I think there are three explanations: (a) we don't have a lot of prestigious public colleges. There is Rutgers, of course, but aside from Rowan, TCNJ and Montclair, we don't have many others. So NJ students look out-of-state if they want a good school other than Rutgers. And these schools (other than Rutgers) are not that attractive to out-of-staters. (b) Rutgers and the other state schools here have resisted taking many OOS students. I think there is a simple explanation: the state legislature would be very upset if we did. The state's legislators don't want to get letters from home complaining that their kid didn't get into Rutgers because of OOS students. (c) as others have noted above, many high school seniors and their parents see nothing special in going to Rutgers. Good students -- the ones we want -- are particularly likely to think this way.
NJ College Students Leaving By the Thousands
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Does RU have numerous branches...like a Penn State and, to a much lesser extent, PITT? I suppose the size of the state doesn't really lend itself to that but I know both PITT and Penn State have set up smaller campuses in more rural areas and then branded them somewhat. For example, PITT Bradford is essentially a liberal arts school and Penn State Behrend is essentially it's own college with some academic programs that are viewed as being on par with what you can get at University Park.
Smart parents, you will have money for your retirement. If your kids can get into NB, it makes sense to go there unless they don't have the major.
Just was reading Inside Jersey, "College Debt is Killing my Future" One of them went to Northeastern University and took out a loan for $110K for PT. That was nice but I would think there is one college in NJ that you can major in PT. The next guy went to 3 colleges, never got a degree and took a $115k student loan. The next one went to college of NJ and Seton Law School with $145k loan, she plans on loan forgiven after working 10 years as a prosecutor. The last one went to TCNJ and Central Florida for Grad school with $80k loan but a balance of $32k. Didn't need to go to Florida to get her graduate degree.
These are the individuals that said they were kids when they made their decisions about the loans, now, they would all love to have the loans forgiven. I don't feel sorry for any of them. They should have understood about loans before going to college. Everyone wants to go away for college but if you are poor, then you should go community college or commute from home. Poor means getting loans of over $20k over 4 years.
These are the individuals that said they were kids when they made their decisions about the loans, now, they would all love to have the loans forgiven. I don't feel sorry for any of them. They should have understood about loans before going to college. Everyone wants to go away for college but if you are poor, then you should go community college or commute from home. Poor means getting loans of over $20k over 4 years.
I was under the impression that Rutgers had a hard cap on OOS enrollment instituted by the state. Seems RU would max that out to get added tuition $ (even to the point of depressing admission statistics from those OOS students).
From RU published statistics: http://oirap.rutgers.edu/instchar/Factbook_PDFs/2015/2-LREnroll15.pdf
Undergraduate Figures:
Yr Total In State OOS OOS%
2006 36,888 33,922 2,966 8.0%
2007 37,204 34,403 2,801 7.5%
2008 38,902 35,802 3,100 8.0%
2009 40,523 37,596 2,927 7.2%
2010 42,327 39,164 3,163 7.5%
2011 43,386 39,978 3,408 7.9%
2012 43,967 40,518 3,449 7.8%
2013 45,960 41,958 4,002 8.7%
2014 46,809 42,293 4,516 9.6%
2015 48,096 42,963 5,133 10.7%
Slight jump in figures between 2012 and 2013 is addition of RBHS.
Looking at those RU undergrad OOS figures above it is hard to understand how that NY Times article can report only 914 incoming students. Seems RU needs more than 914 and that ignores all other state schools (although their total of OOS may be rather small).
While I think most state universities have OOS caps, I think many/most have much higher caps than RU. I think Penn St reports as many as 30% OOS undergrads enrolled in at State College, but I could be wrong about that PSU figure.
From RU published statistics: http://oirap.rutgers.edu/instchar/Factbook_PDFs/2015/2-LREnroll15.pdf
Undergraduate Figures:
Yr Total In State OOS OOS%
2006 36,888 33,922 2,966 8.0%
2007 37,204 34,403 2,801 7.5%
2008 38,902 35,802 3,100 8.0%
2009 40,523 37,596 2,927 7.2%
2010 42,327 39,164 3,163 7.5%
2011 43,386 39,978 3,408 7.9%
2012 43,967 40,518 3,449 7.8%
2013 45,960 41,958 4,002 8.7%
2014 46,809 42,293 4,516 9.6%
2015 48,096 42,963 5,133 10.7%
Slight jump in figures between 2012 and 2013 is addition of RBHS.
Looking at those RU undergrad OOS figures above it is hard to understand how that NY Times article can report only 914 incoming students. Seems RU needs more than 914 and that ignores all other state schools (although their total of OOS may be rather small).
