Is our defense becoming Elite?

[RUHouston]

I realize we are still a work in progress but given our level of play this season, for the most part and not withstanding a few games, are we becoming an Elite team on defense?

Even with the departure of Gene and graduation of Shaq it seems, to me, we may actually be better now than at this point last season.

Thoughts?

 

[RU23]

36th in the country, so good. But not elite. Virginia is ELITE. Ohio State is elite. Purdue appears elite. Probably a few others I’m missing. We’re not there yet.

 

[superfan01]

We play hard. But let’s see us play a big ten schedule until you call it elite.

Though it’s certainly improved from our last coach

 

[goru7]

I realize we are still a work in progress but given our level of play this season, for the most part and not withstanding a few games, are we becoming an Elite team on defense?

Even with the departure of Gene and graduation of Shaq it seems, to me, we may actually be better now than at this point last season.

Thoughts?

We played elite defense these last 2 games against Wisconsin and Seton Hall, especially shutting down Brice and Davidson and then Myles Powell early and the other Seton Hall guards until McKnight hit a couple of threes. Our interior and help defense was also outstanding. Michigan State the defense was pretty solid as well as the refs took Myles out of the game making it more difficult. The defense against Pitt and their guards was atrocious . I can truly say we are trending towards elite and we have to bring that level of intensity because our defense leads to easy transition points and jump starts the offense. It has helped getting out to 9-0 leads in the last 2 games.

 

[Scarlet Blind]

I think the key to making rotations work this year was when Pike moved McConnell a 3 to the bench, Harper from 4 to 3 and moving Yeboah to the starting line up at 4 after the Mich. St. game. They have started strong with this starting lineup against Wisc. 9-0 and SHU 14-0 and 26-5. I think we will become one the better defensive team in the country with just that simple move.

 

[wheezer]

I believe we would have beaten SHU with Powell playing, on that given day.....but if he was healthy and played the entire game, it would have been a better
measure of our defense.... they most certainly would have scored more

 

[RUChoppin]

We have yet to face a strong team with multiple strong bigs, so it remains to be seen.

We did a good job limiting Reuvers' touches vs. Wisconsin, but foul trouble helped us there, too.
Nebraska is very guard heavy, which plays into the strength of our defense, I'd think.
Penn State has both Stevens and Watkins, so it'll be interesting to see how well we match up there - neither of those guys are the size that Mathis/Young would usually stick with and shut down.
Illinois then has both Cockburn and Bezhanishvili, which will be a tough matchup for us in the post.

When Johnson stays out of foul trouble, he's a defensive force in the middle. Harper's wingspan helps compensate a bit when giving up a few inches of height. The question on how good our defense is will come down to the strength of Carter/Doucoure as depth, imo.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I believe we would have beaten SHU with Powell playing, on that given day.....but if he was healthy and played the entire game, it would have been a better
measure of our defense.... they most certainly would have scored more

I said at halftime, before knowing what was going on with Powell, that we need Seton Hall to put Powell back in the game. They went on a run to get back in to the game with Powell on the bench.

 

[wheezer]

I said at halftime, before knowing what was going on with Powell, that we need Seton Hall to put Powell back in the game. They went on a run to get back in to the game with Powell on the bench.

---
of course we will never know, but, with Powell in, I could easily see the Hall getting within 5-7 points in the second half, then, who knows?....I did not know he was out for the rest of the game, and I told the wife the first 3 minutes of the second half were critical, figuring Powell would make some noise....

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Looking at the ADJUSTED defensive efficiency scores.....

we are 105.33 away from the RAC
we are 83.01 at the RAC

A 105.33 score would be 302nd
A 83.01 score would be ELITE (in all CAPS) #2 behind 79.5 Virginia

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

---
of course we will never know, but, with Powell in, I could easily see the Hall getting within 5-7 points in the second half, then, who knows?....I did not know he was out for the rest of the game, and I told the wife the first 3 minutes of the second half were critical, figuring Powell would make some noise....

That's at least what I was thinking. I will respect the argument that they didn't have the big guy as an excuse. I am not buying the Powell argument. The game was decided when he was on the court. We totally took him out of it AND he was taking bad shots.

I am not certain against some teams they are better with Powell on the floor.

