Offensive Fool’s Gold (and real gold)

[Greene Rice FIG]

In the past I have called fool’s gold when we had good offensive output from hot shooting.

Last night was the opposite. We shot horrible from the outside 2-13?

Why are so many posts a out what we should do differently offensively and who needs to step up on offense. We just scored 85 points with bad shooting.

This was real Gold.

 

[BillyC80]

In the past I have called fool’s gold when we had good offensive output from hot shooting.

Last night was the opposite. We shot horrible from the outside 2-13?

Why are so many posts a out what we should do differently offensively and who needs to step up on offense. We just scored 85 points with bad shooting.

This was real Gold.

Scored 85 and 90 back-to-back with virtually no rest in between.

Our D was good last night until a shot went up.

Too many second and third chance points doomed us, and yet incredibly, we were in it at under a minute to go.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

In the past I have called fool’s gold when we had good offensive output from hot shooting.

Last night was the opposite. We shot horrible from the outside 2-13?

Why are so many posts a out what we should do differently offensively and who needs to step up on offense. We just scored 85 points with bad shooting.

This was real Gold.

This x 100000

we are starting to get it offensively …spacing getting better (whixh is why theee is lanes to drive). We still get these 5 minute scoring droughts in the first half in the last three games we need to fix and not get us in a hole …but I think as we start to figure out a rotation and rolls and get used to playing with each other …a lot of this sorts it out

 

[High Quality H2O]

I thought the same thing, if Dylan is going to score at the rate he is do we need someone else to score the same points?

In future games if he gets cold or tired or to help keep defense honest absolutely.

Getting crushed on the boards is the killer Obviously.

I’m confident Zach Martini FT and 3PT will correct and normalize.
I was pretty upset and 5th year Captain from Princeton allowed a ball to go out of bounds in a “both outfielders watching the ball hit the ground” moment.

 

[Mholinko]

I thought the same thing, if Dylan is going to score at the rate he is do we need someone else to score the same points?

In future games if he gets cold or tired or to help keep defense honest absolutely.

Getting crushed on the boards is the killer Obviously.

I’m confident Zach Martini FT and 3PT will correct and normalize.
I was pretty upset and 5th year Captain from Princeton allowed a ball to go out of bounds in a “both outfielders watching the ball hit the ground” moment.

Dylan can’t be asked to drop 30 every night and play 38 minutes

He’ll be toast by March

Somebody besides Ace and Dylan need to score consistent 12-14

Most of us thought getting 35-36 ppg from two frosh combined would be enough

We’re getting 43 and it’s not enough

 

[bac2therac]

Dylan can’t be asked to drop 30 every night and play 38 minutes

He’ll be toast by March

Somebody besides Ace and Dylan need to score consistent 12-14

Most of us thought getting 35-36 ppg from two frosh combined would be enough

We’re getting 43 and it’s not enough

This

Several opportunities in this game for someone else besides Dylan or Ace to step up and hit a big shot and didnt happen

Yes its Bama but the concern of groundhog day

 

[mikeyo]

I thought the same thing, if Dylan is going to score at the rate he is do we need someone else to score the same points?

In future games if he gets cold or tired or to help keep defense honest absolutely.

Getting crushed on the boards is the killer Obviously.

I’m confident Zach Martini FT and 3PT will correct and normalize.
I was pretty upset and 5th year Captain from Princeton allowed a ball to go out of bounds in a “both outfielders watching the ball hit the ground” moment.

A bona-fide 3rd scorer would help

 

[High Quality H2O]

Dylan can’t be asked to drop 30 every night and play 38 minutes

He’ll be toast by March

Somebody besides Ace and Dylan need to score consistent 12-14

Most of us thought getting 35-36 ppg from two frosh combined would be enough

We’re getting 43 and it’s not enough

I agree it’s not sustainable but our bad 3pt shooting night isn’t the norm either. I think greens point. We are shooting our best clip from 3 since 21-22 so far.

I’m not beefing with how we got our 90 points in a given game.

We know what the priority is.

 

[darkcheck]

This

Several opportunities in this game for someone else besides Dylan or Ace to step up and hit a big shot and didnt happen

Yes its Bama but the concern of groundhog day

The St. John’s exhibition told us a lot.

