OT: Bitcoin, Altcoins, NFT's & All Things Crypto

[bob-loblaw]

Gold has the advantage of being money for most of human history, of course, and the fact that new gold is mined isn’t really an issue as the rate of growth in reserves has trailed growth in the global economy. It’s not. Bad thing to have a little more money added to the system over time as the system grows.

And, my question wasn’t so much whether you did a gut check but more how you did it. To return to my prior example, the market for the bond I held just kept dropping like a rock. I couldn’t understand why, and couldn’t find any good explanation that refuted my thesis. I analyzed the business, senstized how bad performance would get and not even draconian a scenarios led to a bankruptcy.

is there some way to do something similar for crypto, or is it a belief that it will work out? That’s what I’m asking.

I made the gold example as a comparison in scarcity. There is no set amount of gold. btc is a hard coded cap that cannot be manipulated or "discovered"

The gut check was done, well... using my gut. Bitcoin has multiple on chain tools you can use to form an opinion. I highly recommend you follow Glassnode if you are interested in learning more. These are not finite prediction tools. There essentially tools to show you what people who hold btc are doing; what their behavior is, are they selling, buying. What are long term hodlers doing? Are coins being moved off exchanges and into cold storage? What are whales accumulating? Long and short of it, user activity gives you a great blueprint to what could be leading indicators price-wise.

But to me, I still follow my gut. We're heading more towards a cashless society. And adoption from youth into crypto is high. The demand for lightning payments will grow, as retailers see the cost savings of using btc as a payment rail network. So to answer, I've read nothing that has made me waver in my opinion that btc is the future.

The last few mos have been painful, but it was needed to flush stupidity out of the system. Unfort., it's not the end. There will be more casualties. Greed and stupidity drove the price to where it is., and they'll probably drive it lower. But the resolve remains the same.

 

[mdk01]

I made the gold example as a comparison in scarcity. There is no set amount of gold. btc is a hard coded cap that cannot be manipulated or "discovered"

The gut check was done, well... using my gut. Bitcoin has multiple on chain tools you can use to form an opinion. I highly recommend you follow Glassnode if you are interested in learning more. These are not finite prediction tools. There essentially tools to show you what people who hold btc are doing; what their behavior is, are they selling, buying. What are long term hodlers doing? Are coins being moved off exchanges and into cold storage? What are whales accumulating? Long and short of it, user activity gives you a great blueprint to what could be leading indicators price-wise.

But to me, I still follow my gut. We're heading more towards a cashless society. And adoption from youth into crypto is high. The demand for lightning payments will grow, as retailers see the cost savings of using btc as a payment rail network. So to answer, I've read nothing that has made me waver in my opinion that btc is the future.

The last few mos have been painful, but it was needed to flush stupidity out of the system. Unfort., it's not the end. There will be more casualties. Greed and stupidity drove the price to where it is., and they'll probably drive it lower. But the resolve remains the same.

Gold also has the advantage of industrial and electronic uses.

 

[iReC89]

What are you gonna tell us next, that abstract and stencil art that sells for millions isn’t real art and your friend is gonna make millions flinging paint on canvas?

Maybe you’re the sarcastic one?

The daughters project has had millions in sales. No plan to make big money on the HS project. It's more of a technology demonstration project to me, but could actually make money. I'm just not sure its a good idea. Off chain NFT's don't make a lot of sense to me in terms of having a secure perpetual asset. The art has to be hosted somewhere, and how many companies are going to keep that up a decade or two after they've cashed out?

 

[Rutgers Chris]

My buddy just recently bought a zoo in the Midwest. He paid way less for real living primates than one BAYC. There is zero barrier to BAYC entry. Not only that, you don’t think the Mutant Ape Yacht Club is just the tip of the iceberg? The market will be flooded. And you don’t think that people using the BAYC for their social media profiles will get “bored” and move on eventually? NFTs that are not tied to something physical or real benefits will disappear in short time. For instance, if I bought a Porsche and got a special NFT for my individual car I think it would be awesome. Would likely enhance the value of my car. But would I want a digital image of a Porsche to, ummm, look at on my computer or post on social media…? Nope!

There are already hundreds of ape derivatives, that part of your thesis has happened with little effect on BAYC. A not so subtle example- https://magiceden.io/marketplace/nba. Also, Mutant Apes were released by BAYC and were a huge monetary benefit to their holders (worth at one point over $100k), so not really a negative in this case.

