NCAA Wrestling Seeds:

[Abro1975]

Now that, I 100% vehemently disagree with. If we cut that one guy then why not cut the 32? after all a 32 has never won nationals right? Well if a 32 has never won nationals and that's the criteria for cutting him, then let's cut 31, because the 31 has never won nationals. Don't start cutting opportunities for wrestlers to wrestle at Nationals.

Their rationale on not having #33 wrestler was simply to cut down that one extra round that nobody wants to see. Also the #1 opponent is then also pre populated in the bracket, instead of having a whole other pigtail bracket, and a blank for a week leading up to the tournament.
You should listen to their podcast, one of the best ones of the season.
Another interesting point is how the assistant coaches on the bench seem to be the designated Ref arguers (sp?)that their job is to constantly be on the refs backs.

 

[LETSGORU91]

The current system offers more opportunities for more guys to compete on the biggest stage of their lives, a dream many of them have had for years. No one will ever convince me that taking that opportunity away is a good thing. Never.

I get it and I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just explaining the rationale for not having a +1 (or more) match. I'm thinking the majority aren't as devoted to the idea as you (think the play in games for NCAA basketball and the little attention they garner). If most thought it was feasible and/or desirable, there could/should/would be many more than just a +1 match.

 

[KidDagger]

If Desanto’s coaching staff was smart.. they woulsa FFT out of big10 semis and not wrestle Suriano and Lizak... probably would have been rewarded with 3 seed at nationals by the seeding committee

 

[Abro1975]

If Desanto’s coaching staff was smart.. they woulsa FFT out of big10 semis and not wrestle Suriano and Lizak... probably would have been rewarded with 3 seed at nationals by the seeding committee

Lee should have forfeited against Seb. Rivera both times, and Picc too, he'd be the 1 or 2 seed.

 

[RUTrack94]

Now that, I 100% vehemently disagree with. If we cut that one guy then why not cut the 32? after all a 32 has never won nationals right? Well if a 32 has never won nationals and that's the criteria for cutting him, then let's cut 31, because the 31 has never won nationals. Don't start cutting opportunities for wrestlers to wrestle at Nationals.

What is the lowest seed to ever AA?
Or a title?

 

[KidDagger]

Lee should have forfeited against Seb. Rivera both times, and Picc too, he'd be the 1 or 2 seed.

Lee FF the first time... ur right, he shoulda just FF the second time too and vs picc too... there’s really no upside being a top seed and facing elite competition .. u only risk a loss might as well just duck them and protect ur seed.... that’s y I really hope Sea Bass wins this year.. went out to face everyone and even bumped up to face Micic when he was the top dog and seemingly nothing to gain.. I have a feeling we will be seeing even More FF next year if the seeding committee doesn’t change

 

[KidDagger]

What is the lowest seed to ever AA?
Or a title?

There’s always surprise AA (unseeded wrestlers). Now they seed every wrestler now though... I’m sure there’s been a unseeded champ somewhere before..

 

[Ban Basketball]

What is the lowest seed to ever AA?
Or a title?

There have been ENDLESS unseeded wrestlers who became AA's. However, the only national champ who was unseeded, including a losing record, was Mark Branch at OK State in 1994. Strangely enough, the runner-up was also unseeded that year.

The following year, Branch had that brutal knee injury in the finals. Hard one to watch.

https://www.flowrestling.org/video/5092666-mark-branch-in-94

 

[Abro1975]

Last year they only seeded to 16, yet our unseeded Scott DelVecchio grabbed an AA medal by beating you know who.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Going back to the forfeits/defaults, I've been a critic since the first time that we really got slapped in the face with it when Dustin Schlatter did it at MN, and then Travis Shufelt, from Nebraska, did it the next year at the Big 12's, after having wrestled fewer than five matches all year. He was granted a spot, but had to default out of the Big Dance, thus wasting a spot for someone else.

This whole "they earned the spots" allocation process sucks and should have never happened.

So, my solution? I think coaches and/or teams should start making a mockery of it and have all of their wrestlers, when you're sure that they will get a spot into the Big Dance, by just defaulting their TEAMS (or most of them) through the conference tournaments. THEN we'd reconsider this goofy notion that they "earned the spot."

 

[Ban Basketball]

Last year they only seeded to 16, yet our unseeded Scott DelVecchio grabbed an AA medal by beating you know who.

Refresh my memory.

 

[Abro1975]

Refresh my memory.

Austin DeSanto, when DeSanto had a 3rd period melt down. A wild 3rd period.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Austin DeSanto, when DeSanto had a 3rd period melt down. A wild 3rd period.

