NET Update
- Thread starter biazza38
- Start date
That's because winning isn't enough for NET, you need to outperform your expected efficiency against your given opponent. So against bad teams, like Penn State in your case and Georgetown in ours (SHU dropped 2 spots after only winning by 4), close wins hurt rather than help (or at best do nothing significant). When you win by 35 on a neutral floor though, the NET's usually going to like that, even against a bad team.
At this point in the season they should drop the style points. Efficiency and margin shouldn’t matter anymore. Win and you get rewarded.
Exactly, that’s why it’s comical. It values a blowout win over Georgia more than it does a road win at Indiana and a home win against PSU. I understand that it measures efficiency, but I’m pretty sure we dropped despite winning two conference games. One of which was on the road. That’s a major major flaw
It also helps playing a bottom feeder such a Georgia late in the season. They’ve quit. Of course a team is going to blow them out. It’s a little different than when you play them in early January when their season isn’t over. THATS why efficiency this late in the year is so damn comical.
So, if I’m on the committee, I would hope to be smart enough to NOT put a lot of weight in this metric.
Seems to me that it’s a calculation metric designed by nerd’s and the fact that they want teams to run up numbers to suit their metric. I don’t like the fact that, as you put it, “ winning isn’t enough for the net”,
Enough said…
Yep, it’s flawed in that it wants teams to do what isn’t historically done in basketball. You shouldn’t put your walkons in at the end, you should leave your starters in during blowouts and shoot more 3s. Don’t dribble the ball out the last possession, go inside and get an easy layup. Don’t foul at the end of a game down 6 and end up losing by 9-10. All dumb
No offense but SHU beating Georgetown by 4 and only dropping 2 spots is a complete joke lol.
The NET isn’t brand new for this season and the formula is straightforward. Whenever anyone who understood the formula commented before this or prior seasons that our pathetic OOC schedule could some day/year come back to haunt us they were shouted down.
Win Friday and we should be in. Lose and we could be out.
Win Friday and we should be in. Lose and we could be out.
Neutral floor plays a part in it. Not defending it. Probably comparable to you beating PSU at home in a squeaker.
Was it a joke when you beat Penn State by 1 on Sunday and didn't drop at all? Exact same thing - a Q3 win that was a lot closer than it should have been. The other thing we don't know - since they only publish the rankings without a coefficient, is how close the teams around us are. Maybe it hurt our unknown NET rating a lot but had a big enough gap that it didn't effect the ranking much.
Which is just a crazy statement.... beating a ~200 NET team (6-24, 0-19) on a neutral floor is comparable to beating a ~100 NET team (12-16, 7-12) on a home floor.
It might be comparable in NET, but it's not really comparable in reality.
Well I also think it’s a joke that Georgetown had a NET of 198 (at 6-24; 0-19 in conference).
So that’s why SHUs ranking only dropped 2.
And if we want to be real MSG isn’t a neutral floor for SHU but obviously it can’t take that into account.
We did drop 1, fwiw
PSU and Georgetown are in no way comparable opponents, though.
I’m
Posters here who are angry don’t want to understand that a team’s NET score can go higher but see it’s ranking move down - or vice-versa - because other teams’ scores change, too.
It was designed to level the playing field for mid majors who get very few opportunities for Q1 wins - effectively they could overcome that by dominating the weaker competition. The problem is that now you get power conference teams gaming it by scheduling disastrous OOC schedules and racking up 40+ point blowouts over terrible teams to boost their own efficiency numbers. And as pointed out, that also doesn't take into account bad power conference teams like Georgia laying down and giving their opponents a boost.
I see you listed at 76 both Sunday and Monday on the NCAA stat site, but okay. And maybe not both on a neutral court, but you were at home, which matters and you'll never convince me Penn State is anywhere near a good team.
Just comparing PSU/G'Town on who they've beaten going into yesterday:
Georgetown's wins:
86 Syracuse
125 Longwood
224 UMBC
234 Siena
240 Howard
336 American
PSU's wins:
15 Iowa
38 MSU
43 Indiana
78 Rutgers
83 Northwestern
83 @Northwestern
112 Minnesota
134 Wagner
191 Cornell
248 Youngstown St
253 (N) Oregon St
321 St Francis BK
Georgetown's wins:
86 Syracuse
125 Longwood
224 UMBC
234 Siena
240 Howard
336 American
PSU's wins:
15 Iowa
38 MSU
43 Indiana
78 Rutgers
83 Northwestern
83 @Northwestern
112 Minnesota
134 Wagner
191 Cornell
248 Youngstown St
253 (N) Oregon St
321 St Francis BK
PSU isn't a great team, and we let a 15-point lead slip away in the final minutes after leading the whole game. PSU would rock Georgetown, though, and it's not really close. Georgetown is one of the worst high major teams.... ahead of just Pittsburgh, Oregon St, and Georgia.
Efficiency should never matter in an evaluative metric. Efficiency should always be secondary in a predictive metric.
