Omoruyi Last Season - How Much Has to be Replaced by Ogbole/Sommerville/Martini?

[lion1983]

Let me start by offering the opinion that this year's team would certainly be better off having Omoruyi, than not.

FYI, Omoruyi was an incredible shot blocker last season, showing a sharp improvement in shot blocking.

BUT .. his post defense was much poorer than the year prior, and he made zero progress offensively. WAY too many opponent centers out-scored, out-rebounded and out-played him last season. This was not talked about a lot given the other obvious other deficiencies of the team. Coming into the season, RU needed Omoruyi to be better than his counterpart most of the time. But he was NOT, too often. Omoruyi's lack of progress - and in some ways regression even - were keys to RU's losses in a number of games including the likes of:

1) Wake Forest's Reid out played Omoruyi, then and Mississippi St's center Bell killed Omoruyi (17 pts, 18 reb to Omo's 5 fouls, 3 pts, 0 reb)!!! killing RU,

And in conference:

2) Iowa's FROSH getting 15 pts and 4 reb to Omo's 6 pts and 9 reb,

3) Even in a win vs Indiana, Ware and Reneau combined for 26 pts and 23 reb to Omo's 5 pts and 11 reb,

4) In a loss to PSU, Wahab outplayed Omo, with 9 pts and 11 reb to Omo's 8 pts and 6 reb,

5) In a win vs UM, Omo played well, but Reed still had 12 pts and 15 reb,

6) In 2 regular season games vs Maryland Reese had 39 pts and 18 reb combined, to Omo's 13 pts and 9 reb combined (!!),

7) In a l oss to Minny, Omo played well with 19 pts and 8 reb - but Pharell Payne had 21 pts and 11 reb against Omo and Omo could not stop him down the stretch,

8) In 2 games against Edey of Purdue last season Omo was totally outclassed in both games, whereas the prior season Omo held his own quite well, only slightly outplayed,

9) In the 2nd game vs Nebraska, Omo had just 6 points and 2 reb, while Gary and Allick combined for 26 pts and 23 reb,

10) In the 1st game vs Wisc, Omo outplayed Crowl but in the 2nd game Crowl killed Omo,

11) In the 2nd OSU game, a loss, Omo and Okpara basically played even, and

12) In the 3rd game vs Maryland, Reese was not as good - just 12 pts and 6 reb - but Omo was miserably bad, 1-7 FG, 2 pts and 5 reb.

 

[motorb54]

This! Crazy athletic dunks but poor overall basketball skills.

 

[YoucancallmeRay]

Let me start by offering the opinion that this year's team would certainly be better off having Omoruyi, than not.

FYI, Omoruyi was an incredible shot blocker last season, showing a sharp improvement in shot blocking.

BUT .. his post defense was much poorer than the year prior, and he made zero progress offensively. WAY too many opponent centers out-scored, out-rebounded and out-played him last season. This was not talked about a lot given the other obvious other deficiencies of the team. Coming into the season, RU needed Omoruyi to be better than his counterpart most of the time. But he was NOT, too often. Omoruyi's lack of progress - and in some ways regression even - were keys to RU's losses in a number of games including the likes of:

1) Wake Forest's Reid out played Omoruyi, then and Mississippi St's center Bell killed Omoruyi (17 pts, 18 reb to Omo's 5 fouls, 3 pts, 0 reb)!!! killing RU,

And in conference:

2) Iowa's FROSH getting 15 pts and 4 reb to Omo's 6 pts and 9 reb,

3) Even in a win vs Indiana, Ware and Reneau combined for 26 pts and 23 reb to Omo's 5 pts and 11 reb,

4) In a loss to PSU, Wahab outplayed Omo, with 9 pts and 11 reb to Omo's 8 pts and 6 reb,

5) In a win vs UM, Omo played well, but Reed still had 12 pts and 15 reb,

6) In 2 regular season games vs Maryland Reese had 39 pts and 18 reb combined, to Omo's 13 pts and 9 reb combined (!!),

7) In a l oss to Minny, Omo played well with 19 pts and 8 reb - but Pharell Payne had 21 pts and 11 reb against Omo and Omo could not stop him down the stretch,

8) In 2 games against Edey of Purdue last season Omo was totally outclassed in both games, whereas the prior season Omo held his own quite well, only slightly outplayed,

9) In the 2nd game vs Nebraska, Omo had just 6 points and 2 reb, while Gary and Allick combined for 26 pts and 23 reb,

10) In the 1st game vs Wisc, Omo outplayed Crowl but in the 2nd game Crowl killed Omo,

11) In the 2nd OSU game, a loss, Omo and Okpara basically played even, and

12) In the 3rd game vs Maryland, Reese was not as good - just 12 pts and 6 reb - but Omo was miserably bad, 1-7 FG, 2 pts and 5 reb.