Ah, yes. I remember now.

 

[Road Crew STU]

Another weird seed (and this will make no difference in outcome in bracket)

Lipari #32
Limmex #30


Lipari beat Limmex 2 times....I would think he would be ahead of him.
This may be better for Rutgers team standings because Lipari gets a wrestle pigatil to earn team points.

No team points for winning a pigtail I think.

But you can earn bonus points.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

What is the lowest seed to ever AA?
Or a title?

Unseeded Mark Branch in 1994.

More recently Cody Brewer from the 13 seed. MyMar was the 11 his freshman year, when he beat Bo.

 

[Abro1975]

 

[RUTrack94]

Thanks for the history lessons!

 

[LDandy]

[

How would losing to the number one guy affect his seed? The next guys below him all have at least three losses, all to lesser opponents.

It wouldn't. People are expressing what they want to happen as justification for what they think should happen. In no world would an undefeated #2 wrestler be penalized for losing to an undefeated #1 wrestler when there is not an equally credentialed #3 or 4 waiting in the wings to move up should a loss occur.

On paper Rasheed had everything to gain and nothing to lose by facing Martin. That said the opportunity to win The B1G did not outweigh the risk of further injury two weeks before nationals. That is always the goal.

 

[FoxRU]

What are everyone’s thoughts on whether JVB should have wrestled Hayes for 7-8 after beating him early in the tournament? He already qualified and had nothing really to gain there. I’m not sure it made sense to wrestle him again for seeding purposes. I understand both sides here just curious on the opinions of others.

 

[Abro1975]

What are everyone’s thoughts on whether JVB should have wrestled Hayes for 7-8 after beating him early in the tournament? He already qualified and had nothing really to gain there. I’m not sure it made sense to wrestle him again for seeding purposes. I understand both sides here just curious on the opinions of others.

Unless something changes with the medical forfeits , you will see it more and more and more in seasons to come, hurting the sport even more. The regular season is pretty insignificant as it is without team champions being crowned , now the Conference Tournament season is being marginalized and hurt as well.
But I don't think the NCAA governing body cares all that much or is bright enough to change anything anyway, which is why the sport of College Wrestling is so insignificant compared to the other NCAA sports, it's pretty much a niche sport that will always be relegated to Pay Per View.

 

[ScarletGrapfan]

Unless something changes with the medical forfeits , you will see it more and more and more in seasons to come, hurting the sport even more. The regular season is pretty insignificant as it is without team champions being crowned , now the Conference Tournament season is being marginalized and hurt as well.
But I don't think the NCAA governing body cares all that much or is bright enough to change anything anyway, which is why the sport of College Wrestling is so insignificant compared to the other NCAA sports, it's pretty much a niche sport that will always be relegated to Pay Per View.

Agree Abro, the NCAA will not get involved, it will have to come down to the coaches and the Wrestling rules committee. I have seen tweets from some Coaches that said we should not force "injured" kids to wrestle. Have seen some Coaches say, it should count as a loss in the Conference tournaments.
Here is my take if it does not get addressed....more and more will MFF out of the tournament(Anthony could have done it). And guess what it will make the conference tournament meaningless. Look at the Big tourn this year, there were a ton of kids who "could" have MFF out of the tournament to protect the seed. Is that what wrestling wants?
I get it, Pittsburgh is the big dance, need to be healthy, but should get punished for not wrestling.

 

[Ban Basketball]

now the Conference Tournament season is being marginalized and hurt as well.

Just to begin my rant, this is personal for me, as I was a lone voice critic of this system when Schlatter first did. In fact, it was a LARGE part of the reason as to how my words became so dangerous for folks to read on wrestling forums.

Dovetailing off of Abro's point, and continuing my series of gripes about the allocation system, I suspected when Schlatter first did this several years ago, and then Travis Shufelt followed suit the next year, that this could open the door to many more people doing it in the future. Well, guess what?

As a lone voice on my criticism of this system for years, I kept asking, why do we even have the conference tournaments anyway, if wrestlers have already "earned" their spots into the Big Dance? Save the team expenses, the possible injuries, and place the wrestlers who've "earned" their spots into the Big Dance at season's end. Then, everyone gets in who the powers that be think should be in, no one gets injured, and we don't have to feel frustrated with how a seemingly good idea has become an embarrassing monster.

