Let's just get it out of the way with Schiano
- Thread starter yesrutgers01
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Block- why can't you just have the discussion without the haters comments. That is the only thing I had asked for us all not to do. There has been very good discussion so far on both sides and you had to go back to the "hater" crap when someone is having a discussion of their opinion.
Even 4real conceded that maybe you bring back Greg but certainly not at a premium price.
I agree it's better to have someone who has done it before. That's why I would prefer a coach with a better lifetime winning percentage as a head coach.
You have a good point w/respect to Schiano being able to point to his record at RU and say he's turned the RU program around.
Nobody can predict the future with certainty. "Might" or "could" is completely accurate. Further, there's absolutely no possible way to conclusively know who would do better. Not even in hindsight. Because the only way to know, for certain, would be to have one coach coach the team for several years, then roll-back time and have the other coach the team for those exact same years. Only then would the comparison be fair.
You can call me out on being too certain about things and I'll cop to it. But call me out for reserving certainty for things which are actually certain, and I think I'm on safe ground.
Incorrect. That is his main PRO.
Micromanaging is not a bad trait for a CEO at all. It's a positive and anyone who had held a leadership role knows that. Doesn't mean you don't delegate but you have your finger on everything. Being obnoxious and micromanaging are two different things. Can not succeed as fball B10 CEO, especially in a program so far behind as what Flood and Ash have done to it without micromanaging!
I want a CEO who micromanages the f*ck out of our program.
I'm sorry, but people were still laughing at us even then. I think we were getting pretty good. But good is subjective and my opinion doesn't make it true to everyone else across the country.
In order for us to make an objective case for relevance, I think Schiano would have had to have won a couple conference championships in his 11 years here. Again, just my opinion.
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One of my favorite analogies on this board in ever...still cracking up
They're just being kind because they want you to give them a discount for whatever it is that you provide to them. ;)
Seriously though, I think we were right there with Schiano. For about 4 or 5 years. But the expression conveys "almost". We never really quite made it.
Had Schiano stayed, I think we might have won the conference outright before moving over to the Big Ten. And I think the move to the Big Ten would've paid off in better recruiting because of our having won the conference.
But that's not how it went. We lost out, by hiring Flood. Schiano lost out, by not being the guy for Tampa Bay. Such is life.
Handpicked, and a guy he could control. Once puppetmaster Greg left, he did not function very well as AD. And he left the guy behind who he knew would have a reasonable shot at being named head coach. He could have done RU a solid and canned Flood before he resigned.
ok..you are right..point taken.Will stop the Hater angle.
Not true. We need to look past W/L record. The next coach will inherit:
Upgraded football stadium with luxury boxes
Improved facilities including state of the art practice facility and locker room.
Member of the most prestigious athletic conference in America.
Improved brand... while “dinged” pre-Schiano there was no identity. See Block R.
Recent success of bowl victories and a period of sustained winning. In other words, it’s not impossible.
A community of recent and current NFL players and stars to promote program. Back in my day there was Deron Cherry. Das it. Battaglia and Lucas were still in school.
As bad as it is, improved donor base. There were no Jeff Towers or Greg Browns pre-Schiano.
And yes, despite the bad hire we have a huge upgrade in AD in Pat Hobbs. Many here don’t like him because of the Ash situation and fear he’s a political appointee, but he is by far and away the most qualified head of the AD in recent memory and that includes Uncle Bob.
Ash will not be a huge success here. Deep down I bet Hobbs knows this. But the next coach, if worth his salt, has a hell of a lot more to work with and sell compared to what we had in 2000. Just give this man the right budget. I don’t buy the narrative that this is a sh*t job that nobody wants. We just have a Looooong history of sh*tty cheap hires.
For the reasons above, I get tired off the “complete rebuild” narrative that Ash keeps slinging. Definitely an uphill battle, but he had none of the above issues when he got here as well as inheriting a better roster than what Greg got. With that said, I tend to agree with @RU4Real and @mildone regarding bringing him back.
Okay then. I will have to redouble my bloviation efforts just for you. I do like a good button to push.
Well, wouldn't you talk up your best buddy if you were asked about his abilities?
Look everyone does not dislike GS for RU...he is going to be put up to a different kind of expectation meter if he were to be at RU for 2nd time.
People are assuming he is going to have all the answers and we will be great forever...finally!