So, to sum up, if any of our three centers are breathing, they'll be better than Cliff.

 

[nutfromSEC117]

Which guy is going to shoot a 5 footer 3 feet short ??

Just saying.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Omoruyi was so important on the defensive end.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

There is nothing wrong with the stats that can support whatever argument you want to make, but the post defense argument is obviously false.

If you have a clear and easy entry pass into the post, any reasonable big SHOULD score. 1 on 1 vs any other big......why??

Because if the opponent has capable shooting, a defense has to make a decision to leave Cliff 1 on 1 and surrender a 2 point shot OR, stay with their man and prevent a 3 point attempt.

So the individual stats are taken out of context on defense.

The defense that ultimately will make the difference this year, is Bryce Dortch at 6'10, Dylan Grant at 6'8, Sommerville at 6'10, Ogbole up front.....but that's not where we are better this year.

Replacing Mag with Derkack.....having 6'9" Ace Bailey vs Hyatt.....Wolf was essentially the same size as Martini.....plus we add Dylan Harper at 6'6', with arm length.....Simpson, Fernandes were undersized and could not prevent clear and easy entry passes into the post.....the GUARD and WING length, is the biggest defensive improvement to help the post defense.

The issue is NOT the defense, it is what the poster breaks down about the offense. Martini, Sommerville and Dortch, with some Ogbole, WILL outscore Cliff, Wolf and Ogbole production at the 5.....Also eliminating a poor offensive shooter from the perimeter in Mag, improvement is going to be quickly noticed.....

I'm very comfortable with Sommerville and his offense and shooting, it will be a night and day difference.....if we add Dortch to the 5, in terms of offense and weakside defense, wing defense, RU will be better as a team. It doesn't mean Cliff won't be successful at Bama, but RU has more options at the 5, which helps the team.

 

[wheezer]

This! Crazy athletic dunks but poor overall basketball skills.

IMO we lose little offensively, we shouldn't be looking at the slam dunks alone, the total picture

I can't even remember him hitting a real important late shot much in a game, the Penn State away game , the year before last, he actually did
Aside from that?

 

[BillyC80]

There is nothing wrong with the stats that can support whatever argument you want to make, but the post defense argument is obviously false.

If you have a clear and easy entry pass into the post, any reasonable big SHOULD score. 1 on 1 vs any other big......why??

Because if the opponent has capable shooting, a defense has to make a decision to leave Cliff 1 on 1 and surrender a 2 point shot OR, stay with their man and prevent a 3 point attempt.

So the individual stats are taken out of context on defense.

The defense that ultimately will make the difference this year, is Bryce Dortch at 6'10, Dylan Grant at 6'8, Sommerville at 6'10, Ogbole up front.....but that's not where we are better this year.

The issue is NOT the defense, it is what the poster breaks down about the offense. Martini, Sommerville and Dortch, with some Ogbole, WILL outscore Cliff, Wolf and Ogbole production at the 5.....Also eliminating a poor offensive shooter from the perimeter in Mag, improvement is going to be quickly noticed.....

I'm very comfortable with Sommerville and his offense and shooting, it will be a night and day difference.....if we add Dortch to the 5, in terms of offense and weakside defense, wing defense, RU will be better as a team. It doesn't mean Cliff won't be successful at Bama, but RU has more options at the 5, which helps the team.

If Pike is still looking to fill our 13th scholly with a center, I would love for RU to sign the kid from Serbia, Viktor Mikic.

At 6'11, he can dribble, pass, and shoot, and is adept at finishing around the rim with either hand. His highlight reel shows all of these offensive skills but unfortunately doesn’t show anything related to his defense.

He has good size, coordination and foot speed, so I assume he can learn to become at least an adequate defender under Pike.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

If Pike is still looking to fill our 13th scholly with a center, I would love for RU to sign the kid from Serbia, Viktor Mikic.

At 6'11, he can dribble, pass, and shoot, and is adept at finishing around the rim with either hand. His highlight reel shows all of these offensive skills but unfortunately doesn’t show anything related to his defense.

He has good size, coordination and foot speed, so I assume he can learn to become at least an adequate defender under Pike.

