I'm perplexed...

[Chicago_Glenn]

Nice first post. IP check anyone?

I have no problem with the opinion that older, more experienced coaches are better at coaching and recruiting. In fact I like experienced coaches as well and am glad Ash has a nice mix so far. Where is the outrage for Okruch and Busch? What I do disagree with are supposed Rutgers fans posting on a Rutgers forum that the new coach sucks as does his staff. He has not coached a game and the staff is not even complete yet.

Then there is the delusion that we should be poaching other P5 position coaches like Miami or OSU does. No coach is going to make a lateral move to Rutgers, sorry, time to wake up and join reality. We don't have unlimited money and Ash is not interested in building a team full of random coaches. How about you let Ash and the Urban coaching tree do the work? Because honestly, not one person on this forum knows jack crap about coaching. The Ash haters all fall in the same bucket, they like big flashy names. I wonder if these people like Dan Mullen, Tom Herman, Narduzzi, Fuente, etc.?


Out of curiosity, who were the better head coaching options?

By the way - it was not my first post. Just my first post in a very long time. So no need to check my IP. Been on this Board since near its inception and stopped posting because namely people want to be right versus open to true discussion. I enjoy passion but not when it blinds people to reality. There is a lot of passion on this board and lets just leave it at that.

-CG

 

[RUTBAY]

Nice, "educated" response.


"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert

"Where men are the most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have there given reins to passion...." -David Hume

Dude some arguments are made and not intended to further man's consciousness. Sometimes they are just between a bunch of guys on a message board. Since you seem so fond of quotes.....

"Some times a cigar is just a cigar" -
Bill Clinton (or maybe Freud, I can never remember)

 

[thad23]

Al Golden is a proven coach? Where? Temple? His successors have had just as much success. Miami? He failed brilliantly last year with 6 NFL draft picks on his team. He was run out of town midseason. Planes flew banners begging for him to be fired. Btw, Miami got to 8 wins this year, not Golden. After being fired, the team went 4-1. 2 of the 4 wins he had before being fired were to FAU and Bethune-Cookman. He NEVER beat a top 25 team while coaching Miami. Anyone can recruit players to the U. You can't swing a dead cat in Dade/Broward without hitting a 4 star football player that dreamed of playing there. Ash, though unproven, is certainly a worthwhile risk over Golden.

Lol. Just really can't stand the love for Golden by some.

 

[ArminRU]

Think small and be small. You exclude Golden and say it's an embarassment to include him. A guy who essentially is under contract for the same amount of money we paid our unproven assistant DC, has Head Coaching experience (who inherited a mess and the team still had 8 wins), and recruited successfully in our backyard for years. Amazing that is an embarassment. What is an embrassment is the small mindedness of a group of so-called loyal alumni and short-sighted politicians and an administration who can't understand that spending a bit more money on a recognized coach actually makes good business sense because a proven name puts more fans in the seats immediately, signs more top rated recruits immediately, and ultimately fuels the bottom line - immediately. Ash does none of that. Simple math. Need $1 mil more for a established coach - then only need 2,000 or less more fans in the seats a game to pay for it (average $80 per ticket holder for 6 games). For each million add 2,000 seats. Not rocket science. It is silly to think that a better coach can't deliver on that. We are so caught up in our own small mindedness that we can't even see how ridiculous it is that we can't afford a big name coach. And that is just the financials. You solve the recruiting issue as well by hiring a proven entity.

Sure, I understand that our state institution doesn't have the support of the state government and that, in and of itself, is an almost valid excuse to justify our lack of expectations. But at some point we, as loyal alumni, have to stop being defeatists and accepting the age old excuses of the past. We are like a beaten dog who accepts the punishment, as tho it is just, when in fact it is not. Rather, we need to believe that we can afford, and can attract, a big name coach and don't have to settle for less.

I am hoping Ash will deliver, but let's not be so "loyal" that it clouds your judgement as to whether this was a good business decision. Clearly it was not. Neither was Flood. Now, that is not to say it won't work out in the end, but you are hoping to go cheap and find another needle in the haystack versus bringing in a proven entity. As someone who makes business decision everyday around risk and reward, this one is a little heavy on the risk and a little light on the likelihood of reward (there are penny stocks out there that have made some people wealthy - but most investors in high risk stocks are losers). I'm hoping we are one of the lucky ones but let's not pretend this was a blue chip stock of a hire.

This is a board filled with passionate and loyal alumni and fans. Let us not be so critical of an opposing view that it blinds us to the possibility that a naysayer may just be right (or at least partially right).

CG


The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.

F Scott Fitzgerald

One must dig deeply into opposing points of view in order to know whether your own position remains defensible. Iron sharpens iron.
Francis Collins

Al Golden? Seriously? You think he would have sold an extra 2000 seats? Those 2000 seats you speak of are causal fan's seats. Only winning is gonna bring them into the stadium. They have no idea who Al Golden is.

If you think coaches with head coaching experience are the only answer, then I guess Georgia, Maryland, Pitt, Miss St., South Carolina, etc., all got it wrong as well.

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

Dude some arguments are made and not intended to further man's consciousness. Sometimes they are just between a bunch of guys on a message board. Since you seem so fond of quotes.....

"Some times a cigar is just a cigar" -
Bill Clinton (or maybe Freud, I can never remember)

Dude, when posters are calling other posters ignorant because they are not of the same "opinion" then it is hardly a discussion... I was just highlighting that fact to those who fit in that category.


“Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman – or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle.” – George Burns

"Women make a good humidor..." - Bill Clinton (ok, maybe not)

 

[RUInsanity]

Chicago Glenn. You seem to feel that Golden would be a good or better option than Ash. What facts/data do you offer to support this point other than he has head coaching experience and NJ ties? His overall performance at Temple was mediocre based on his record. His performance at Miami was sub-standard based on the level of recruits that were there.

So your theory including all of the philosophical quotes boils down to bringing in a coach with a mediocre track record over an unproven guy. Since we've had mainly mediocre results at best over the past 15 years, why not take a risk for upside rather than shoot for someone who will likely keep you in the middle?

Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself; but talent instantly recognizes genious.

Arthur Conan Doyle

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

Al Golden? Seriously? You think he would have sold an extra 2000 seats? Those 2000 seats you speak of are causal fan's seats. Only winning is gonna bring them into the stadium. They have no idea who Al Golden is.