No one can attain success with those expectations...and quite frankly, he doesn't want to be held to that...unless, he is paid by a Brinks truck every payday
I feel like this thread needs a beating a dead horse meme or banging head against a wall meme or maybe just a talking to a wall theme. Nothing in this thread will move the needle on who is coaching Rutgers in 2019. Zero.
Greg Schiano would bring instant stability and credibility to the program. He would win 6, 7 maybe even 8 games and we would go bowling again.
That said, I don't think (IMHO) Greg would ever win the B1G as conference champ. He couldn't win a watered down Big East why would that change in a much more competitive B1G East?
That said, I don't think (IMHO) Greg would ever win the B1G as conference champ. He couldn't win a watered down Big East why would that change in a much more competitive B1G East?
You say he would demand total control like it's bad thing. Who in the AD now has demonstrated any modicum of ability to run a football program?
Anyone is going to demand a lot of money- especially after another likely 1 or 0 win season next year. Do you blame them? The admin brought this on themselves. If someone from the G5 with demonstrated success or a Les Miles type want in for less - great- you won't hear me complain but I don't see it. What we'd get is another DC or OC who cannot run a program and it will not get better.
BINGO! Exactly my thought process as well. GS surfaces not because of an obsession but rather because of a dearth of proven winners who have demonstrated any interest.
Isn't this somewhat of an unfair characterization? I mean do we blame Michigan losing to us on Lloyd Carr? Yeah you have some situations like the Cult where they are basically let off scot free but most schools when you have a scandal there's set backs, like Baylor or Miami.
Bottom line in my view is he did enough to get us to the B1G. That's an insurance policy. It basically means from 2021 on, we can buy our way into stability. Sure, given our admin we'll probably make some terrible hires. But odds are, someone sometime will resuscitate the program. Northwestern is a great example of this.
And also nothing said in this thread will sway anyone to change their mind about whether to bring Greg back to RU. Folks minds are already made up either yay or nay.
Also agree that there should be just one Schiano thread in this forum. With Greg’s employment likely to change soon there will be daily conjecture about where he ends up, even if it’s not here. We’ve got some posters here who are really invested in him. Kind of unusual when a fan here posts that he is mesmerized by Greg’s presence. Hope I never catch that bug, ha!
I would actually compare what you are saying about a CEO to Greg. A CEO needs to micro manage his organization when they are first starting it or trying to turn it around. But they can only get it to a certain point before they stagnate or begin to fail if they don’t learn to delegate and start to take their fingers out of everything.
No one was laughing at Rutgers between 05-09. We may not have won the conference but everyone did start to respect us.
The "win the conference" crap is such garbage.
Really, it's on Greg that Townsend dropped that pass?
It's on Greg that San San missed two FGs against Ville in 11?
It's on Greg that we didn't get an extra FG against Cincy in 08?
Look- whether GS is going to win the B1GE is beyond the point. No one RU is hiring is bringing that demonstrated resume.
And it's not reasonable to expect him to beat tOSU every year when Harbaugh always fails and Franklin mostly does with the talent they have.
Here's what I expect from Greg (or anyone). Be the B1GE version of Iowa. 7-8-9 wins, maybe 4-5-6 or 10-11 every once in a blue moon, clean program, playing meaningful games, giving the big boys at least a scare when they visit, engage the fans. That is a reasonable.
Expecting to regularly win the division is equally unhinged to claiming 1-11 is OK because of stability.
Really, it's on Greg that Townsend dropped that pass?
It's on Greg that San San missed two FGs against Ville in 11?
It's on Greg that we didn't get an extra FG against Cincy in 08?
Look- whether GS is going to win the B1GE is beyond the point. No one RU is hiring is bringing that demonstrated resume.
And it's not reasonable to expect him to beat tOSU every year when Harbaugh always fails and Franklin mostly does with the talent they have.
Here's what I expect from Greg (or anyone). Be the B1GE version of Iowa. 7-8-9 wins, maybe 4-5-6 or 10-11 every once in a blue moon, clean program, playing meaningful games, giving the big boys at least a scare when they visit, engage the fans. That is a reasonable.
Expecting to regularly win the division is equally unhinged to claiming 1-11 is OK because of stability.
I don't get worked up about the win the conference stuff either. Oh- but UConn could...Stop- UConn won it in a very down year with a 5-2 record. Does ANYONE actually think that UConn team was better then 06 or 09 teams. Even our 08 team would have crushed the UConn conference champ team when it was bowl time. Same with talking about his career record. I really only count his record starting in 04. But then again, he still should have done better in conf from 04-11
I am not a fan of him coming back but championships and career record are two BS stats with Greg.
