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How do you think this year's recruiting class will compare to Flood's Feb 2015 class?

What many people miss out on when looking at rankings is how much quantity will boost a recruiting class ranking. For example, when we were about 30ish as seen above, we had 19 recruits (more than most schools). And a few were 3-4 stars, which was pretty decent. We're currently around 80th, but we also only have like a dozen kids committed right now. That ranking will go up to at least the low 40s or high 50s once all is said and done with this late recruiting class. I'm guessing Flood's would have been in the high to mid 40s for a guy who had the entire recruiting period to recruit.
 
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Scarlet_Scourge said:
Flood had a whole year to get that 2015 class.

I have always said that this class was a lost cause when Flood was here much less when there was a coaching change, which always scares off commits.

I think it will end up better than expected anyway, hopefully.

But the 2017 class will be the 1st true Ash class. We can judge that compared to the Flood's classes (1st year doesn't count, as that was GS's class) if anyone still cares about Flood by that point.
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This exactly.
 
PhilaPhans said:
What many people miss out on when looking at rankings is how much quantity will boost a recruiting class ranking. For example, when we were about 30ish as seen above, we had 19 recruits (more than most schools). And a few were 3-4 stars, which was pretty decent. We're currently around 80th, but we also only have like a dozen kids committed right now. That ranking will go up to at least the low 40s or high 50s once all is said and done with this late recruiting class. I'm guessing Flood's would have been in the high to mid 40s for a guy who had the entire recruiting period to recruit.
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Exactly right. And this isn't even factoring the fact that many of Flood's commits would have decommitted anyway. Everybody and their mother knew Rene was looking around the day after he committed. Yet, people are bringing him up as an example of Ash's failure! What?! Just goes to show the bias Ash is fighting.

It's really pretty simple to evaluate the Flood guys. There were those who supported Flood simply because supporting him was in the best interest of the program. Knight Shift, PAKnight, etc. And I can understand that. But now, those guys fully back Ash. To me those are the real Rutgers fans. They support the program. Period.

But then there are those who continue to support Flood even with Ash now on board. They rain on Ash every chance they get. EVERY FREAKING CHANCE. So, the question now comes - did those people really support Rutgers - or were they just a bunch of Jeff Towers mini-me's? I would like to believe that they are Rutgers brothers true and true and are simply too butthurt over the loss of the former staff, including Flood, with whom some of them have developed personal relationships with. But in the end - the question is simple - are you hurting Rutgers or not? I cannot fathom how anybody can criticize this staff when they haven't even lost a game yet. Imagine when they do? Already these yahoos are laying the foundation for next year - expecting 8-9 wins on the first year? Why? So they can lambast Ash when he losses his first game. I can't believe anybody was expecting Ash to hold on to ALL of the Flood's recruits. Actually, not only that but they were actually expecting Ash to add a few four and five stars. Completely, unrealistic expectations. Harbaugh couldn't even do that in Michigan when he took over. But nahhh, let's bash Ash because I want to be justified in my relentless defense of Flood. Totally ridiculous.
 
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The fiasco surrounding the 2015 season basically halted any momentum coach flood had on the recruiting front. Hypothetically, if he had no arrests, no suspensions and no distractions he definitely would have recruited much much better than coach Ash this year. With this being said, it's not fair to compare Chris Ash's first year to Flood. However, next year we will have an idea if he's able to truly recruit at a school like Rutgers.
 
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RU2055 said:
Exactly right. And this isn't even factoring the fact that many of Flood's commits would have decommitted anyway. Everybody and their mother knew Rene was looking around the day after he committed. Yet, people are bringing him up as an example of Ash's failure! What?! Just goes to show the bias Ash is fighting.

It's really pretty simple to evaluate the Flood guys. There were those who supported Flood simply because supporting him was in the best interest of the program. Knight Shift, PAKnight, etc. And I can understand that. But now, those guys fully back Ash. To me those are the real Rutgers fans. They support the program. Period.

