Last year’s RU team would’ve lost this IL game too

[BillyC80]

To wit, previous 4 home games at the RAC:
Loss to Nebraska, 82-72
Loss to Michigan, 58-45
Loss to Northwestern, 65-53
Loss to Hofstra, 88-86

And none of those teams were as good as the IL team we played yesterday.

The excuse last year was that we were missing Mag. If that’s true then it applies this year too.

Plus we had two starters who left us high and dry at the last minute, leaving us to make do with two freshmen and two transfers recovering from season-ending injuries.

I prefer to believe the RU team we saw yesterday that cut the deficit from 16 to 3 is the team we will build on going forward this year.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Perhaps. This Illinois team is good but we made them much better than they are. Cliff looked like he had never played the game before and keeping Fernandes on Shannon was beyond mind-boggling. The best 3 point shooter in the B1G was left wide open repeatedly. It’s like there was no preparation at all for this game.

 

[zappaa]

To wit, previous 4 home games at the RAC:
Loss to Nebraska, 82-72
Loss to Michigan, 58-45
Loss to Northwestern, 65-53
Loss to Hofstra, 88-86

And none of those teams were as good as the IL team we played yesterday.

The excuse last year was that we were missing Mag. If that’s true then it applies this year too.

Plus we had two starters who left us high and dry at the last minute, leaving us to make do with two freshmen and two transfers recovering from season-ending injuries.

I prefer to believe the RU team we saw yesterday that cut the deficit from 16 to 3 is the team we will build on going forward this year.

Why didn’t the players that cut the lead from 16 to 3 play more?

 

[BillyC80]

Perhaps. This Illinois team is good but we made them much better than they are. Cliff looked like he had never played the game before and keeping Fernandes on Shannon was beyond mind-boggling. The best 3 point shooter in the B1G was left wide open repeatedly. It’s like there was no preparation at all for this game.

In some ways yes but we also made them look bad at times, especially the way we forced them into 15 turnovers.

 

[BillyC80]

Why didn’t the players that cut the lead from 16 to 3 play more?

Good question. Pike has to figure out the PT and the rotations and fix that to maximize results.

 

[jerseybird]

Why didn’t the players that cut the lead from 16 to 3 play more?

Maybe there is an informal player rotation formula to get the younger guys like Simpson, Woolfork, Davis & Griffiths into various game situations since they have the biggest need to improve throughout the season. Next year, there will be 4 (5?) frosh that will need playing time to either help the team immediately or gain experience on the B1G level. The young guys of the past two seasons will be the new leaders.

 

[RUJMM78]

The leaders of next season will be Harper and Bailey. Returning players will be mostly complementary players except for Griffiths and Mag.

 

[BillyC80]

The leaders of next season will be Harper and Bailey. Returning players will be mostly complementary players except for Griffiths and Mag.

Don’t sleep on JMike, he’s got skills and gives good effort on D, fighting over screens, etc. He definitely has the makings of a leader by example.

Rewatched the game last night and that move he made to the hoop, finishing with his left hand (the shot went in and out, plus he was fouled, no call) was stellar.

He also knocked down his only 3-point attempt as we mounted our comeback in the first half.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We had 3 different teams last year.

Team 1 early season with Caleb and Paul recovering or out from injuries
Team 2 all healthy playing real hard with unsustainable minutes given the intensity and lack of depth
Team 3 no Mag and running on fumes

Team 1 and 3 would have had the same results. I can't say the same for Team 2

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Don’t sleep on JMike, he’s got skills and gives good effort on D, fighting over screens, etc. He definitely has the makings of a leader by example.

In the next 5 games I want to see 5 plays where he is driving to the hoop, gets in the paint and makes a successful pass to a teammate. Just looking for 1 per game.

I am sick of tired at our guards getting to the rim and missing.

 

[BillyC80]

We had 3 different teams last year.

