Montclair State vs RU

[John Otterstedt]

I drove my son over to Montclair State last night so he could watch a hockey game at their arena. I was surprised to see how much the school has changed over the past 20 years. It is a very pretty campus. I believe they only had a few thousand students in 1990, and now they apparently have about 20k....dorms all over the place. The thing I liked most was the new construction. Everything (or at least everything I passed on my short drive) follows the same architectural theme.

This brings me to Rutgers.... I don't mean to offend those who like modern architecture, but I wish that Rutgers could have made a pledge to build all buildings with certain themes and designs in mind, carrying over the general style from the original buildings on College Avenue. BC recently went back and corrected their mistakes of the past by making sure all/most buildings fit their theme. The campus looks light years better than it did in the 90s when BC had a few 1950/1960s looking eye sores.

I know a lot of people like the business building on Livingston, but how long until that no longer looks so shiny and "modern"? I'd say 10 years and people will be saying," What were they thinking? "

 

[PurpleR]

Couldnt agree more. Historic University that seems intent on reproducing the same failures over and over again by putting contemporary architects "Star War" exhibits on campus that look silly and tired ten years later. If the original architecture was carried out throughout the campuses Rutgers would increase its appeal 100%

 

[e5fdny]

It's not their arena just where they play.

Some time ago @ruhudsonfan covered a lot of the same things your talking about with regard to Montclair.

Apparently they have a dynamic president who is a lady with a plan.

 

[sct1111]

This is the reason why the new quad they are building in place of the Brower area is so important. It needs to be cohesive, classic collegiate and beautiful. They better not cut any corners. This plan knocks down many of the eye sores on College Ave and could totally change the facade of the campus.

 

[sct1111]

Couldnt agree more. Historic University that seems intent on reproducing the same failures over and over again by putting contemporary architects "Star War" exhibits on campus that look silly and tired ten years later. If the original architecture was carried out throughout the campuses Rutgers would increase its appeal 100%

I don't mind Busch or Livingston having modern designs. They are the most modern campuses after all. College Ave, however, should not.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Susan cole has embraced the Spanish architecture theme and every new building in the last 15 years has had to follow the theme.

I have some friends who teach there who find it trite at this point. I always thought a thematic approach to a compact campus like theirs was a good idea.

I think RU is much different in both size and scope. College Ave should have a historic colonial theme. Beyond that, I'm not dogmatic in what happens on the other campuses

 

[Scarlet Pride]

The attempt to keep the same style has gone a little overboard and there are a lot of people there that see it as almost obsessive. She is very much focused on image often at the cost of substance both academically and facilities.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Has this done Montclair favors in rankings and student quality? I really haven't kept track of what the other publics are like. That James Madison, Coastal Carolina, USCe and WVU seem really popular in NJ tells me otherwise....

 

[e5fdny]

Has this done Montclair favors in rankings and student quality? I really haven't kept track of what the other publics are like. That James Madison, Coastal Carolina, USCe and WVU seem really popular in NJ tells me otherwise....

Location, location, location...

For a NJ kid those have it and MSU does not.

We have heard the ABR line for some of our FB recruits. Guess you could say the same for the regular student....ABNJ

 

[Scarlet Jerry]

One of the things that Montclair did, and I saw the same thing at Michigan state, was build a parking garage that blends with the architecture of the campus. I wish that RU would put a parking deck in the lot behind Murray Hall and use brick that matches the rest of the surrounding buildings. That would allow them to take away ALL of the parking on the Old Queens campus area. Everything should be grass, except for the driveway from the main campus gate and a small area by the chapel. It still boggles my mind that they have parking spaces in front the Old Queens.

-Scarlet Jerry

 

[Korbermeister]

One of the things that Montclair did, and I saw the same thing at Michigan state, was build a parking garage that blends with the architecture of the campus. I wish that RU would put a parking deck in the lot behind Murray Hall and use brick that matches the rest of the surrounding buildings. That would allow them to take away ALL of the parking on the Old Queens campus area. Everything should be grass, except for the driveway from the main campus gate and a small area by the chapel. It still boggles my mind that they have parking spaces in front the Old Queens.

