Understand NJ. They'd argue whether Mother Theresa was a good person or not. It's a very different place than most anywhere else.
I'm perplexed...
- Thread starter aquaper
- Start date
Understand NJ. They'd argue whether Mother Theresa was a good person or not. It's a very different place than most anywhere else.
Every coach at Miami has gotten 4* talent there. You could get 4* talent there. It isn't a surprise or groundbreaking at Miami.
And if we get to the point where we're losing one conference game every 3 years or so, I promise not to care who the assistant coaches are either.
RutgersAl --- on behalf of sane people everywhere --- find a new team since apparently we are going to get drilled anyways. Your highs are way too high and your lows are way too low.
The difference between RU and The U right now is talent level. Kyle Flood, who really did the best job he could, was consistently beat out for recruits. The great migration of a few years ago is catching up with us. We have no depth at LB and none of us know how good Roberts, Taylor, Johnson or Margolis will be. We lot our entire secondary this year and the guys we are playing are still inexperienced. The D-Line is a huge work in progress.
Turay didn't progress last year. These guys need a teacher. I truly believe HCCA is that teacher. He has been successful at numerous stops. The foundations he has laid at Wisky, Arkansas and tOSU are still strong to this day.
Do I expect us to win overnight? No, not at all. But I feel this guy can teach a defense better than GS. He develops DBs like no other. I saw a couple of promising young corners last year that I believe will excel under his tutelage.
I saw an offense last year that was inconsistent. Will the spread work? I don't know. But I like the fact we have a guy who played QB at Rice and coached under Tom Hermann. The spread is ingrained in him. So stop being negative and get behind Ash.
Love this post.
Has weed in it....not passionate....and varied intelligence.....love it :)
I know it wasn't your intent...but a great play on words.....made me chuckle.
Al: You make excellent points in your post but I can't solely blame the alumni and fanbase. The Institution and Trenton (to a lesser extent) will not bring in a high profile Head Coach. Yes, you are correct money is an issue, but I also believe that a Rich Rodriguez, Lane Kiffin or Richt are not going to tolerate interference by the AD, faculty or President. They'll simply say goodbye and walk to their next gig. Remember the only reason Schiano had any success here was because Bob Mulcahy served as a buffer between him and everything negative at Rutgers. When the football program got too big McCormick was receiving fire from every direction so he decided to pull a Judas and fired Mulcahy, basically killing any hope of playing in a BCS bowl.
Last edited:
Yea we are at the same place as Miami, which as 5 national championships and a endless supply of 4 and 5 star players in their back yard tripping over themselves to play there, regardless of whom is coaching. Ash would go down there and clean up if he were the Miami coach. Al Golden (a guy no employer will even call) had 13 4-star commits to him in his 2015-16 classes. Lot's of credibility, there...right. A complete loser and bullshitter like James Franklin was able to clean up at PSU, even with Sandusky sanctions! Comparing RU recruiting under Flood and T-5 days before the official start of the Ash era with Da U is just asinine, even for you.
Last edited:
I lived on Miami's campus for two years. I understand better than most everyone else on this board why Miami gets recruits and why Miami is positioning themselves well for forthcoming success:
Lets take their DL Coach Hire:
Kuligowski routinely developed players into NFL-caliber talents at Missouri. Some former Tigers defensive linemen that Kuligowki helped send to the NFL include Aldon Smith, Shane Ray, Sheldon Richardson, Ziggy Hood and C.J. Mosley.
At Miami, Kuligowski will reportedly fill the same role he did at Mizzou.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...res-former-missouri-dl-coach-craig-kuligowski
Hires like this give Miami instant credibility with recruits.
The aforementioned numskulls have exposed themselves as predicted in my initial answer
I'm very familiar with Miami's and Rutgers roster, which is why I better understand how they compare with Rutgers, unlike you, who only has superficial knowledge of Miami's roster. The fact is Miami hasn't won a National Championship since 2001. Thats 14 years, an eternity in college football terms. Since 2005, the program has stagnated. Also since 2005, Rutgers has many more bowl victories than Miami. The 2014 Rutgers team would have HAMMERED Miami. Miami would have hammered the 2015 Rutgers team. Fast - Forward till today and the overall talent levels of the programs are similar, save for QB, where Miami has an excellent signal caller.
But that is about to change, because Miami not only hired someone who can recruit talent, they are hiring coaches with the proven ability to develop it.
Similarly James Franklin built his credibility at Vanderbilt, when he turned that program around, which is why he outrecruited Kyle Flood for Jersey's best. We should not overlook the fact that a big reason why Penn State outrecruits Rutgers is that they've made a bigger commitment to football success in terms of facilities and the caliber of their coaching staff. When you add to the fact that it provides a bigger time football atmosphere than Rutgers, its not hard to see why it will continue to be difficult for Rutgers to beat Penn State on the recruiting trail. This is what concerns me. We are going to have to better our odds against them by beating them, which I do think, we are capable of doing.
no amount of barbs can change the fact that Penn States and Miami's staff has credibility and ours has to develop it.