If you think coaches with head coaching experience are the only answer, then I guess Georgia, Maryland, Pitt, Miss St., South Carolina, etc., all got it wrong as well.

Um.....with Al Golden you would not have to sell any additional seats because you could have gotten him for the same price. And to ignore the fact that he had poached NJ recruits from Rutgers for years and had established connections with NJ coaches already is really ignoring the facts.

 

[Upstream]

Simple math. Need $1 mil more for a established coach - then only need 2,000 or less more fans in the seats a game to pay for it (average $80 per ticket holder for 6 games). For each million add 2,000 seats. Not rocket science.

CG --- I don't think your math is so simple. And I don't know where you get $80 per seat for 6 games. We schedule 7 home games, and the available season tickets are end-zone seats and upper level ends, which sell for $305 or $340 per season, including required donations. The expensive sideline seats have already been sold, so you can't sell them again.

This past season, Rutgers averaged 47,732 in attendance. But this was a drop from the 50,632 from last year. The drop in attendance was part of the justification for firing Flood and spending more on Ash. The expectation is that Ash will bring attendance back to where Flood had it last year.

Official capacity of the stadium is 52,454. So that means if Ash brings attendance to last year's level, there are still 1822 seats to go until the stadium is sold out. But those last seats to sell are the least desirable seats, which sell for $305 per season. So bringing in a Saban to sell-out the stadium would only yield an additional $555K in ticket revenue (including required donations). If you add additional parking revenue, that brings you to $580K.

So without expanding the stadium, significantly increasing ticket prices, or hoping people donate more, there is no way to get the additional millions to pay for high-priced coaches. You can certainly make the argument that Rutgers tickets are underpriced, and people would pay more and donate more for a high-priced coach. But you could also argue that the Rutgers fanbase has not evolved to the point where it could sustain higher prices and higher required donations, regardless of coach.

 

[Upstream]

So your theory including all of the philosophical quotes boils down to bringing in a coach with a mediocre track record over an unproven guy. Since we've had mainly mediocre results at best over the past 15 years, why not take a risk for upside rather than shoot for someone who will likely keep you in the middle?

That is really what the choice of Golden vs Ash boils down to. Golden has less risk, but also less upside. Ash has more risk, but also more upside.

 

[RUTBAY]

Dude, when posters are calling other posters ignorant because they are not of the same "opinion" then it is hardly a discussion... I was just highlighting that fact to those who fit in that category.


“Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman – or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle.” – George Burns

"Women make a good humidor..." - Bill Clinton (ok, maybe not)

Please take this as it is intended - a friendly suggestion.

Your expectations of what passes as acceptable banter on a sports message board is waaaaay too high. You spending so much time trying to raise the level of discourse makes me question your judgement.

Discuss with those willing to discuss. Argue with those who want to argue. Yell at those who only want to yell. Ignore the rest. You'll be much happier.

However far be it from me or anyone else to suggest to anyone what opinion to hold or how to express it. Me, I have no expectations here so I am rarely disappointed.

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

Chicago Glenn. You seem to feel that Golden would be a good or better option than Ash. What facts/data do you offer to support this point other than he has head coaching experience and NJ ties? His overall performance at Temple was mediocre based on his record. His performance at Miami was sub-standard based on the level of recruits that were there.

So your theory including all of the philosophical quotes boils down to bringing in a coach with a mediocre track record over an unproven guy. Since we've had mainly mediocre results at best over the past 15 years, why not take a risk for upside rather than shoot for someone who will likely keep you in the middle?

Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself; but talent instantly recognizes genious.

Arthur Conan Doyle

Golden was not at the top of my list. He was just an example of a low-cost alternative with NJ ties and a history of successful recruiting in the NJ area. He inherited a Miami program that was on probation (self-imposed his first two years and then NCAA imposed his last two). Hardly an ideal situation to succeed, yet he was attributed with bringing class and integrity to a program that was wrought with scandal. With Ash, what do you have? No record of success on the recruiting front or the head coaching front. He was an assistant DC at Ohio State. So, you have a hope and prayer. And, if Golden was so bad at Temple, why did Miami recruit him in the first place?

-CG

“But why diminish your soul being run-of-the-mill at something? Mediocrity: now there is ugliness for you. Mediocrity's a hairball coughed up on the Persian carpet of Creation.” - Tom Robbins

 

[ArminRU]

Um.....with Al Golden you would not have to sell any additional seats because you could have gotten him for the same price. And to ignore the fact that he had poached NJ recruits from Rutgers for years and had established connections with NJ coaches already is really ignoring the facts.

The same can be said for Richt as well, after you get over the fact that Richt was never coming here.

Al Golden has been poaching recruits from Rutgers? Not quite and certainly no more than Ash.

 

[ArminRU]

Golden was not at the top of my list. He was just an example of a low-cost alternative with NJ ties and a history of successful recruiting in the NJ area. He inherited a Miami program that was on probation (self-imposed his first two years and then NCAA imposed his last two). Hardly an ideal situation to succeed, yet he was attributed with bringing class and integrity to a program that was wrought with scandal. With Ash, what do you have? No record of success on the recruiting front or the head coaching front. He was an assistant DC at Ohio State. So, you have a hope and prayer. And, if Golden was so bad at Temple, why did Miami recruit him in the first place?

-CG

“But why diminish your soul being run-of-the-mill at something? Mediocrity: now there is ugliness for you. Mediocrity's a hairball coughed up on the Persian carpet of Creation.” - Tom Robbins

Who was at the top of your list? We're waiting.

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

Al Golden is a proven coach? Where? Temple? His successors have had just as much success. Miami? He failed brilliantly last year with 6 NFL draft picks on his team. He was run out of town midseason. Planes flew banners begging for him to be fired. Btw, Miami got to 8 wins this year, not Golden. After being fired, the team went 4-1. 2 of the 4 wins he had before being fired were to FAU and Bethune-Cookman. He NEVER beat a top 25 team while coaching Miami. Anyone can recruit players to the U. You can't swing a dead cat in Dade/Broward without hitting a 4 star football player that dreamed of playing there. Ash, though unproven, is certainly a worthwhile risk over Golden.

