Let's just get it out of the way with Schiano

[mildone]

Why couldn't we fire him? Why would we have a $10 million buyout? Is Hobbs going to give the next coach automatic extensions even when we aren't under threat of sanctions?

The point is when Schiano is gone, even if it is only 3-5 years after he comes, the program will be in much better shape for the next coach than it is now. The best X's and O's coach in the world is going to have trouble winning quickly, while he has recruiting momentum, with what Ash will be leaving him.

I don't see why people keep saying Schiano will be so great at recruiting this time around. It's possible. But it's far from a safe assumption.

The moment at which getting into the Big Ten would've helped w/recruiting was when we first entered the Big Ten. Right now, being in the Big Ten (and being crushed constantly) isn't exactly helping with recruiting. Or at least I'd say that the negatives seem to be outweighing the positives.

Also, recruits often form bonds with assistant coaches first, before they meet w/the head coach. It's unclear who would come to RU to coach w/Schiano, and how good they would be at recruiting. It's an unknown. But one would think the better of Schiano's past assistant coaches would, if they are any good, have moved up in the world of coaching and would be unattainable by RU now.

Schiano's reputation improved due to his great program building work here at RU. But then it took some severe hits after. And even now, his stint at OSU is not necessarily helping his case.

I think people tend to place too much emphasis on Schiano's past program building success at RU in forming opinions about how he'd do if he came back. The people who adore Schiano are older RU fans, not high school kids who were little kids when Schiano was having a modicum of short-term success at RU. I think those people are projecting their fondness for what Shiano did onto 17 year olds who have no reason at all to feel the same way.

So yeah, he might recruit better than Ash would (which is setting the bar very low). But would he do well enough to make a substantial difference in just 3 years? I tend to think we're looking at another long term project. And if it's going to be a long term project, why shouldn't RU widen it's gaze beyond one person from the past?

 

[zappaa]

Good job. Your explanation is exactly the explanation that I said wasn't acceptable as an explanation.

You're missing the point. Schiano said that the program he was putting in place would last forever, would withstand anything. This is factually incorrect. Therefore, he didn't meet his stated goal.

You guys want to redefine "success" after the fact. I'm not willing to do that. Schiano had some successful seasons. The program itself was not, long-term, successful.

That’s crazy, nothing survives a shit coach.
Just look at Michigan before Harbough.
Didn’t Louisville get Kragthorped?
Nothing is built to withstand incompetence

Flood was an excellent hire as OL coach... Yes will verify that.

 

[mildone]

Those of us who aren't overjoyed at the prospect of having Schiano back don't hate him at all. I think there's a lot of respect for what he accomplished here, actually.

All we're doing is unemotionally stating facts about which some of you, who are clearly emotionally attached to Schiano, are getting offended. It's kind of funny that those of you with such an emotional attachment to the man react by falsely accusing those of us being unemotional about it all of harboring some emotional hatred of the guy.

Such is the way of internet forums, I guess.

 

[bethlehemfan]

In the last 40 years rutgers was a program respected by the outside world under one coach. Yea, I would be ok with that again.

 

[zappaa]

Those of us who aren't overjoyed at the prospect of having Schiano back don't hate him at all. I think there's a lot of respect for what he accomplished here, actually.

All we're doing is unemotionally stating facts about which some of you, who are clearly emotionally attached to Schiano, are getting offended. It's kind of funny that those of you with such an emotional attachment to the man react by falsely accusing those of us being unemotional about it all of harboring some emotional hatred of the guy.

Such is the way of internet forums, I guess.

The fact he made us relevant, expanded the stadium, doubled season ticket sales, got us into the B1G and gave us a lot of NFL talent to look at... those facts?

 

[RU4Real]

That’s crazy, nothing survives a shit coach.
Just look at Michigan before Harbough.
Didn’t Louisville get Kragthorped?
Nothing is built to withstand incompetence

Flood was an excellent hire as OL coach... Yes will verify that.

Michigan before Harbaugh?

You mean Brady Hoke? The guy who went 31-20 with an 18-14 B1G record?

With those numbers he would be the most successful Rutgers football coach in the modern era.

Kragthorpe at Louisville was an outside hire and not a very good one. But Flood was inside the program. He was a known commodity. He was a Schiano hire. If he was incapable of recruiting or anything less than the best candidate for the HC job then Schiano and Pernetti should have understood that and we should have gone in a different direction.

Also, let's not forget that Pernetti himself was AD for no other reason than Schiano insisted upon it.

Part of "built to last" means that there's a succession plan. All good businesses have them and all the best football programs have them.