Again, I'd like to see coaches begin making a mockery of it by defaulting many of their "guaranteed" wrestlers" out of the conference tournaments, just to show that another change is needed.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Actually, here's a trivia question that I used to remind everyone of years ago. Which specific case of a wrestler who didn't qualify one year under the old system directly led to this current system that we have now? In fact, the change was made the VERY NEXT season, because it was seen as such a "travesty" that this person didn't qualify out of the conference tournament?

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Unless something changes with the medical forfeits , you will see it more and more and more in seasons to come, hurting the sport even more. The regular season is pretty insignificant as it is without team champions being crowned , now the Conference Tournament season is being marginalized and hurt as well.
But I don't think the NCAA governing body cares all that much or is bright enough to change anything anyway, which is why the sport of College Wrestling is so insignificant compared to the other NCAA sports, it's pretty much a niche sport that will always be relegated to Pay Per View.

I guess the increase in regular season attendance over the last few years is because of the regular season being insignificant?

 

[Abro1975]

I guess the increase in regular season attendance over the last few years is because of the regular season being insignificant?

Compared to W Basketball not to mention M BB, Football, probably 1 or 2 other sports, even with the slight increase , Wrestling attendance is pathetic.

Only 5 schools average over 5, 000 per match. Heck Woman's softball is all over ESPN 2 and ESPNU, very few wrestling matches ever get on those platforms. You know why, don't you?

PS- I don't blame your coach Sanderson for holding out Rasheed, he didn't want Martin to get a look at Rasheed. And he knew that Rasheed wouldn't drop below a 2 seed. He doesn't care much about the Big10 Tourney, it's meaningless, just look at him letting OSU win the past 3 Big10s. But like RUGrapplingfan above said, until the bigger name coaches as a group take interest in the health and growth of the sport, it will languish as a small niche sport on pay per view, with some cult fans who are willing to pay for the conference video options or FloSports.

Not so sure why you are so defensive about Sanderson's moves, it was smart. But every objective sites like Flo and most objective fans, not like your buddies over on the Penn St site, know the growth of MFFs as a strategy is very bad for the regular season and Conference tournaments.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Compared to W Basketball not to mention M BB, Football, Softball in the SEC , Pac 12, Big12, probably 1 or 2 other sports, even with the slight increase , Wrestling attendance is pathetic.

Only 5 schools average over 5, 000 per match. Heck Woman's softball is all over ESPN 2 and ESPNU, very few wrestling matches ever get on those platforms. You know why, don't you?

Yeah, because it is a niche sport.

And, it always will be compared to those sports. That has nothing to do with the regular season duals not being significant. Everyone keeps saying the dual season not being important is killing the sport, but attendance has been growing at the same time people are saying this.

 

[Abro1975]

Yeah, because it is a niche sport.

And, it always will be compared to those sports. That has nothing to do with the regular season duals not being significant. Everyone keeps saying the dual season not being important is killing the sport, but attendance has been growing at the same time people are saying this.

How much has attendance been growing? A 100 per D1 school ? more? Anything really significant? Let's see your proof. Goggle is your friend.

 

[MS-RU]

Yeah, because it is a niche sport.

And, it always will be compared to those sports. That has nothing to do with the regular season duals not being significant. Everyone keeps saying the dual season not being important is killing the sport, but attendance has been growing at the same time people are saying this.

Except that attendance won't continue to rise if top wrestlers continue ducking top opponents in the regular season and conference tournaments. That's an absolute fact.

 

[Ban Basketball]

How much has attendance been growing? A 100 per D1 school ? more? Anything really significant? Let's see your proof. Goggle is your friend.

And, let's face it: attendance and interest ebbs and flows with the success of individual programs.

At Northern Iowa, we were down to about 100 fans for each dual during our leanest years about ten years ago. Today, we either sell out or come close to selling out every dual that we wrestle, (even though, curiously enough, there's been no measurable improvement in the team's outcomes since those lean years).

This picture says it all. Your's truly can be clearly seen in the seats during the lean years.

 

[jerzey devil]

What are everyone’s thoughts on whether JVB should have wrestled Hayes for 7-8 after beating him early in the tournament? He already qualified and had nothing really to gain there. I’m not sure it made sense to wrestle him again for seeding purposes. I understand both sides here just curious on the opinions of others.

Because he lost to him at CKLV.... Rubber match would've helped him with a win there...

 

[pawrestlersintn]

How much has attendance been growing? A 100 per D1 school ? more? Anything really significant? Let's see your proof. Goggle is your friend.

