NIL, what's the best course of action to remedy this?

[50 yd line RR]

Our alumni have been intentionally cultivated to hate sports. They aren't going to donate, unless it's to the chess club or competitive lesbian rugby.

Wow kind of harsh!
It’s really not rocket science. If students have a good time going to sporting events, basketball, football. They will remember and take a little pride in their school.
It took a long time for us to get to this level.
Personally I don’t even count Rutgers as a big time school until Bob Mulcahy got here.
We didn’t have the resources, or facilities to really compete on the level with our piers.
Not knocking any of the players or coaches that were here before. They had a tremendous effort. It just wasn’t a level playing field.
These kids today will remember.

 

[e5fdny]

Wow kind of harsh!
It’s really not rocket science. If students have a good time going to sporting events, basketball, football. They will remember and take a little pride in their school.
It took a long time for us to get to this level.
Personally I don’t even count Rutgers as a big time school until Bob Mulcahy got here.
We didn’t have the resources, or facilities to really compete on the level with our piers.
Not knocking any of the players or coaches that were here before. They had a tremendous effort. It just wasn’t a level playing field.
These kids today will remember.

It doesn’t have to stop with the students either.

Give all fans a better experience across the board (with the W obviously the most important) and watch what happens.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Wow kind of harsh!

But true!

 

[retired711]

Wow kind of harsh!
It’s really not rocket science. If students have a good time going to sporting events, basketball, football. They will remember and take a little pride in their school.
It took a long time for us to get to this level.
Personally I don’t even count Rutgers as a big time school until Bob Mulcahy got here.
We didn’t have the resources, or facilities to really compete on the level with our piers.
Not knocking any of the players or coaches that were here before. They had a tremendous effort. It just wasn’t a level playing field.
These kids today will remember.

It doesn't stop with having a good time going to sporting events. The more the students think well of their total experience at Rutgers, the more likely they are to donate.

 

[e5fdny]

It doesn't stop with having a good time going to sporting events. The more the students think well of their total experience at Rutgers, the more likely they are to donate.

You’re correct.

But they still have to be told/reminded while here or at least at graduation.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

For what you want there is no remedy no.

College Sports with NIL has become European club soccer. The different conferences are the different leagues (Big ten- English Premier League, SEC- La Liga, ACC- Serie A, Big 12- Bundesliga). The College football playoff has become the equivalent of the Champions League where the top teams from each of these leagues compete in one tournament to determine the best club in all of Europe. The best backed clubs consistently, year in and year out are the ones who qualify for this tournament. Yes you occasionally see the Cinderella make their way in but they never win it. It's always Real Madrid, Chelsea, Man City, Barcelona, Liverpool, etc.. the best backed always win.

This is how major college sports will be for the rest of our lives man. If you want something like what cfb used to be, I'd recommend following Monmouth

It’s not like European club soccer. The players on the team attend the university they are playing for. No matter how much of a farce the academic component is, the athletes are still technically working towards degrees from the school they play for. Most of the fans of a particular team are students and alumni of that school and that’s where the demand comes from for following. In my opinion, college sports would be dead in the water quickly if it ever moved away from this model. The interest just wouldn’t be there.

 

[retired711]

You’re correct.

But they still have to be told/reminded while here or at least at graduation.

The last thing I'd ever want at graduation would be to be told I should donate. That would strike me as a little crass. Instead the school needs to create an atmosphere (free of the notorious RU screw) that makes students want to support their alma mater.

 

[newwavedave1]

Stop allowing amateur players to be paid.

With you 100%.

 

[yessir321]

I agree with you for the most part but I have to say this is the same strawman argument that @Geo_Baker_1 made time and again. Anybody in their right mind would agree that the players should benefit financially from the value they bring, be that the revenue sharing that is now coming, money from advertising or autograph sessions or holding basketball camps in the summer.

What bothers most people's fundamental sense of fairness is that the pay for play aspect that means a great program like Boise St or one with aspirations like ours just cannot possibly hope to compete in this arena. If Ohio State can get everyone who attended a game this season to give just $200 to NIL, they'll raise $20mm relatively easily. We just don't have their fundraising power. Very few programs do. That's the source of most folks' frustration and fear what this means for the future of our program

Adapt or die, hoping it won’t happen will fix nothing.

