I've lost all faith in Pike

[RUChoppin]

Honest questions. Who took over a worst situation? Who recruited the best player to date? People are giving Pike a pass on the last game with EO out but no one cared EJ lost the entire front court for the season. I want to be clear here. I don’t think EJ was a good coach, I just don’t get all the trust Pike fans.

The dude actually said, out loud, that rebounding wasn't in his coaching package. He also had zero track record of success to base any sort of benefit of the doubt.

As to EJ losing his "entire front court for the season", that's a bit revisionist. We lost Doorson and Freeman for the year... Diallo for half the year, and Laurent for five games. Lewis and Foreman played the whole year, though Lewis was also slowed by injury.

Coming into his last year, we had an anticipated frontcourt of: Lewis (Senior), Foreman (true soph with 15min/4pts/3rbs the prior year), and Doorson (true Soph who averaged 10 min/2 pts/2 rbs the prior year).... and were bringing in Freeman (Juco), Diallo (RS Freshman), and Laurent (true freshman) with expectations to contribute immediate starter-level minutes and reverse course from the 10-win fiasco in the prior season.

There were also just 6 guys taller than 6-4 on the team, with an open scholarship and Justin Goode further shortening the bench. The roster was short and paper thin even without injuries - but the injuries we had coupled with lack of overall talent and poor coaching lead to a historic collapse. Even with Freeman/Doorson/Diallo healthy, it's likely we still would have been looking at 10 wins again (replaced Sr. Mack/Jack/Kone and Jr. Etou with Juco Freeman and Fr. Sanders/Diallo/Laurent)

Just went back to read an On the Banks article from Nov 2015 that talked about Doorson's injury in practice, saying he wasn't expected to contribute much as a sophomore, but would likely be the backup to RS Freshman Diallo who could have a "breakout season" in the Big Ten. Diallo was a recruiting miss, though, and didn't find success at Rutgers or at Manhattan post-transfer - he actually played more total minutes in his injury-shortened 2015-16 season than any other season in his career.

 

[jtung230]

The dude actually said, out loud, that rebounding wasn't in his coaching package. He also had zero track record of success to base any sort of benefit of the doubt.

As to EJ losing his "entire front court for the season", that's a bit revisionist. We lost Doorson and Freeman for the year... Diallo for half the year, and Laurent for five games. Lewis and Foreman played the whole year, though Lewis was also slowed by injury.

Coming into his last year, we had an anticipated frontcourt of: Lewis (Senior), Foreman (true soph with 15min/4pts/3rbs the prior year), and Doorson (true Soph who averaged 10 min/2 pts/2 rbs the prior year).... and were bringing in Freeman (Juco), Diallo (RS Freshman), and Laurent (true freshman) with expectations to contribute immediate starter-level minutes and reverse course from the 10-win fiasco in the prior season.

There were also just 6 guys taller than 6-4 on the team, with an open scholarship and Justin Goode further shortening the bench. The roster was short and paper thin even without injuries - but the injuries we had coupled with lack of overall talent and poor coaching lead to a historic collapse. Even with Freeman/Doorson/Diallo healthy, it's likely we still would have been looking at 10 wins again (replaced Sr. Mack/Jack/Kone and Jr. Etou with Juco Freeman and Fr. Sanders/Diallo/Laurent)

Just went back to read an On the Banks article from Nov 2015 that talked about Doorson's injury in practice, saying he wasn't expected to contribute much as a sophomore, but would likely be the backup to RS Freshman Diallo who could have a "breakout season" in the Big Ten. Diallo was a recruiting miss, though, and didn't find success at Rutgers or at Manhattan post-transfer - he actually played more total minutes in his injury-shortened 2015-16 season than any other season in his career.

You didn’t answer my questions. Funny how all EJ’s players were the best rebounding guys Pike had. Now Pike’s guys are in and where are we in rebounding?

 

[JQRU91]

Playing issa is KILLING this team

Captain Kirk agrees.

 

[JQRU91]

Sorry, but Ash is on a planet all his own. Pikiell is a real person and Ash is more like a clueless stepford wife....kinda creepy.

A Stepford wife would smile at least.

 

[dpwhite]

Honest questions. Who took over a worst situation? Who recruited the best player to date? People are giving Pike a pass on the last game with EO out but no one cared EJ lost the entire front court for the season. I want to be clear here. I don’t think EJ was a good coach, I just don’t get all the trust Pike fans.