 

[wheezer]

That's at least what I was thinking. I will respect the argument that they didn't have the big guy as an excuse. I am not buying the Powell argument. The game was decided when he was on the court. We totally took him out of it AND he was taking bad shots.

I am not certain against some teams they are better with Powell on the floor.

----
as I mentioned before, he has had games where he was almost non-existent in the first half, and got it really going in the second..

I am certainly not trying to minimize our win, but I have tremendous respect for how he can
carry the hall at times... as I said, we will never know..

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

----
as I mentioned before, he has had games where he was almost non-existent in the first half, and got it really going in the second..

I am certainly not trying to minimize our win, but I have tremendous respect for how he can
carry the hall at times... as I said, we will never know..

I see the numbers supporting what you say. I wonder how many of those games had Mathis/Young-like guy in his face dialed in.

I guess all of that doesn't preclude Powell to still get going working of screens and hitting NBA shots that it doesn't matter who is guarding him.

 

[RUHouston]

I see the numbers supporting what you say. I wonder how many of those games had Mathis/Young-like guy in his face dialed in.

I guess all of that doesn't preclude Powell to still get going working of screens and hitting NBA shots that it doesn't matter who is guarding him.

After re-watching the charge when he hit his head I was paying more attention to him and he didn’t seem his normal self but he was still playing ok...concussions are odd like that...

 

[BillyC80]

The thing about having Powell in the game is that it gave our defense a focus.

Before the game started, Pike would have told the team, be sure you all know where Powell is at all times, and let’s do our best to keep the ball out of his hands so that he’ll want to force up bad shots when he does get the ball.

Once he sat down, that defensive focus was removed. Fortunately for us, without Powell they are not a top 25 team, especially offensively, so we were able to open up and maintain our lead in the second half.

 

[RUChoppin]

After re-watching the charge when he hit his head I was paying more attention to him and he didn’t seem his normal self but he was still playing ok...concussions are odd like that...

Once concussed, you are in a highly susceptible state for additional impacts, too - which is why it's so important to get players out of action as soon as a concussion is identified (i.e., using the protocol). That initial hit could very easily have been exacerbated by continued high-level activity (stops/starts, rapid direction changes, head fakes, etc), and each successive light bump/impact (screens, defense, etc) he experienced as the game continued.

The initial floor impact could have "rung his bell" a bit, but been something he felt he could play through and get past. The effect of each small jostle after that could have built up to a point where he became disoriented, at which point someone noticed enough to get him into the protocol.

Concussions suck - hope he is able to bounce back from this one.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

After re-watching the charge when he hit his head I was paying more attention to him and he didn’t seem his normal self but he was still playing ok...concussions are odd like that...

when was the charge in the game?

 

[RUChoppin]

when was the charge in the game?

Very early. Within the first 4 min, he took a hard charge from Mathis that sent him back into the paint where his head hit the floor. A bit later, he collided with his own man while playing defense. Both times you saw him reach his hand to his head and look a bit out of it. After that, I think the rest of the first half started to have a snowball effect as he tried to play through it.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Very early. Within the first 4 min, he took a hard charge from Mathis that sent him back into the paint where his head hit the floor. A bit later, he collided with his own man while playing defense. Both times you saw him reach his hand to his head and look a bit out of it. After that, I think the rest of the first half started to have a snowball effect as he tried to play through it.

interesting....nix everything I said then

 

[fbc1866]

Asked that question in late January.

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

The trajectory is strong . If Pike steals from the Bennet playbook then we may get there. But we will need1 if not 2 active shooters to make it work.

 

[wheezer]

Once concussed, you are in a highly susceptible state for additional impacts, too - which is why it's so important to get players out of action as soon as a concussion is identified (i.e., using the protocol). That initial hit could very easily have been exacerbated by continued high-level activity (stops/starts, rapid direction changes, head fakes, etc), and each successive light bump/impact (screens, defense, etc) he experienced as the game continued.

The initial floor impact could have "rung his bell" a bit, but been something he felt he could play through and get past. The effect of each small jostle after that could have built up to a point where he became disoriented, at which point someone noticed enough to get him into the protocol.

Concussions suck - hope he is able to bounce back from this one.

this..... some fans questioning how he had a couple of decent plays after the fall.... the effects of the concussion did not all set in at once...makes sense

 

[goru7]

I think the key to making rotations work this year was when Pike moved McConnell a 3 to the bench, Harper from 4 to 3 and moving Yeboah to the starting line up at 4 after the Mich. St. game. They have started strong with this starting lineup against Wisc. 9-0 and SHU 14-0 and 26-5. I think we will become one the better defensive team in the country with just that simple move.