 

[yessir321]

It’s not like European club soccer. The players on the team attend the university they are playing for. No matter how much of a farce the academic component is, the athletes are still technically working towards degrees from the school they play for. Most of the fans of a particular team are students and alumni of that school and that’s where the demand comes from for following. In my opinion, college sports would be dead in the water quickly if it ever moved away from this model. The interest just wouldn’t be there.

You are sorely mistaken.

 

[NickRU714]

For those trying to compare academic scholarships to athletic = are the schools supporting massive facilities specifically for those academic students? Paying specific teachers $5M+ per year? Are you going to say the classrooms are comparable to the football stadium, weight-room, bubble, etc.? The colleges fund huge sports specific infrastructure to give these athletes a place to compete. If not for the colleges, all of these players would have nowhere to go unless a minor league system is put in place at which points there would be zero education for those individuals. People on this thread act like the schools just rakes in $$$ off the backs of athletes. It’s a joke.

If not for the players, the colleges would have nobody to play in those massive facilities or generate the revenue to build those massive facilities.

Now before someone says "but the individual players don't matter. The colleges could get anyone to play."

I'll remind you this is a website dedicated to evaluating those "replaceable" players to determine the very best.
Tell HC Schiano there is no more recruiting and he just holds open tryouts on campus to any old student to be on the team.
Maybe there is great QB secretly waiting in Expos 101.

 

[NY AGENTMAN]

Unionize players make them part of collective bargaining and put in a salary cap of 20mm a year

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Change will come when the top schools in the P-4 are being hurt by NIL and Transfer Portal.

The system will get so bad that most school will demand change to bring it under control.

Relax, just sit back and it will happen.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

You are sorely mistaken.

Actually - neither of us have any idea and can only guess what the interest would be because it hasn’t happened yet. Americans to this point have not shown any signs of interest in following club sports tied in to corporate sponsorship. It doesn’t matter who sponsors our minor league teams for baseball, G league, arena football, etc. nobody cares. Not the employees who work for the sponsoring companies. Not anybody.

Your assuming that this trend will not apply to colleges because of the legacy interest. In reality it would basically be a college buying a minor league team to sponsor. You couldn’t call that college athletics though and ultimately the students and alum would see this. The long term outcome would lead to a situation where even if interest wanes on initially you would then have all kinds of entities starting farm teams - not just universities (there would be no reason for that restriction). Big banks could buy teams too. So could Apple. Everyone would want a piece of the action and there would be no way to restrict it to universities if there’s no academic connection. Your entitled to your opinion but my view is it would be the beginning of the end. Students need to be interested for big time college sports to maintain relevance. And that will die over time if colleges are merely sponsoring a corporate club team that competes against teams sponsored by other types of corporate entities. As I said - I don’t think Americans care that way. They never have before. They will go back to NFL, NBA and such.

 

[retired711]

Actually - neither of us have any idea and can only guess what the interest would be because it hasn’t happened yet. Americans to this point have not shown any signs of interest in following club sports tied in to corporate sponsorship. It doesn’t matter who sponsors our minor league teams for baseball, G league, arena football, etc. nobody cares. Not the employees who work for the sponsoring companies. Not anybody.

Your assuming that this trend will not apply to colleges because of the legacy interest. In reality it would basically be a college buying a minor league team to sponsor. You couldn’t call that college athletics though and ultimately the students and alum would see this. The long term outcome would lead to a situation where even if interest wanes on initially you would then have all kinds of entities starting farm teams - not just universities (there would be no reason for that restriction). Big banks could buy teams too. So could Apple. Everyone would want a piece of the action and there would be no way to restrict it to universities if there’s academic connection. Your entitled to your opinion but my view is it would be the beginning of the end. Students need to be interested for big time college sports to maintain relevant. And that will die over time if there’s colleges are merely sponsoring a corporate club team that competes against team sponsored by other types of corporate entities. As I said - I don’t think Americans care that way. They never have before. They will go back to NFL, NBA and such.

First, I question your premise that people become interested in college sports only because of their exposure to it in college. If that were true, then the many people in this country who are not college graduates wouldn't care about college sports. I doubt that's true.

But let's assume your premise is true. Then the question becomes whether students would cease caring about college sports because the athletes get paid. (Remember, they would continue to be students just as they are now.) Maybe, but I don't see why. Even now, does anyone believe that college athletes compete just for the glory of the alma mater?

 

[e5fdny]

The last thing I'd ever want at graduation would be to be told I should donate. That would strike me as a little crass. Instead the school needs to create an atmosphere (free of the notorious RU screw) that makes students want to support their alma mater.