 

[RUJMM78]

A 3 point shooter is needed because that extra point adds up and clearly was the reason Alabama won the game .They made ten 3 pointers as compared to only two for Rutgers.

 

[darkcheck]

Close losses are garbage when there’s so many things that need extreme improvement (REBOUNDING, bench scoring and three point %). We can wish them better all we want but they’re not getting better and in-season is not when skill improvement happens. Dylan scores 18 and last nights game is a blowout. This is still going to be a long season with so many team flaws.

 

[RexMantlepiece]

Dylan can’t be asked to drop 30 every night and play 38 minutes

He’ll be toast by March

Somebody besides Ace and Dylan need to score consistent 12-14

Most of us thought getting 35-36 ppg from two frosh combined would be enough

We’re getting 43 and it’s not enough

Agaisnt a top 10 team last night yes it was not enough but most nights less than that combined will be enough

 

[darkcheck]

A 3 point shooter is needed because that extra point adds up and clearly was the reason Alabama won the game .They made ten 3 pointers as compared to only two for Rutgers.

We were told this team had three Pt shooters in abundance. What we NEED in a rebounding. Have to eliminate second chance ops

 

[bac2therac]

I agree it’s not sustainable but our bad 3pt shooting night isn’t the norm either. I think greens point. We are shooting our best clip from 3 since 21-22 so far.

I’m not beefing with how we got our 90 points in a given game.

We know what the priority is.

we are only shooting 33% from 3

7-21 wagner
3-16 st peters
11-20 monmouth
7-17 merrimack
8-25 Ksu
8-24 Nd
2-13 Bama

I liked Pike realized we should not be taking alot of 3s yesterday because we would have lost by double digits....however there were point blank wide open misses that we missed. If that continues along with our rebounding woes its going to be tough to overcome

Bama isnt the kind of team you will see in the Big 10 playing at such a fast pace that can hit alot of 3s so in that respect things will be different in league play.

To beat an elite type team like Bama you need to hit 3s and we didnt

 

[mjjoyce51]

I thought the same thing, if Dylan is going to score at the rate he is do we need someone else to score the same points?

In future games if he gets cold or tired or to help keep defense honest absolutely.

Getting crushed on the boards is the killer Obviously.

I’m confident Zach Martini FT and 3PT will correct and normalize.
I was pretty upset and 5th year Captain from Princeton allowed a ball to go out of bounds in a “both outfielders watching the ball hit the ground” moment.

I think JWill is showing that he can be that third guy. He was able to get to his spots, draw fouls, and nail those floaters. Unfortunately he only played 15 minutes (10 points) and fouled out with 9:30 left in the game.

 

[High Quality H2O]

we are only shooting 33% from 3

7-21 wagner
3-16 st peters
11-20 monmouth
7-17 merrimack
8-25 Ksu
8-24 Nd
2-13 Bama

I liked Pike realized we should not be taking alot of 3s yesterday because we would have lost by double digits....however there were point blank wide open misses that we missed. If that continues along with our rebounding woes its going to be tough to overcome

Bama isnt the kind of team you will see in the Big 10 playing at such a fast pace that can hit alot of 3s so in that respect things will be different in league play.

To beat an elite type team like Bama you need to hit 3s and we didnt

Only 33.3% but this is Pikiells 2nd best % year at Rutgers when they shot 33.6 in 21-22. Most other years 29-31ish.

We are going to have more decent (not great( 3pt shooting nights than not.

Get killed on the boards is our consistent issue this year.

At least we showed some more intensity on defense last night. Liked that 1st half energy, sans missing JWill.

 

[RAC93]

Scored 85 and 90 back-to-back with virtually no rest in between.

Our D was good last night until a shot went up.

Too many second and third chance points doomed us, and yet incredibly, we were in it at under a minute to go.

This is a great point, the defense appears to be improving and the total breakdowns seem to be happening less, although they still happen. Pike seems to be focusing on giving more minutes right now to those who are helping reduce the defensive breakdowns.