Team 1 early season with Caleb and Paul recovering or out from injuries
Team 2 all healthy playing real hard with unsustainable minutes given the intensity and lack of depth
Team 3 no Mag and running on fumes

Team 1 and 3 would have had the same results. I can't say the same for Team 2

We will see different versions of this year’s team as well.

Running on fumes is correct. Just took a peek at the Nebraska game box score from last year, and all 5 of our starters played 30+ minutes each, plus Simpson at 19 minutes. So a 6-man rotation, and we lost that game at home by 10 points.

This year Pike is going 9 deep and that’s without Mag and Ogbole yet, and potentially (though not likely) Jeremiah.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Two things: they're often not getting free to the rim in a way that makes for easy layups; and they aren't good shooters. There is no special disease of an inexplicable inability to hit easy layups that affects only RU players.

 

[BillyC80]

In the next 5 games I want to see 5 plays where he is driving to the hoop, gets in the paint and makes a successful pass to a teammate. Just looking for 1 per game.

I am sick of tired at our guards getting to the rim and missing.

Yeah, me too. For a true freshman I’ll cut him some slack for now, but he needs to show more court awareness. One of my litmus tests is, do I feel confident seeing him on the floor, and the answer is definitely yes.

 

[RutgersChow]

At this point in the season freshmen are still doing things they got away with in high school. JD will figure it out.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We will see different versions of this year’s team as well.

Running on fumes is correct. Just took a peek at the Nebraska game box score from last year, and all 5 of our starters played 30+ minutes each, plus Simpson at 19 minutes. So a 6-man rotation, and we lost that game at home by 10 points.

This year Pike is going 9 deep and that’s without Mag and Ogbole yet, and potentially (though not likely) Jeremiah.

Unfortunately it feels like we have 1 starter and 8 reserves. The 1 starter isnt having a good start to the year

Out starting 3 and 4 are a player who played his way out of the rotation last year on a team with no depth and a backup center.

That is the reality if where we are. I have a tough time saying we have depth.

 

[RW90]

Unfortunately it feels like we have 1 starter and 8 reserves. The 1 starter isnt having a good start to the year

Out starting 3 and 4 are a player who played his way out of the rotation last year on a team with no depth and a backup center.

That is the reality if where we are. I have a tough time saying we have depth.

This. The reason for the perceived depth is at this point is other than Cliff, no one has justified a starting position on this team.

 

[RW90]

In the next 5 games I want to see 5 plays where he is driving to the hoop, gets in the paint and makes a successful pass to a teammate. Just looking for 1 per game.

I am sick of tired at our guards getting to the rim and missing.

You can include Hyatt as well.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You can include Hyatt as well.

He isn't a PG....on the MIL list he is Like to have

 

[RU84]

In the next 5 games I want to see 5 plays where he is driving to the hoop, gets in the paint and makes a successful pass to a teammate. Just looking for 1 per game.

I am sick of tired at our guards getting to the rim and missing.

I expect some of those shots on drives to start falling. JMike is a freshman and Simpson only a sophomore ... players can develop and get better but they need to cut their teeth in games. In the meantime you have to live with some misses. Last year Simpson took heat from some folks for his low 3pt shooting pct of 21%, this year it's over 50%! I had no problem seeing him shoot 3's because I was confident he has upside and would get better. Same reason I have no problem seeing them drive to the hoop.
Agree, if it's a highly contested shot better to pass but that decision making comes from seasoning, experience and coaching. Also, it would help if we had cutters across the baseline or Cliff down low they can feed the ball to like Illinois did when their drivers were cut off. Illinois is a veteran senior laden team, you would expect them to make better decisions and look crisper on offense than RU at this early stage of the season. I expect things will get better as time goes on.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I expect some of those shots on drives to start falling. JMike is a freshman and Simpson only a sophomore ... players can develop and get better but they need to cut their teeth in games. In the meantime you have to live with some misses. Last year Simpson took heat from some folks for his low 3pt shooting pct of 21%, this year it's over 50%! I had no problem seeing him shoot 3's because I was confident he has upside and would get better. Same reason I have no problem seeing them drive to the hoop.
Agree, if it's a highly contested shot better to pass but that decision making comes from seasoning, experience and coaching. Also, it would help if we had cutters across the baseline or Cliff down low they can feed the ball to like Illinois did when their drivers were cut off. Illinois is a veteran senior laden team, you would expect them to make better decisions and look crisper on offense than RU at this early stage of the season. I expect things will get better as time goes on.