It's all about the wording and how its presented. A reminder is not a bad thing. Face to face is better than the occasional 5x7 mailer.

When one of my niece's got her master's the last speaker was from alumni relations/engagement. Her message was: "You learned here, We expect you go out earn and then return here." And by "return" she wasn't talking about coming back for Homecoming and picking up a sweatshirt from the bookstore.

 

[e5fdny]

First, I question your premise that people become interested in college sports only because of their exposure to it in college. If that were true, then the many people in this country who are not college graduates wouldn't care about college sports. I doubt that's true.

But let's assume your premise is true. Then the question becomes whether students would cease caring about college sports because the athletes get paid. (Remember, they would continue to be students just as they are now.) Maybe, but I don't see why. Even now, does anyone believe that college athletes compete just for the glory of the alma mater?

Steve Politi:

"You'll never be a NY Giant, but you'll always be a Scarlet Knight."

There is a connection. I can remember being in class with some athletes, guys and gals, and seeing them on the field/court later. That was pretty cool. Being paid wouldn't matter that much to me as a student, but if they were just "employees", probably.

Elsewhere, obviously not here so much, the big flagship in your state is considered yours too not just for the student so there is connection at that level too. Same for a smaller or local school where you live...an attachment can be made as well.

 

[retired711]

Steve Politi:

"You'll never be a NY Giant, but you'll always be a Scarlet Knight."

There is a connection. I can remember being in class with some athletes, guys and gals, and seeing them on the field/court later. That was pretty cool. Being paid wouldn't matter that much to me as a student, but if they were just "employees", probably.

Elsewhere, obviously not here so much, the big flagship in your state is considered yours too not just for the student so there is connection at that level too. Same for a smaller or local school where you live...an attachment can be made as well.

Remember, the athletes are still going to be students as much as they are now. It's just that they'll be paid. So they won't be just employees.

 

[retired711]

It's all about the wording and how its presented. A reminder is not a bad thing. Face to face is better than the occasional 5x7 mailer.

When one of my niece's got her master's the last speaker was from alumni relations/engagement. Her message was: "You learned here, We expect you go out earn and then return here." And by "return" she wasn't talking about coming back for Homecoming and picking up a sweatshirt from the bookstore.

Yes, the speaker at your niece's graduation put it well. At law school graduation, the last speaker is from the alumni association who talks about how wonderful the association is and how "you should join it." That doesn't get the message across.

 

[e5fdny]

Remember, the athletes are still going to be students as much as they are now. It's just that they'll be paid. So they won't be just employees.

Not what I was trying to convey…some are saying they won’t be students anymore and just something the school has. So in this case, the connection IMO would be a lot less…as they would essentially be those employees and not members of the student body.

 

[retired711]

Not what I was trying to convey…some are saying they won’t be students anymore and just something the school has. So in this case, the connection IMO would be a lot less…as they would essentially be those employees and not members of the student body.

But what "some are saying" is factually wrong. They will still be students as much as they were, just like students who are paid to be employees in the library. Nothing about NIL or the lawsuit settlement changes that. If someone says, "well, they're here because we're paying them more than the competition," that's no different than a student who comes to a school because of the financial aid package the school gives them or because the total cost of attendance is less than elsewhere.

 

[RUAldo]

Not what I was trying to convey…some are saying they won’t be students anymore and just something the school has. So in this case, the connection IMO would be a lot less…as they would essentially be those employees and not members of the student body.

None of this should make sense to any rational person. LOL = Let’s tell graduates to donate money so Rutgers can pay football players who are barely students to help ensure Rutgers has a good football team until those players get a better offer and transfer. LOL = These football players are members of the student body and get every benefit Rutgers has to offer plus an extra NIL check on top of not having to meet typical admissions/academic standards. What are we doing here folks? It’s hard to believe that people care so much about watching a bunch of kids throw and catch a football. I like a great football game like the next guy but it’s a hobby and entertainment at best and not a lifestyle. I pay for tickets to an event. I don’t pay players competing in that event on top of the tickets and parking. Wanna fix or isolate the problem = jack up ticket prices so the lunatic ticket holders can pay for their beloved athletes. Make tickets $250+ and let’s see who puts their money where their mouth is.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

First, I question your premise that people become interested in college sports only because of their exposure to it in college. If that were true, then the many people in this country who are not college graduates wouldn't care about college sports. I doubt that's true.