I saw fans of other programs laughing at us right here on this board. And I heard people laughing at us outside the forum. I'm not saying it was justified. But it happened.
Our fan's perception of our program isn't necessarily going to match outsider's perception. Which is probably true of most sports programs. Fans often think things are worse in bad times and better in good times than most outsiders think.
Which strikes me as perfectly normal. I personally couldn't care less what anybody else thinks of RU's FB program. I'm a fan and I'm staying a fan. What others do is their problem.
Not sure I can agree w/that. I tend to agree with Parcels quote: "you are what your record says you are". At the HS varsity level and above, I think winning is the entire reason to play. If we have a choice between a lifetime winning, conference winning coach, and one that isn't, all other things being equal, I'd go with the winner.
[Edit] Before all that, though, I need to learn to write without comma splices. :)
All of us want an improvement from where we are today. That is not debatable - we all agree. Status quo isn't good and needs to change and Greg instantly brings an improvement, credibility, recruiting would improve, RU pride would return, the Chop would be back, etc etc. Greg Schiano is a rock star in NJ - no debate there.
The debate is up to what level do you want Rutgers to go - if all you wish to aspire to is the Iowa of the B1G East then yeah, Greg could probably do that. The thing with that though is, how long would fans start demanding more? We already went through it, it's inevitable that fans would want more eventually. So, then why not just get someone who has the potential to get you to that level instead of the two step process?
Personally, it doesn't matter if the next coach is Greg or some up and coming coach because the unknowns and risks are probably the same. There are no guarantees that Greg would do well in the B1G any more than say Matt Canada or Lane Kiffin would.
By the way, if Greg were to walk in the door tomorrow, McNulty would be the first one to leave out of Ash's coaches. Just FYI for those hung up on nostalgia.
The debate is up to what level do you want Rutgers to go - if all you wish to aspire to is the Iowa of the B1G East then yeah, Greg could probably do that. The thing with that though is, how long would fans start demanding more? We already went through it, it's inevitable that fans would want more eventually. So, then why not just get someone who has the potential to get you to that level instead of the two step process?
Personally, it doesn't matter if the next coach is Greg or some up and coming coach because the unknowns and risks are probably the same. There are no guarantees that Greg would do well in the B1G any more than say Matt Canada or Lane Kiffin would.
By the way, if Greg were to walk in the door tomorrow, McNulty would be the first one to leave out of Ash's coaches. Just FYI for those hung up on nostalgia.
Schiano is a rock star in New Jersey? Really? Among a couple of groups, but most of the state will remember him for being overpaid. (He wasn't, but perspective is not something non-football fans have when it comes to football.)
We had one outstanding season, then a bunch of years where in a tougher conference with even one decent nonconference opponent we probably struggle to get to six wins. Whoop-de-damn-doo.
That being said, duh -- he's better than what we have now. Is that the standard?
When I read the OP, I thought this would be a really good thread, but the Greg-fellaters can't resist calling anyone who doesn't think he's a god a hater.
FACT -- What he did here was remarkable, but nothing is the same as it was then, not Rutgers, not Greg Schiano and not college football.
FACT -- We were an above-average team in an average league. Again, better than what we have now, but it's not like we built on 2006 much.
FACT -- Since leaving here, he has bombed in the NFL (I will be fair -- I thought it was crazy for an NFL team to hire such a micromanager and expected him to bomb. The Bucs should have known better.) But the fact his personality was a bigger issue than his coaching is a problem. A big one.
FACT -- The micromanager thing was fine when you had an AD who not only hired you (as his second choice) but was on the same page as you at a time when we needed so many things for the program. Not so much in any other situation. He also can be a bit of a bully.
FACT -- No, you do not get a statue or a building named after you without winning a conference championship. Or five. Seriously. Think about how low our standards are to even ponder that.
Look, he was the right guy in the right place at the right time. You can't duplicate any of that other than the color of his shirts.
We had one outstanding season, then a bunch of years where in a tougher conference with even one decent nonconference opponent we probably struggle to get to six wins. Whoop-de-damn-doo.
That being said, duh -- he's better than what we have now. Is that the standard?
When I read the OP, I thought this would be a really good thread, but the Greg-fellaters can't resist calling anyone who doesn't think he's a god a hater.