While I think most state universities have OOS caps, I think many/most have much higher caps than RU. I think Penn St reports as many as 30% OOS undergrads enrolled in at State College, but I could be wrong about that PSU figure.
The NY times article is for one year while the other stats is for 4 or 5 years of OOS students.
Oh, I understand that. 5.1K OOS enrolled in 2015 and growing year over year would seem to need more than 914 in one year unless these kids are staying in for 6 years. Attrition would also go back in the other direction (needing more every year) not to mention there are other NJ state colleges other than RU. Could be old data going back to 2012 or before.
They haven't actually started to to do much yet but the powers have come to realize that winning in the knowledge economy is going to take a lot of educated workers. NJ used to be able to pull them in from other places. We invented the telecommunications industry, starting with Edison through ATT/Bell Labs and Signal Corps Labs at Fort Monmouth. All gone now, off to Silicon Valley and a few others like 128 in MA and DC region.
In phrama we have recently lost major labs to South San Francisco, Boston, and NYC. Hint: they didn't leave because of the high taxes/prices in NJ. They want to be in places top talent want to live and close to top Universities.
Rutgers has two other smaller campuses : Rutgers-Newark and Rutgers-Camden these are the urban campuses. They have their own mascots and play D3. They once played each other for a D3 national championship. I forget which sport, basketball or soccer.
They also have branches and offices all over the state but they are all associated with one of the 3 Rutgers campuses.
comes down to parenting really, too many do not inject their view/decision when needed instead opting to be a friend instead of a parent. Can't tell you how many parents just shrug and say it's their choice, what can I do.
I pay, I have 51% of the decision....period
Okay. Your kid has a 3.5 gpa, top 8% of his graduating class, 1300 SAT scores, and is wait listed from RU because his demographic of upper middle class suburban males is full. Do you send him to Stockton or Montclair?
I can name at least 5 friends this happened to
I've been a Penn State fan all of my life. My father graduated from Penn State and we've had season tickets there since 1982. Based on my circumstances, my final two schools were a PITT branch and a Penn State branch. At no time did my parents tell me where I had to go and I chose PITT for several reasons. They never said boo about it and took an awful ribbing from many of their friends. That doesn't mean they were trying to be my friend or bad parents, it simply means they weren't overbearing tyrants.
stop
that's not even remotely what I'm talking about. How many parents let their kids go and do whatever they want with little direction?
by the way, I'm sure that is RU NB and not Camden or Newark right? Look at Newark or Camden and transfer in
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If they are upper middle class, they don't need the loans especially any loan balance over $40,000. If they do need the loan, they are living beyond their means and stop trying to keep up with the Jones. Move to the middle class neigborhood, you can't afford an upper middle class neigborhood.
Tell them they can not afford an out of state school. This might make them a little tougher and realize they have to even work harder to get on top. 3.5 is fine but the 4.0 student beat you out. STOP BLAMING IT ON AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.
good for you
There are plenty of kids of who are not choosing a cheaper in state option and electing to go out of state to much more expensive institutions while majoring in degrees that simply don't pay with parents that shrug it off.
Well then I very well may have misunderstood your post. In my case the cost was not an issue so it didn't really matter to them. I can see your point if it has to do with a cost difference. I've seen parents say they'll pay the same amount no matter where someone goes. If they choose the more expensive place then they will have loans.
As a disclaimer, I would not have been accepted into PITT or Penn State main for undergrad. Didn't matter because I was destined to go to a smaller school.
I hear a lot of parents say that it is not up to them and yet they are the ones paying....
what the hell am I missing here?
what the hell am I missing here?
Just by judging from my kids friends that went to both of those schools, and two of them transferred to RU, they did not get accepted.
A lot what was said on here is true and some not. We have too many students to handle at our instate schools and I hate to put down some of our schools but those kids that do not get into RUNB would rather go to a UConn, UDel, RI because their parents can afford them then our Montclair , Ramapo etc.
Second, there are those students who have grown up in wealthier towns and parents can afford the privates because they look down at RU. The kids get a lot peer pressure to go to one of the "preppy" schools.
A lot of it is RU's fault and a lot on the people in Trenton. RU loves talking about their diversity. I know it is not the PC thing to say but those wealthier kids and parents come from HS's that are not very diverse. RU also could do what College of NJ did. Take a financial hit for a couple of years and accept only kids that meet certain criteria. Doing that your rankings go higher and all of sudden you can brag about the difficulty of getting into that school. CONJ did not get better professors or all of sudden have better programs, they made the rankings go higher by tougher admissions.