Miami recruits itself Al. You are giving Richt credit for something that will happen no matter who is coaching.
Sorry Al a Golden was bringing in 4 * talent.
Sorry Al a Golden was bringing in 4 * talent.
Al, did you get lumps of dog doo in your stocking? Busch's NFL credentials not good enough for you?
Busch:
http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=32525
Busch’s safeties have been among the team’s top athletes over the past three seasons. Among his defensive corps last year, Husker safeties recorded six of Nebraska’s 12 interceptions in 2006. Strong safety Tierre Green, who returns for his third season as a starter in the defensive backfield, added one pickoff and assisted the Blackshirts by ranking fifth in tackles. Rickey Thenarse, a freshman, added an interception and made significant contributions on special teams. Together they helped the Blackshirts rank 13th nationally in pass efficiency defense.The lofty ranking was nothing new as Busch helped guide the 2005 Husker defense to an impressive No. 10 national pass efficiency defense ranking and the No. 2 ranking in the Big 12 Conference. The Huskers held six opponents to less than 200 yards passing and nine to one or fewer passing touchdowns in 2005.Following the 2005 campaign, Daniel Bullocks joined his twin brother, Josh, as Daniel was selected by the Detroit Lions in the second round of the 2006 NFL Draft. A year earlier, Josh, who started two years at NU, was a second-round selection of the New Orleans Saints. Ironically, each Bullocks brother was taken with the 40th pick.
http://www.utahstateaggies.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/busch_bill00.html
Busch also coached second-team all-league cornerback Curtis Marsh, who ranked second in the WAC and sixth in FBS in passes defended with 1.25 per game with 15 total on 13 pass break-ups and two interceptions.
Marsh was drafted by the Philadelphia Eagles with the 26th pick of the third round, the 90th overall selection in the 2011 NFL Draft, while Wagner was drafted in the second round with the 47th overall pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.
If alumni put up the bacon, neither the admin nor Trenton could say anything.
Ohio State has the program they have because of their alumni and fanbase.
Michigan has the program they have because of their alumni and fanbase.
Penn State has the program they have because of their alumni and fanbase.
Notice the trend?
I actually like the hire of Ash. What I don't like is that our offensive coaching staff will be going through Big Ten Coaching 101 this fall.
I'm not going to lie, I really like this new rutgersal. The board is going to be so much better without seeing constant threads like "COACH ASH IS GOING TO WIN MORE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS THAN URBAN MEYER HERE ARE 22 REASONS WHY!!!!"
Al needs to recalibrate. He had Flood winning the national championship, but not the guy who actually has.
Rutgers probably would have beaten Miami in 2014. That's because Miami had a horrible coach. And yet, a parade of four star players lined up to play there even with the lousy coaching situation. Coach credibility is not what draws people to Miami. Never has been, never will be.
rutgersAl is a complete moron. He seriously thinks we could have gotten Chip Kelly and position coaches from Alabama. He also thinks that all our coaches have no credibility and Miami/Maryland's hires have all been perfect.
Coach Ash will take Al along for the ride, kicking and screaming the entire way....which is fine for him since at the end of the day he's a worthless attention whore.
Coach Ash will take Al along for the ride, kicking and screaming the entire way....which is fine for him since at the end of the day he's a worthless attention whore.
Why don't you respond to what Al actually said instead of making up crap and name calling? He seems to know a helluva lot more than you and makes some reasonable points. This board is a pile of crap sometimes because of posters like you.
Nothing he has said is worth responding to. He makes no reasonable points and continues to spread absolute bullshit.
A
anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Every little thing is dissected in NJ. And we also have a much larger fan base than most are aware of. I think we have a top 10 active rivals board amongst all schools
aquaper: What else is a message board for? I don't know what they discuss on the OSU. Which national championship team was better? Who is more likely to be a top 10 draft pick? These topics are not in our wheelhouse.
We like to argue. We're from Jersey. It's what we do. When they finally decide on a third deck for the stadium, we'll be passionate about the color of the railings.
So whatever news there is, no matter how apparently small, will be grist for the mill. And right now, in a real dull time, an ass't DB coach is something to talk about.
Again, don't know what it's like out in Ohio, but it sounds like you board may be as active our WBB board. And that's why you're reading comments about the Rutgers FB Program. Feel free to chime in.
We like to argue. We're from Jersey. It's what we do. When they finally decide on a third deck for the stadium, we'll be passionate about the color of the railings.