Lol. Just really can't stand the love for Golden by some.

As I mentioned in my last post, Golden was not at the top of my list, but certainly a viable candidate given his price tag, his ties to NJ and history of recruiting here. I also like the fact that he got tainted at Miami (buy low). He got a raw deal at Miami. He inherited a program under scandal and under a self-imposed sanctions (his first two years) and then NCAA sanctions (loss of 9 scholarships) for his last two years. Hardly ideal, but I will agree with you that he was not up to Miami's standards and their timeline for success is a lot shorter than Rutgers (BTW - from what I've read, he had 3 wins over AP Top 25 teams - so not sure NEVER is accurate, but none the less, 0-5 against Florida and not competitive with Clemson was the nail in his coffin - but I would not go so far to not give him credit for the last 4 wins and the 8-5 season. It was the same coaches and same system that he put in place that won those games. Things don't change over night).

As for Rutgers......well, Golden would be an improvement over Flood. As for Ash, there is no record to compare to because he has none. They keep mentioning one top recruit he was able to "lure" away from Arkansas to Ohio State as an example of his recruiting prowess. I would have thought there would be more. Al Golden certainly has more "direct" history at both Temple and Miami with regard to recruiting talent - not to mention in our own backyard.

Aside from defending the ability for GRUnit to present an opposing opinion, my overriding point is and has been that we are taking another shot at a needle in the haystack at a time when we should have tried to break the Rutgers tradition of going cheap and just tried for once in getting a coach who either had head coaching experience already with ties to NJ or one whose name alone would attract top talent and put fannies in the seats. Ash has neither of those qualities. While neither guarantee success, one banks on proven the other a hope and pray. We deserve better (IMHO).

-CG

P.S. I was going to post that Lincoln quote but felt it was too insulting. Also refrained from this one:

"If you go through life with your head in the sand, all people will see is an ass!"

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

Who was at the top of your list? We're waiting.

I can tell you who wasn't at the top of my list - Ash! As for the top of my list - Bo Pelini, then Schiano.....there you go.....I'm sure that will get some reaction......and money talks. When you open the purse, a lot of other names come into play but if you want to go cheap then you still have other more qualified candidates in Fleck, Golden, Christobal, etc.... But again, they were not on the top of my list just above Ash. That said, I want Ash to succeed and truly hope we have found another needle in the haystack - but we've been in that haystack all too often and most of the time we've come out with just hay.

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

I can tell you who wasn't at the top of my list - Ash! As for the top of my list - Bo Pelini, then Schiano.....there you go.....I'm sure that will get some reaction......and money talks. When you open the purse, a lot of other names come into play but if you want to go cheap then you still have other more qualified candidates in Fleck, Golden, Christobal, etc.... But again, they were not on the top of my list just above Ash. That said, I want Ash to succeed and truly hope we have found another needle in the haystack - but we've been in that haystack all too often and most of the time we've come out with just hay.

P.S. The wait is over.....

 

[Pritz99]

OMG, there can be reasonable discourse. Without namecalling and all that comes with it. The last page has been fun and enlightening. It's been confirmed why I didn't like Golden. Finances are never as obvious as it seems. I still wish we had hired Schiano. I'm behind Ash til I see why I shouldn't.

 

[RU85inFla]

Al makes some really good points. The bottom line is we are betting on Ash when Miami has a known commodity in Richt. To those that point to Golden as a counter to Al's argument I will point to our friends in Pennsylvania, they poached Franklin from Vandy. Great programs choose their new coaches from the universe of coaches, not the universe of unemployed head coaches and assistants. The way to hire an credible coach is to poach one or get extremely lucky like Miami who had a successful alum looking for a job with money not being the top priority. They way to poach a coach is to have alumni that contribute to the program like PSU does. Pretty simple.

No matter what the recruiting rankings are, Miami has been pretty close to Rutgers over the past number of years. The luster has long worn off and they are clearly seated as the third (sometimes 4th) best team in the state and certainly 3rd choice in a recruit's mind. Richt has instantly changed that perception.

I am very enthusiastic about Ash. On paper he has a resume far superior to Flood's and equal to Schiano. Will he be successful? We all hope so but nothing is guaranteed. We all figured Flood could be successful with the foundation Schiano left, that is up till the day we individually figured out the Flood had no clue.

 

[Rokodesh]

the boards obsession for Schiano and concern about the head coach having NJ ties show how small time the fan base is. Rutgers is now a national brand in the Big Ten, in the country's biggest market. A good football coach can sell the program anywhere. If you want to get to the rose bowl you don't hire a guy who just failed at Miami, the easiest place to recruit in the country, or a guy who reached his ceiling playing Cincy and Uconn in a lower-tier conference, for sentimental reasons.

Ash was the right hire, given his team performances, his organization skills, and career progression. Thank god Hobbs saw it that way too.

 

[RUonBrain]

I can tell you who wasn't at the top of my list - Ash!

As for the top of my list - Bo Pelini, then Schiano..

if you want to go cheap then you still have other more qualified candidates in Fleck, Golden, Christobal, etc.... But again, they were not on the top of my list just above Ash.

There it is folks.
The list of coaches who would have better than Ash.

"Your Honor - I rest my case.
This man knows not what he speaks of."

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

CG --- I don't think your math is so simple. And I don't know where you get $80 per seat for 6 games. We schedule 7 home games, and the available season tickets are end-zone seats and upper level ends, which sell for $305 or $340 per season, including required donations. The expensive sideline seats have already been sold, so you can't sell them again.

This past season, Rutgers averaged 47,732 in attendance. But this was a drop from the 50,632 from last year. The drop in attendance was part of the justification for firing Flood and spending more on Ash. The expectation is that Ash will bring attendance back to where Flood had it last year.

Official capacity of the stadium is 52,454. So that means if Ash brings attendance to last year's level, there are still 1822 seats to go until the stadium is sold out. But those last seats to sell are the least desirable seats, which sell for $305 per season. So bringing in a Saban to sell-out the stadium would only yield an additional $555K in ticket revenue (including required donations). If you add additional parking revenue, that brings you to $580K.