-Scarlet Jerry

Do you or anyone else know what that land behind Murray Hall was intended for or what used to be there (if anything) before the lot? I'd rather see that space used for an academic building or dorms

 

[cyrock3]

Location, location, location...

For a NJ kid those have it and MSU does not.

We have heard the ABR line for some of our FB recruits. Guess you could say the same for the regular student....ABNJ

USCe is located in a bad location.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Has this done Montclair favors in rankings and student quality? I really haven't kept track of what the other publics are like. That James Madison, Coastal Carolina, USCe and WVU seem really popular in NJ tells me otherwise....

It's definitely helped MSU's attractiveness to potential students. I believe their total enrollment is now up near 20k.

Their ranking has approved modestly over the last 5-7 years.

Can't speak to quality of students.

Cole is a polarizing figure. Faculty pretty much despise her. She runs a very student focused ship over there. And she has directed her finance team to push the boundaries. If rates really spike up, they are gonna be in deep trouble.

 

[retired711]

It's definitely helped MSU's attractiveness to potential students. I believe their total enrollment is now up near 20k.

Their ranking has approved modestly over the last 5-7 years.

Can't speak to quality of students.

Cole is a polarizing figure. Faculty pretty much despise her. She runs a very student focused ship over there. And she has directed her finance team to push the boundaries. If rates really spike up, they are gonna be in deep trouble.

The fiscal strategy sounds like Rowan's in South Jersey, which has been aggressive in taking on debt.

 

[e5fdny]

Location, location, location...

For a NJ kid those have it and MSU does not.

We have heard the ABR line for some of our FB recruits. Guess you could say the same for the regular student....ABNJ

USCe is located in a bad location.

Columbia itself might be but I bet USCe proper seems much nicer than Rutgers to the NJ visitor. And I will guess that visit takes place in the Spring, which after some NJ Winters might really make it pop.

 

[cyrock3]

Oh no... it's not. USCe proper is not a good looking place at all. I would take Livingston over it.

People who go there, just want to leave NJ badly...


Clemson on the other hand has a very pretty campus.

 

[e5fdny]

Oh no... it's not. USCe proper is not a good looking place at all. I would take Livingston over it.

People who go there, just want to leave NJ badly...


Clemson on the other hand has a very pretty campus.

Then I stand corrected.

Just assumed. And you know what they say about people who assume...LOL

 

[NotInRHouse]

I could understand going to USCe over say, Montclair. It's a more recognized name outside of NJ, and more of an authentic college experience, at least right now.

It's the ones that go to Drexel or UDel over RU that really I can't figure out.

 

[e5fdny]

I could understand going to USCe over say, Montclair. It's a more recognized name outside of NJ, and more of an authentic college experience, at least right now.

It's the ones that go to Drexel or UDel over RU that really I can't figure out.

I already gave you the reason for there. ;)

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Our football recruits are always talking about how beautiful the campus is. I have been to quite a lot of schools ,and,while it isn't West Point,Pepperdine,UCF,etc., I would say it is above average. As for Montclair State, and I can say this because my sister went there, I can not imagine too many people deciding to go to Montclair over Rutgers. I don't think there are many people outside of the state who have heard of the school.

 

[retired711]

It's definitely helped MSU's attractiveness to potential students. I believe their total enrollment is now up near 20k.

Their ranking has approved modestly over the last 5-7 years.

Can't speak to quality of students.

Cole is a polarizing figure. Faculty pretty much despise her. She runs a very student focused ship over there. And she has directed her finance team to push the boundaries. If rates really spike up, they are gonna be in deep trouble.

Susan Cole was a high administrator at Rutgers in the 1980s and early 1990s. She was known as being tough then. Her reputation was good enough to get her a college presidency in Minnesota, and now she is at Montclair state. My guess is that she wanted to be president here after Edward Bloustein's sudden death in 1989, and became available for offers after that.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Maybe she is plotting to come here once Barchi leaves. I would still rather see someone from a p5 school though. The NJ media really does not care about the other NJ schools, even though there has been a lot of shadiness at some of them. I would rather see someone from outside NJ come in.

 

[Jim_from_RU]

Our football recruits are always talking about how beautiful the campus is. I have been to quite a lot of schools ,and,while it isn't West Point,Pepperdine,UCF,etc., I would say it is above average. As for Montclair State, and I can say this because my sister went there, I can not imagine too many people deciding to go to Montclair over Rutgers. I don't think there are many people outside of the state who have heard of the school.