The biggest issue defensively right now is keeping the opponent off the offensive boards. If we can just be close to even with opponents in the rebounding battle, even if we get outrebounded but it’s at least close, we will be able to win more games. Our last 2 losses we are minus 19 (Kennesaw) and minus 12 (Bama). ND we were a minus 6 and produced a win. I am not sure if we win the rebounding battle all that much this year, but we have to be more competitive in this area as Big 10 play is coming soon. I don’t know what the answer is when we have a roster construction issue that caused this issue by not grabbing another big, maybe Ogbole and Lathan need to play together as Center and Power forward for small portions of games. I don’t know the answer, that’s Pike’s job, but him having practices and just saying “we need to rebound, we need to rebound” may not be able to get these guys to physically grab more rebounds from our opponents in games. If we can just be close to competitive on the boards or god forbid win the rebounding battle, we will be a very dangerous team in March with two weapons that not many teams will want to face when they look at their Tourney bracket matchups. RU could be a team no one wants to face if we can improve some of the current deficiencies.

 

[goru7]

In the past I have called fool’s gold when we had good offensive output from hot shooting.

Last night was the opposite. We shot horrible from the outside 2-13?

Why are so many posts a out what we should do differently offensively and who needs to step up on offense. We just scored 85 points with bad shooting.

This was real Gold.

Do you realize if Zack Martini hits his wide open three from 3 or hits his layup or hits his 2 foul shots after the layup miss , coupled with the critical play in the game when Jordan instead of just laying the ball off the glass tries to be a show off and attempts the dunk which of course misses and Bama gets the runout and Sears drains the 3 wide open , we win that game making 2 three pointers . Incredible how good Dylan was on 2 point field goals. Ace looking unstoppable at times . But again Jordan misses the dunk and another time drives into the lane with traffic and throws up a terrible shot , is the fine line between winning and losing . The momentum had swung in the building and RU had a 5 point lead and looked we were going to score everytime down and the missed dunk ( like Myles’ miss) changed momentum back to Alabama. Jordan also missed the dunk against Notre Dame which prevented a bigger lead but he played really well against Notre Dame , not so much yesterday .
Also losing Jeremiah to foul trouble and to fouls was a killer. He had 10 points in limited action , would have been our third scorer , he is our best defender and would have given Sears and their other guards resistance. Acuff got abused for 4/5 layups that would not have happened if JWill was in the game.
Just some simple little things like layups cost us a game where we only hit 2 threes to their 10 . Think about that for a second. We should have beat the # 9 team in the country making only 2 threes to their 10, a 24 point differential .
Then think about getting a damn defensive rebound where Alabama got second and third chances that they eventually converted. None more e gregarious than the failure to get the rebound off the missed foul shot down 3 at 91-88 , that cost us a chance to tie or bring it to 1 with under 30 seconds. The little damn fundamental things.

 

[Rufaninga]

Digging for real gold takes effort, time & direction. It is not just readily available for everyone to just quickly pickup & obtain it

We have an entirely new roster.
Everything cannot be easily picked up day one.
Culture, effort, defensive sets, offensive sets, rebounding,etc. Our staff has to prioritize what gets focused on from pre-season to post season. Everything cannot be priority one or nothing gets accomplished. This is a journey, where young talented freshman are learning the college game & our incoming transfers are learning our system & playing with young players that are still trying to absorb everything & it's a lot!

We are making steady progress in many areas & hope we gain enough along the way to be ready for the post season.

We have the star & role players, but it will take time to get and have them figure it all out.

 

[NickRU714]

In the past I have called fool’s gold when we had good offensive output from hot shooting.

Last night was the opposite. We shot horrible from the outside 2-13?

Why are so many posts a out what we should do differently offensively and who needs to step up on offense. We just scored 85 points with bad shooting.

This was real Gold.

I feel like if I told you a week ago our path to success is Ace/Dylan playing 36mpg and scoring 60pts - you would have been bent over laughing.

No more worries about the the tough Big Ten grind and them wearing down as freshman?