So without expanding the stadium, significantly increasing ticket prices, or hoping people donate more, there is no way to get the additional millions to pay for high-priced coaches. You can certainly make the argument that Rutgers tickets are underpriced, and people would pay more and donate more for a high-priced coach. But you could also argue that the Rutgers fanbase has not evolved to the point where it could sustain higher prices and higher required donations, regardless of coach.

Yes, those are the stats, but lets get under the hood a little bit. How many seats are given away (lost revenue)? Anyone who was at all the games saw plenty of open seats in many games (yes, they couldn't even give them away). Any open seat (or abandoned seat at half-time) means a decline in concessions, parking and other ancillary (but important) fees/revenue that adds up very quickly (my $80 was not just seat price). The rise in attendance the prior year was solely attributable to the Big Ten. The drop off this year, attributable to the coach and product on the field. Continue in that direction and it will cost you big time. Fill the stadium (5,000 seats) and maintain it and you easily pay for your coach. Yes, in the end, it will come down to the success of the coach and the product on the field. While the change of the coach (to Ash or anybody else) will likely stave off a further decline, but it likely isn't going to fill the stadium (with actual paying fans) the way a bigger name coach would and Ash won't have as much staying power if success isn't immediate (there are many less loyal who will quickly run to the same ol Rutgers mantra and stop going).

So, I'm not sure just using "reported" attendance is a true measure of revenue potential or loss and even if it was all paying (and staying) fans, there is still plenty of room for additional revenue to pay for a bigger name coach.

-CG

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

There it is folks.
The list of coaches who would have better than Ash.

"Your Honor - I rest my case.
This man knows not what he speaks of."

Hmmmm....which one isn't better than an unproven assistant DC with no head coaching experience, no proven recruiting track record and no ties to NJ. Hmmmm.....you should not have rested your case until you actually presented one....

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

The same can be said for Richt as well, after you get over the fact that Richt was never coming here.

Al Golden has been poaching recruits from Rutgers? Not quite and certainly no more than Ash.

While we are into naming names.....name one recruit that Ash (himself) has recruited from NJ. Not Urban. Not Ohio State. Ash himself.......I'm waiting.....

 

[thad23]

I can tell you who wasn't at the top of my list - Ash! As for the top of my list - Bo Pelini, then Schiano.....there you go.....I'm sure that will get some reaction......and money talks. When you open the purse, a lot of other names come into play but if you want to go cheap then you still have other more qualified candidates in Fleck, Golden, Christobal, etc.... But again, they were not on the top of my list just above Ash. That said, I want Ash to succeed and truly hope we have found another needle in the haystack - but we've been in that haystack all too often and most of the time we've come out with just hay.

Ok, ok. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Now, I think Pelini is a good coach, but doesn't have the public relations part of the job to succeed here with this media. I would've given it a shot, but fine we didn't.

You know how I feel about Golden! Lol.

Schiano wasn't coming back and we know what he is. He's a man I appreciate greatly for what he did here, but I don't think he's a great head coach. Good coach? Yes, but again, not disappointed he wasn't hired.

Fleck is not ready to be on this stage and I don't know if he ever will be. He was never a coordinator and that concerns me. He has recruited very well for Westen Michigan but does he have the chops to go against Franklin, Meyer, Harbaugh, etc.? Ash has the hardware and resume to go toe to toe with these guys...he was thought so highly of, Bielema & Meyer hired them and went to rose bowls and a national championship!

Cristobal is a line coach, not coordinator, albeit at a very good program. No one offered him a HC job since FIU. He hasn't moved up the ladder since arriving at Alabama. Again, can he bring an identity to RU from an X's and O's point of view. And he had his chance here, but tried to leverage for more salary and that's how we wound up with Flood. Not sold on him.

I can't recall who was on my list at this point. Babers was one that intrigued me. Rumors of Rich Rod wanting to come back east had me intrigued. Mullen was my dream choice,but knew it was just that. Way, way too much money to bring him here. I wanted someone who had an expertise on one side of the ball. We got that in Ash. And Ash was not someone I had considered, but I have grown to really like him and willing to support him 100%.

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

I'm done here.....see you in another few years. In the meantime, talk among yourselves.....or attack GRUnit again (which is why I jumped on in the first place). Whether you like it or not, there is a role for dissenting opinions on this board and they should be free from insult. But it is funny how thin skinned some of those who throw the insults around (like calling someone an idiot) when it comes flying back at them.

Back to being productive.

Peace out!

-CG

 

[Rokodesh]

While we are into naming names.....name one recruit that Ash (himself) has recruited from NJ. Not Urban. Not Ohio State. Ash himself.......I'm waiting.....

this makes no sense.

Is a coach supposed to go rogue and disassociate from his school while recruiting? Ash wasn't responsible for NJ recruiting. Did any of Flood's assistants tell the commits they were NOT recruiting for Rutgers but for themselves? They all work together.

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

Ok, ok. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Now, I think Pelini is a good coach, but doesn't have the public relations part of the job to succeed here with this media. I would've given it a shot, but fine we didn't.

You know how I feel about Golden! Lol.

Schiano wasn't coming back and we know what he is. He's a man I appreciate greatly for what he did here, but I don't think he's a great head coach. Good coach? Yes, but again, not disappointed he wasn't hired.

Fleck is not ready to be on this stage and I don't know if he ever will be. He was never a coordinator and that concerns me. He has recruited very well for Westen Michigan but does he have the chops to go against Franklin, Meyer, Harbaugh, etc.? Ash has the hardware and resume to go toe to toe with these guys...he was thought so highly of, Bielema & Meyer hired them and went to rose bowls and a national championship!

Cristobal is a line coach, not coordinator, albeit at a very good program. No one offered him a HC job since FIU. He hasn't moved up the ladder since arriving at Alabama. Again, can he bring an identity to RU from an X's and O's point of view. And he had his chance here, but tried to leverage for more salary and that's how we wound up with Flood. Not sold on him.

I can't recall who was on my list at this point. Babers was one that intrigued me. Rumors of Rich Rod wanting to come back east had me intrigued. Mullen was my dream choice,but knew it was just that. Way, way too much money to bring him here. I wanted someone who had an expertise on one side of the ball. We got that in Ash. And Ash was not someone I had considered, but I have grown to really like him and willing to support him 100%.