I know plenty of people who transferred from Rutgers to William Paterson because of not liking RU's massive size. I'm sure the same is true for Montclair State in relation to Rutgers.

 

[retired711]

Maybe she is plotting to come here once Barchi leaves. I would still rather see someone from a p5 school though. The NJ media really does not care about the other NJ schools, even though there has been a lot of shadiness at some of them. I would rather see someone from outside NJ come in.

I think that as someone who has been competing with Rutgers in-state for nearly 20 years -- that's how long she's been president of Montclair State -- she would not be well-positioned to try to succeed Barchi. I have no idea who we would get. I like the idea of a P5 person, too, because he or she would at least know something about how a university should be run. But he or she would run away in panic upon realizing how complex and unwieldy Rutgers is even as compared to other major universities.

 

[Scarlet Jerry]

Do you or anyone else know what that land behind Murray Hall was intended for or what used to be there (if anything) before the lot? I'd rather see that space used for an academic building or dorms

Visionary English Dept Chair wanted to build a Center for New Humanities on the spot (I believe). Check out this video from nine years ago. I pasted the link to the part that discusses the building, but it's worth watching from the beginning.



-Scarlet Jerry

 

[sct1111]

Rutgers really should push their English Department to be a top 5-10 program. Besides the Philosophy department, English and History seem to be the best departments. They should be pushed to be elite and s signature for the university

Also, I love Rutgers but it's just not a beautiful campus. Especially compared to the rest of the Big Ten schools. Parts are very nice. Queens campus and parts of Voorhees Mall are very nice. But then you have your eye sores like Scott Hall. I just think so much more could be done to beautify the campus. An example of a huge blunder was the Art Library extension they put on Voorhees Hall and it's filled in windows. It looks awful. NJ Hall also needs to be renovated.

I love the 2030 plan though, especially the plans for College Ave and Busch.

 

[Scarlet Pride]

Maybe she is plotting to come here once Barchi leaves. I would still rather see someone from a p5 school though. The NJ media really does not care about the other NJ schools, even though there has been a lot of shadiness at some of them. I would rather see someone from outside NJ come in.

She doesn't have a chance at Rutgers. She desperately wanted to be Rutgers president years ago and even leaked her own name but wasn't really considered. She's been bitter over that ever since and hates any comparison to Rutgers if it doesn't paint MSU in a good light.

She has definitely put MSU in a tough financial spot and really done a poor job with their fundraising/foundation operations. The school has built a lot of buildings and grown enrollment but she's gone for headlines, image, and enrollments without really investing in academics and programming.

 

[e5fdny]

I know they all started as teacher colleges but it is nice to see TCNJ and Rowan branch out with different Engineering majors.

Don't see it yet at Montclair though.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

At least in the areas I spend time in, it seems to be just about tied between Rutgers and The College of New Jersey,followed by Rowan,in interest among the local kids.

 

[CERU00]

I drove my son over to Montclair State last night so he could watch a hockey game at their arena. I was surprised to see how much the school has changed over the past 20 years. It is a very pretty campus. I believe they only had a few thousand students in 1990, and now they apparently have about 20k....dorms all over the place. The thing I liked most was the new construction. Everything (or at least everything I passed on my short drive) follows the same architectural theme.

This brings me to Rutgers.... I don't mean to offend those who like modern architecture, but I wish that Rutgers could have made a pledge to build all buildings with certain themes and designs in mind, carrying over the general style from the original buildings on College Avenue. BC recently went back and corrected their mistakes of the past by making sure all/most buildings fit their theme. The campus looks light years better than it did in the 90s when BC had a few 1950/1960s looking eye sores.

I know a lot of people like the business building on Livingston, but how long until that no longer looks so shiny and "modern"? I'd say 10 years and people will be saying," What were they thinking? "

I think it comes down to every architect wanting to do something new and novel. They must get bored copying an older style. Unless the man holding the money has firm plans to maintain architectural uniformity, it just won't happen.