 

[seansherm]

This

Several opportunities in this game for someone else besides Dylan or Ace to step up and hit a big shot and didnt happen

Yes its Bama but the concern of groundhog day

There were opportunities, not sure several, for someone to step up. Last night it was really only Derkack, as I don't believe anyone other than him got more than 4 shots. Not much chance for offensive rhythm for others. If Hayes can't get on the court, Derkack, Acuff, and JWill need to find a way to combine for like 5 three's a night outside what DH and AB do.

 

[seansherm]

we are only shooting 33% from 3

7-21 wagner
3-16 st peters
11-20 monmouth
7-17 merrimack
8-25 Ksu
8-24 Nd
2-13 Bama

I liked Pike realized we should not be taking alot of 3s yesterday because we would have lost by double digits....however there were point blank wide open misses that we missed. If that continues along with our rebounding woes its going to be tough to overcome

Bama isnt the kind of team you will see in the Big 10 playing at such a fast pace that can hit alot of 3s so in that respect things will be different in league play.

To beat an elite type team like Bama you need to hit 3s and we didnt

Bama isnt the kind of team you will see in the Big 10 playing at such a fast pace that can hit alot of 3s so in that respect things will be different in league play.

Are we sure this part is still true? Bama has now played three B1G teams and the B1G has scored 87, 87, and 90. The other big teams played at a decent pace too. There are like 11 conference teams averaging over 80 per, and we are like 7th thus far.

 

[NickRU714]

There were opportunities, not sure several, for someone to step up. Last night it was really only Derkack, as I don't believe anyone other than him got more than 4 shots. Not much chance for offensive rhythm for others. If Hayes can't get on the court, Derkack, Acuff, and JWill need to find a way to combine for like 5 three's a night outside what DH and AB do.

If Derkack and Williams are expected to provide 3pt shooting - they'll need to take a ton of them.
They shoot 25%.
Would need to average 8 attempts a game just to get 2.

Plus another 5 attempts from Acuff?

That's an additonal 10-15 attempts just for them.
Which is shots from Ace/Dylan.

The solution is figure how to get Hayes and Martini to be taking those shots. More production on less volume because they are better.

 

[Eagleton96]

Close losses are garbage when there’s so many things that need extreme improvement (REBOUNDING, bench scoring and three point %). We can wish them better all we want but they’re not getting better and in-season is not when skill improvement happens. Dylan scores 18 and last nights game is a blowout. This is still going to be a long season with so many team flaws.

Do you know what extreme means? If we had extreme improvement in the categories you cite we win this game by 20 over a final 4 team. We need incremental improvement to achieve our realistic goals.

 

[Rufaninga]

When DH is getting a breather, get Jamichael Davis to slow down from 100mph on drives & spot the open man to dish for 3pt attempt.

That's 3 attempts right there.

 

[RUBlackout]

I believe Hayes needs more minutes as he tries for rebounds and we need to get him 3s.

That said his defense needs massive work

 

[Eagleton96]

When DH is getting a breather, get Jamichael Davis to slow down from 100mph on drives & spot the open man to dish for 3pt attempt.

That's 3 attempts right there.

JMike needs to set up the shooters on the floor and not try to emulate Dylan. He had a few good games early on where he stayed in his lane but he’s regressed and is a full liability last few games (and not getting many minutes).

 

[RUBlackout]

When DH is getting a breather, get Jamichael Davis to slow down from 100mph on drives & spot the open man to dish for 3pt attempt.

That's 3 attempts right there.

JMike should not be playing

He is out of control on offense and his defense is subpar. Not sure what you get there compared to others

 

[Eagleton96]

I believe Hayes needs more minutes as he tries for rebounds and we need to get him 3s.

That said his defense needs massive work

His D and athleticism and ability to scrap just haven’t been good enough to stay on the floor. Having said that if we see some junk defenses to stop Dylan, and they actually work in stopping his scoring, Hayes’ his skill set will be more valuable.

 

[darkcheck]

Do you know what extreme means? If we had extreme improvement in the categories you cite we win this game by 20 over a final 4 team. We need incremental improvement to achieve our realistic goals.

I disagree. The items I named need Extreme improvement, yes I know what it means. Especially rebounding. I’m not talking about last nights game. I mean for the whole season and to achieve season goals. Dylan scoring 37 is EXTREME. It’s not something we can count on every night.