Whoever fills that spot isn’t likely to play much. Including that Serbian kid.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

There is nothing wrong with the stats that can support whatever argument you want to make, but the post defense argument is obviously false.

If you have a clear and easy entry pass into the post, any reasonable big SHOULD score. 1 on 1 vs any other big......why??

Because if the opponent has capable shooting, a defense has to make a decision to leave Cliff 1 on 1 and surrender a 2 point shot OR, stay with their man and prevent a 3 point attempt.

So the individual stats are taken out of context on defense.

The defense that ultimately will make the difference this year, is Bryce Dortch at 6'10, Dylan Grant at 6'8, Sommerville at 6'10, Ogbole up front.....but that's not where we are better this year.

Replacing Mag with Derkack.....having 6'9" Ace Bailey vs Hyatt.....Wolf was essentially the same size as Martini.....plus we add Dylan Harper at 6'6', with arm length.....Simpson, Fernandes were undersized and could not prevent clear and easy entry passes into the post.....the GUARD and WING length, is the biggest defensive improvement to help the post defense.

The issue is NOT the defense, it is what the poster breaks down about the offense. Martini, Sommerville and Dortch, with some Ogbole, WILL outscore Cliff, Wolf and Ogbole production at the 5.....Also eliminating a poor offensive shooter from the perimeter in Mag, improvement is going to be quickly noticed.....

I'm very comfortable with Sommerville and his offense and shooting, it will be a night and day difference.....if we add Dortch to the 5, in terms of offense and weakside defense, wing defense, RU will be better as a team. It doesn't mean Cliff won't be successful at Bama, but RU has more options at the 5, which helps the team.

How can you say with a straight face that your expecting +15 ppg from the center position? Come on. Points Martini scores at the 4 wouldn’t count as that would be double dipping. If he averages 10 ppg total and plays one third of his time at center that’d be only 3.3 ppg. Thats if he plays 10 min center. Dortch is like 200 lbs. he’s listed as 6-8. He’s not playing center. The thing is - if Martini actually gets 10 min at the 5 - Ogbole and Somerville are only playing 15 minutes each give or take. Whoever is on the court is going to be the last to to option on the court in terms of usage. 6 points each in 15 minutes would be insane. How many perimeter attempts per game do you really expect Somerville to get?

 

[RU205]

this was discussed many times last year. Offensively Cliff is not a back to the basket player. Getting the ball in the post was never part of his game and it was being forced last season. Cliff needs guards to get to the basket and lob the ball to him at the rim. He had that in previous years, especially with Mulcahy. This years team with Harper and Bailey would be perfect for him.

As for defense, the entry pass to the post was too easy without taller guards likes Mulcahy and McConnell. Also, often the guards were getting beat on defense forcing Cliff to leave his man to stop the ball. The opposing center was left along for easy layup or rebounds and put backs. It’s easy to look at 1 on 1 stats of a center vs center but that doesn’t give all of the information. Basketball is a team sport and the overall teams play impacts the individual stats.

Cliff would have a big year with this team and I think he will have a big year with Alabama. Alabama will not ask him to score or play with his back to the basket.

 

[littlenis5]

The thing with Cliff/lobs is that I don’t think he was very good at getting any separation in pick and roll. The reason it worked with Mulchahy is that he was big so he could get deep in the lane and flick a lob at the last second. With speedy guards he never created a lane for them to blow by and send an easy lob.

 

[seansherm]

The thing with Cliff/lobs is that I don’t think he was very good at getting any separation in pick and roll. The reason it worked with Mulchahy is that he was big so he could get deep in the lane and flick a lob at the last second. With speedy guards he never created a lane for them to blow by and send an easy lob.

We didn't have any guards that needed to be stuck to on the PnR because none of them could shoot from the outside. Teams didn't have to switch, they could stay lowside on Cliff and guard against the guard drive.

 

[RU205]

The thing with Cliff/lobs is that I don’t think he was very good at getting any separation in pick and roll. The reason it worked with Mulchahy is that he was big so he could get deep in the lane and flick a lob at the last second. With speedy guards he never created a lane for them to blow by and send an easy lob.