Some will fall and most won't. We sat thru 3 years of crappy offense with Corey Sanders. his attempts at the rim had low percentages...he was better than the 3 guards we have.

 

[bac2therac]

last year without Mag, RU went on the road to Ilinois led at half and into the first half before a 19-0 run over 10 minutes did them...same story consistent with every Pike team going through long scoring droughts that doom them

 

[RU84]

Some will fall and most won't. We sat thru 3 years of crappy offense with Corey Sanders. his attempts at the rim had low percentages...he was better than the 3 guards we have.

You need players like that on your team. Corey Sanders wasn't the problem, he was the only weapon we had. There was no supporting cast. Would you rather run it back with last years offensively challenged team without those types of players on your team? What's the definition of insanity again ...?

 

[richthedentist]

Don’t sleep on JMike, he’s got skills and gives good effort on D, fighting over screens, etc. He definitely has the makings of a leader by example.

Rewatched the game last night and that move he made to the hoop, finishing with his left hand (the shot went in and out, plus he was fouled, no call) was stellar.

He also knocked down his only 3-point attempt as we mounted our comeback in the first half.

That 3 pointer was l think only his second hoop all year and definitely his first 3 lets tell it like it is he is a terrible shooter and even when he drives by people he constantly gets his layups blocked or can't finish them; ;he is good on defense but is a liability on offense

 

[bac2therac]

J Mike a complimentary player as a freshmen. That he almost is being forced to play such a big role now is an indictment on Pikes recruiting and roster management the last few years. The days of players being able to develop and be a star their 4th year are over. If you want to bring a J Mike along slow you better make sure the other guard Simpson is good enough and im not sure he is

 

[rubjk]

J Mike a complimentary player as a freshmen. That he almost is being forced to play such a big role now is an indictment on Pikes recruiting and roster management the last few years. The days of players being able to develop and be a star their 4th year are over. If you want to bring a J Mike along slow you better make sure the other guard Simpson is good enough and im not sure he is

If Paul and Cam didn’t leave last minute the roster would have been fine. He was a bit blindsided.

 

[Section114]

J Mike a complimentary player as a freshmen. That he almost is being forced to play such a big role now is an indictment on Pikes recruiting and roster management the last few years. The days of players being able to develop and be a star their 4th year are over. If you want to bring a J Mike along slow you better make sure the other guard Simpson is good enough and im not sure he is

If Paul & Cam didn’t bolt, Simpson can play a meaningful reserve role and JMike can come along more slowly. Those two guys leaving did us in.

 

[bac2therac]

If Paul and Cam didn’t leave last minute the roster would have been fine. He was a bit blindsided.

and thats the new world of NIL that brutally sucks. This staff needs to embrace the idea of one year guys and players being bought and sold. Perhaps they needed to coddle Paul and Cam more. I was stunned that Mag was going to leave. Staff needs to be 100% on these kids everyday making sure they know whats going on.

 

[BillyC80]

That 3 pointer was l think only his second hoop all year and definitely his first 3 lets tell it like it is he is a terrible shooter and even when he drives by people he constantly gets his layups blocked or can't finish them; ;he is good on defense but is a liability on offense

Rich, the kid has a whopping 7 college games under his belt. If he doesn’t improve then of course his minutes should be cut back.

In his 7 college games he’s shooting only 26% from the floor (29% from the arc) and 39% from the foul line. Both are bad stats but the sample size is still small.