Pikiell took over a worse situation. Yes, Eddie stepped in to the Mike Rice scandal with a goal to make the situation stable, but in my opinion, he didn't. He only compounded it. He took a relatively talented team (JJ, Myles, Kadeem, Jerome) and helped them lose by 61. By the time he was done, not only was this a team that had been mired in scandal, but also was the embarrassment of college hoops. It was the worst power conference team in the nation and it wasn't even close.

Was Corey the better recruit? Maybe. But Montez is looking the part and Pikiell is recruiting a better team in my opinion.

Also, Pikiell lost his best player EO and hasn't lost by 50 or 45 or 61 to anyone. In fact, last night was competitive to the point people are upset we didn't win instead of being upset we were embarrassed.

It's not even close. Pikiell has a squad he can develop to help move up. EJ had a team that didn't look like it belonged on the floor when it was healthy never mind when it was beat up.

 

[RUonBrain]

We didn’t give EJ 5 years. I would give him next year given the recruits he has coming in.

LOL

It was obvious after 1 year that Jordan couldn’t get it done if he was given 20 years.

 

[RUonBrain]

This is year 3. We all expected better this year. 1-6 in the B1G is all on Pike. Watched this game then the Iowa wrestling debacle. Why can't Rutgers win ANYTHING?

What the heck are you talking about?

Most (normal) people were expecting a step back recordwise this year.

 

[RUChoppin]

You didn’t answer my questions. Funny how all EJ’s players were the best rebounding guys Pike had. Now Pike’s guys are in and where are we in rebounding?

Wait, they were what now?

Top rebounding players by year:
2017-18: Freeman, Omoruyi, Thiam
2016-17: Freeman, Gettys, Williams

Top rebounding per 40 min by year (players who played at least 200 min):
2016-17: Freeman, Gettys, Sa
2017-18: Freeman, Sa, Doucoure

The only guy among any of those who was a "EJ player" for more than 8 games was Williams... and his rebounding almost doubled once Pike took over. Even Freeman's rebounding went way up after Pike took over, compared to a small sample size of 8 games against weaker OOC competition.

Looking at total rebounding rankings by year:
EJ:
2012-13: 144th
2013-14: 166th
2014-15: 232nd
Pike:
2016-17: 47th
2017-18: 45th
2018-19: 88th (through 17 games)

Rebounding? That's where you're making your case? Seriously?

 

[RUonBrain]

You didn’t answer my questions. Funny how all EJ’s players were the best rebounding guys Pike had. Now Pike’s guys are in and where are we in rebounding?

Who the heck are you?
Eddie’s cousin?

 

[RUChoppin]

You didn’t answer my questions. Funny how all EJ’s players were the best rebounding guys Pike had. Now Pike’s guys are in and where are we in rebounding?

As for your first question - who inherited a worse situation. Pikiell did.

EJ inherited 5 of the top 7 scorers from the prior year (Mack, Judge, Seagears, Jack, Johnson) and lost 2 (Carter, Miller) off a 15-16 squad. He had to deal with Rice's scandal fallout, but the pieces were there to win more than the 12 games that he did.

Pike inherited 3 of the top 7 scorers from the prior year (Sanders, Williams, Laurent) and lost 4 (Daniels, Foreman, Grier, Lewis). He also regained Freeman off an injury redshirt. He also had to come off of the worst three year stretch of wins (29) since Craig Littlepage (23) in the 80s.

As to who recruited the best player to date - the jury's still out on that, but Sanders is in the lead over Omoruyi. Unfortunately, basketball is a team game, and isn't played 1x1, so it's not about any single player but about the quality of the overall roster that can be signed and then retained.

Looking at the overall players that each coach brought in:
EJ's HS recruits: Sanders, Etou, Williams, Doorson, Foreman, Diallo, Goode, (and Thiam committed)
Pike's HS recruits: Omoruyi, Baker, Mathis, Johnson, Harper, McConnell, (Thiam), Doucoure, Bullock (and Mulcahy committed)

EJ's Jucos/transfers: Freeman, Johnson, Daniels, Grier, Okoro, Brown, Campbell
Pike's Jucos/transfers: Gettys, Carter, Sa, Young, Kiss, Mensah

 

[Caliknight]

Recruit shooters!