True. Mulcahys 6-7 and when he was in the lane against a smaller guard the center would come off of Cliff to try and block the shot leaving Cliff open. The lob was open.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Some of you really amaze me. Cliff averaged 10.4 ppg on 26.9 min with a high usage rate in our offense last season. The center position is almost certain to be the lowest proactive usage position on the court this season. We’re not going to be designing plays to find Somerville the way we did Cliff. That’s a virtual guarantee. The bulk of the center scoring would likely come off of put backs and maybe a back door cut once or twice a game. Ogbole showed some potential on the offensive glass. Perhaps he can quietly put up some points that way but again - we’d need to see improvement with his hands. Significant improvement. The scouting report on Somerville doesn’t at this point project him to be a strong frosh rebounder. Maybe we will be pleasantly surprised but I don’t see why anyone would assume this. Pike is basically saying his upside is being able to hit an occasional outside shot and find others on the court. Thats not exactly a forecast for big time scoring output from a center on a team with two top 3 recruits.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I want to add that I don’t mean my post as a negative spin on the season outlook.

Perspective is needed here. Only 8 NCAA D1 teams averaged 84 or more points per game last season. If we’re getting 16 ppg from our center and that’s our lowest usage / production that means we’re scoring a minimum of 84 points even at that - it would mean we’re still getting similar production from center relative to 1-4 (assume 16 points from center and 17 from each of the other 4 positions).

 

[seansherm]

I want to add that I don’t mean my post as a negative spin on the season outlook.

Perspective is needed here. Only 8 NCAA D1 teams averaged 84 or more points per game last season. If we’re getting 16 ppg from our center and that’s our lowest usage / production that means we’re scoring a minimum of 84 points even at that - it would mean we’re still getting similar production from center relative to 1-4 (assume 16 points from center and 17 from each of the other 4 positions).

I'd be hoping for 9-10 a game from the Ogbole/Lathan combination.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I'd be hoping for 9-10 a game from the Ogbole/Lathan combination.

Right exactly. That’s why I said Hawk’s prediction that we’re going to get more offense from the 5 this season than we did last year - prediction +15 ppg is just silly. We were trying to get the ball to the 5 last year. This year we won’t be doing that.

 

[seansherm]

Right exactly. That’s why I said Hawk’s prediction that we’re going to get more offense from the 5 this season than we did last year - prediction +15 ppg is just silly. We were trying to get the ball to the 5 last year. This year we won’t be doing that.

Hawk only dreams of offense, he thinks Lathan will be playing 30 and putting up big #'s, despite there already being hints around the program to limit expectations on him. Hawk had last years mess scoring almost 80 pre season.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Hawk only dreams of offense, he thinks Lathan will be playing 30 and putting up big #'s, despite there already being hints around the program to limit expectations on him. Hawk had last years mess scoring almost 80 pre season.

I know. I don’t get it. If Lathan gets enough opportunities to put up big numbers that’s probably not a good thing for us.

 

[lion1983]

I know. I don’t get it. If Lathan gets enough opportunities to put up big numbers that’s probably not a good thing for us.

FYI, RU's Center position last season averaged 13.8 ppg, not 15+.

And I think you will see that I agree it will likely be lower this coming season. I peg Ogbole at 4 ppg in 15 mpg, and maybe 6 ppg from Somerville in 20+ mpg. Plus a few points allocated to the 3-5 mpg Martini might play at the 5. That is about 10-11 ppg.

 

[Good-Knight]

I feel like he has the lowest upside against the top B1G centers but on most nights Martini is our best dependable option to beat low to middle teams. That said, I really like 'Villes energy and could see how that might shape the team's personality. That said, Pike will lean toward Ogbole who has plenty of upside on his own. I like this field vs Cliff. I see Cliff's intensity on the decline. Maybe the new scenery will give him a boost, but Cliff dropping another notch would be put us in a worse situation than the one we're looking at. My key stat is Conversion of High Quality Assists. I see our rate improving greatly.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

FYI, RU's Center position last season averaged 13.8 ppg, not 15+.

And I think you will see that I agree it will likely be lower this coming season. I peg Ogbole at 4 ppg in 15 mpg, and maybe 6 ppg from Somerville in 20+ mpg. Plus a few points allocated to the 3-5 mpg Martini might play at the 5. That is about 10-11 ppg.

Yeah - I was just doing what he was doing except accounting for the fact that Martini’s points at the 4 clearly could not be included since he will primarily play the 4.

Hawk just named a bunch of guys that will play center and predicted that the average production from them as centers will be more than what we got from our centers last year.

10.4 for Cliff. 3.3 for Wolf. 2.1 for Ogbole. I get that the blended math is lower but regardless - the +/- on total per minute production from the center is probably about 9 in my opinion. I don’t think we’re going to be looking to score that way and I don’t think Somerville will be taking that many 3s.