Ok, one more reply - I like your reply...finally someone who presented something that isn't just based on emotion. Your logic and analysis is right on point. All things I've considered. I just think we took the cheap route again, as though we accept the fact that we can't get a big name coach here. By the way - I also know for a fact (know the family) we blew an opportunity to get Dan Quinn here (when we hired Flood) because we never approached him or even considered him. NJ native with strong NJ ties, successful at both the college and pro level. Would have been much better than Flood and would not have been expensive. Our short-sightedness sometimes has us missing some opportunities. That said, I'm hoping Ash is successful.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I really only joined in on this because I took offense to how some replied to GRUnit and calling him an idiot. No call for that. The rest is all good debate as long as it stays away from insults because of dissenting opinions.

Happy New Year!

-CG

 

[njknightsfan]

Ok, one more reply - I like your reply...finally someone who presented something that isn't just based on emotion. Your logic and analysis is right on point. All things I've considered. I just think we took the cheap route again, as though we accept the fact that we can't get a big name coach here. By the way - I also know for a fact (know the family) we blew an opportunity to get Dan Quinn here (when we hired Flood) because we never approached him or even considered him. NJ native with strong NJ ties, successful at both the college and pro level. Would have been much better than Flood and would not have been expensive. Our short-sightedness sometimes has us missing some opportunities. That said, I'm hoping Ash is successful.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I really only joined in on this because I took offense to how some replied to GRUnit and calling him an idiot. No call for that. The rest is all good debate as long as it stays away from insults because of dissenting opinions.

Happy New Year!

-CG

Here are the facts on Golden:

Year School G W L T Pct SRS SOS AP Pre AP High AP Post Bowl Notes
2006 Temple 12 1 11 0 .083 -17.90 -0.40
2007 Temple 12 4 8 0 .333 -14.76 -7.01
2008 Temple 12 5 7 0 .417 -3.38 -4.05
2009 Temple 13 9 4 0 .692 -2.36 -8.29 EagleBank Bowl-L
2010 Temple 12 8 4 0 .667 -3.39 -8.14
2011 Miami (FL) 12 6 6 0 .500 5.17 0.67
2012 Miami (FL) 12 7 5 0 .583 4.07 2.32
2013 Miami (FL) 13 9 4 0 .692 6.59 2.51 7 Russell Athletic Bowl-L
2014 Miami (FL) 13 6 7 0 .462 8.04 4.65 Independence Bowl-L
2015 Miami (FL) 7 4 3 0 .571 6.05 3.74
Overall 118 59 59 0 .500 -1.19 -1.40
Temple 61 27 34 0 .443 -8.36 -5.58
Miami (FL) 57 32 25 0 .561 5.98 2.78

Five years at Miami with exceptional talent and he was 32-25, he's overall record is .500 - 59-59. He may be a good recruiter but seems to be an average game day coach. As someone pointed out, being a good recruiter at Miami and at RU are 2 different animals.

I for one like the staff Ash has put together, on the most part, young, energetic, up and coming coaches who have coached at some great programs under some great head coaches. I can't wait to see what type of offense we run and by all indication it going to be a form of a spread which I can't wait to see. As far as recruiting goes, I checked the Twitter accounts and who the new coaches are following and it seems they were able to identify key players in NJ/PA/NY, it's a small indication on who the coaches are targeting and building relationships with.

At the end of the day, I would rather take a risk on young, hungry coaches coming from winning programs and not recycle someone we know what their upside is.

 

[REDRICH65]

It's a Jersey thing. Happens when you crowd all those people into a small state. Like a train in India or China.

 

[chase07470]

While we are into naming names.....name one recruit that Ash (himself) has recruited from NJ. Not Urban. Not Ohio State. Ash himself.......I'm waiting.....

No one on your list was a better hire than Ash except Schiano. He isn't coming here. And Bo Pellini, are you kidding me? With all the trouble we've had with the media, you wanted the loosest of all loose cannons? That's crazy.

And what does recruiting NJ have to do with anything? Recruiting is about selling opportunity, program momentum, and excitement. Ash has filled bios staff with young guys who can do that. After their first meeting with a kid, it doesn't matter whether they ever recruited NJ before. It starts there, the relationship evolves and they win the kid or they don't.

Golden guaranteed nothing. He did decent job recruiting NJ but he did that when he was young and looked cool. He's now into his fat elvis years, just another loud, middle age, schlumpy guy. He would have been dead on arrival. Thank God we didn't do that.

As for Ash being a risk, he was so good at Wisconsin, Arkansas threw a boat load of money at him. Then Urban Meyer surveyed the college landscape and chose him to win a national championship, which he did, shutting down Alabama, Oregon and everyone else on that schedule for two years.

Risk is Pellini going off. Risk is Fleck not being a coordinator, nailing a bunch or oars around campus and hoping a four star recruit gives a crap. Risk isn't hiring a proven, national coach with the ability to out scheme just about anyone and the leadership persona fitting of a guy that can lead a program.

Now if you had said, Mullen or Chip Kelly, I would have agreed with you.

 

[G- RUnit]

Thank you Chicago for some intelligent discourse. I too would have prefered head coaching experience. Almost every recent B1G hire has been some one with head coaching experience. Urban, Harbaugh, Franklin, Dantonio, Hazel, Beckman, etc. Previously successful coaches are just as hungry and have experience. B1G schools usually don't provide on the job training.

RU and Maryland have taken a different route. Maryland recognizing how valuable experience is, has hired two former Eastern Div 1 coaches(UVA) (Cuse) and lured a third(Ball State). Those are impressive hires.

RU hired an assistant coach from Western Illinois/Fort Hayes/Winona? The only Winona I want to read about is Ryder. Another hire is a graduate assistant getting his first full time job? No Northeast hires yet either. Sorry but why do they have better upsides then proven experienced people? Certainly raises eyebrows.

All season long there were rumors of Fleck, Mullen and Chip Kelly. What actually happened to those three? Kelly was in fact fired.

Lots of other good candidate with experience out there. Al Golden did get an extremely raw deal at the U. He went to a school with sanctions and a cess pool and got it back on track. Miami's finish shows what a good coach he was. He is local, has a proven record of success and could have hit the ground running.

Campbell, at Iowa State (Chose him over native Iowan Ash) and Babers were scooped up quickly and both went to right to work despite their teams being in bowls.

