Some of the thoughts on this thread are just ridiculous. Can we let the kid get on campus and play in a few games before we say what he is or isn’t.
Gavin and Kante
- Thread starter RU72
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Gavin will be our starting 3 next year. Bank on it. He changes the offensive dynamic of our team in a big way.
You're missing the point by comparing a Combo guard to a Small forward in terms of getting drafted. Hood-Schifino is a guard, who needs his athletic abilities to get him onto a NBA roster....he's not going to get faster or taller by staying at Indiana....if you're a guard, your looking at a totally different entry point with scouts.
As a wing forward, which is what Gavin is, unless he has elite athletic abilities to not only catch and shoot, but also has the athletic ability to create his own shot AND get by bigger/stronger defense, with quickness and burst, that player is not a 1 & done.
Ace Bailey projects on every scout level to be a 1 & done type of talent/athlete. It will not matter what type of offense he plays in at college, this isn't college football, translating to the NFL. In scouts eyes, you have to be able to get your own offense against elite defensive players.
And certain kids are interested in college basketball and winning and getting a degree, vs a projected or potentially bad draft status thats not guaranteed. Draft boards change all the time. There is no doubt that he's going to be at RU for 3 years and helping RU build to new levels.
"small forward" - lol, have you seen him play? He brought the ball up the court at times for his EYBL team and quite often for his HS team. We will see him rebound and lead the fast break as well as bring the ball up the court at times next season.
I'm not saying Gavin is a one-and-done. I'm saying he's got about as much of a chance as those 3 B1G FR who will be 1 and dones did at this time last year. All 3 of those guys worked out pretty well, not everyone does but he's got a similar opportunity. He might have a better chance because his college team is so desperate for offense.
"No doubt that he's going to be at RU for 3 years"? - that's silly, that whole paragraph really.
This is the big fact in making and being drafted for the NBA..... I sat right next to an NBA GM at the Big Ten tournament. We talked for almost 5 hours straight about college and NBA basketball and many of the players that play in both now.
The above point was the most important point in being drafted for the NBA he told me. This GM revealed many things to me and he is with one of the best teams in the NBA and was named the top executive in the NBA a short time ago.
Best of Luck,
Groz
This is a pretty awesome topic to be speculating about. A question where every possible answer is good for us.
Not to be mean, but any outcome where Hyatt turns out to be the best we’ve got to start at the 3 would not be a good situation for us unless Hyatt’s game takes significant strides in many areas in the off season. We have to hope someone not on the 2022-23 roster moves into the starting line up (GG or other) to replace Caleb.
What I'm saying is, if he has similar numbers to Hood-Schifino, and I think that's likely, he'll be one and done and picked similarly to where Hoo-Shifino is projected and that will be really good for Rutgers.
If he has numbers like Richie predicts - he'll be around for another year or more. Also possible, but I think much less likely. There are also lots of scenarios between those two.
What I think is silly is to think he might have Hood-Shifino like numbers next year AND be around for 3 years because he's the type of kid who just loves the college experience or whatever or he's not the type of player that NBA scouts like (6'7" athletic, elite shooter)
There's obviously a scenario Gavin leaves without a degree. He has a good freshman year and breakout sophomore year and is a 1st round pick. You can't just dismiss that as not a possibility even if you don't think it's likely. It's a realistic scenario that could happen
Milo, I think what your analysis is missing is that body type and physical maturity come into play here even more than the numbers.
Carmelo was a fine college player, not a great one. It was his body and how he could use it that made him one and done.
That's what's missing from Gavin right now. When he gets drafted will depend largely upon his physical maturation.
Carmelo was a fine college player, not a great one. It was his body and how he could use it that made him one and done.
That's what's missing from Gavin right now. When he gets drafted will depend largely upon his physical maturation.
I understand that, I believe he'll gain weight if that's what you mean by physical maturation.
I didn't see anyone push him around in the EYBL games I saw and he guarded just about every position.
Didn't see it in his HS game either and he regularly guarded guys bigger than him - including the game at the RAC
He's 190ish now, will be 200-205 by end of next season, maybe more.
If you look at draft combine numbers, plenty of guys 6'6"-6'8" 200ish picked in the first round
How was Carmelo not a great standout college player when he carried Syracuse on his back to win a national championship?
As far as GG, if he is drafted it will be based on his potential, particularly as a 3 point shooter, not based on where his body is at a point in time. Was Chet Holmgram physically ready for the NBA when he was drafted 2nd last year? Is this year’s consensus number 1 pick, Victor Wembanyama physically ready for the NBA? Both are much thinner than Gavin is now, and Gavin will likely put on 20 pounds between now and when he is first eligible for the draft.
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I'm talking about the debate over whether GG will be here more than 1-2 years.
Wondering if anyone can name a few five star players in the last 5 years who stayed at one school for 3 seasons or more?
The interesting thing in all this back and forth on Gavin has been when he was the 30th ranked player and a 4* no one was talking about him being 1 and done. Then he moves up 10 spots in the rankings to 20th but also gets an extra star and suddenly he has to be one and done according to many...lol.
The player hasn't changed, just your perceptions of him.
The player hasn't changed, just your perceptions of him.
You must have comprehension issues....I didn't dismiss anything. I am saying that a player is going to be a multi year starter and needs to get significantly stronger and playing in an elite league, has to develop to stick in the NBA. I don't see that type of path, especially if Dylan, Ace and others arrive at RU.
Most kids need 2 years and the better more consistent NBA players (like Nova produced under Jay Wright), played 3 and 4 years in college. This notion that if you're not draftable early in your college career, is an issue, is 100% wrong.