So whatever news there is, no matter how apparently small, will be grist for the mill. And right now, in a real dull time, an ass't DB coach is something to talk about.
Again, don't know what it's like out in Ohio, but it sounds like you board may be as active our WBB board. And that's why you're reading comments about the Rutgers FB Program. Feel free to chime in.
Amazed you can call someone ignorant just because he states an opposing opinion (which happens to be based in fact). Go ahead and stick your head in the sand. There were better, more established coaches out there. We went for another needle in the haystack (don't often find two). While I hope his young energy brings us success, he has no history as a head coach or recruiter in NJ (and isn't even here yet because he chose to stay in Ohio when the Maryland and Penn State coaches are already poaching). There were better hires and if you can't admit that then you probably didn't realize Flood was a bad hire from the beginning like some of us more educated fans - like GRunit -did.
Maybe he turns out ok (and doesn't run like he did in Arkansas) but let's not say this is in the bank(s) - far from it. But we can all hope...
You said there were better hires we could have made?
Name 3?
Richt?
It would not have been a good fit.
He is a Miami alum, and is from the South, and has no associations with the North.
As Manhattan stated, it would have been a bad cultural fit here.
Plus, Maryland supposedly offered Richt and offered more $. Why didn't Richt choose Maryland?
Who else could we have gotten?
Name a realistic hire.
Supposedly Mullen wanted 5 million per year.
That has to be a top 10 head coach salary.
You really think we could have paid for him and a quality staff?
Next
Who else you got?
Rich Rod?
Is he a slam dunk?
If he is so great, why didn'for ANY other school looking for a coach this season hire him?
Who else you got?
I think you are blowing smoke on the possible candidates we could have hired.
Give us more names, please.
(And please don't embarass yourself and say Golden or Schiano.)
Nice first post. IP check anyone?
I have no problem with the opinion that older, more experienced coaches are better at coaching and recruiting. In fact I like experienced coaches as well and am glad Ash has a nice mix so far. Where is the outrage for Okruch and Busch? What I do disagree with are supposed Rutgers fans posting on a Rutgers forum that the new coach sucks as does his staff. He has not coached a game and the staff is not even complete yet.
Then there is the delusion that we should be poaching other P5 position coaches like Miami or OSU does. No coach is going to make a lateral move to Rutgers, sorry, time to wake up and join reality. We don't have unlimited money and Ash is not interested in building a team full of random coaches. How about you let Ash and the Urban coaching tree do the work? Because honestly, not one person on this forum knows jack crap about coaching. The Ash haters all fall in the same bucket, they like big flashy names. I wonder if these people like Dan Mullen, Tom Herman, Narduzzi, Fuente, etc.?
Out of curiosity, who were the better head coaching options?
Think small and be small. You exclude Golden and say it's an embarassment to include him. A guy who essentially is under contract for the same amount of money we paid our unproven assistant DC, has Head Coaching experience (who inherited a mess and the team still had 8 wins), and recruited successfully in our backyard for years. Amazing that is an embarassment. What is an embrassment is the small mindedness of a group of so-called loyal alumni and short-sighted politicians and an administration who can't understand that spending a bit more money on a recognized coach actually makes good business sense because a proven name puts more fans in the seats immediately, signs more top rated recruits immediately, and ultimately fuels the bottom line - immediately. Ash does none of that. Simple math. Need $1 mil more for a established coach - then only need 2,000 or less more fans in the seats a game to pay for it (average $80 per ticket holder for 6 games). For each million add 2,000 seats. Not rocket science. It is silly to think that a better coach can't deliver on that. We are so caught up in our own small mindedness that we can't even see how ridiculous it is that we can't afford a big name coach. And that is just the financials. You solve the recruiting issue as well by hiring a proven entity.
Sure, I understand that our state institution doesn't have the support of the state government and that, in and of itself, is an almost valid excuse to justify our lack of expectations. But at some point we, as loyal alumni, have to stop being defeatists and accepting the age old excuses of the past. We are like a beaten dog who accepts the punishment, as tho it is just, when in fact it is not. Rather, we need to believe that we can afford, and can attract, a big name coach and don't have to settle for less.
I am hoping Ash will deliver, but let's not be so "loyal" that it clouds your judgement as to whether this was a good business decision. Clearly it was not. Neither was Flood. Now, that is not to say it won't work out in the end, but you are hoping to go cheap and find another needle in the haystack versus bringing in a proven entity. As someone who makes business decision everyday around risk and reward, this one is a little heavy on the risk and a little light on the likelihood of reward (there are penny stocks out there that have made some people wealthy - but most investors in high risk stocks are losers). I'm hoping we are one of the lucky ones but let's not pretend this was a blue chip stock of a hire.