But then there are those who continue to support Flood even with Ash now on board. They rain on Ash every chance they get. EVERY FREAKING CHANCE. So, the question now comes - did those people really support Rutgers - or were they just a bunch of Jeff Towers mini-me's? I would like to believe that they are Rutgers brothers true and true and are simply too butthurt over the loss of the former staff, including Flood, with whom some of them have developed personal relationships with. But in the end - the question is simple - are you hurting Rutgers or not? I cannot fathom how anybody can criticize this staff when they haven't even lost a game yet. Imagine when they do? Already these yahoos are laying the foundation for next year - expecting 8-9 wins on the first year? Why? So they can lambast Ash when he losses his first game. I can't believe anybody was expecting Ash to hold on to ALL of the Flood's recruits. Actually, not only that but they were actually expecting Ash to add a few four and five stars. Completely, unrealistic expectations. Harbaugh couldn't even do that in Michigan when he took over. But nahhh, let's bash Ash because I want to be justified in my relentless defense of Flood. Totally ridiculous.
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I must have missed something. Is there really that many fans lurking here that are hurt Flood is out and secretly want Ash to fail?
 
AreYouNUTS said:
LOL! So you managed to:

1) prove my point that the class was never ranked in the 20's (see: you made it up) and

2) post tweets from August and September, long before other classes began to jump ours, left-and-right.

Well done! [roll]

Once again: by Mid-November the class ranking dropped, a lot, down into the 50's on both Rivals and 247 and into the mid-40's on Scout. Not my fault that you weren't paying attention. Shit, you can probably go back about 100 pages and find threads that actually discussed the class rankings at the time.
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Dinardo's posts only go back to August, and it shows that Rivals and Scout had RU at 30. RU was also ranked in the high 20's in June/July but I can't get those Dinardo posts. So you are wrong as usual saying RU was never in the 20s.

Yes those posts are from a long time ago, but in your initial statement you said 'RU WAS NEVER RANKED IN THE 20's'. So my point was to prove you wrong again.

If it wasn't for people like you RU would have even better recruits, you and your kind continued to bash Flood, recruits, players and parents of players. Creating the perception that RU had horrible fans and kids should not play here.
 
RealityChech2 said:
Dinardo's posts only go back to August, and it shows that Rivals and Scout had RU at 30. RU was also ranked in the high 20's in June/July but I can't get those Dinardo posts. So you are wrong as usual saying RU was never in the 20s.

Yes those posts are from a long time ago, but in your initial statement you said 'RU WAS NEVER RANKED IN THE 20's'. So my point was to prove you wrong again.

If it wasn't for people like you RU would have even better recruits, you and your kind continued to bash Flood, recruits, players and parents of players. Creating the perception that RU had horrible fans and kids should not play here.
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How did you "prove me wrong"? Nowhere do you show that the class was ranked in the 20!s. Nice try. Shocking how you "can't get" those posts and that you didn't notice how quickly and low, the class dropped, from early October until late November. Just shocking I tell you lol! Bottom line is the class was likely to finish in the 50's, again, which isn't good.

Yeah all the de-commits in 2013 and 3 lousy classes were my fault. Brilliant deduction buddy.
 
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RU2055 said:
Exactly right. And this isn't even factoring the fact that many of Flood's commits would have decommitted anyway. Everybody and their mother knew Rene was looking around the day after he committed. Yet, people are bringing him up as an example of Ash's failure! What?! Just goes to show the bias Ash is fighting.

It's really pretty simple to evaluate the Flood guys. There were those who supported Flood simply because supporting him was in the best interest of the program. Knight Shift, PAKnight, etc. And I can understand that. But now, those guys fully back Ash. To me those are the real Rutgers fans. They support the program. Period.

But then there are those who continue to support Flood even with Ash now on board. They rain on Ash every chance they get. EVERY FREAKING CHANCE. So, the question now comes - did those people really support Rutgers - or were they just a bunch of Jeff Towers mini-me's? I would like to believe that they are Rutgers brothers true and true and are simply too butthurt over the loss of the former staff, including Flood, with whom some of them have developed personal relationships with. But in the end - the question is simple - are you hurting Rutgers or not? I cannot fathom how anybody can criticize this staff when they haven't even lost a game yet. Imagine when they do? Already these yahoos are laying the foundation for next year - expecting 8-9 wins on the first year? Why? So they can lambast Ash when he losses his first game. I can't believe anybody was expecting Ash to hold on to ALL of the Flood's recruits. Actually, not only that but they were actually expecting Ash to add a few four and five stars. Completely, unrealistic expectations. Harbaugh couldn't even do that in Michigan when he took over. But nahhh, let's bash Ash because I want to be justified in my relentless defense of Flood. Totally ridiculous.
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Right. I support the program. I will not trash the coaches, the players, recruits or anything about the program, as I believe it negatively impacts the program. Sure, some folks want to vent. That's their prerogative. I'm glad we have moved on, and better days are ahead. However, there may be some darker days before seeing blue sky. It's a process (really it is). As I have said, I am 100% behind whomever the coaches want to recruit and sign--that's their job, and they may see something in a recruit that is not reflected in the star system. I have even more confidence that this new staff will coach 'em up. Go RU.
 