Georgetown may not beat Penn State, but it would be a lot closer thank you think. They were competitive in a lot of games, they just couldn't close. That's actually why their NET seems a bit high for their record - they've played us, Villanova, UConn, Providence, and Marquette all within single digits.
Wake Forest loses a game to an awful BC team... drops 5 spots.
RU sits completely idle, doesn't play... drops 2 spots.
This is so broken it's not funny.
RU sits completely idle, doesn't play... drops 2 spots.
This is so broken it's not funny.
And PSU played Purdue, @OSU, @Wisconsin, Michigan, @Maryland, @Illinois, and @Rutgers in single digits - many of them single possession.
It's really hard to go 0-fer in a major conference. Georgetown was the only team to manage it this year. Last year Iowa State did it, and no one hit that mark the year before.
It's because teams close behind you won and moved up. You don't exist in a vaccume. Beat Iowa and you'll move up while the teams you jump complain about dropping while idle.
Not close. We were up 15 and let them back in. You were losing all game until the end . Georgetown has 0 wins in Big East. Penn State has 7 wins in Big 10 and competitive in almost all their losses. Not an even comparison. But NET really doesn’t measure much except efficiency and doesn’t value close wins down the stretch or in the conference tourneys where the proper motto is survive and advance. You went down 2 and you won. We went down 2 and didn’t play. That should tell you everything you need to know about how much the NET should be relied upon on picking the best at large teams.
After watching a season of basketball penn state is actually a pretty good and hard playing team. Not sure why they didn’t win more this year. They’d beat a lot of teams outside of the big 10 no excuse though for blowing out 15 point lead.
I'm not claiming Georgetown's good - or would even win, I'm just suggesting that if two teams who mostly play close games met on the court, they'd probably play a pretty close game. I do think Georgetown is plenty of capable of beating Minnesota and Nebraska though.
Capable is one thing but actually doing it is another. Clearly , they should have beat you yesterday and were capable of it but guess what , they do not know how to win. They lost them all. They played Butler , DePaul and the bottom of your conference and couldn’t win. Yes they have some talent but so does Nebraska and Minnesota but they found ways to lose a lot of games even though they were competitive in some.
You missed the whole point. My post was about metrics. You dropped as well because it was a Q3 win for you. In the end neither of us were sufficiently efficient in victory. Don’t be so defensive.
Yesterday:
69 Fresno St (W by 2 over 298 San Jose St)
70 Belmont (idle)
71 Kansas State (L by 6 to 78 WVU)
72 St. John's (W by 19 over 101 DePaul)
73 Oregon (W by 14 over 252 Oregon St)
74 Towson (idle)
75 Colorado (idle)
76 Rutgers (idle)
77 UVA (W by 1 over 137 Louisville)
78 WVU (W by 6 over 71 KState)
79 Vandy (W by 15 over 216 Georgia)
80 Furman (idle)
81 Wichita St (idle)
82 Northwestern (W by 2 over 140 Nebraska)
83 Drake (idle)
Today:
67 St. John's
70 Belmont
71 Vandy
72 Oregon
73 Towson
74 Colorado
75 Fresno St
76 WVU
77 Kansas St
78 Rutgers
79 UVA
80 Furman
81 Wichita St
82 Drake
83 Northwestern
Vandy won by 15 over the 2nd worst team in a major conference.... and they leapt 8 spots, ahead of Oregon who won by 14 over the worst team in a major conference and moved up just 1 spot.
NET be crazy.
It’s metrics. Basically the NET treated them the same for each of us. We both won and dropped in the NET. Because you beat PSU at home and we beat GU on neutral I’m less than efficient fashion we both were dinged.
This whole thread is about the NET. We all agree it’s arbitrary. Doesn’t take every post as a slight.
Yeah - it's comparable in NET, but that just shows how the NET is clearly divorced from reality.
SHU should have dropped 15 spots for that crap show last night. I have a SH degree, so not hating, just stating.
its basically saying that winning games is not good enough, you need to win by the point spread
very unfortunate
Fresno went to overtime vs San Jose State who is wretched and dropped 6 points in the win.
very unfortunate
Fresno went to overtime vs San Jose State who is wretched and dropped 6 points in the win.
Dude - just stop. That’s not it. Georgetown is living proof that the flaws with RPI were not addressed properly by the new system. It’s not because of point margin. The old MOV- free RPI system has Georgetown at 239 which is still pretty darn good for a 6 win team.
Lafayette stinks. There’s no getting around that. But a blind resume comparison would show that it’s comparatively asinine for Georgetown to be 193 while Lafayette is 318. Lafayette has a road win at Rutgers which is better than anything Georgetown has (home vs Cuse and a home win over Longwood - otherwise 4 wins over awful teams for Georgetown and that’s it). Georgetown didn’t win a single game on the road. Meanwhile Lafayette has 4 road wins and 3 more total D1 wins than Georgetown. Again, Georgetown won only 6 games and their resume includes losses to teams like Dartmouth and St Joes.
