deficit, you need it to stem the tide when the other team is on a roll.

Unfortunately that can't change once a season starts.

We are a good team except for this. And it's not an option--its a necessity.
 
Good analysis all around but in my opinion it's simple: we don't have the perimeter threats we need to be an NCAA team. Walker had 3 threes in a row last night (granted one was the crappy foul call but still) that turned the game. not only do you need that 3 point shot to get out of a deficit, you need it to stem the tide when the other team is on a roll.

Unfortunately that can't change once a season starts.

We are a good team except for this. And it's not an option--its a necessity.

I agree.

I will say that RU does have 3 players, at least, who could, in any given game, get hot from 3, and turn the game for RU: Williams, Baker and Thiam. With a little luck (and RU will need some), 1 or 2 of those will be hot in a game RU has a better chance of winning, and help carry RU to a victory. We have all seen players - for RU and on other teams - get hot in a game where the team falls short, making what might have been a 20 point loss a 4-5 point loss (See: Johnson, Nigel, in at least 2 games in 2016-2017 season). What RU will need is for 1 or 2 of those 3 shooters to get hot while other aspects of the RU team are working well, in a game that is the difference between a 5-8 point loss, and a 5-8 point win ... like FSU. For example, had Williams been hotter - and hit his 2 wide open 3's in the 2nd half (which he HAS done in some games), RU has a great chance to win the FSU game. You need a little luck sometimes, when your talent is not terribly consistent.
 
Bac, Fig, or whoever can give a good answer:

Why isn't Dadika getting minutes over Mensah?
 
Jelly, I actually think Corey's shot from the arc has looked better of late, and he passed up at least 2 open looks last night that I would have liked to see him take.
 
Bac, Fig, or whoever can give a good answer:

Why isn't Dadika getting minutes over Mensah?

Williams will take the minutes before Dadika.

If I am Pikiell and I think there is a confidence element to mensah's struggles ....provided he is working hard in practice I insert him in the starting lineup vs. FDU and NJIT and give him a solid 15 minutes in those games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BillyC80
I agree.

I will say that RU does have 3 players, at least, who could, in any given game, get hot from 3, and turn the game for RU: Williams, Baker and Thiam. With a little luck (and RU will need some), 1 or 2 of those will be hot in a game RU has a better chance of winning, and help carry RU to a victory. We have all seen players - for RU and on other teams - get hot in a game where the team falls short, making what might have been a 20 point loss a 4-5 point loss (See: Johnson, Nigel, in at least 2 games in 2016-2017 season). What RU will need is for 1 or 2 of those 3 shooters to get hot while other aspects of the RU team are working well, in a game that is the difference between a 5-8 point loss, and a 5-8 point win ... like FSU. For example, had Williams been hotter - and hit his 2 wide open 3's in the 2nd half (which he HAS done in some games), RU has a great chance to win the FSU game. You need a little luck sometimes, when your talent is not terribly consistent.

I remember looking up at the scoreboard in the middle of the 1st half and i believe we were 3-5 from 3 and up by 2 points. I said we are down 4 if we are 1-5 from 3.

We reverted to the mean and the game finished where it was supposed to finish.

I have an issue including Thiam with Baker and Williams. He is not going to get the opportunities vs. most teams to get shots off.
 
Williams will take the minutes before Dadika.

If I am Pikiell and I think there is a confidence element to mensah's struggles ....provided he is working hard in practice I insert him in the starting lineup vs. FDU and NJIT and give him a solid 15 minutes in those games.

Well I assume what we need is more minutes at the point which is why I suggested Dadika over Mike Williams. As for your second comment, I suppose that's good you don't want to give up on Mensah. Hopefully he'll live up to the potential that Pikiell sees in him.
 
Jelly, I actually think Corey's shot from the arc has looked better of late, and he passed up at least 2 open looks last night that I would have liked to see him take.

I noticed that also: No more of those awful set-shots from 3 we saw in the 1st 3-4 games. His 3-point tries were all JUMP shots this game ... thank goodness.

Also, though it did not happen in the 2nd half i do not think, I noticed that in the FIRST half, Sanders drove to the basket FOUR times using his left - and scored twice doing so. He does that more often, and it helps his ame a lot.

Another stray comment about Sanders in the FSU game: I do not blame him for getting beaten by Walker in the last 10 minutes of the game. First, Sanders had to play 36 minutes, and I thought he DID maintain his intensity throughout (he did make 3 bad turnovers, but otherwise I thought played quite well). Second, other than the back to back 3's by Walker FSU was using a high screen, with the center or PF screening at the top of the key, at the 3-point line. Sanders is supposed to get help if Walker drives all the way to the basket. But Freeman (who was the primary defender of the screener in the last 6-8 minutes of the game), was generally too slow cutting off Walker, allowing Walker to get deep penetration into the lane for lay-ups or fouls. I do NOT think that is Sanders' fault, though I could be wrong.

One stray thought on Freeman: He was AMAZING in the 1st half - his best half of basketball this season, and vintage Freeman. Even before his cramps, though, he missed a LOT of chippies in the 2nd half, and was just 1-9 FG in the 2nd half, plus was slwo with his help defense on Walker off screens. He still had a good game, but what looked like it might be a great game turned into merely a good game. Omoruyi really picked up the interior offensive slack for Freeman in the FSU game.

Stray Thought on the Game - Especially on the 1st half: At halftime I thought that RU had just played its best half of basketball this season - but still trailed by 1 point.

Stray Thought on Pikiell: I thought his substitutions to work around the foul troubles of Doucore, NBaker, Williams and Doorson were really good - creative, gambling a little with only 1 guard out there at times, but made a huge difference in keeping RU in the game (of course, along with great play by Omoruyi).
 
I am pretty sure you got the Sanders/Freeman screen thing 100% correct. I also thought Freeman was brilliant in the 1st half, but left it all out on the court and had nothing left.

This game demonstraed the optimal minutes are
Sanders 32
Freeman 26
 
I remember looking up at the scoreboard in the middle of the 1st half and i believe we were 3-5 from 3 and up by 2 points. I said we are down 4 if we are 1-5 from 3.

We reverted to the mean and the game finished where it was supposed to finish.

I have an issue including Thiam with Baker and Williams. He is not going to get the opportunities vs. most teams to get shots off.

I do not disagree with anything in this post - which is why I said sometimes a team like RU needs a little luck in the timing of which games in which players get hot.

Thiam is not in the same category as Baker or WIlliams, I agree - but he CAN get hot in any given game, and bury 3-4 3's ... if it is the right game, that could be the "luck" I am talking about that gets RU over the hump unexpectedly. I would add I think there is a reasonable chance (not a given) that by NEXT season Thiam could end up a 10-12 ppg scorer - even against a full and tougher schedule ... if he continues to develop his overall game and therefore reduces his hesitancy. He is after all only a sophomore - and one that Pikiell had said at the end of last year could have used a red shirt season last year (which Pikiell also said about Omoruyi) - I think Thiam has a lot of upside potential, and 2 and 2/3 seasons left to reach at least some of that upside.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BillyC80
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT