A Williams needs to start … Simpson … J Mike and Gavin needs to be used at the guard position … sounds nuts but he might finally get off his personal schneid by being forced into that spot. Has the talent but is lost in what part of the offense he belongs .Chol can and should get more time as well as Wolf . Hyatt and Mag are playing well.
Noah is a Bust
- Thread starter RAC93
- Start date
I know they are freshmen but Ace, Harper and Somerville should start day 1. Hopefully Gavin could be a 4 th starter.
So you don’t think these 4 guys with A Williams as the leader would help … Gavin needs to learn and no better way than insert him at the guard spot… Simpson tubs hot n cold … J Mike forced it too many times… Chol will give us help on the perimeter D… Wolf had some good minutes today…
Ace and Dylan have to. I think Gavin will take some steps forward later this season and play his way into the starting lineup as well.
We 100% need to make sure we get Mag back. Beyond that, I guess it will depend on what we want the lineup to look like. I wouldn’t be surprised with Lathan after the other day. I could see Cliff coming back and having a really nice year with the added pieces, especially if Jay Young does come back. Wolf could at least begin the season as the starter, or if we go small maybe we’d have JMike/Dylan/Gavin/Mag/Bailey. A lot of moving pieces but really exciting
How much extra offense did Paul and Cliff create? 1-2 dunks a game, occasionally?
Spencer’s loss hurts more. Having a great shooter draws defenders and opens up the interior, and allows for others to get open shots too. This team is too easy to defend,
I think Noah is best suited coming off the bench. Give me J Mike who plays with a lot of energy and is a freshman. He can grow and develop. Noah looks like the guy you see at the YMCA trying to get a workout in. Williams I like coming off the bench also, like how he plays he's just limited. So Derek starts by default.
Paul’s about to lose his starting spot at Washington. He stinks.
He'd be better here... Fifth year in Pikiell's system and all.
Yet if he and Spencer were still here we would be 10-4 not 8-6…,part of your comment is one reason Paul looked to leave.Many people on this board bashed him even last season … doesn’t shoot well enough, he sucks , should play off guard or different position. Somehow we lost a minimum of 15 points … people forget after 4-5 years he deserved a little respect.
And of course he looked like an All-America against Seton Hall. At least he gave you that.
He was to be a starting piece, a major piece of the roster playing 25-30 minutes per game. That’s taking a big swing on a guy who never played at this level. He was a one year rental and it hasn’t worked. But, come on, are you going to downplay his forecasted role on this team and make him seem like he was just another Wolf or Oskar??? He was seen as a key piece this season, especially with a new style of play they were looking to roll out. It worked with Cam, Pike hit a home run in the portal with him, but Noah has been a swing and a miss.
you live on this forum. You know how Rutgers Fans like to anoint the next coming ... any simple minded fan watchin in practice knew this was a recruiting hype..period. never going to see the floor.
I like facts. Somebody please show me a Rutgers star who got better under Pike and didn't transfer out? Stats...?
Geo (-) ? Ron? Cliff (-) ?, Mac?, Hyatt?
OUT...Paul (-) , Eugene, Cam, Myles, Young , Rieber (no not a star)
Lets deal with FACTS and not your emotions.
Geo (-) ? Ron? Cliff (-) ?, Mac?, Hyatt?
OUT...Paul (-) , Eugene, Cam, Myles, Young , Rieber (no not a star)
Lets deal with FACTS and not your emotions.
He wasn’t better here. His numbers are roughly what they’ve always been, but now feature a sub-30% 3PT game
Let’s focus on Noah, how has he looked? I think many would agree when I say Noah stinks. Paul is gone, forget about him. Let’s focus on what’s on this roster now and let’s start giving more experience to guys who will be here next year and into the future. This season is done, we’ll be overachieving if we go 16-15, and that doesn’t even get us anywhere as far as postseason is concerned. Personally, I think we’ll get 13 or 14 wins. No NCAAs this year, I am cool with that and have accepted it. Let’s play guys more who will be around in the future. Might some transfer out?? Maybe, but still have to get players experience. Noah serves no purpose for next season as he won’t be here. His level of play also suggests he serves no purpose this season. He should be our fourth guard, start A Williams, Start Simpson or JMike (who cares, neither is great but need experience), bring Simpson or JMike off the bench first and then go Noah. He should get the amount of minutes A Williams was getting off the bench.
This is kind of absurd..
Geo, Ron, Cliff, Mag have spent/did spend their entire careers here and were better as seniors than as freshman. How are you claiming they got worse under Pike?
Noah was not a high school recruit, he was a major piece on a UMass team that was better offensively that anything Pike has had here. He has not played well but the potential is obviously there.
Concur, did Ron and Geo get worse while they here? Caleb McConnell?????