Scarlet_Scourge said:
Secretly???

There were psychopaths comparing Ash to Shea from day one.

Ash can't do anything right in their eyes.
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Yea I caught that too but remember the scum liar grammar school writers have tried to do that from the time of his announcement, the same asses that say he can't recruit. Of course article after article speak how great a recruiter he is, It just that Meyer said he is a better coach.
Now I will get quotes with that statement. What Meyer was saying he is a very good recruiter but a greater coach. So come fall we win. Good choice by Hobbs as he pulled a rabbit (a golden one at that) out of the hat and the local scum are just throwing mud on the wall in the hopes something sticks. What sticks out to me is Rutgers is on the rise.
 
This year I think the class falls below that of any of Flood's. Expected, but still disappointing. I wasn't surprised to lose Rene or Russo. Rene was always a soft commit and Russo wasn't the best fit for the new offensive philosophy. But there is no difference of philosophy to blame Barbir's flip on. This one is all on the coaching staff. Rutgers has an opening for a new kicker and Barbir could have come in and started for the next four years. But he visits Rutgers and gets the full official visit routine and he still flips??? Not a positive sign for this staff. Final verdict can't be determined until we see what happens in 2017, but not as great a start as I was hoping for to date.
 
jdeer1976 said:
This year I think the class falls below that of any of Flood's. Expected, but still disappointing. I wasn't surprised to lose Rene or Russo. Rene was always a soft commit and Russo wasn't the best fit for the new offensive philosophy. But there is no difference of philosophy to blame Barbir's flip on. This one is all on the coaching staff. Rutgers has an opening for a new kicker and Barbir could have come in and started for the next four years. But he visits Rutgers and gets the full official visit routine and he still flips??? Not a positive sign for this staff. Final verdict can't be determined until we see what happens in 2017, but not as great a start as I was hoping for to date.
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No, it's NOT "all on the coaching staff," please follow:

Kicker commits to PSU. Michigan is his dream school. Spot opens at Michigan. Kid ditches PSU for Maize-N-Blue. Babir ditches RU for State Penn. Takes bible with him. See ya'!
 
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AreYouNUTS said:
No, it's NOT "all on the coaching staff," please follow:

Kicker commits to PSU. Michigan is his dream school. Spot opens at Michigan. Kid ditches PSU for Maize-N-Blue. Babir ditches RU for State Penn. Takes bible with him. See ya'!
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How do you know Mich is his dream school, did he tell you? You really have no credibility since you make shit up to fit your agenda.

If the same situation happened to FLood you would be basing Flood every minute like you were for the past 2 years. But if it happens to Ash it's not Ash's fault because ..... (make up shit to fit your agenda).
 
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AreYouNUTS said:
No, it's NOT "all on the coaching staff," please follow:

Kicker commits to PSU. Michigan is his dream school. Spot opens at Michigan. Kid ditches PSU for Maize-N-Blue. Babir ditches RU for State Penn. Takes bible with him. See ya'!
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None of what you just said provides any defense of the RU coaching staff whatsoever. I agree with you're time line of events but that's all you provided. This one IS on the coaching staff. Whatever their message was that they tried to use to keep Barbir failed. They need to learn from it and move on but I'm not going to say they aren't to blame for this decommit.
 
cicero grimes said:
I must have missed something. Is there really that many fans lurking here that are hurt Flood is out and secretly want Ash to fail?
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No there isn't. It just that any criticism of Ash how ever mild evokes this knee jerk reaction from the CA pom-pom crowd to attack them as Flood supporters. Ash has gotten off to a horrible start. Spin away pom-pom crowd.
 