Schiano jumped to the NFL after 11 years here and we didn't have a proper succession plan. And that is absolutely his failure. And it's yet another contradiction to his "program builder" resume.

 

[zappaa]

Michigan before Harbaugh?

You mean Brady Hoke? The guy who went 31-20 with an 18-14 B1G record?

With those numbers he would be the most successful Rutgers football coach in the modern era.

Kragthorpe at Louisville was an outside hire and not a very good one. But Flood was inside the program. He was a known commodity. He was a Schiano hire. If he was incapable of recruiting or anything less than the best candidate for the HC job then Schiano and Pernetti should have understood that and we should have gone in a different direction.

Also, let's not forget that Pernetti himself was AD for no other reason than Schiano insisted upon it.

What a bunch of horse crap your spewing.
Michigan sucked under Hoke, and Kragthorpe was on the staff

 

[mildone]

That’s crazy, nothing survives a shit coach.
Just look at Michigan before Harbough.
Didn’t Louisville get Kragthorped?
Nothing is built to withstand incompetence

I understand your point, I think. But after giving it more thought, I think @RU4Real is more right than wrong.

A big-time winning program can and will survive a shit coach because it will self-correct with a better coach. And because the program recruits itself. At which point that winning program can recover much more rapidly than a program with no particular reputation as being a big-time winning program.

Schiano got a lot done in that time, and things were trending upwards when he left (after a bit of a down cycle). But even after 11 years, RU was still not a program that recruits itself despite the coach. There was a lot more work to do and Flood even close to being up to the job, so the trend reversed quickly.

Ash probably isn't up to the job either. I also don't think Schiano, if he came back now, would be up for the job. Because the fan base isn't as patient as it was during Schiano's first stint here.

 

[RU1993]

Now we are judging a coach from Rutgers on their "coaching tree"?
The fact that he even has a "coaching tree", that includes more than one power-five head coach, is a pretty impressive if you ask me.

No it's not, the coaching turnover during the Schiano's time was unbelievable

 

[RU4Real]

What a bunch of horse crap your spewing

It's not "horse crap". It's the way leadership and management work in the big boy world.

 

[mildone]

In the last 40 years rutgers was a program respected by the outside world under one coach. Yea, I would be ok with that again.

For non-RU fans, the RUFB program only ever had momentary recognition as potentially being up and coming for a couple seasons. To say the program was respected by the outside world is, IMO, overstating things from a very RU-fan-centric perspective.

 

[mildone]

The fact he made us relevant, expanded the stadium, doubled season ticket sales, got us into the B1G and gave us a lot of NFL talent to look at... those facts?

Nobody here is taking that away from him. It's why we respect the work he did here.

But those things don't equate to him being a great head coach or the right person to come back and change things again. Had he stayed w/the program, back when he left for the NFL, then I think he definitely would've had a good deal more success. I don't think too many people are arguing otherwise.

But he didn't stay. And the fan-base isn't patient enough to wait another 11 years for him to turn things around. Or even 5 years.

 

[mildone]

What a bunch of horse crap your spewing.
Michigan sucked under Hoke, and Kragthorpe was on the staff

And yet his coaching record at UM was objectively better than Schiano's at RU. All things are relative.

 

[bethlehemfan]

For non-RU fans, the RUFB program only ever had momentary recognition as potentially being up and coming for a couple seasons. To say the program was respected by the outside world is, IMO, overstating things from a very RU-fan-centric perspective.

Lol. The resident bloviator has spoken

 

[RU4Real]

What a bunch of horse crap your spewing.
Michigan sucked under Hoke, and Kragthorpe was on the staff

What the f*ck are you talking about?

Michigan had 1 losing season (out of 3) under Hoke. They went 5-7 his last year. Prior to that he was 26-13. Again, as @mildone and I have both said, that would make him by far the best coach RU has ever had.

As for Kragthorpe - WRONG. He was HC at Tulsa when he was hired in '07 to be the HC at Louisville. Another Jurich fiasco. The guy used to walk around the locker room with a baseball bat to "motivate his players".

 

[krup]

I don't see why people keep saying Schiano will be so great at recruiting this time around. It's possible. But it's far from a safe assumption.

The moment at which getting into the Big Ten would've helped w/recruiting was when we first entered the Big Ten. Right now, being in the Big Ten (and being crushed constantly) isn't exactly helping with recruiting. Or at least I'd say that the negatives seem to be outweighing the positives.

Also, recruits often form bonds with assistant coaches first, before they meet w/the head coach. It's unclear who would come to RU to coach w/Schiano, and how good they would be at recruiting. It's an unknown. But one would think the better of Schiano's past assistant coaches would, if they are any good, have moved up in the world of coaching and would be unattainable by RU now.