It’s not. The idea that Geo Baker was somehow a failure by Steve Pikiell is, frankly, ****ing stupid.
Swinging for the fences would be someone with home run upside. That was never Noah
Did someone say failure?
I don’t think Geo, Ron, Cliff, Hyatt, Paul or Caleb were better their final years than their 3rd or even 2nd years.
So do you think Pikiell has a coaching style that specifically causes U-shaped development (his players improve and then.. get worse?). That essentially makes no sense, and cherry picking improvment in "final year" as opposed to just improvement over the course of their career is not a reasonable way to look at it.
Also Caleb was DPOY in his final year and Hyatt is far better this year than he has been in any previous year.
Never said anything about regressing or getting worse.
I don’t think they got better, easy as that, no cherry picking.
No i don’t think Hyatt has improved in the least, he’s not worse…. He’s the same player he’s always been.
But why should I care if they got better in their "final year", specifically? That's where the cherry picking is. Literally every one of those players improved over the course of their time here, the specific pattern of that improvement is irrelevant.
Don't agree. He's the same general player, sure, but an improved version.
As a fan I project, often with scarlet colored glasses.
I observe and evaluate freshman and sophomore contributors and project their eventual impacts….
Hard to argue the impact of Geo, Paul and Ron, 3 NCAA appearances prove it.
I expected more from them in their final years…. Perhaps that’s just my problem
If we are just talking personal hopes and feelings that's fine, reasonable, makes sense to me. I just don't think it indicates anything about the coaching staff.
Geo said his body broke down on him in his 5th year IIRC. Paul had the shoulder injury and I think there was a pretty significant mental/psychological component that hindered him. Ron was our alpha and shot 39% from 3, and was signed by an NBA team.
It’s revisionist by a lot on this board to criticize the player development given their recruiting rankings vs. our results
I’ve said often, players don’t get better. Athletically and skill-wise they are nearly a finished product by college.
The best players are NBA-ready as freshmen. The rest don’t get better either. Nobody on this team got better or got worse. Some freshmen excel right away, some never do. The idea that staying in school to develop further for the NBA is a fallacy.
Point totals and other stats increase as a function of playing time (and other players leaving).
A coach’s job is to take the players he’s assembled and make the best team out of the pieces. Maximize team performance with different abilities to work with.
People here are misguided in thinking Cliff would be better with better coaching, Woolfolk can be coached up, etc. They are who they are.
That’s not how it works.
The best players are NBA-ready as freshmen. The rest don’t get better either. Nobody on this team got better or got worse. Some freshmen excel right away, some never do. The idea that staying in school to develop further for the NBA is a fallacy.
Point totals and other stats increase as a function of playing time (and other players leaving).
A coach’s job is to take the players he’s assembled and make the best team out of the pieces. Maximize team performance with different abilities to work with.
People here are misguided in thinking Cliff would be better with better coaching, Woolfolk can be coached up, etc. They are who they are.
That’s not how it works.
As I said. Go look at the facts/stats and you tell me. I've done enough over the years to know the numbers for Mr. Baker (who I like). Ron ..should have left him off the list. You think Cliff this year is better? You think Paul last year was better? I said better and you put in the word worse. Well maybe . You want to look at the below and compare Soph Geo to 5th year Geo?
The below doesn't even bring "consistency" into the analysis.
| Season | School | Conf | Class | G | GS | MP | FG | FGA | FG% | 2P | 2PA | 2P% | 3P | 3PA | 3P% | FT | FTA | FT% | ORB | DRB | TRB | AST | STL | BLK | TOV | PF | PTS | SOS | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2017-18 | Rutgers | Big Ten | FR | 33 | 29 | 31.6 | 3.8 | 10.1 | .380 | 2.2 | 5.7 | .396 | 1.6 | 4.5 | .361 | 1.5 | 2.0 | .785 | 0.4 | 1.8 | 2.2 | 2.6 | 1.1 | 0.4 | 1.7 | 2.1 | 10.8 | 6.84 | |
| 2018-19 | Rutgers | Big Ten | SO | 31 | 30 | 34.0 | 4.2 | 11.7 | .354 | 2.2 | 6.1 | .367 | 1.9 | 5.7 | .341 | 1.9 | 2.6 | .741 | 0.2 | 2.9 | 3.1 | 4.1 | 1.6 | 0.5 | 3.0 | 1.9 | 12.2 | 9.76 | |
| 2019-20 | Rutgers | Big Ten | JR | 28 | 19 | 28.9 | 4.0 | 10.1 | .399 | 2.8 | 5.6 | .494 | 1.3 | 4.5 | .280 | 1.6 | 2.0 | .772 | 0.5 | 2.5 | 3.0 | 3.5 | 1.1 | 0.6 | 1.8 | 2.0 | 10.9 | 9.68 | |
| 2020-21 | Rutgers | Big Ten | SR | 25 | 22 | 31.2 | 4.0 | 9.7 | .409 | 2.5 | 4.8 | .517 | 1.5 | 4.9 | .303 | 1.0 | 1.3 | .750 | 0.3 | 2.8 | 3.1 | 3.2 | 1.2 | 0.4 | 1.7 | 2.2 | 10.4 | 12.50 | |
| 2021-22 | Rutgers | Big Ten | SR | 28 | 27 | 34.4 | 4.7 | 11.8 | .398 | 2.8 | 6.1 | .459 | 1.9 | 5.6 | .331 | 1.4 | 1.9 | .741 | 0.5 | 1.6 | 2.1 | 3.9 | 1.2 | 0.4 | 1.6 | 1.5 | 12.6 | 6.81 | |
| Career | Rutgers | 145 | 127 | 32.1 | 4.1 | 10.7 | .386 | 2.5 | 5.7 | .439 | 1.6 | 5.0 | .326 | 1.5 | 2.0 | .758 | 0.4 | 2.3 | 2.7 | 3.4 | 1.2 | 0.5 | 2.0 | 1.9 | 11.4 | 9.12 |
I think they were all better when they left than when they entered, comparing year 2 to year 5 for some specific player is cherry picking imo.