But let's assume your premise is true. Then the question becomes whether students would cease caring about college sports because the athletes get paid. (Remember, they would continue to be students just as they are now.) Maybe, but I don't see why. Even now, does anyone believe that college athletes compete just for the glory of the alma mater?

I typed a whole thing here and deleted it because…

Remember, the athletes are still going to be students as much as they are now. It's just that they'll be paid. So they won't be just employees.

You obviously missed Yessir’s post. I was responding to his notion that this will become the equivalent of European club (I.e. a new world where athletes are not required to attend school and matriculate.) They, like European club soccer players, would simply be paid to play for a separate LLC sponsored by the university. I agree with you. I don’t think college interest will be destroyed by NIL and pay for play provided that the athletes continue to technically be students of the school. Even though the academic element is secondary, I do believe it plays a big role overall in the macro level interest in college sports. And yes, sure there are some fans who just watch and pick a team to root for but the overwhelming majority of college sports fans support the school they or someone they know went to.

 

[retired711]

I typed a whole thing here and deleted it because…


You obviously missed Yessir’s post. I was responding to his notion that this will become the equivalent of European club (I.e. a new world where athletes are not required to attend school and matriculate. They, like European club soccer players, would simply be paid to play for a separate LLC sponsored by the university.

Why do you think athletes won't be required to attend school and matriculate? I see nothing in the settlement agreement or anything else that says that. Athletes will be just as much --or just as little - students as they are now. The only difference is they'll be paid.

 

[e5fdny]

None of this should make sense to any rational person. LOL = Let’s tell graduates to donate money so Rutgers can pay football players who are barely students to help ensure Rutgers has a good football team until those players get a better offer and transfer. LOL = These football players are members of the student body and get every benefit Rutgers has to offer plus an extra NIL check on top of not having to meet typical admissions/academic standards. What are we doing here folks? It’s hard to believe that people care so much about watching a bunch of kids throw and catch a football. I like a great football game like the next guy but it’s a hobby and entertainment at best and not a lifestyle. I pay for tickets to an event. I don’t pay players competing in that event on top of the tickets and parking. Wanna fix or isolate the problem = jack up ticket prices so the lunatic ticket holders can pay for their beloved athletes. Make tickets $250+ and let’s see who puts their money where their mouth is.

Mentioned this earlier.

When folks on tMB are beginning to question this whole thing, we could be there for the regular, even if hardcore, fan.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Why do you think athletes won't be required to attend school and matriculate? I see nothing in the settlement agreement or anything else that says that. Athletes will be just as much --or just as little - students as they are now. The only difference is they'll be paid.

Ask Yessir. He posted something about this
turning into European club soccer in the long run. My post was in the context of responding to that - i.e. I disagreed and said it’s not the same because of this very factor - the athletes attend the school.

 

[e5fdny]

But what "some are saying" is factually wrong. They will still be students as much as they were, just like students who are paid to be employees in the library. Nothing about NIL or the lawsuit settlement changes that. If someone says, "well, they're here because we're paying them more than the competition," that's no different than a student who comes to a school because of the financial aid package the school gives them or because the total cost of attendance is less than elsewhere.

For now, that is true. We don't know what eventually may happen.

 

[retired711]

Ask Yessir. He posted something about this
turning into European club soccer in the long run. My post was in the context of responding to that - i.e. I disagreed and said it’s not the same because of this very factor - the athletes attend the school.

Well, maybe he's wrong. There is nothing in the agreements that says that athletes will stop being students. Nor is there anything inevitable about that.

 

[retired711]

For now, that is true. We don't know what eventually may happen.

Of course we don't know. But, as I just said to PSAL, there is nothing inevitable about that. There is no reason why paying athletes will necessarily lead to their not being students.

 

[e5fdny]

Of course we don't know. But, as I just said to PSAL, there is nothing inevitable about that. There is no reason why paying athletes will necessarily lead to their not being students.

Well, there is no reason to think it couldn't actually go that way someday. Because we just don't know how it will all turn out.

And if it does, the disconnect, or schism will be there.

 

[RUAldo]

Why do you think athletes won't be required to attend school and matriculate? I see nothing in the settlement agreement or anything else that says that. Athletes will be just as much --or just as little - students as they are now. The only difference is they'll be paid.