This is a board filled with passionate and loyal alumni and fans. Let us not be so critical of an opposing view that it blinds us to the possibility that a naysayer may just be right (or at least partially right).
CG
The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.
F Scott Fitzgerald
One must dig deeply into opposing points of view in order to know whether your own position remains defensible. Iron sharpens iron.
Francis Collins
See my other post. Not worth repeating myself other than to say - think small, be small. You, and others who have been tainted by a long loyal following of RU sports (like me), continue to fall for the same old facade that we can't afford a big name coach. As I noted in my other reply - the math proves otherwise. A bigger name coach that costs $1 million more would only have to put 2,000+ more fans a game in the seats to pay his salary. Hardly an insurmountable feat. A better known coach could fill those seats quickly upon hire. I would love to say Ash is the man, but you can;t blame me nor RuGUnit for presenting an opposing view.
Chicago....great quotes. People should think about them when it comes to politics.
While I agree with your posts in general, it seems a bit simplistic. If 2000 seats=$1million then 10,000 seats would give us another $5 million to work with. That puts us in Saban territory. Saban here would surely put even more than an additional 10k seats. But he's not coming here for twice that.
With that line of reasoning, virtually every college should be doubling their offers because you only have to put a few thousand more fannies in the seats. And then everyone can afford Saban, Meier, D'Antonio, etc. But we're not seeing that are we?
Sure, Ash is a 'pig in the poke,' but every HC was co-ordinator at some point. High Div-1 schools are loaded with HCs hired with no previous HC experience who have blossomed...as there have been countless failures. Succesfull HCs have flopped at their new spot, as well as been terrific.
There aren't really a lot of 'destination' schools. And while we (some) may think of us as one, we're really not, at this point. Maybe we should act that way. We'd be the only ones thinking that way. How many HCs (any sport) at RU have moved up when they moved out?
We've had 3 opportunities with the revenue sports to become a destination sport. We caught lightening in the bottle, but failed to capitalize. Frank Burns, Tom Young, and Greg Schiano. The administration dropped the ball. Would paying for a "name" coach made a difference? As I think about it....maybe.
While I agree with your posts in general, it seems a bit simplistic. If 2000 seats=$1million then 10,000 seats would give us another $5 million to work with. That puts us in Saban territory. Saban here would surely put even more than an additional 10k seats. But he's not coming here for twice that.
With that line of reasoning, virtually every college should be doubling their offers because you only have to put a few thousand more fannies in the seats. And then everyone can afford Saban, Meier, D'Antonio, etc. But we're not seeing that are we?
Sure, Ash is a 'pig in the poke,' but every HC was co-ordinator at some point. High Div-1 schools are loaded with HCs hired with no previous HC experience who have blossomed...as there have been countless failures. Succesfull HCs have flopped at their new spot, as well as been terrific.
There aren't really a lot of 'destination' schools. And while we (some) may think of us as one, we're really not, at this point. Maybe we should act that way. We'd be the only ones thinking that way. How many HCs (any sport) at RU have moved up when they moved out?
We've had 3 opportunities with the revenue sports to become a destination sport. We caught lightening in the bottle, but failed to capitalize. Frank Burns, Tom Young, and Greg Schiano. The administration dropped the ball. Would paying for a "name" coach made a difference? As I think about it....maybe.
Nice, "educated" response.
"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert
"Where men are the most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have there given reins to passion...." -David Hume
I pretty much agree with what you say and most importantly your last paragraph. The program was on the rise with a top 25 recruiting class, an appearance in the top 10, a pipeline to the NFL, and instead of upgrading on the coach we panicked and went with Flood thinking short-term and sacrificing the long-term. Now, we put our destiny in the hands of coach with no head coaching experience, no NJ recruiting ties, a history (however brief) of running away from failure, etc. It would seem that after the Flood gaffe we might want something a little more proven (and yes, even Golden would have been more proven and not much more expensive). Neither guarantees success, but one increase the odds, and at this juncture, I personally would have taken the proverbial bird in then hand versus looking for another one in the bush as it would have had an immediate/greater impact on the recruiting front as well as on the revenue side. Now, we have to wait, hope, and see...and it doesn't help that he stayed in Ohio (with his co-defensive coordinator and his replacement) when he could have been here during a key recruiting period. Truth be told, I'm of the impression that Hobbs was brought in for one reason - reputational risk management - and his decision to go with someone with more limited history protects us from too many skeletons in the closet. Maybe a good move on that front, but a risky one on the success side. That said, I am putting my eggs in the hope basket and wishing Coach Ash much success - but preserving the right to be challenging as complacency will only lead to mediocrity and we've had enough of that in our history.
Thanks for your well-thought out and reasonable response.
-CG
Last edited:
Similar threads