That said, Geo scored slightly more points on better shooting, cut down his turnovers, fouled less. And this while missing part of the cupcake portion of the schedule. So is year 5 dramatically better? No. But if I had to pick one I'm still taking year 5 Geo.
Also, IF it were true that all/many of Pike's players improved a lot from year 1 => year 2 and then flatlined, that can just as easily be an argument that he brought out the player's full potential quickly.
again you're the one who said frosh vs. Senior. Not me. I gave you one particular year. You honestly look at those stats and see some great improvement.?
Here is Caleb. Look at his Offensive number and his D numbers. One clearly is better and one not. The facts are the facts.
| son | School | Conf | Class | G | GS | MP | FG | FGA | FG% | 2P | 2PA | 2P% | 3P | 3PA | 3P% | FT | FTA | FT% | ORB | DRB | TRB | AST | STL | BLK | TOV | PF | PTS | SOS | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2018-19 | Rutgers | Big Ten | FR | 31 | 0 | 15.5 | 1.7 | 4.2 | .415 | 1.1 | 2.4 | .459 | 0.6 | 1.8 | .357 | 1.4 | 1.7 | .792 | 0.5 | 2.0 | 2.5 | 1.0 | 0.8 | 0.1 | 1.2 | 1.3 | 5.5 | 9.76 | |
| 2019-20 | Rutgers | Big Ten | SO | 31 | 21 | 21.4 | 2.5 | 6.1 | .411 | 2.1 | 4.5 | .457 | 0.5 | 1.6 | .280 | 1.2 | 1.5 | .792 | 1.0 | 2.7 | 3.7 | 1.5 | 0.8 | 0.2 | 1.4 | 1.6 | 6.7 | 9.68 | |
| 2020-21 | Rutgers | Big Ten | JR | 20 | 8 | 22.9 | 2.2 | 7.0 | .317 | 1.7 | 4.5 | .378 | 0.5 | 2.5 | .204 | 0.8 | 1.0 | .800 | 1.2 | 3.2 | 4.3 | 1.6 | 1.5 | 0.4 | 0.9 | 2.4 | 5.7 | 12.50 | |
| 2021-22 | Rutgers | Big Ten | SR | 32 | 31 | 29.9 | 2.7 | 6.8 | .397 | 2.2 | 5.0 | .444 | 0.5 | 1.8 | .271 | 1.1 | 1.7 | .667 | 1.1 | 4.2 | 5.3 | 2.1 | 2.2 | 0.5 | 1.6 | 2.8 | 7.1 | 6.81 | |
| 2022-23 | Rutgers | Big Ten | SR | 28 | 26 | 33.7 | 3.6 | 9.1 | .395 | 3.1 | 6.9 | .458 | 0.5 | 2.3 | .203 | 1.4 | 2.1 | .650 | 1.5 | 4.0 | 5.5 | 3.1 | 2.5 | 0.4 | 2.1 | 2.3 | 9.1 | 7.3 |
Keep in mind that Geo's first two years were with a closer three point line, which most people tend to forget/ignore.
Even so, following your premise of soph vs 5th year, he was a more efficient scorer with fewer turnovers and fouls. And that's excluding the fact that he missed 4 games at the start of the season due to injury, while he was healthy all season as a sophomore.
There’s an awful lot of complaints we don’t use cutters, screens, sets or plays… why is that?
How do you explain Cliff not able to catch the ball without two or three guys completely draping and smothering him.
The one on one, street ball, create offense vs actually running an offense has been a complaint here for years.
Similar threads