 

[Eagleton96]

I disagree. The items I named need Extreme improvement, yes I know what it means. Especially rebounding. I’m not talking about last nights game. I mean for the whole season and to achieve season goals. Dylan scoring 37 is EXTREME. It’s not something we can count on every night.

I’m sticking with steady incremental improvement.

 

[NickRU714]

When DH is getting a breather, get Jamichael Davis to slow down from 100mph on drives & spot the open man to dish for 3pt attempt.

That's 3 attempts right there.

It's been almost a year and half of asking for this.
Do we really have the leway to keep asking that the rest of the year?

 

[Caliknight]

We missed threes they didn’t. That was the game

 

[bac2therac]

Bama isnt the kind of team you will see in the Big 10 playing at such a fast pace that can hit alot of 3s so in that respect things will be different in league play.

Are we sure this part is still true? Bama has now played three B1G teams and the B1G has scored 87, 87, and 90. The other big teams played at a decent pace too. There are like 11 conference teams averaging over 80 per, and we are like 7th thus far.

Surprisingly rutgers isnt in the bottom few in big 10 3 point shooting

 

[seansherm]

If Derkack and Williams are expected to provide 3pt shooting - they'll need to take a ton of them.
They shoot 25%.
Would need to average 8 attempts a game just to get 2.

Plus another 5 attempts from Acuff?

That's an additonal 10-15 attempts just for them.
Which is shots from Ace/Dylan.

The solution is figure how to get Hayes and Martini to be taking those shots. More production on less volume because they are better.

No, 5 total threes from the three of them. Much like against ND we got two from Williams and Derkack, on 5 attempts each. Hayes and Martini are proving to have to be wide open to get a shot up against quick defenders. Not sure we can afford long stretches of awful defense and rebounding in hopes they get one or two good looks.

 

[NickRU714]

No, 5 total threes from the three of them. Much like against ND we got two from Williams and Derkack, on 5 attempts each. Hayes and Martini are proving to have to be wide open to get a shot up against quick defenders. Not sure we can afford long stretches of awful defense and rebounding in hopes they get one or two good looks.

4-10 from 3 against ND is very likely to be the extreme outlier for Derkack and Williams.

This year outside of ND:
Derkack: 1-10 from 3 (0-3 last night and they were wide open)
Williams: 0-4 from 3

Career:
Derkack: 25.7% (73 games)
Williams: 25.2% (56 games)

If you're telling me Derkack and Williams will be 40% 3pt shooters for the rest of the year then sure. I agree. Let them fire away.
But I wouldn't pin our season hopes on that.

At some point HC Pike may have to sacrifice defense for 3pt shooting.

(Note - if we don't run actual plays or movement to get Hayes/Martini open shots then it's pointless anyway and just bury them. But don't expect Williams/Derkack to pick up the shooting slack).

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I feel like if I told you a week ago our path to success is Ace/Dylan playing 36mpg and scoring 60pts - you would have been bent over laughing.

No more worries about the the tough Big Ten grind and them wearing down as freshman?

Defintely major concerns

100%

 

[seansherm]

4-10 from 3 against ND is very likely to be the extreme outlier for Derkack and Williams.

This year outside of ND:
Derkack: 1-10 from 3 (0-3 last night and they were wide open)
Williams: 0-4 from 3

Career:
Derkack: 25.7% (73 games)
Williams: 25.2% (56 games)

If you're telling me Derkack and Williams will be 40% 3pt shooters for the rest of the year then sure. I agree. Let them fire away.
But I wouldn't pin our season hopes on that.

At some point HC Pike may have to sacrifice defense for 3pt shooting.

(Note - if we don't run actual plays or movement to get Hayes/Martini open shots then it's pointless anyway and just bury them. But don't expect Williams/Derkack to pick up the shooting slack).

That's kind of my point, we've basically pinned our hopes on guys that can't shoot. So we have to hope they can be better than the past.

ZM and PH cant create their own shot so unless they receive it in perfect position they are just giving the ball up again. Martini was like Princeton's fourth best player, banking on him to be a difference maker probably won't work out. Hayes, we don't know for sure, but the better the comp the more he's disappeared.