JWill

[PSAL_Hoops]

Pike does. He kept playing Gavin despite his poor performance. Anyone coming in has to know Gavin is going to get a lot of rope and he is going to get every chance to succeed

I don’t see it that way for next year. He was given a lot of rope this year as Pike knew we weren’t going anywhere and the only real alternatives were seniors like Hyatt, Austin Williams and Oskar due to Paul and Cam’s late departures. Mag hurt / unavailable most of the season. Noah didn’t pan out as hoped.

Next season - Gavin isn’t going to take time away from anyone with proven success unless he performs. And he’s not going to take minutes from Ace or Dylan either for the same reason he was given rope this year. They are ranked even higher than he was.

 

[Eagleton96]

Pike does. He kept playing Gavin despite his poor performance. Anyone coming in has to know Gavin is going to get a lot of rope and he is going to get every chance to succeed

I don't think it's caring about stars. It's caring about potential. Pike thinks Griffiths has a lot of potential. Based on what he did in HS, and what he does in practice. That could be reflected in stars or not. Jaden Jones was a 4 star. He had a short rope and he's gone.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I don't think it's caring about stars. It's caring about potential. Pike thinks Griffiths has a lot of potential. Based on what he did in HS, and what he does in practice. That could be reflected in stars or not. Jaden Jones was a 4 star. He had a short rope and he's gone.

Yes....and Gavin's potential could scare a player away from coming here.

If Gavin put it together....
Jwill 32
Dylan 32
Gavin 32
Ace 32

JaMike 16

In this scenario there are no minutes...now I don't think this is happening.

Heaven forbid Cliff came back and Somerville, Dortch and grant are all candidates to take Ace back up minutes.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We may be in need of a guy who is long, will play D, take and make open shots but is OK with the role of playing 12-24 minutes. Someone that makes a little money, gets a chance to play major conference basketball and just want to be part of a winning team.

 

[High Quality H2O]

We may be in need of a guy who is long, will play D, take and make open shots but is OK with the role of playing 12-24 minutes. Someone that makes a little money, gets a chance to play major conference basketball and just want to be part of a winning team.

Yes but we need more than 1 of those types. Chances are something bad happens. We need the fat on the roster to allow for that.

If we take 2 players from the portal who we think can be solid and we are expecting Gavin and JMike to make major steps. The chances of all of those things going well (and I don't even want to say the "I" word) are moderate at best.

And if they do then good for us we have a bunch of great players and Pike can spend his time figuring out who to upset.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Yes but we need more than 1 of those types. Chances are something bad happens. We need the fat on the roster to allow for that.

If we take 2 players from the portal who we think can be solid and we are expecting Gavin and JMike to make major steps. The chances of all of those things going well (and I don't even want to say the "I" word) are moderate at best.

And if they do then good for us we have a bunch of great players and Pike can spend his time figuring out who to upset.

We may need extra depth in case.......but what type of player/talent wants to come to a situation as a fall back option.

Austin Williams type of talent will come and maybe a step higher, but that is about it.

The Derek Simpson move had to happen or we had little chance of decent portal talent at the guard position.

 

[High Quality H2O]

We may need extra depth in case.......but what type of player/talent wants to come to a situation as a fall back option.

Austin Williams type of talent will come and maybe a step higher, but that is about it.

The Derek Simpson move had to happen or we had little chance of decent portal talent at the guard position.

I think that’s the spin if we can pull it off. There is enough newness to the roster next year it is not completely set in stone.

Can we sell a couple kids that they are going to have to compete for their spot and it is likely they win it?

Which is the truth.

It is more likely that the weird thing happens somewhere else on the roster vs the specific guy you are recruiting.

Basically convincing them that we need to have quality depth more than enough guys because someone else is going to have a bad day not them.

 

[seansherm]

Gavin had plenty of rope this year and did nothing. Basketball wise it makes sense for him to get in the portal. He’s a shooter, why stay here and they literally don’t run any plays for open shots? They didn’t make it easy for him, every shot was literally over someone…they Just run pick and roll and stand there and hope for the best (maybe a kick out if your man helps)…that’s not an ideal situation for a shooter

If Gavin needs no one between himself and the rim to get a shot off, he probably should transfer, down to my men's league on Monday nights.
You know players are allowed to move off the ball, yes? Gavin was awful at it 2/3rds of the year. As he got a little more comfortable, he moved a little more. That still didn't result in him shooting much better. This offense does allow you to get your own shot too. He couldn't do that. There is a reason Simpson shot so much, he was the only one that could dribble himself open. As Gavin matures he'll get better.

 

[RUGiddy777]

No coach cares about stars. He’s playing Gavin because he has a future with the team and there was no one else to play.

And Gavin was playing much better down the stretch.

 

[Eagleton96]

If Gavin needs no one between himself and the rim to get a shot off, he probably should transfer, down to my men's league on Monday nights.
You know players are allowed to move off the ball, yes? Gavin was awful at it 2/3rds of the year. As he got a little more comfortable, he moved a little more. That still didn't result in him shooting much better. This offense does allow you to get your own shot too. He couldn't do that. There is a reason Simpson shot so much, he was the only one that could dribble himself open. As Gavin matures he'll get better.

The last stretch of the season he moved a lot, was able to get off hard shots, was penetrating, and was hitting at a respectable clip from 3. But, he's not supposed to be the PG so comparing him to Simpson doesn't make sense.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Yes....and Gavin's potential could scare a player away from coming here.

If Gavin put it together....
Jwill 32
Dylan 32
Gavin 32
Ace 32

JaMike 16

In this scenario there are no minutes...now I don't think this is happening.

Heaven forbid Cliff came back and Somerville, Dortch and grant are all candidates to take Ace back up minutes.

If we are gonna to push the tempo …like I think pike wants to, and we are gojng to play pike defense …I don’t see the frosh playing 32 min…27 max

Here is my rotation

Starters
Jwill 26
Dylan 28
Portal wing 26
Airous 28
Portal center 24

Primary bench
Gavin 22
Latham 16
Jmike 14
Dortch and grant 16 combined

Depth
Ogoble or third portal center
Oskar or portal forward
Portal guard

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

And Gavin was playing much better down the stretch.

not sure if we take defense in account

 

[seansherm]

The last stretch of the season he moved a lot, was able to get off hard shots, was penetrating, and was hitting at a respectable clip from 3. But, he's not supposed to be the PG so comparing him to Simpson doesn't make sense.

He shot the same 28% overall that Simpson did the last 12 games. Agree, he moved much better.
If you don't think a wing, especially one that led the team in shots per 40 min, should be able to create their own shot, I can't help you.

 

[winfield102]

We won't need JWill taking 3's off the dribble. Set 3's only should help. I can see him cracking 33% next year if he practices properly. Zero confidence the staff knows how to guide players to success offensively.

He was 5 for 24 this year. Each make increases his make percentage by just over 4%. Anyone remember the line drives that RHJ used to shot? My recollection is that Gavin had more ugly misses than JWill.

I don't see Davis cracking 30%. That shot isn't pretty and he is a bad shooter from everywhere.

 

[seansherm]

We won't need JWill taking 3's off the dribble. Set 3's only should help. I can see him cracking 33% next year if he practices properly. Zero confidence the staff knows how to guide players to success offensively.

He was 5 for 24 this year. Each make increases his make percentage by just over 4%. Anyone remember the line drives that RHJ used to shot? My recollection is that Gavin had more ugly misses than JWill.

I don't see Davis cracking 30%. That shot isn't pretty and he is a bad shooter from everywhere.

JWill has actually gotten worse from 3 each year as his career has gone on.
He's also never played more than 22 games, so worried we see him fade down the stretch next year.

 

[Eagleton96]

He shot the same 28% overall that Simpson did the last 12 games. Agree, he moved much better.
If you don't think a wing, especially one that led the team in shots per 40 min, should be able to create their own shot, I can't help you.

I don't know what you are talking about regarding me saying a wing shouldn't be able to create their own shot. Maybe that was a conversation you were having in your head?

GG may have shot 28% overall, but I think he was around 37% from 3, shooting at reasonable volume.

 

[winfield102]

Shack,

You think we are playing the normal Pike defense (high intensity from all 5)?

I just don't see it with 2 freshman starting. Any other freshman getting minutes?

Very curious to see how Pike handles next season. I think it will blow up if he doesn't adjust.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yes....and Gavin's potential could scare a player away from coming here.

If Gavin put it together....
Jwill 32
Dylan 32
Gavin 32
Ace 32

JaMike 16

In this scenario there are no minutes...now I don't think this is happening.

Heaven forbid Cliff came back and Somerville, Dortch and grant are all candidates to take Ace back up minutes.

You can’t be serious. Any recruit who would shy away from RU because they don’t think they can beat out Gavin for minutes after this year…. I mean, hopefully GG develops but by all counts he has a very long way to go. Any proven power conference starter could come to RU and feel confident about locking down the starter 3 slot. If Cliff leaves we’ll also have a spot at center.

After that I agree with you - it’ll be about recruiting solid utility players. We’re not recruiting multiple proven guards. We have room for only one.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I agree with you….but Gavin will get every chance.

 

[seansherm]

I don't know what you are talking about regarding me saying a wing shouldn't be able to create their own shot. Maybe that was a conversation you were having in your head?

GG may have shot 28% overall, but I think he was around 37% from 3, shooting at reasonable volume.