Bob Diaco had the right resume, NJ roots and has already shown he could turn around UConn.

Bob Belini would have been a great exciting fun hire. Ex Nebraska coaches do well. Look at Solich! He would be hungry!

If we want to wait for OSU coaches to take their time getting here, why not go all in and make a run at Tressel.

Cristobal did build a program from scratch, has RU experience, FLA recruiting, and Alabama has been better then OSU over the last ten years. Did he get a serious look?

If you want retreads, Bob Davies has national recognition and turned around the disaster that was New Mexico. Certainly he would have been worth a look.

If the rumors of Wanny wanting the Illini job are true, shouldn't we have inquired. Greast recruiter and Northeast connections. Infectous on B1G network. His record is actually quite good.

Finally the man who built this program Coach Schiano!!! I think RU fans deserve to know what the real deal was.

Coach Ash gave a great press conference, Urban obviously loves him, OSU are winners, and he has impressive Div 1 experience. Love his enthusiam and does appear to be Schiano-lite so hopefully we get lucky again. But also very risky and by far the most unproven hire.

Finally, having never having been a head coach, I do not think Hobbs should have ever let him dictate terms of his arrival. Continue to believe that was wrong. Tweeting pictures of OSU arriving is unseemly and adds wounds to RU. I also think a coach under Urban, with all the wake and mess he has left behind, should be careful about labeling the team he should be coaching as a, "Perception of Disaster" And if you truly believe that perception, you should be here yesterday. Fight or Flight!

Finally this is a board, stop attacking loyal RU fans who have a difference of opinion. Go RU!

 

[chase07470]

Thank you Chicago for some intelligent discourse. I too would have prefered head coaching experience. Almost every recent B1G hire has been some one with head coaching experience. Urban, Harbaugh, Franklin, Dantonio, Hazel, Beckman, etc. Previously successful coaches are just as hungry and have experience. B1G schools usually don't provide on the job training.

RU and Maryland have taken a different route. Maryland recognizing how valuable experience is, has hired two former Eastern Div 1 coaches(UVA) (Cuse) and lured a third(Ball State). Those are impressive hires.

RU hired an assistant coach from Western Illinois/Fort Hayes/Winona? The only Winona I want to read about is Ryder. Another hire is a graduate assistant getting his first full time job? No Northeast hires yet either. Sorry but why do they have better upsides then proven experienced people? Certainly raises eyebrows.

All season long there were rumors of Fleck, Mullen and Chip Kelly. What actually happened to those three? Kelly was in fact fired.

Lots of other good candidate with experience out there. Al Golden did get an extremely raw deal at the U. He went to a school with sanctions and a cess pool and got it back on track. Miami's finish shows what a good coach he was. He is local, has a proven record of success and could have hit the ground running.

Campbell, at Iowa State (Chose him over native Iowan Ash) and Babers were scooped up quickly and both went to right to work despite their teams being in bowls.

Bob Diaco had the right resume, NJ roots and has already shown he could turn around UConn.

Bob Belini would have been a great exciting fun hire. Ex Nebraska coaches do well. Look at Solich! He would be hungry!

If we want to wait for OSU coaches to take their time getting here, why not go all in and make a run at Tressel.

Cristobal did build a program from scratch, has RU experience, FLA recruiting, and Alabama has been better then OSU over the last ten years. Did he get a serious look?

If you want retreads, Bob Davies has national recognition and turned around the disaster that was New Mexico. Certainly he would have been worth a look.

If the rumors of Wanny wanting the Illini job are true, shouldn't we have inquired. Greast recruiter and Northeast connections. Infectous on B1G network. His record is actually quite good.

Finally the man who built this program Coach Schiano!!! I think RU fans deserve to know what the real deal was.

Coach Ash gave a great press conference, Urban obviously loves him, OSU are winners, and he has impressive Div 1 experience. Love his enthusiam and does appear to be Schiano-lite so hopefully we get lucky again. But also very risky and by far the most unproven hire.

Finally, having never having been a head coach, I do not think Hobbs should have ever let him dictate terms of his arrival. Continue to believe that was wrong. Tweeting pictures of OSU arriving is unseemly and adds wounds to RU. I also think a coach under Urban, with all the wake and mess he has left behind, should be careful about labeling the team he should be coaching as a, "Perception of Disaster" And if you truly believe that perception, you should be here yesterday. Fight or Flight!

Finally this is a board, stop attacking loyal RU fans who have a difference of opinion. Go RU!

No attack, just a question...you say yourself that Ash has the potential to be a great hire. Why not just support him and zip it?

He wasn't on my list either but in learning about his absolute commitment to understanding the schematics of football, his relentless pursuit on knowledge from some of the best coaches in college football and hearing and seeing the way he comes across as a person....he's a perfect coach for NJ and Rutgers. It's all going to be fine, just sit back and watch it unfold.

 

[njknightsfan]

Thank you Chicago for some intelligent discourse. I too would have prefered head coaching experience. Almost every recent B1G hire has been some one with head coaching experience. Urban, Harbaugh, Franklin, Dantonio, Hazel, Beckman, etc. Previously successful coaches are just as hungry and have experience. B1G schools usually don't provide on the job training.

RU and Maryland have taken a different route. Maryland recognizing how valuable experience is, has hired two former Eastern Div 1 coaches(UVA) (Cuse) and lured a third(Ball State). Those are impressive hires.

RU hired an assistant coach from Western Illinois/Fort Hayes/Winona? The only Winona I want to read about is Ryder. Another hire is a graduate assistant getting his first full time job? No Northeast hires yet either. Sorry but why do they have better upsides then proven experienced people? Certainly raises eyebrows.

All season long there were rumors of Fleck, Mullen and Chip Kelly. What actually happened to those three? Kelly was in fact fired.

Lots of other good candidate with experience out there. Al Golden did get an extremely raw deal at the U. He went to a school with sanctions and a cess pool and got it back on track. Miami's finish shows what a good coach he was. He is local, has a proven record of success and could have hit the ground running.

Campbell, at Iowa State (Chose him over native Iowan Ash) and Babers were scooped up quickly and both went to right to work despite their teams being in bowls.

Bob Diaco had the right resume, NJ roots and has already shown he could turn around UConn.