Schiano's reputation improved due to his great program building work here at RU. But then it took some severe hits after. And even now, his stint at OSU is not necessarily helping his case.

I think people tend to place too much emphasis on Schiano's past program building success at RU in forming opinions about how he'd do if he came back. The people who adore Schiano are older RU fans, not high school kids who were little kids when Schiano was having a modicum of short-term success at RU. I think those people are projecting their fondness for what Shiano did onto 17 year olds who have no reason at all to feel the same way.

So yeah, he might recruit better than Ash would (which is setting the bar very low). But would he do well enough to make a substantial difference in just 3 years? I tend to think we're looking at another long term project. And if it's going to be a long term project, why shouldn't RU widen it's gaze beyond one person from the past?

Nothing in life is guaranteed, but I would certainly bet on the guy who has done it before versus someone who hasn't.

And the bigger factor is that he would have a different timeline. He can sell the actual history where he did turn Rutgers around, but he took 5 years. A new coach has to try and make recruits believe he can do it, and even if they believe initially they will stop believing after 2-3 years of losing.

I would have had no problem with a better game coach than Schiano being hired if it happened this year. There is still some talent in the program with this just finished sophomore class. After another year (and maybe 2 years) of decline under Ash, the next hire won't have anything to work with at the start.

By the way, you lose all credibility when you say Schiano "might" recruit better than Ash.

 

[OldManRiver]

What a bunch of horse crap your spewing.
Michigan sucked under Hoke, and Kragthorpe was on the staff

Michigan sucked in Michigan terms....not in RU terms....as stated he would have been a modern day RU football icon with his record...he recruited lights out...which is what we are clammering about here in NJ.... aren't we?

Krags came to Louisville from Tulsa...was head coach there...was not on staff of Petrino

 

[e5fdny]

The most important thing on this whole topic is we got “boobs” back on the Free Board.

Let’s expand on that instead.:sunglasses:

 

[cicero grimes]

The sad part is that this debate although informative and entertaining is all moot. I have come to believe that Ash will be here through 2020. The buyout after next year is still 8 million and it appears both Ash and Hobbs seem to think 2018 was year one of the process since the prior two years when sanctions were pending did not count.

 

[TODDB33]

To put it more succinctly:
Greg Schiano was a Rutgers football fans first girlfriend. It was young, new , and exciting. However, at times it was maddening and drove you nuts. But you got to touch boob and it was your first taste of boob.
A portion of this fan base thinks boob is enough and think its the best boob they will ever get. Others want more, they want the sects.

Great analogy now I will be chasing my wife all over house for some booby

 

[OldManRiver]

The most important thing on this whole topic is we got “boobs” back on the Free Board.

Let’s expand on that instead.:sunglasses:

 

[bitnez]

Head coaching experience, Jersey guy, building program from ground up: yes. But only RU fans who were fans when he was here would call him a "big name coach".

I disagree with this. A lot of my clients who are not alums or RU fans but know I’m a RU alum and fan bring up the topic of the football team. I always hear the same thing — “you guys were right there with Schiano.”

Schiano moved the needle locally even with non-fans. Who cares if he would not be considered a “big name coach” nationally becuse he definitely would locally.

 

[zappaa]

Michigan before Harbaugh?

You mean Brady Hoke? The guy who went 31-20 with an 18-14 B1G record?

With those numbers he would be the most successful Rutgers football coach in the modern era.

Kragthorpe at Louisville was an outside hire and not a very good one. But Flood was inside the program. He was a known commodity. He was a Schiano hire. If he was incapable of recruiting or anything less than the best candidate for the HC job then Schiano and Pernetti should have understood that and we should have gone in a different direction.

Also, let's not forget that Pernetti himself was AD for no other reason than Schiano insisted upon it.

Part of "built to last" means that there's a succession plan. All good businesses have them and all the best football programs have them.

Schiano jumped to the NFL after 11 years here and we didn't have a proper succession plan. And that is absolutely his failure. And it's yet another contradiction to his "program builder" resume.

Big deal, Flood and Ash would have matched his record at Michigan

 

[RU4Real]

Big deal, Flood and Ash would have matched his record at Michigan

You make an awful lot of assertions that are completely unsupportable.

I feel like this entire topic is nothing but emotion for you. I think it's best to simply not discuss it.

Schiano is never coming back here. The sooner everyone gets their heads around that, the better off we'll be.

 

[e5fdny]

Big deal, Flood and Ash would have matched his record at Michigan

But Greg would have done better?