Jalen Brunson, Mikeal Bridges, Josh Hart and Donte Divicenzo are ALL multiple year 1st and 2nd team all Big East kids. They weren't all drafted high, but we're developed and learned the game at the college level. None of the 4 entered college as a can't miss NBA player.
There is a difference between having reasonable expectations for Gavin and how exactly is a player with 3 more talented players on the roster, going to outplay those players?? I am assuming that Dylan, Ace Bailey and let's hypothetically say a Tyler Betsey all arrive in 2024.
There are players that need development and to improve. It is not a knock on the prospect, I am just watching the amount of talent across CBB and it takes time to become a true Pro, maybe that means 3 full seasons of development and improvement.
He is going to have to be able to do more than shoot, drive to be a NBA player. There are hundreds of college kids who can shoot. How well does a player understand the game, and other aspects matters.
I don't think many people are saying he will be one and done
I can read. You just must type so much you don't even remember what you're saying 🤣
You don't see a situation. I gave the situation. You're the one with reading comprehension issues apparently 🤷♂️
Here or overall? I saw tweets and articles about "major potential at the next level" and 1AD/2AD potential last summer. On3.com had him at #15 at one point too.
Nobody is saying he has to be one and done, at least not that I've seen.
It's more about how it's silly to say he's 100% not 1AD and almost certain to be here 3 years.
I saw him play and he was far from the best player on the court many nights but probably the best pro.
I had a former coach walk me through the difference between what he was and what he did. Changed my eye for players.
And I am not debating how long Gavin will be here. It will be what it will be. And physical maturity will play an important role. Everyone is different. He may or may not be ready after a year. He might benefit from a second year of seasoning in a college environment. Time will tell.
The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Bryan Antoine. He was consensus 5-star in 2019. Played three seasons at Villanova. Now at Radford.
Carmelo averaged over 22 points and 10 rebounds a game in his one college season. Who was playing better than him?
I think this is going to be the theme. The guys who qualify had significant season ending injuries. Very rarely if ever do guys play 3 mostly full seasons at their school out of high school.
I looked back quickly at all of 2018 class and some of 2019. Guys who fit the bill:
Bassey WKU - season ending injury
N’Faky Dante Oregon - Ineligible and season ending injury
Antoine Nova - 2.5 years significant injury
Not sure I’ll keep looks after seeing over 40 5-star kids none of them stay at one school more than 2 years without significant injury. So we should probably expect the same for Gavin.
He was 16th in NBA and 4th in BE that season.
I wasn't putting him down. He was a fine player. I wouldn't use great to describe his college career placed in context. But it was clear to everyone he would be an outstanding pro.
I'm not sure why you are arguing with me.
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Ok, I guess you've moved the standards to where a single second team all America season qualifies as great.
He didn’t start playing High school ball until his Junior year but he played AAU. He should have been starting from day one, egos of the upperclassmen were the reason he didn’t start. As soon as he set foot on campus he was the best shooter on the team and it wasn’t even close. I remember telling my buddies to look at him during midnight madness his freshman year during the warm up drills he didn’t miss a shot.
I’ll take his offense over his defensive “obstacles” every day and twice on Sunday
Ok - let’s flip it. You tell me which of Hyatt’s attributes you stylistically prefer over Caleb. If your going to say you think he’d be better suited to handle the ball regularly than Caleb because he committed less turnovers the rest of the board will laugh you off a cliff.
Hyatt a slightly better 3 point shooter. That’s the only “upgrade” except even that probably over hyped because Caleb only attempted like 60 or so 3s many of which he was forced to hoist up with the ball in his hands as the clock was expiring. For the most part, Caleb knew that wasn’t his role. Meanwhile playing 11 less minutes a game Hyatt attempted close to 150 3s and only shot 30% on them. If this is our reason for playing him I go back to my original point - we’re in trouble if that’s the best we have at the 3. He’s a downgrade from Caleb in every other area no matter your “stylistic” spin. I’m sure at this point even Shelby realizes this and he was Caleb’s biggest critic throughout the season. Geez
That's why Hyatt is so replaceable. He doesn't excel at anything. Not even sure what his best attribute is... probably defensive rebounding for his height
Interesting lineup next year could be:
Cliff
Baye
GG
Cam
Simpson
On offense…Two excellent 3pt shooters, speedy point guard who can penetrate, a true power forward (he’ll need some muscle though to bang down low consistently in the BIG) who can penetrate and finish (by finish I mean dunk on your head), a center who is now developing some polish around the rim with midrange developing.
On defense…Two rim protectors, a steals phenom, a quick disruptive guard, a long small forward with sneaky quick feet.
Cliff
Baye
GG
Cam
Simpson
On offense…Two excellent 3pt shooters, speedy point guard who can penetrate, a true power forward (he’ll need some muscle though to bang down low consistently in the BIG) who can penetrate and finish (by finish I mean dunk on your head), a center who is now developing some polish around the rim with midrange developing.
On defense…Two rim protectors, a steals phenom, a quick disruptive guard, a long small forward with sneaky quick feet.
Very interesting. It does scare me to start or even play 2 freshman a significant amount. 18 year olds vs 22 years olds isn’t a winning formula. That being said, those two guys are going to be very good. I can wait to watch the young guys coming in!
If this scares you, wait until 2024.
2024 is gonna be two transfers and 3 underclassmen starters in the most experienced starting lineup scenario.
Tore mine 50 years ago. Never had surgery. Fine today.
I was watching some Baye highlights earlier and as the saying goes, he’s a problem. Hopefully he’s got someone feeding him dozens of catch and shoot 3’s every day because if he can shoot 33% from deep next year I think he’ll play a lot. Mag needs to take his time.