Bob Belini would have been a great exciting fun hire. Ex Nebraska coaches do well. Look at Solich! He would be hungry!

If we want to wait for OSU coaches to take their time getting here, why not go all in and make a run at Tressel.

Cristobal did build a program from scratch, has RU experience, FLA recruiting, and Alabama has been better then OSU over the last ten years. Did he get a serious look?

If you want retreads, Bob Davies has national recognition and turned around the disaster that was New Mexico. Certainly he would have been worth a look.

If the rumors of Wanny wanting the Illini job are true, shouldn't we have inquired. Greast recruiter and Northeast connections. Infectous on B1G network. His record is actually quite good.

Finally the man who built this program Coach Schiano!!! I think RU fans deserve to know what the real deal was.

Coach Ash gave a great press conference, Urban obviously loves him, OSU are winners, and he has impressive Div 1 experience. Love his enthusiam and does appear to be Schiano-lite so hopefully we get lucky again. But also very risky and by far the most unproven hire.

Finally, having never having been a head coach, I do not think Hobbs should have ever let him dictate terms of his arrival. Continue to believe that was wrong. Tweeting pictures of OSU arriving is unseemly and adds wounds to RU. I also think a coach under Urban, with all the wake and mess he has left behind, should be careful about labeling the team he should be coaching as a, "Perception of Disaster" And if you truly believe that perception, you should be here yesterday. Fight or Flight!

Finally this is a board, stop attacking loyal RU fans who have a difference of opinion. Go RU!

Listen, it is what it is and in couple of days Ash will be full time at RU. even working part time, he has done a great job in assembling a staff, the results will speak for themselves on who did it right, MD or RU? I can see questioning Ash for still coaching for Ohio St. if he didn't spend anytime at RU but the results indicate the opposite. Looks like he may have filled the coaching staff, the remaining coaches probably will be announced after the Bowl Games or NFL season. I see definite upgrades in staff from what we had from Flood's staff. I like the direction of the program and if you heard Hobbs, they had a list of coaches they interviewed but Ash blew them away and to me, so far, looks like a great choice.

 

[Phi_1055]

Is the fanbase really that interested in the hire or are you guys just arguing with each other in the comments section just because?

Now you know.

 

[ArminRU]

I can tell you who wasn't at the top of my list - Ash! As for the top of my list - Bo Pelini, then Schiano.....there you go.....I'm sure that will get some reaction......and money talks. When you open the purse, a lot of other names come into play but if you want to go cheap then you still have other more qualified candidates in Fleck, Golden, Christobal, etc.... But again, they were not on the top of my list just above Ash. That said, I want Ash to succeed and truly hope we have found another needle in the haystack - but we've been in that haystack all too often and most of the time we've come out with just hay.

Yes, the DC from the defending national champs is such a needle. I guess that means your lover boy Schiano is now a needle.

Bo Pelini is not bad, but not a fit for us.

Ash is miles ahead of the other guys you mentioned. Ash can run circles around Golden.

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

Here are the facts on Golden:

Year School G W L T Pct SRS SOS AP Pre AP High AP Post Bowl Notes
2006 Temple 12 1 11 0 .083 -17.90 -0.40
2007 Temple 12 4 8 0 .333 -14.76 -7.01
2008 Temple 12 5 7 0 .417 -3.38 -4.05
2009 Temple 13 9 4 0 .692 -2.36 -8.29 EagleBank Bowl-L
2010 Temple 12 8 4 0 .667 -3.39 -8.14
2011 Miami (FL) 12 6 6 0 .500 5.17 0.67
2012 Miami (FL) 12 7 5 0 .583 4.07 2.32
2013 Miami (FL) 13 9 4 0 .692 6.59 2.51 7 Russell Athletic Bowl-L
2014 Miami (FL) 13 6 7 0 .462 8.04 4.65 Independence Bowl-L
2015 Miami (FL) 7 4 3 0 .571 6.05 3.74
Overall 118 59 59 0 .500 -1.19 -1.40
Temple 61 27 34 0 .443 -8.36 -5.58
Miami (FL) 57 32 25 0 .561 5.98 2.78

Five years at Miami with exceptional talent and he was 32-25, he's overall record is .500 - 59-59. He may be a good recruiter but seems to be an average game day coach. As someone pointed out, being a good recruiter at Miami and at RU are 2 different animals.

I for one like the staff Ash has put together, on the most part, young, energetic, up and coming coaches who have coached at some great programs under some great head coaches. I can't wait to see what type of offense we run and by all indication it going to be a form of a spread which I can't wait to see. As far as recruiting goes, I checked the Twitter accounts and who the new coaches are following and it seems they were able to identify key players in NJ/PA/NY, it's a small indication on who the coaches are targeting and building relationships with.

At the end of the day, I would rather take a risk on young, hungry coaches coming from winning programs and not recycle someone we know what their upside is.

Just when I thought I was out they pull me back in, but I can't let misleading "facts" hang out there as though they tell the full story. As I've said before, Golden was not my first choice but I can't let misleading facts be used to justify Ash over him. Calling Golden a .500 coach of Luke be no different than calling Schiano just a .500 coach. We all that isn't true (beyond the numbers stating it is). Golden, like Schiano, inherited a doormat of a Temple program and turned it into a respectable one. You can't count the early rebuilding years against him no more than you can against Schiano. The reason he and Schiano became got commodities was because of what they accomplished on the back end not the front end. Ridiculous to say otherwise. Golden (like Schiano) were them lured to bigger name programs that were in total disarray. Miami hasn't won a National title in 15 years. Others had failed there before Golden without the sanctions and lost scholarships he had to deal with (inherited from his predecessor). He helped clean up the mess which was needed but it didn't result in enough wins. Like Schiano in Tampa, the fans were hungry and he didn't deliver fast enough and he was let go. Fair? I think not given what he inherited and also very unfair to say he is just a .500 coach (as it would be to call Schiano just a .500 coach).

There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics.

-CG

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

Thank you Chicago for some intelligent discourse. I too would have prefered head coaching experience. Almost every recent B1G hire has been some one with head coaching experience. Urban, Harbaugh, Franklin, Dantonio, Hazel, Beckman, etc. Previously successful coaches are just as hungry and have experience. B1G schools usually don't provide on the job training.