Meanwhile he’s averaging 3.9 points, 3.3 rebounds, 2.4 assists, and less than 1 turnover per game while playing solid defense with great effort.

 

[RU-ROCS]

To wit, previous 4 home games at the RAC:
Loss to Nebraska, 82-72
Loss to Michigan, 58-45
Loss to Northwestern, 65-53
Loss to Hofstra, 88-86

And none of those teams were as good as the IL team we played yesterday.

The excuse last year was that we were missing Mag. If that’s true then it applies this year too.

Plus we had two starters who left us high and dry at the last minute, leaving us to make do with two freshmen and two transfers recovering from season-ending injuries.

I prefer to believe the RU team we saw yesterday that cut the deficit from 16 to 3 is the team we will build on going forward this year.

It's not just a loss, it's how we lost. yes, ILmis good. But, RU getting out rebounded by 28 is really unbelievably bad and suggests a total lack of effort and discipline. That is alarming.

 

[RU-ROCS]

and thats the new world of NIL that brutally sucks. This staff needs to embrace the idea of one year guys and players being bought and sold. Perhaps they needed to coddle Paul and Cam more. I was stunned that Mag was going to leave. Staff needs to be 100% on these kids everyday making sure they know whats going on.

I thought Mag can’t get NIL because he’s on a foreign student visa. Has that changed?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You need players like that on your team. Corey Sanders wasn't the problem, he was the only weapon we had. There was no supporting cast. Would you rather run it back with last years offensively challenged team without those types of players on your team? What's the definition of insanity again ...?

no we dont

 

[RU84]

J Mike a complimentary player as a freshmen. That he almost is being forced to play such a big role now is an indictment on Pikes recruiting and roster management the last few years. The days of players being able to develop and be a star their 4th year are over. If you want to bring a J Mike along slow you better make sure the other guard Simpson is good enough and im not sure he is

That's why vets like Fernandes and the Williams' were brought in.

 

[RUPete]

Two things: they're often not getting free to the rim in a way that makes for easy layups; and they aren't good shooters. There is no special disease of an inexplicable inability to hit easy layups that affects only RU players.

Yup. They are only penetrating so far before the shots are contested and generally they can't get through it or finish.

 

[RU84]

no we dont

So you'd rather have players like Paul, Cam, etc. who aren't serious threats to drive to the rim and add another dimension to pressure the defense? Then you get the offense that's limited in the half court and also doesn't run the break particularly well. You realize that every top team in the country has players that can run the floor and are a threat to drive in to score at any time but RU doesn't need them?

 

[jerseybird]

The leaders of next season will be Harper and Bailey. Returning players will be mostly complementary players except for Griffiths and Mag.

A four- or five-star rating does not give freshmen any leverage in exhibiting the actual leadership skills necessary for guiding a college team. That is earned by experience.

 

[willisneverrana43]

. . . Perhaps they needed to coddle Paul and Cam more. . . . .

If by coddle you mean pay, then it may have worked.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

So you'd rather have players like Paul, Cam, etc. who aren't serious threats to drive to the rim and add another dimension to pressure the defense? Then you get the offense that's limited in the half court and also doesn't run the break particularly well. You realize that every top team in the country has players that can run the floor and are a threat to drive in to score at any time but RU doesn't need them?

Yes.

Our offense right now is ranked 295th....our offense is as good as a an average NEC team.

Our guards are the players with the ball in their hands the most and they are not creating for others. I am sick and tired off them putting their head down and getting to the rim and rarely scoring.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Paul got and gets to the rim...it just takes longer. When he gets their he is looking for the highest percentage play.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

A four- or five-star rating does not give freshmen any leverage in exhibiting the actual leadership skills necessary for guiding a college team. That is earned by experience.

Not normally, but next year who knows.

It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if you saw a complete roster overhaul going in to next year.

 

[bac2therac]

If by coddle you mean pay, then it may have worked.

yes pay..we need to pay to win and apparently we were not able or willing to..probably not able but