Most of these athletes would NEVER have a shot at getting accepted to Rutgers let alone most top universities which makes this whole mess even funnier. The ONLY reason many of these kids get into good colleges is because they can play football. But that apparently means nothing. And then they get to college and barely show up to class and have tutors holding their hands.

 

[retired711]

Most of these athletes would NEVER have a shot at getting accepted to Rutgers let alone most top universities which makes this whole mess even funnier. The ONLY reason many of these kids get into good colleges is because they can play football. But that apparently means nothing. And then they get to college and barely show up to class and have tutors holding their hands.

That's all true -- and maybe it's an argument for colleges not to be involved in big-time athletics -- but nothing about paying athletes changes that one way of another.

 

[retired711]

Well, there is no reason to think it couldn't actually go that way someday. Because we just don't know how it will all turn out.

And if it does, the disconnect, or schism will be there.

Let's worry about that when and if it happens. Maybe it could go that way, but there's no reason to think that compensation has to lead to that result.

 

[RUAldo]

That's all true -- and maybe it's an argument for colleges not to be involved in big-time athletics -- but nothing about paying athletes changes that one way of another.

There was a time when a student-athlete meant something. Those days are gone. If NIL/payments is the way to go than get rid of scholarships and jack-up ticket prices. Let the athletes make as much money as they want funded by the fans that want them the most, but make the players meet the university’s academic/admission standards and they can pay their own way.

NJ/NY is one of the richest areas of the country. I know dozens of wealthy RU alumni that own businesses and work on Wall Street. There is a reason they aren’t writing big checks to pay players - because so many of them think it’s a joke and have better ways to spend their money and Saturday afternoons.

 

[e5fdny]

Let's worry about that when and if it happens. Maybe it could go that way, but there's no reason to think that compensation has to lead to that result.

Money does strange things.🤷‍♂️

 

[retired711]

There was a time when a student-athlete meant something. Those days are gone. If NIL/payments is the way to go than get rid of scholarships and jack-up ticket prices. Let the athletes make as much money as they want funded by the fans that want them the most, but make the players meet the university’s academic/admission standards and they can pay their own way.

NJ/NY is one of the richest areas of the country. I know dozens of wealthy RU alumni that own businesses and work on Wall Street. There is a reason they aren’t writing big checks to pay players - because so many of them think it’s a joke and have better ways to spend their money and Saturday afternoons.

Again, nothing has changed. They weren't donating even before players were being paid. All they have now is a new excuse not to be doing what they never did.

 

[fsg2]

Again, nothing has changed. They weren't donating even before players were being paid. All they have now is a new excuse not to be doing what they never did.

And on the flip side, there are donors, new and existing, that are energized by the idea of more tangible on-field donation results.

That hasn't been the boon for RU the way it has for other schools (yet) but it's not non-existent, either.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

The last thing I'd ever want at graduation would be to be told I should donate. That would strike me as a little crass. Instead the school needs to create an atmosphere (free of the notorious RU screw) that makes students want to support their alma mater.

When my best friend and I graduated in 1998, we were literally standing in line to walk out the the seating area and we made a pact that we would never, ever donate to Rutgers under any circumstances. We felt like we had battled the RU Screw for four years and finally escaped; not that we had a symbiotic and mutually beneficial relationship with the university. There are a lot of people like me. I felt even more strongly about it when I moved 1700 miles away for graduate school and realized that the faculty and staff at other universities work with and help their students, rather than providing the feeling of being locked into a never-ending death battle.

If the administration cared about donations, they could start by hiring better people, training them better, and holding them to a higher work ethic. The school staff shouldn't be people who the DMV wouldn't hire.

 

[mildone]

People keep talking about getting rid of scholarships for athletes. Y'all aren't thinking it through.

No school, that is competing with other schools for the best athletes, can afford to do away with anything. Because any school that does away with something instantly gives all schools that keep that something a competitive advantage.

And schools that pay athletes or that work to arrange NIL for athletes are obviously very interested in competing for the best athletes they can get.

Also, I fail to understand why fans would GAF about the scholarships. Scholarships are virtual expenses that only exist in an accounting sense. They aren't manufactured and have no cost to produce. So they don't cost the school, or the fans, anything at all.

So why would people call for cutting the scholarships? Since it doesn't cost the fans or the school anything, it just seems mean-spirited to suggest.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Stop allowing amateur players to be paid.

This is settled law. Realistic solutions are needed.