Well, you didn't want him compared to a point guard getting their own shot, so I said as a wing he still needs to be able to create for himself.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I agree with you….but Gavin will get every chance.

No - actually he won’t. I guarantee you the focus is on bringing in a kid who is good enough to be a virtual lock to start. We are not in the market for someone to back Gavin up. That would be a false assessment.

 

[seansherm]

No - actually he won’t. I guarantee you the focus is on bringing in a kid who is good enough to be a virtual lock to start. We are not in the market for someone to back Gavin up. That would be a false assessment.

Doubt you are right here. The one wing we've been in contact with averaged like 9 a game in his 3rd year at a lower level. We aren't looking at that kid as a starter.

 

[needmorecowbell]

Doubt you are right here. The one wing we've been in contact with averaged like 9 a game in his 3rd year at a lower level. We aren't looking at that kid as a starter.

They are targeting a guard from what I can see. That would allow them to start 3 guards potentially (Dylan, J Will and transfer) and Gavin may come off the bench. Either way, they need to add more shooters.

 

[Scangg]

Yes, it would make plenty of sense to upgrade JWill with a guy who can do what he does + shoot. JWill will just allow the lanes that Dylan likes to be clogged with his defender.

Do you realize how good and expensive a player like that would be? They would also be an alpha star of a team

 

[Scangg]

Yes....and Gavin's potential could scare a player away from coming here.

If Gavin put it together....
Jwill 32
Dylan 32
Gavin 32
Ace 32

JaMike 16

In this scenario there are no minutes...now I don't think this is happening.

Heaven forbid Cliff came back and Somerville, Dortch and grant are all candidates to take Ace back up minutes.

I'll take the unders on all of those. High tempo less minutes

 

[seansherm]

Do you realize how good and expensive a player like that would be? They would also be an alpha star of a team

Yes, we need one if people want next year to be the year it could be. If Ace and Dylan put up, say Isaiah Collier (a good FR year on huge usage) and Justin Edwards or D J Wagner (mediocre) #'s next year, where is the rest of the scoring coming from? That's 26 points a game, the team needs another 50 points. You either need five (4 + Gavin) capable of double figures every night or one you can count on for 20. Kentucky brought back a 20 point guy along w all their kids, plus a transfer double digit guy. Duke brought back Philipkowski in addition to senior guard and big man to go with their four top 30 kids.
Keep Cliff or Mag, which doesn't seem likely, ok, but this team needs help even w the kids.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Shack,

You think we are playing the normal Pike defense (high intensity from all 5)?

I just don't see it with 2 freshman starting. Any other freshman getting minutes?

Very curious to see how Pike handles next season. I think it will blow up if he doesn't adjust.

Yes …the rotation has carve outs with for all 5 freshman

And I do expect pike to not deemphasize defense just because we are going to try to play faster and score more . Pike alluded to the fact (and I agree with ) in that playing faster and shooting quicker means you will be playing defense for longer amounts of time if your playing defense right …

Means we need 9 guys , as my rotation suggests …

Defending , causing a turnover or miss, and getting the rebound is the starting point of running and playing faster .

Can’t do one without the other

The elephant in the room to playing faster is can we get more rebounding from the four spot (Ace) while maintaing similar rebounding ability at the 5 without cliff …than we did last year wirh cliff and a hodge podge at the four???

This is an imperative if we want guards to cheat a little to get more run out opportunities

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Doubt you are right here. The one wing we've been in contact with averaged like 9 a game in his 3rd year at a lower level. We aren't looking at that kid as a starter.

You have no idea how many portal kids we’re shopping for. Nobody does. I predict we will bring in at least one Cam type. Noah was that type too by the way. Fully expected to start - just didn’t pan out. I don’t think we’ll go with someone coming off major injury this time. That doesn’t mean Gavin won’t play his way into starter minutes but that’s not going to be the expectation going into the season. By all counts, he did not have a good frosh year. Will have to prove himself next season.

 

[Scarlet83]

I don't think it's caring about stars. It's caring about potential. Pike thinks Griffiths has a lot of potential. Based on what he did in HS, and what he does in practice. That could be reflected in stars or not. Jaden Jones was a 4 star. He had a short rope and he's gone.

Exactly!

 

[seels2662]

With Ace and Dylan the first 2 options that defenses will key on, I expect J Will to do quite well in our offense

Agreed, plus the better option for our shooter will be a stretch four. We want people away from the paint.

 

[brad1218]

Pike does. He kept playing Gavin despite his poor performance. Anyone coming in has to know Gavin is going to get a lot of rope and he is going to get every chance to succeed

He doesn't like stars he likes potential. If you don't see that Gavin shows unbelievable potential then I am not sure what to say. He has everything you want in an offensive player. Just has to be unlocked.