 

[tico brown]

Big deal, Flood and Ash would have matched his record at Michigan

Now youre talking nonsense here. Those two are over their heads at Rutgers. At least one of them would crap on themselves at Michigan.

 

[tico brown]

But Greg would have done better?

Couldnt do better as DC at OSU.

 

[zappaa]

But Greg would have done better?

Yup, did Flood and will Ash take us to number 12 in entire country?

 

[BlockR]

You make an awful lot of assertions that are completely unsupportable.

I feel like this entire topic is nothing but emotion for you. I think it's best to simply not discuss it.

Schiano is never coming back here. The sooner everyone gets their heads around that, the better off we'll be.

and you know this how?

 

[Bagarocks]

Shiano was the right coach at the right time for Rutgers.
He will forever be the Coach that brought the program up from the ashes.
I Believe he is a better DC than HC. His Defense can win Championships. HC not so much.
IMO we need a coach that can compete at the upper echelon of the B1G and Shiano is not that coach.

 

[zappaa]

Shiano was the right coach at the right time for Rutgers.
He will forever be the Coach that brought the program up from the ashes.
I Believe he is a better DC than HC. His Defense can win Championships. HC not so much.
IMO we need a coach that can compete at the upper echelon of the B1G and Shiano is not that coach.

He’d be taking over a program as shitty as the last time he took over...

 

[Knight Shift]

A search of Greg Schiano on Twitter reveals:









His job as a HC in the NFL ended with him being fired and multiple controversies (accusations of leaking medical information of players).

Aside from what Greg did here 2000-2011 at Rutgers, what has he done SINCE THEN that merits consideration to be hired elsewhere?

 

[RUich]

You're missing the point. Schiano said that the program he was putting in place would last forever, would withstand anything. This is factually incorrect. Therefore, he didn't meet his stated goal.

One has to assume that he thought the administration finally saw the light and would continue to support the program since it would mean a lot of better things for Rutgers. I think we would have been in the BIG or another P5 conference even quicker if Greg had stayed.
Once he left, we just went back to our penny pinching ways and level of support. Thus, you have what we are now.

 

[RU4Real]

One has to assume that he thought the administration finally saw the light and would continue to support the program since it would mean a lot of better things for Rutgers. I think we would have been in the BIG or another P5 conference even quicker if Greg had stayed.
Once he left, we just went back to our penny pinching ways and level of support. Thus, you have what we are now.

But... "the administration", in the immediate wake of his departure, was a guy who he had essentially handpicked as Athletic Director.

Tim Pernetti hiring Kyle Flood as HC was a very, very bad move. But logically, it wasn't the *first* bad move. That would be RU hiring Tim Pernetti as AD.

 

[OldManRiver]

He’d be taking over a program as shitty as the last time he took over...

But everyone is aware of his limitations second time around...mediocre head head at winning

 

[brgRC90]

The fact he made us relevant

We were never really relevant under Schiano except one year.

 

[rutger80]

For those of you who don't think Schiano is a 'long-term' fit, is anyone, really? How long does the average college coach last? There aren't a lot of decade guys out there.
Just remember as well, you're not getting the 2011 Schiano. You'd think there would have been a few more lessons he imparted since then, that might lend themselves to different actions this time around.

 

[RULoyal]

We were never really relevant under Schiano except one year.

Depends on how you define relevant. I can tell what we weren’t under GS - the laughing stock of college football.

 

[Abro1975]

But everyone is aware of his limitations second time around...mediocre head head at winning

"Good enough that Greg Schiano turned down two offers to leave for a promotion, according to coach Urban Meyer.

"He was offered two head coaching jobs -- two significant head coaching jobs -- and he made a decision to come back," Meyer said when asked by NJ Advance Media. "I've known Greg for a long time -- and he's a head coach. He will be a head coach (again)."

One of those two jobs is believed to be Oregon, which eventually went to South Florida's Willie Taggart. Schiano was also linked to Tampa-based South Florida this past offseason, when it was a relatively quiet coaching carousel.

Two years ago -- before landing at Ohio State -- he was in the mix at Southern California, Miami, South Carolina and possibly others.

"I'm going to keep him as long as I can," Meyer said. "I thought he was one of the best I've ever been around. He's a little better than that. That's how good of a coach he is."

Schiano spent 11 seasons in the top seat at Rutgers, building a perennial bowl program from scratch after arriving in 2001. "

https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/...er_greg_schiano_turned_down_2_head_coach.html

 

[Bagarocks]

He’d be taking over a program as shitty as the last time he took over...

I disagree, we have facilities that are on par with the B1G as a whole, with other facilities in various phases to meet B1G standards.
The talent level of this team definitely better than it was his first year as coach.