RU and Maryland have taken a different route. Maryland recognizing how valuable experience is, has hired two former Eastern Div 1 coaches(UVA) (Cuse) and lured a third(Ball State). Those are impressive hires.

RU hired an assistant coach from Western Illinois/Fort Hayes/Winona? The only Winona I want to read about is Ryder. Another hire is a graduate assistant getting his first full time job? No Northeast hires yet either. Sorry but why do they have better upsides then proven experienced people? Certainly raises eyebrows.

All season long there were rumors of Fleck, Mullen and Chip Kelly. What actually happened to those three? Kelly was in fact fired.

Lots of other good candidate with experience out there. Al Golden did get an extremely raw deal at the U. He went to a school with sanctions and a cess pool and got it back on track. Miami's finish shows what a good coach he was. He is local, has a proven record of success and could have hit the ground running.

Campbell, at Iowa State (Chose him over native Iowan Ash) and Babers were scooped up quickly and both went to right to work despite their teams being in bowls.

Bob Diaco had the right resume, NJ roots and has already shown he could turn around UConn.

Bob Belini would have been a great exciting fun hire. Ex Nebraska coaches do well. Look at Solich! He would be hungry!

If we want to wait for OSU coaches to take their time getting here, why not go all in and make a run at Tressel.

Cristobal did build a program from scratch, has RU experience, FLA recruiting, and Alabama has been better then OSU over the last ten years. Did he get a serious look?

If you want retreads, Bob Davies has national recognition and turned around the disaster that was New Mexico. Certainly he would have been worth a look.

If the rumors of Wanny wanting the Illini job are true, shouldn't we have inquired. Greast recruiter and Northeast connections. Infectous on B1G network. His record is actually quite good.

Finally the man who built this program Coach Schiano!!! I think RU fans deserve to know what the real deal was.

Coach Ash gave a great press conference, Urban obviously loves him, OSU are winners, and he has impressive Div 1 experience. Love his enthusiam and does appear to be Schiano-lite so hopefully we get lucky again. But also very risky and by far the most unproven hire.

Finally, having never having been a head coach, I do not think Hobbs should have ever let him dictate terms of his arrival. Continue to believe that was wrong. Tweeting pictures of OSU arriving is unseemly and adds wounds to RU. I also think a coach under Urban, with all the wake and mess he has left behind, should be careful about labeling the team he should be coaching as a, "Perception of Disaster" And if you truly believe that perception, you should be here yesterday. Fight or Flight!

Finally this is a board, stop attacking loyal RU fans who have a difference of opinion. Go RU!

Great post! Not sure there is anything in your post that I disagree with and laid out in a factual and respectful manner. Bravo!

-CG

 

[derleider]

That is really what the choice of Golden vs Ash boils down to. Golden has less risk, but also less upside. Ash has more risk, but also more upside.

This is more or less it. And reality is that at the end of the day either choice would likely have ended up with us in the same place - fighting with MD and Indiana for the bottom of the division.

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

No one on your list was a better hire than Ash except Schiano. He isn't coming here. And Bo Pellini, are you kidding me? With all the trouble we've had with the media, you wanted the loosest of all loose cannons? That's crazy.

And what does recruiting NJ have to do with anything? Recruiting is about selling opportunity, program momentum, and excitement. Ash has filled bios staff with young guys who can do that. After their first meeting with a kid, it doesn't matter whether they ever recruited NJ before. It starts there, the relationship evolves and they win the kid or they don't.

Golden guaranteed nothing. He did decent job recruiting NJ but he did that when he was young and looked cool. He's now into his fat elvis years, just another loud, middle age, schlumpy guy. He would have been dead on arrival. Thank God we didn't do that.

As for Ash being a risk, he was so good at Wisconsin, Arkansas threw a boat load of money at him. Then Urban Meyer surveyed the college landscape and chose him to win a national championship, which he did, shutting down Alabama, Oregon and everyone else on that schedule for two years.

Risk is Pellini going off. Risk is Fleck not being a coordinator, nailing a bunch or oars around campus and hoping a four star recruit gives a crap. Risk isn't hiring a proven, national coach with the ability to out scheme just about anyone and the leadership persona fitting of a guy that can lead a program.

Now if you had said, Mullen or Chip Kelly, I would have agreed with you.

As I said - we went with the low reputational risk but high performance risk co-defensive coordinator over coaches with potential reputational risk. I like successful head coaches I guess and with that usually comes some personality. Bo was the victim of Nebraska's rich history and success. 9+ wins a year was not good enough there (but it would be a vast improvement here). For that, I take the personality. Wins have a funny way of making people forget about personality flaws and in some cases causes fans to accept them as needed to get to next level.

You are correct that Mullen and Kelly would be on my list. I didn't list all the ones I would consider - I just listed my top two based on what I thought was achievable and caveated the rest of the big name coaches in a blanket statement that said a whole lot of coaches would be on the list if we opened our wallet. Then I listed the low cost alternatives with head coaching experience and Jersey ties that I thought were better candidates than Ash.

I am truly hoping Ash will be a success but to say he was the best coach we could get is the inherent problem with the program and why we went with Flood - and we all know how successful that the was.

Now back to the basketball game. Hanging in with Indiana. RAC is decently packed except for student section because of the break. Let's hope second half is as good or two points better.

Go RU!

-CG

 

[rutgersal]

This is more or less it. And reality is that at the end of the day either choice would likely have ended up with us in the same place - fighting with MD and Indiana for the bottom of the division.

I disagree. What's the evidence that Ash has a higher upside than Golden? Ash has no head coaching record from which we can judge so the jury is out on that one. With the talent that OSU has, any good coach is going to look especially good there. With either Golden or Christobal, you minimize the amount of change the program has to go through and fix the areas which need fixing. I was opposed to Golden, at the time, but I can now see the wisdom of hiring him. You would hope that Golden would have learned from his mistakes, whereas Ash is going to make mistakes these next few years, which he hopefully will learn quickly from. Golden is a known commodity, especially with the north jersey parochials, who he heavily recruited for Boston College.

IMO, this's semester we're going to see a size able amount of transfers because of the amount of change that is going to be required to transform Rutgers into what Ash wants. Hopefully this leads to better results, but we shall see.