 

[Eagleton96]

He doesn't like stars he likes potential. If you don't see that Gavin shows unbelievable potential then I am not sure what to say. He has everything you want in an offensive player. Just has to be unlocked.

I'm a Gavin fan. But he's still "locked" as you say. Until he actually does it consistently in games, it's still an egg, not a chicken. So in terms of roster management (used to be recruiting), that means you bring in the best player you can to compete at the position.

 

[NickRU714]

Agreed, plus the better option for our shooter will be a stretch four. We want people away from the paint.

Agreed.
But JWill without the ball isn't pulling his man away from the paint.

If I was an opposing coach I would 100% cheat off JWill. Let him take all the ball reversal shots.
At 25%, every 3pt shot he takes is a win if it means Ace/Dylan don't have the ball.

If someone like Cam (not him actually but similar profile) was standing on the other side of the court from Dylan/Ace - it's a real defensive conundrum.

 

[rubigtimenow]

Personally I think it’s too early to focus on starters vs bench and exact minutes.
We certainly know 2 of our starters (lol) and probably a 3rd.
I like to look at it in terms of who will be our 8-9 significant contributors. Some teams only have 7 and some have 9, but 8 most typical.

Here are 9 along with some ranges of likely minutes this year, starting with the 4 certains + 1 most likely:
- Ace (28-34 minutes, he likes to play lots)
- Dylan (28-32)
- JWill (24-32)
- GG (10-30)
- Lathan (8-20)

Our other 4 are:
- Jamichael (10-20)
- Portal center (15-30, depends how good he is)
- Portal 3/4 (10-30, depends how good he is)
- Portal 2/3 (10-25, depends how good he is)
(Minutes for the last 2 also depends on how good GG is this coming year. I’m bullish on GG making a nice leap this year!)

 

[seansherm]

You have no idea how many portal kids we’re shopping for. Nobody does. I predict we will bring in at least one Cam type. Noah was that type too by the way. Fully expected to start - just didn’t pan out. I don’t think we’ll go with someone coming off major injury this time. That doesn’t mean Gavin won’t play his way into starter minutes but that’s not going to be the expectation going into the season. By all counts, he did not have a good frosh year. Will have to prove himself next season.

Anyone that expected Noah to be a Cam type was on crack. Besides being half a foot shorter and not putting up the same #'s at a lower level, he was never as well rounded and efficient as Cam and his 42% three point season came in 11 games and was over like 40 shots.
I do think Gavin plays his way into starter minutes as we won't bring in better at that position. I'd be happy to be wrong, but I think the dreams of this portal talent are going to be a little overblown. We'll get solid players though.

 

[FAT MOON]

He doesn't like stars he likes potential. If you don't see that Gavin shows unbelievable potential then I am not sure what to say. He has everything you want in an offensive player. Just has to be unlocked.

I think you're both right...

He has to care about stars...at least a bit. It's not good business in the recruiting world to have top 40 kids come play for you and flame out. You will be negatively recruited against for the next one for sure.

But yes...more so the potential of Gavin is what keeps getting him minutes and chances and will continue to do so. I've been told he looks like the best player on the team in scrimmages/pickup. It's his brain and the speed/complexity of the college game that is making him look slow or timid out there. When he can just go out and play he's a stud. I think we see a much better version of him next season.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Agreed.
But JWill without the ball isn't pulling his man away from the paint.

If I was an opposing coach I would 100% cheat off JWill. Let him take all the ball reversal shots.
At 25%, every 3pt shot he takes is a win if it means Ace/Dylan don't have the ball.

If someone like Cam (not him actually but similar profile) was standing on the other side of the court from Dylan/Ace - it's a real defensive conundrum.

what makes you think Ace is going to shoot it much higher than 25%?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Anyone that expected Noah to be a Cam type was on crack. Besides being half a foot shorter and not putting up the same #'s at a lower level, he was never as well rounded and efficient as Cam and his 42% three point season came in 11 games and was over like 40 shots.
I do think Gavin plays his way into starter minutes as we won't bring in better at that position. I'd be happy to be wrong, but I think the dreams of this portal talent are going to be a little overblown. We'll get solid players though.

anyone who expected Cam to be a Cam type was on crack too.

 

[seansherm]

anyone who expected Cam to be a Cam type was on crack too.

Not sure anyone did at the time, but he was pretty highly thought of, much more than Noah was

 

[seansherm]

what makes you think Ace is going to shoot it much higher than 25%?

This is something I haven't seen many others say, and think it's possible. I brought up the other day, what if Ace has a freshman season similar to Antoine Walker's soph year at Kentucky? He didn't take a ton of them, but shot 18% from three that year, before becoming a mid 30's guy in the pro's. I think it's more likely he has a Hyatt shooting type year 45%/32% on more shots, but anything is possible with freshman.
Is it possible next years team isn't very good shooting from outside either?