Plus when you bring in Jacob and Caleb and Paul , 2 of the three are really good defenders so the drop off in defense is not great.

 

[RUChoppin]

interesting....nix everything I said then

Just rewatched the first half, focusing on Powell:
17:36 - Hit the left/back of his head hard on the floor on a charge from Mathis
17:02 - Hit in the face by teammate on a screen, came away holding his head/face.
15:12 - Fouled by Johnson on a layup attempt, sending him to the floor. Missed both FTs, uncharacteristic from 80%+ shooter
12:52 - Came off the floor, went down to end of bench and motioned to someone in a sweater over a collared shirt to talk to him. Not sure if that was a trainer or not, but assuming so.
11:58 - Returned between RU FTs. If he was evaluated while off the floor, there should have been no reason to send him back out there.
10:47 - Bumped a bit on a rebound, minor
10:33 - Contact chest-to-chest on made layup
9:10 - Drew contact into his defender trying to draw a foul around arc, but passed out to another player instead of shooting
6:57 - Banged bodies a bit with McConnell on a screen
6:49 - Coming out of commercial during timeout, hands on his face with fingers on both temples awaiting the inbound
3:55 - Coming out of commercial not on floor, didn't see him on bench
2:43 - See him way at the end of bench with the same sweater guy he motioned to earlier. Did not return.

No one pulled him off the floor after the initial impact to do a health check, and he didn't seem to have any 1-on-1 with a trainer until the 12:52 mark (after he'd been hit a couple more times). If he had a concussion on that first hit, with two more hits, the trainer should have been able to identify it and put him in the protocol - but that didn't happen.

He spent most of the first half after the impact camped outside the arc on the left side, and walking/standing around on defense. Very little intensity, almost lackadaisical. Someone should have figured out he wasn't fully there before he made the "why are we practicing at Rutgers?" comment to Willard (assuming that was the event that finally got him into the protocol, but might not have been).

 

[richthedentist]

I believe we would have beaten SHU with Powell playing, on that given day.....but if he was healthy and played the entire game, it would have been a better
measure of our defense.... they most certainly would have scored more

I beg to differ he basically played the entire first half and in fact they scored more when he went out towards the end of the first half and they actually scored more when in the second half

 

[RUHouston]

I beg to differ he basically played the entire first half and in fact they scored more when he went out towards the end of the first half and they actually scored more when in the second half

Up to the point where he scored his last points they showed a graphic, IIRC, that the rest of the team wash 1-13 from the field....

 

[PaKnight]

Looking at the ADJUSTED defensive efficiency scores.....

we are 105.33 away from the RAC
we are 83.01 at the RAC

A 105.33 score would be 302nd
A 83.01 score would be ELITE (in all CAPS) #2 behind 79.5 Virginia

That is probably more of a function of who we have played at home and away.

 

[wheezer]

I beg to differ he basically played the entire first half and in fact they scored more when he went out towards the end of the first half and they actually scored more when in the second half

It would make sense that he was disoriented and the team did better without him

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

That is probably more of a function of who we have played at home and away.

They are supposedly/allegedly ADJUSTED for opponent.

EXAMPLE
Gave up 58 points in 66 possessions vs NJIT
raw PPP is 58/66 .878
NJIT is a .956 offensive efficiency or 242nd rated

As a result.....our adjusted defensive efficiency was raised (lowered) to .971

So a .878 went to a .971 for the NJIT game.

On the flip side......
SHU scored 48 in 70 possessions = .6857 points per possession
Adjusted defensive efficiency brought it down to .628

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Easy to be a Monday morning QB, BUT Seton Hall trainer may have some questions to answer here. One of my party said to me that it looked like Powell was poutty (sp?) on the bench. If he noticed this it should have been obvious that something wasnt right with him.

 

[CHR2022]

Not to go all Kyk here but I thought he was fine after he ran the floor and aggressively swatted Jacob Young on the fast break. Then made a few a layups with contact. Definitely could be a delayed reaction, but idk.

 

[RUHouston]

BUMP!

I guess I was a few weeks early after all! [roll]