Yes, it is.
https://news.theopenmat.com/college...-wrestling-dual-attendance-15-year-high/62725

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Except that attendance won't continue to rise if top wrestlers continue ducking top opponents in the regular season and conference tournaments. That's an absolute fact.

Because when a random internet poster says something is an absolute fact, it's automatically true.

 

[Abro1975]

Yes, it is.
https://news.theopenmat.com/college...-wrestling-dual-attendance-15-year-high/62725

That article is 2 years old, and the growth is insignificant when looking where the base line is. The College Wrestling World should thank Scott Goodale for being a big part of that growth.
And even a relatively low, slow growth, doesn't mitigate the trend in Med Forfeiting for strategic purposes which minimalizes the regular and Tournament seasons. It simply isn't a good way to run a business and actually try grow the sport more than the slow rate it already might be experiencing. Cael Sanderson with spotting what regular season matches Rasheed wrestled in the regular season and then again in the Tournament, is a prime example helping his wrestler a little strategically but hurting the sport overall.
A better system is needed , there are many ideas floating around this week, the guys on Inside Trip and Flowrestling podcast were spitballing some ideas. But ultimately it will be up to the big program coaches and their ADs to figure it.

I think it may only be the Penn St , and possibly the Michigan , fans who don't think the upward trend in Med Forfeits, no matter the reason, is not a problem for the sport.

 

[koleszar]

This picture says it all. Your's truly can be clearly seen in the seats during the lean years.

View embedded media

Is that the gym Hoosiers was filmed in? Looks just like the Hickory Huskers gym complete with 1950's décor. If you look real closely, I think I see Norman Dale sitting to your right.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Is that the gym Hoosiers was filmed in? Looks just like the Hickory Huskers gym complete with 1950's décor. If you look real closely, I think I see Norman Dale sitting to your right.

Nope, but it is where the 1950 NCAA tournament was held, to which UNI actually won. Holds a whopping 2,100 too.

Aside from the wrestling room, there have been virtually zero updates to the place since it opened in 1925. The gym is entirely original.

 

[Ban Basketball]

And, yes, it's by choice that we wrestle in the West Gym. We wrestled one or two years in the new facility below, but it didn't have the same feel, nor the home court advantage that the West gym does.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

That article is 2 years old, and the growth is insignificant when looking where the base line is. The College Wrestling World should thank Scott Goodale for being a big part of that growth.
And even a relatively low, slow growth, doesn't mitigate the trend in Med Forfeiting for strategic purposes which minimalizes the regular and Tournament seasons. It simply isn't a good way to run a business and actually try grow the sport more than the slow rate it already might be experiencing. Cael Sanderson with spotting what regular season matches Rasheed wrestled in the regular season and then again in the Tournament, is a prime example helping his wrestler a little strategically but hurting the sport overall.
A better system is needed , there are many ideas floating around this week, the guys on Inside Trip and Flowrestling podcast were spitballing some ideas. But ultimately it will be up to the big program coaches and their ADs to figure it.

I think it may only be the Penn St , and possibly the Michigan , fans who don't think the upward trend in Med Forfeits, no matter the reason, is not a problem for the sport.

So, where is your newer data that refutes my 2 year old data? Google is your friend.

 

[R U Crazy]

I can't wait until tourney starts, I want to argue about results and not other BS

 

[Abro1975]

So, where is your newer data that refutes my 2 year old data? Google is your friend.

You never made a cogent point. In this thread about how the Seeds are screwed up because of Med forfeits like Sanderson did with Rasheed for strategic reason, a very small growth in physical butts in seats for a tiny niche sport, does NOT mitigate the point that increasing amounts of Med Forfeits in regular season matches and now conference tournaments is not fair to the guys wrestling, bad for the fans, and doesn't help the sport.

The Flo guys had a good idea, when you med forfeit out of a conference tournament, you cannot be seeded in the Nationals better than the place where you forfeited of.

Now why don't you go back to the Ped St board where you can all agree the entire wrestling community is wrong, and Ped St is right.

 

[rpiseman]

There have been ENDLESS unseeded wrestlers who became AA's. However, the only national champ who was unseeded, including a losing record, was Mark Branch at OK State in 1994. Strangely enough, the runner-up was also unseeded that year.

The following year, Branch had that brutal knee injury in the finals. Hard one to watch.

https://www.flowrestling.org/video/5092666-mark-branch-in-94

Pete Gonzalez and Karl Monaco were D-3 national champs at Montclair State. I. Those days you could enter the D-1 NCAAs, they both All-Americaned with Pete taking 7th and Karl taking 3rd. Talk about unseeded.