 

[Debtbubble]

Sorry, but Ash is on a planet all his own. Pikiell is a real person and Ash is more like a clueless stepford wife....kinda creepy.

[laughing]

 

[Debtbubble]

He should get 5 years. But if year 5 resembles anything like years 1-3 he should be canned

It will be exactly the same. Every year until he’s gone. Then the odds are, it will get worse.

RU had one miracle season in 2006. And went to the Texas bowl. You can’t even make this stuff up.

You might see another one if you live 50 more years. Another Texas bowl.

 

[Goku]

I have not lost faith in pike at all. He is coaching these kids overall pretty well. His rebuild situation is the toughest one any Rutgers basketball coach has ever had and one of the toughest in the nation. He took the challenge and has done as well as he could so far considering the circumstances. He has made mistakes and fallen short in some areas (not getting the Martin bros, or Alvarado or Hyatt or Massoud) but he’s not been outworked by anyone. He needs time to turn the program image around and win a few more recruiting battles. What if this team had 4 straight recruiting classes like the freshman one that is impressing us right now? Well we should have another one coming in next year. The program is gonna bloom in the next few years. I don’t understand why a home loss to northwestern without our best player and two other players hobbling is causing people to give up.

 

[goru7]

The jury is still out as to whether Pike is a good coach. He seems like an amiable fellow, a good guy.

But what has he shown in three years to justify a belief that he knows how to coach? Today it was obvious that the NW coach outcoached Mr. Pike.

Where is the evidence of good coaching?

Come on now. He took Michigan State to the wire twice last year and Purdue to the wire twice last year. If you forgot ,they were both top 10 teams. With our roster compared to theirs , they should have been blowouts. Coach had the right game plans, got the guys to dig in defensively and on the boards and to play physically something a Rutgers team has not done in 12 years. So stop with the Pike cannot coach crap. You sound stupid.
The problem he has this year, is that he expected Issa and Kiss to give us 15-25 points a game and we are getting 0-6 points combined if we are lucky from both of them and the freshman have had to play more than most coaches would want. He also misjudged Geo, thinking he could be Corey both offensively and defensively , and Geo has had the proverbial sophomore slump. He is trying to adjust with his lineups and he is really struggling with it. Most of us are upset, frustrated especially with the loss the other night to a mediocre at best Northwestern team. To think he cannot coach is just so ridiculous.

 

[Vince2310]

You must be out of your mind with this thread. Pike has made us relevant again with recruits, has got us playing D, and had done a great job since he had been here. He also inherited a major project. This is a transition year. We lost our best player and leader last year. This is a very young team. We have a MCD all American coming to be a our PG next year. We have a real coach here and a very young team. Before there is a revolt, let’s give him the proper time to mold his team.

 

[Goku]

Here is another issue I have and that is people on here blaming the coach because of the loss of swagger at the start of the year. Well maybe the kids listened to the praise of their coach and had that swagger to start the year. And they played some easy first games and were shooting well and began to believe the hype. And then something happened. They began to play better teams and hit a wall. And they weren’t as good of shooters as the press clippings and the first games indicated. And as players and as a team they have yet to figure out how to change their games. Some have, like Mathis. As a team they all seemed in a panic against Fordham. Leaders like geo and EO have had to learn to be leaders during this time too. It’s on the players to adjust their games and adapt from stuff that isn’t working for them anymore. We can see who are adapting their games and who just can’t do it, after a few years now.

 

[jtung230]

Wait, they were what now?

Top rebounding players by year:
2017-18: Freeman, Omoruyi, Thiam
2016-17: Freeman, Gettys, Williams

Top rebounding per 40 min by year (players who played at least 200 min):
2016-17: Freeman, Gettys, Sa
2017-18: Freeman, Sa, Doucoure

The only guy among any of those who was a "EJ player" for more than 8 games was Williams... and his rebounding almost doubled once Pike took over. Even Freeman's rebounding went way up after Pike took over, compared to a small sample size of 8 games against weaker OOC competition.

Looking at total rebounding rankings by year:
EJ:
2012-13: 144th
2013-14: 166th
2014-15: 232nd
Pike:
2016-17: 47th
2017-18: 45th
2018-19: 88th (through 17 games)

Rebounding? That's where you're making your case? Seriously?