Trenton might be the worse problem. Because of funding RUNB needs to accept a ton of students. The rankings of those students have greatly improved over the years and some of the schools rank with some of the best in the country. But, SAS and SEBS still will admit kids that are in the 1200 -1300 SAT ( which is not bad at all but not elite) to fill spaces. Trenton who also only gives about 18% of funding still pushes certain students must get in if they are from towns like NB , Newark and Camden. Those kids are allowed in with lower scores. Trenton does not get the concept of let's say NC where Chapel Hill has standards that are not compromised but has satellite schools like UNC Charlotte that have some lower standards. A lot of the best publics go by the same principal.
RU is getting better as I see more and more kids not getting accepted and over time RUNB will be seen as elite inside of NJ. But it will take time and money. Trenton will never changes as long as we have the north vs the south politicians.
that is part of the problem when the parent says they'll pay the same amount and the kid is responsible for the loans. Say the kid chooses BU and winds up in social work buried in the additional debt. I think it's nuts to have that attitude but to each their own I guess :)
A lot of people don't realize the amount of tech that was invented here in NJ at Bell Labs and Fort Monmouth
Here is a list of first from Ft. Monmouth which include RADAR and Night Vision among work done on Spread Spectrum radio technology.
Here's an article on Bell Labs in Holmdel and Murray Hill and inventing the future.
I'm talking government statistic for upper middle class, $125,000 in household income, not NJ reality for upper middle class. Sure, they can probably move from Howell to Keansburg or Metuchen to Union City, but that's not a realistic option.
And who blamed affirmative action? The reason it's easier for them to get into an out of state school is they meet the demographic for OOS students. This also leads to a large number of grants that brings the actual cost down
RU has lots of issues from admissions, extreme focus on diversity, political pandering and Trenton involvement, marketing, lack of true focus in where they wan to be, etc etc....
Agreed, Rutgers out of state is a little less then Maryland or even Delaware. We live in PA and the instate costs for PSU are only a little less then out of state in most other states.
So then we would be exporting more students. Brilliant.
By the way, the main mission of a state college/university is to educate students from that state.
Actually the OOS student probably have lower standards because they pay full price. NJ upper middle class is more like 175-300,000.
Those kids will likely go to Delaware, UConn, URI, UVM or UMass, their parent's will eat corn flakes for dinner for 4 years, and they will get a better education than at RU-Newark or RU- Camden.
BTW, the 25-75 for the 2 part SAT is 1020-1220 at Camden and 1050-1250 at Newark
I think, but am not totally sure, that Rutgers-Newark is Division 2, while Rutgers-Camden is Division 3. Keep in mind that R-N has twice the enrollment of R-C.
Bingo,it costs about 29k per year for my son, who is entering his junior year. When you compare that to other in-state tuitions it's on the very high side. I would assume most kids from other states stay in-state because of the the cost.
Yeah, bad decision but the loans will belong to him/her. I know I did some things along the way that went against what my folks advised but such is life. They don't want to hear me bitching about them though, that's for sure.
No, i know that Newark is bigger but they are both D3 and both play in the same conference.
I think many are missing the reason for the "trade imbalance" for students flowing into NJ. Schools like PSU (38%) and Delaware (more than 50%) take take a huge portion of their students from out of state. Our State legislature, despite funding less than 30% of RU's budget, has forbidden RU to take much more than 10% from out-of-state. Thus, even if kids are dying to come here from other states, there's no room for them.
I believe last year, Janet Napolitano, threaten to increase the Out of State Student population to offset cut in the budget for the University of California system as well as increasing tuition by 15%. With Wisconsin and LSU having severe budget problems, they will try to increase OOS students as much as possible. It's just another tool to increase revenue.
Once the State of NJ tries to cut funding to 10-15% of Rutgers budget, Rutgers will have to increase the OOS students which is good and bad depending who you are.
The legislature would surely simply pass a law forbidding Rutgers from increasing out-of state admissions. Even if Christie vetoed, which I doubt, there would probably be the votes to override a veto.
Honestly I think a lot of parents want the "bragging rights" of sending their kids to OOS schools. The issue goes beyond RU though, when you look at USCe and James Madison taking so many NJ kids it's clear they did not get into RU.
Given the cost of those schools, not too bad versus in state, I can understand the parent and kid being more interested than say Montclair. Give the kid a real college experience and I think some better alumni connections depending on the kid's goals.
Now kids that go to Ped if they got into RU, those parents need their heads examined.
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