 

[RUnTeX]

Growing up barely 5 minutes from there, it wasn't that impressive of a campus in the 80s. Even attended a few classes there in the 8th grade as part of a gifted and talented program on Saturdays (hated missing some of my little league games for that but wasn't a battle I was going to win with my parents). At that time, it was a pretty blah campus with what appeared to be mostly hodge podge buildings.

They had that Spanish/Meditteranean themed building toward the front of their campus, which they must have then used as a basis for much of the expansion in the past decade or more. When I'd be in the area visiting my parents, I noticed that whatever new building, dorm, parking garage, etc. went up it was conformed to that style, which I thought was admirable at the time since compared to Rutgers at least it seemed like someone was paying attention and wanting to make a cohesive appearance.

I can see how after awhile, though, that might turn off some folks since everything starts to look too uniform and not much variety. So for them, it's like the pendulum has swung the other way if everything looks the same and therefore blah.

 

[rutgers0423]

I know I'm in the minority here but I'm a Rutgers student and I honestly think that campus is beautiful at RU, just my opinion. Also, I don't see Msu as a threat. The biggest instate rival Rutgers has is TCNJ. I know many people from high school who picked TCNJ over Rutgers and my graduating class had more kids going there than RU despite Rutgers' size.

 

[RUnTeX]

my graduating class had more kids going there than RU despite Rutgers' size.

Interesting, as you often hear a popular refrain that high schoolers don't want to go to college with some of the same folks from their HS and that's why some avoid Rutgers. I would think it would be more magnified at a school like CNJ, being smaller in terms of physical campus size (and layout) and a much smaller student population/enrollment. It would difficult to not bump into them, whereas at Rutgers they are likely to never see them.

 

[Scarlet16E]

I can see how after awhile, though, that might turn off some folks since everything starts to look too uniform and not much variety. So for them, it's like the pendulum has swung the other way if everything looks the same and therefore blah.

Agree 100%
Many college campuses have this problem IMO.
I prefer some variety. Princeton's campus has a mix of styles and eras and does it quite well.

I think everyone here would agree that the Old Queens campus block is very nice. Well, while they are all pretty old, the 6 structures on that block are all different architectural styles.

I like the idea of different general architectural theme on each of the NB/Piscataway campuses, but exceptions here and there are a good thing. That said, the planned quad where Brower / Records are is an absolute must.

 

[retired711]

Interesting, as you often hear a popular refrain that high schoolers don't want to go to college with some of the same folks from their HS and that's why some avoid Rutgers. I would think it would be more magnified at a school like CNJ, being smaller in terms of physical campus size (and layout) and a much smaller student population/enrollment. It would difficult to not bump into them, whereas at Rutgers they are likely to never see them.

OTOH, I think TCNJ's small size helps it attract students who find RU's size scary. There are always students who fear a megaversity.

 

[rutgers0423]

OTOH, I think TCNJ's small size helps it attract students who find RU's size scary. There are always students who fear a megaversity.

I agree, Rutgers is not for everyone.

 

[jersey07080]

One additional thought is that the new york red bulls 2(minor league side) just entered a partnership with MSU to play all home game there. In return nyrb built a new 5k stadium on campus for soccer. Would have been a pretty good partnership for RU to explore given the trending money of MLS right now.

 

[RUnTeX]

OTOH, I think TCNJ's small size helps it attract students who find RU's size scary. There are always students who fear a megaversity.

Don't disgree, of course. Small/medium college versus large university. Folks make their choice based on their preference. Maybe some would've opted for another small school instead of CNJ (with Rutgers not in the equation) if they felt too many of their HS classmates were going to be at CNJ.

 

[retired711]

Don't disgree, of course. Small/medium college versus large university. Folks make their choice based on their preference. Maybe some would've opted for another small school instead of CNJ (with Rutgers not in the equation) if they felt too many of their HS classmates were going to be at CNJ.

I wonder if Rowan draws students from north Jersey who don't want a big college, can't afford a private college, and don't want to attend college along with their high school classmates. I wonder if Rowan has that kind of name recognition in the north.

 

[retired711]

Should add that it would make sense for RU to provide a small college experience the way the University of California does with the Santa Cruz campus. There are faculty as well as students who would like such an atmosphere. We at RU-Camden draw some undergraduate students who want a relatively small experience, but we're limited by being in Camden -- although to my surprise, the undergraduate college has more women than men.