Thanks for confirming. Freeman and Williams were the top rebounders. Pike with all his guys have dropped significantly in rebounding. I know you like to believe that Pike is an awesome coach that taught them how to rebounds in a few months which double their totals. However, I think their numbers doubled because Williams didn’t have to play PF and Freeman at center due to all the injuries.

As I said before, I’m not defending EJ here. I’m just pointing out to the Pike fan club that things are not going well. This is just like the Ash fan club after he was hired. I can easily use F Hill as a reference but that requires more work.

 

[satnom]

As for your first question - who inherited a worse situation. Pikiell did.

EJ inherited 5 of the top 7 scorers from the prior year (Mack, Judge, Seagears, Jack, Johnson) and lost 2 (Carter, Miller) off a 15-16 squad. He had to deal with Rice's scandal fallout, but the pieces were there to win more than the 12 games that he did.

Pike inherited 3 of the top 7 scorers from the prior year (Sanders, Williams, Laurent) and lost 4 (Daniels, Foreman, Grier, Lewis). He also regained Freeman off an injury redshirt. He also had to come off of the worst three year stretch of wins (29) since Craig Littlepage (23) in the 80s.

As to who recruited the best player to date - the jury's still out on that, but Sanders is in the lead over Omoruyi. Unfortunately, basketball is a team game, and isn't played 1x1, so it's not about any single player but about the quality of the overall roster that can be signed and then retained.

Looking at the overall players that each coach brought in:
EJ's HS recruits: Sanders, Etou, Williams, Doorson, Foreman, Diallo, Goode, (and Thiam committed)
Pike's HS recruits: Omoruyi, Baker, Mathis, Johnson, Harper, McConnell, (Thiam), Doucoure, Bullock (and Mulcahy committed)

EJ's Jucos/transfers: Freeman, Johnson, Daniels, Grier, Okoro, Brown, Campbell
Pike's Jucos/transfers: Gettys, Carter, Sa, Young, Kiss, Mensah

One of Jordan’s recruits was one of the worst Div 1 players I have ever seen and I’ve been understanding the game for over 35 yrs.

GO RU

 

[bac2therac]

I would rate is his job here so far a solid B

Game Planning: B+
Game Day Coaching/Adjustments: B+
Vision/Energy: B
Recruiting/Management: C

 

[Duff366]

Pikiell took over a worse situation. Yes, Eddie stepped in to the Mike Rice scandal with a goal to make the situation stable, but in my opinion, he didn't. He only compounded it. He took a relatively talented team (JJ, Myles, Kadeem, Jerome) and helped them lose by 61. By the time he was done, not only was this a team that had been mired in scandal, but also was the embarrassment of college hoops. It was the worst power conference team in the nation and it wasn't even close.

Was Corey the better recruit? Maybe. But Montez is looking the part and Pikiell is recruiting a better team in my opinion.

Also, Pikiell lost his best player EO and hasn't lost by 50 or 45 or 61 to anyone. In fact, last night was competitive to the point people are upset we didn't win instead of being upset we were embarrassed.

It's not even close. Pikiell has a squad he can develop to help move up. EJ had a team that didn't look like it belonged on the floor when it was healthy never mind when it was beat up.

Eddie wasn't a good coach but that "relatively talented team" was picked dead last in the AAC that year. They finished 7th and won a first round game. That being said they lost a whole bunch of out of conference games they should have won.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Pikiell inherited the stench of a program that had a no defense mentality and a all about me personality. The 1st year he had to beg a

I would rate is his job here so far a solid B

Game Planning: B+
Game Day Coaching/Adjustments: B+
Vision/Energy: B
Recruiting/Management: C

very fair

 

[dpwhite]

Eddie wasn't a good coach but that "relatively talented team" was picked dead last in the AAC that year. They finished 7th and won a first round game. That being said they lost a whole bunch of out of conference games they should have won.

Mack, Seagears, JJ Moore, Kadeem Jack make up a good nucleus. I think it was a more talented team than Pikiell had in year 1.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Mack, Seagears, JJ Moore, Kadeem Jack make up a good nucleus. I think it was a more talented team than Pikiell had in year 1.