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Virginiarufan said:
You're setting the bar really low. Flood just couldn't convince enough high caliber players to come to RU. I believe ASH and his assistants will do a much better job especially after they see the energy on the field next year. I'm hoping the days of losing to the B1G elite by 40 points are over. If recruits see a competitive team, some decent wins - maybe a bowl game, they'll sign to play football here.
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I'm not setting any bar here. Just waiting to see how these guys produce before I get really excited.
 
RUaMoose said:
No there isn't. It just that any criticism of Ash how ever mild evokes this knee jerk reaction from the CA pom-pom crowd to attack them as Flood supporters. Ash has gotten off to a horrible start. Spin away pom-pom crowd.
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"horrible start"??? LOL, okay!
 
AreYouNUTS said:
Conjecture? Sure. Wishful thinking? Nah, not really, I mean I'm not expecting a Top 25 class in 2017 but I'll stick by my comments based on a couple of things:

- it has been stated, by coaches and people in the business alike, that Ash and quite a few other guys on this staff are top-notch recruiters

- Flood's classes weren't too good. You might want to take a look at their rankings here, on 247, and on Scout, for the last 3 years

Could I be wrong? Yup. Will I? Put it this way, if I were still gambling, I'd like my odds.
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Flood's recruiting classes ranked 45, 57, and 53 according to Rivals. You said Ash's 2017 class would "blow away" those classes. What qualifies as blow away? Twenty plus spots? That would put us on the edge of the top 25. Is it possible? Sure. I hope it happens. But I'm not ready to declare Ash some miracle worker till I see the results.
 
AreYouNUTS said:
"horrible start"??? LOL, okay!
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Yes..horrible start. All he has done that I've seen is show up three week late for work (hello Terry Shea) lower overall expectations and do a poor job of selling his vision given the ratio of quality exits to quality commits. Mock the Tie all you want, he couldn't have been any worse.
 
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RUaMoose said:
Yes..horrible start. All he has done that I've seen is show up three week late for work (hello Terry Shea) lower overall expectations and do a poor job of selling his vision given the ratio of quality exits to quality commits. Mock the Tie all you want, he couldn't have been any worse.
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I'm curious, what would you consider a good start? What would be your criteria?
 
A lot can happen in the next week. However, remember that the team rankings take quantity into account. If you just go by the average rating per recruit, RU would be 51 on the team rankings in 247. Still not great, but no worse than we were doing previously. I agree that next year will be more telling.
 
Queztastic said:
A lot can happen in the next week. However, remember that the team rankings take quantity into account. If you just go by the average rating per recruit, RU would be 51 on the team rankings in 247. Still not great, but no worse than we were doing previously. I agree that next year will be more telling.
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Agreed. Nebraska is looking for a strong finish, according to this summary of B1G recruiting:
https://n.rivals.com/news/road-to-nsd-big-10-predictions
 
I think it had to be expected we would lose some of this class,but I thought Ash would hold onto some key recruits..not lose all of Rene,Russo and Barbir,the higher ranked kids..What Maryland has done with similar coach turnover is pretty good after losing some name recruits,and Durkin was on the job earlier then Ash.Coach Ash needs to start beating,Temple,Pitt then PSU ..in that order for NJ recruits.Will not be easy and still think he should have added a NJ postion coach,and or kept Camp/Barthel till LOI day.just my two cents..Flood really put RU in a hole.
 
The three most important elements to recruiting are as follows:
  1. Relationships - long term built up relationship with the kid, the kid's parents, friends, HS coach, etc
  2. Coaches Credibility - are the kids (and those that influence the kids) convinced in the abilities of the coach - developing kids, taking care of the kids, coaching the kids - all translating into winning
  3. The Program itself - some program sell themselves - Bama, ND ...... and as much as some here won't admit it, yes, Penn State (with PA kids).
Now considering these three factors, please someone explain to me how Ash is supposed to be reeling in four and five stars from the get go here at Rutgers.

Before Schiano left, he had 1 and 2 going for him. When Flood took over, he had 1 going for him with the benefit of the doubt for 2. This is why in 2013, Flood was actually doing well (Blacknall, Weigers, etc), but then when the season tanked and his coaching got exposed, the decommits happened.

You have to give Ash and his staff at least one full year of recruiting before you can fully judge his abilities.