FACT -- What he did here was remarkable, but nothing is the same as it was then, not Rutgers, not Greg Schiano and not college football.
FACT -- We were an above-average team in an average league. Again, better than what we have now, but it's not like we built on 2006 much.
FACT -- Since leaving here, he has bombed in the NFL (I will be fair -- I thought it was crazy for an NFL team to hire such a micromanager and expected him to bomb. The Bucs should have known better.) But the fact his personality was a bigger issue than his coaching is a problem. A big one.
FACT -- The micromanager thing was fine when you had an AD who not only hired you (as his second choice) but was on the same page as you at a time when we needed so many things for the program. Not so much in any other situation. He also can be a bit of a bully.
FACT -- No, you do not get a statue or a building named after you without winning a conference championship. Or five. Seriously. Think about how low our standards are to even ponder that.
Look, he was the right guy in the right place at the right time. You can't duplicate any of that other than the color of his shirts.
This is one reason why I think Schiano would seriously struggle to succeed here if he comes back. You, and many others, expect instant improvement. And if we keep losing most of the games, and keep getting blown out in some, you're going to quickly be disappointed that your expectations weren't met.
I think virtually any coach at all that comes here, that cannot recruit by name-recognition (among 17 year olds) is looking at a minimum of 5 years before improvements start to steadily show up in consistently winning seasons and bowl games. Good luck could speed things up. Bad luck could slow them down. And we could look good for a season when we're deeper with experienced players, and then go back down again.
As far as credibility, I expect Schiano to be better than Flood or Ash. But I would extend no new coach, not even Schiano, any credibility until they earn it now. I don't care where they came from or who they coached in the past.
I keep reading GS was in the right place at the right time. That’s as relevant to me as Art has to be our QB because he’s the right fit.
Was expanding the stadium, building a recruiting lounge, doubling season tickets, bowl games, bowl wins and a lot of NFL players relevant to you... yes or no?
Are you gonna tell me he was in the right place at the right time again.., lol
Really good points.
Only minor issue is the expectation. 8-5 was the steady state Schiano mean in the BE and usually pillow soft OOC. Unless he got 2 games a year smarter, I'd say GS2.0 mean would probably be 6-7 in the B1G.
I'm all for Greg coming back , if he's an on the cheap hire like Rutgers probably would do after buying out Ash.
But I'm sure once Schiano brings RU FB back to respectability and a few minor bowl games, RU fans would get impatient and demand he be replaced by someone who could bring RU into elite status.
Schiano couldn't satisfy RU FB fans expectations his last go round, I don't think he'd do it the second time.
But he would make Rutgers a 7-5/8-4 program on a constant bases and for an on the cheap hire that would make his hiring a successful move.
But after a few years that will not be enough to keep the RU fanbase satisfied and it shouldn't.
So Greg will need to up his game because RU fans don't just want RU to be a respectable program, they want it to be considered an elite one
If Hobbs hired Greg and gave him good money, it would be a mistake because there are better candidates out there if the price is right.
I believe they would be more than likely be able to make RU at top B1G program better than Greg could.
Schiano need to prove his coaching ability at a mid major in order to show he's worthy of coaching at the P-5 level and make that program a constant top 25 team , that is capable of being a playoff contender every couple of years.
But I'm sure once Schiano brings RU FB back to respectability and a few minor bowl games, RU fans would get impatient and demand he be replaced by someone who could bring RU into elite status.
Schiano couldn't satisfy RU FB fans expectations his last go round, I don't think he'd do it the second time.
But he would make Rutgers a 7-5/8-4 program on a constant bases and for an on the cheap hire that would make his hiring a successful move.
But after a few years that will not be enough to keep the RU fanbase satisfied and it shouldn't.
So Greg will need to up his game because RU fans don't just want RU to be a respectable program, they want it to be considered an elite one
If Hobbs hired Greg and gave him good money, it would be a mistake because there are better candidates out there if the price is right.
I believe they would be more than likely be able to make RU at top B1G program better than Greg could.
Schiano need to prove his coaching ability at a mid major in order to show he's worthy of coaching at the P-5 level and make that program a constant top 25 team , that is capable of being a playoff contender every couple of years.
More on Greg on Twitter. Mind you, this is Tennessee fans debating the merits of hiring Kendal Briles.
I have no problem with micromanagement. And who isn’t abrasive at times? Bring Greg home!
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