Talent yes. Toxic yes

 

[Duff366]

Corey Sanders, Deshawn Freeman, Mike Williams, Nigel Johnson, CJ Gettys, Jonathan Laurent is a better nucleus to me than Myles Mack, JJ Moore, Jerome Seagears and Kadeem Jack

 

[dpwhite]

Corey Sanders, Deshawn Freeman, Mike Williams, Nigel Johnson, CJ Gettys, Jonathan Laurent is a better nucleus to me than Myles Mack, JJ Moore, Jerome Seagears and Kareem Jack

I disagree, but okay.

 

[RUChoppin]

Thanks for confirming. Freeman and Williams were the top rebounders. Pike with all his guys have dropped significantly in rebounding. I know you like to believe that Pike is an awesome coach that taught them how to rebounds in a few months which double their totals. However, I think their numbers doubled because Williams didn’t have to play PF and Freeman at center due to all the injuries.

As I said before, I’m not defending EJ here. I’m just pointing out to the Pike fan club that things are not going well. This is just like the Ash fan club after he was hired. I can easily use F Hill as a reference but that requires more work.

Um... what?

Freeman was a top rebounder for 2 years... but he was signed by EJ, not coached by him. In his 8 games under EJ, he managed 7.2 rb/40 min at SF, then under Pike he averaged 11.6/11.5 after being moved to PF. He wasn't playing center in those 8 games, which is just fantasy. Lewis and Diallo were both healthy during the games Freeman was active, with Lewis averaging 15min and Diallo averaging 13min, and Foreman shifted to the 5 when we went small. The only injury at center at the point Freeman went down was Doorson, who was coming off a low-production freshman year. Freeman's production went up under Pike because a) rebounding became a focus in practice and a taught skill, and b) he was moved to PF from SF.

EJ was TERRIBLE at coaching rebounding. He was so bad that after we were brutally outrebounded 53-32 vs SHU that year, he was asked if rebounding would be a focus of practice that week.... and he responded by saying teaching rebounding was "not in my package as a coach". AT BEST, you can say he recruited a couple of guys who would become good rebounders once a decent coach got his hands on them - and even then, not many.

You must have some family connection or something to EJ, or Pike must have stole your girlfriend in high school.

 

[RUChoppin]

Corey Sanders, Deshawn Freeman, Mike Williams, Nigel Johnson, CJ Gettys, Jonathan Laurent is a better nucleus to me than Myles Mack, JJ Moore, Jerome Seagears and Kadeem Jack

Mack, Jack, Seagears, Judge, and Moore all played professionally after college. 3 overseas, and 2 in the G-League.

 

[dpwhite]

Mack, Jack, Seagears, Judge, and Moore all played professionally after college. 3 overseas, and 2 in the G-League.

Oh man I even forgot about Judge.

 

[whofrewdatmataRU13]

Oh man I even forgot about Judge.

Freak athlete coming out of highschool

 

[bac2therac]

we dont know how much the offseason stuff with Rice effected those players but I would say they underperformed given the schedule

 

[Goku]

Yeah, no faith in this guy

 

[scarletNJ49]

Young team coming together

 

[KnightTerrors]

This thread is going to age so well!

 

[RUz91]

lol

 

[S_Janowski]

We’re less than 3 years removed from being one of the worst program in all on D1 basketball (that’s hundreds of teams).

People need to relax and have some patience. Pikiell will bring us to the tourney, but it may take another 2 years. It will be worth the wait.

 

[shields]

People overreact much.

 

[RutgHoops]

Not going to waste time reading the thread, but I’m sure there are some hot takes in it.

 

[Night Man]

We’re less than 3 years removed from being one of the worst program in all on D1 basketball (that’s hundreds of teams).

People need to relax and have some patience. Pikiell will bring us to the tourney, but it may take another 2 years. It will be worth the wait.

It could take 5 years. The two keys are whether the team plays well fairly consistently (jury's out so far) and whether he replaces his early recruits with better players. If you can't reload with better talent, you're never going to get there.

 

[S_Janowski]

It could take 5 years. The two keys are whether the team plays well fairly consistently (jury's out so far) and whether he replaces his early recruits with better players. If you can't reload with better talent, you're never going to get there.

Recruiting definitely has to improve, there’s no question.

But we’re competing with a ton of freshman. I feel good about Pikiell’s coaching abilities.