Instead of dwelling in non-stop negativity, how about just stop and observe all the things that have been happening so far. If you want a summary, here ya go:
  • Hire super energetic coaches that are aligned with his vision and plan (check)
  • Install the elements to change the culture - see weight lifting regimen as example (check)
  • Concentrate on building relationships with NJ HS - look at how NJ Coaches are raving about Ash - already the there is a buzz with 2017 and 2018 recruits with Ash (check)
No, I don't think he is competing for the B1G right off the bat, but if he shows that he can hang with the big 3 in the B1G East and beat teams like Mary, Indiana and Penn State, I'm telling you now, watch out. Because by then he would have element number 2 secured - watch the recruiting "flood" gates open then.

There are a lot of great things happening right now with the program - it's too bad people are missing it because they are too hung up on a kicker ( A FREAKING KICKER!!!!!) that went to his dream school or an overrated QB that got bad advise from a former RU employee with an axe to grind.
 
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RUaMoose said:
Yes..horrible start. All he has done that I've seen is show up three week late for work (hello Terry Shea) lower overall expectations and do a poor job of selling his vision given the ratio of quality exits to quality commits. Mock the Tie all you want, he couldn't have been any worse.
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You really believe the crap you're spewing here?
 
RU2055 said:
I'm curious, what would you consider a good start? What would be your criteria?
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I'm reasonable, a couple blue chip recruits would do. Graber got Malik Jackson and Jay Bellamy early on. Schiano got Rikki Cook, the DL Neil and several others after the famous "meeting". Ash's first month from a recruiting standpoint is reminiscent of Terry Shea. You know it and I know it.
 
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RUfinal4 said:
I am guessing they will be similar on paper (stars ratings) but Flood's 2015 may be a little higher. The reason I think this is because Ash is new and lost a few committed players. Also, he is recruiting guys who are losing commitments elsewhere or were top FCS recruits. I don't think he will be able to steal a top 3 start or 4 star kid from a more traditional program this year but may be able to steal kids from midmajor or fcs schools.
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I think what will matter more is Ash and staffs ability to get the most out of the kids they deem playmakers in their program. That was floods flaw, inability to make kids better. I am very hopeful coach Ash will get more out of everyone as every level. I am really hoping to see what they can do with Grant and Turay this year.
 
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RU2055 said:
The three most important elements to recruiting are as follows:
  1. Relationships - long term built up relationship with the kid, the kid's parents, friends, HS coach, etc
  2. Coaches Credibility - are the kids (and those that influence the kids) convinced in the abilities of the coach - developing kids, taking care of the kids, coaching the kids - all translating into winning
  3. The Program itself - some program sell themselves - Bama, ND ...... and as much as some here won't admit it, yes, Penn State (with PA kids).
Now considering these three factors, please someone explain to me how Ash is supposed to be reeling in four and five stars from the get go here at Rutgers.

Before Schiano left, he had 1 and 2 going for him. When Flood took over, he had 1 going for him with the benefit of the doubt for 2. This is why in 2013, Flood was actually doing well (Blacknall, Weigers, etc), but then when the season tanked and his coaching got exposed, the decommits happened.

You have to give Ash and his staff at least one full year of recruiting before you can fully judge his abilities.

Instead of dwelling in non-stop negativity, how about just stop and observe all the things that have been happening so far. If you want a summary, here ya go:
  • Hire super energetic coaches that are aligned with his vision and plan (check)
  • Install the elements to change the culture - see weight lifting regimen as example (check)
  • Concentrate on building relationships with NJ HS - look at how NJ Coaches are raving about Ash - already the there is a buzz with 2017 and 2018 recruits with Ash (check)
No, I don't think he is competing for the B1G right off the bat, but if he shows that he can hang with the big 3 in the B1G East and beat teams like Mary, Indiana and Penn State, I'm telling you now, watch out. Because by then he would have element number 2 secured - watch the recruiting "flood" gates open then.

There are a lot of great things happening right now with the program - it's too bad people are missing it because they are too hung up on a kicker ( A FREAKING KICKER!!!!!) that went to his dream school or an overrated QB that got bad advise from a former RU employee with an axe to grind.
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Lots of good points in this post. Hoping we see coach Ash close the deal with some great recruits this weekend. Would help ease some of my concerns
 
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