People in the NFT space get bored very, very easily. #'s 2-100 on this list are constantly changing. No one has been able to dethrone them and I'm not sure its been close. https://www.nftinspect.xyz/rank/collections

Agreed on the utility comment. You may not agree, I may not agree, but someone valued Yuga at $4billion and agreed to give them the money to build with, so there must be some path to utility and continued profitability there.

 

[RUAldo]

I see a NFT world like my Porsche example where ownership meets brand marketing meets utility. You buy a Rolex and receive a NFT with it. And you take that Rolex into the metaverse with you. Sell the Rolex on the secondary market and the NFT transfers with it. Proves ownership, ensures it’s not a fake, drives brand loyalty, gives you special privileges, etc. I just can’t imagine people caring about a digital image essentially tied to nothing, especially when hundreds of BAYC turns into thousands and then millions. But anyway, I admit I’ve beaten this horse into oblivion.

 

[RUBlackout7]

I see a NFT world like my Porsche example where ownership meets brand marketing meets utility. You buy a Rolex and receive a NFT with it. And you take that Rolex into the metaverse with you. Sell the Rolex on the secondary market and the NFT transfers with it. Proves ownership, ensures it’s not a fake, drives brand loyalty, gives you special privileges, etc. I just can’t imagine people caring about a digital image essentially tied to nothing, especially when hundreds of BAYC turns into thousands and then millions. But anyway, I admit I’ve beaten this horse into oblivion.

You keep saying BAYC is tied to nothing, which is far from the truth. They are also not going to turn into millions of NFTs. Sorry but you don’t know what you’re talking about, please stop.

 

[bob-loblaw]

I see a NFT world like my Porsche example where ownership meets brand marketing meets utility. You buy a Rolex and receive a NFT with it. And you take that Rolex into the metaverse with you. Sell the Rolex on the secondary market and the NFT transfers with it. Proves ownership, ensures it’s not a fake, drives brand loyalty, gives you special privileges, etc. I just can’t imagine people caring about a digital image essentially tied to nothing, especially when hundreds of BAYC turns into thousands and then millions. But anyway, I admit I’ve beaten this horse into oblivion.

This, along with event ticketing are the easiest two NFT use cases to visualize in the physical space.
Youre injecting personal bias into the equation when you talk about not imagining people caring. And this is coming from someone who doesnt really are about nfts

 

[RUAldo]

You keep saying BAYC is tied to nothing, which is far from the truth. They are also not going to turn into millions of NFTs. Sorry but you don’t know what you’re talking about, please stop.

OK, so please educate us on some happenings at the BAYC online club and/or some feedback from a recent event. Because from what I understand that’s all you get other than some loose IP rights to the image. This is a great article BTW and really well written. Whether you agree with me or not it’s worth the read:

How to sneak into a Bored Ape Yacht Club party

It turns out you don’t really need a Bored Ape NFT.

www.theverge.com

 

[RUAldo]

This, along with event ticketing are the easiest two NFT use cases to visualize in the physical space.
Youre injecting personal bias into the equation when you talk about not imagining people caring. And this is coming from someone who doesnt really are about nfts

Totally agree on event ticketing. But obviously it all depends on the events to which you are granted access. Check out the article I just posted. That BAYC scene is a joke. Basically a sausage-fest networking event.

 

[Frida's Boss]

I made the gold example as a comparison in scarcity. There is no set amount of gold. btc is a hard coded cap that cannot be manipulated or "discovered"

The gut check was done, well... using my gut. Bitcoin has multiple on chain tools you can use to form an opinion. I highly recommend you follow Glassnode if you are interested in learning more. These are not finite prediction tools. There essentially tools to show you what people who hold btc are doing; what their behavior is, are they selling, buying. What are long term hodlers doing? Are coins being moved off exchanges and into cold storage? What are whales accumulating? Long and short of it, user activity gives you a great blueprint to what could be leading indicators price-wise.

But to me, I still follow my gut. We're heading more towards a cashless society. And adoption from youth into crypto is high. The demand for lightning payments will grow, as retailers see the cost savings of using btc as a payment rail network. So to answer, I've read nothing that has made me waver in my opinion that btc is the future.

The last few mos have been painful, but it was needed to flush stupidity out of the system. Unfort., it's not the end. There will be more casualties. Greed and stupidity drove the price to where it is., and they'll probably drive it lower. But the resolve remains the same.

Thanks for your response,

I‘ve never allocated my savings to an asset where ive been unable to objectively determine its value independent of a quoted market price, so allocating money to something like BTC is not something I’d ever consider or need to consider as my aforementioned method of capital allocation has served me well.

That said, I want to make sure I understand you’re response, so I’ll try to restate it in terms I understand. There is no evidence or analysis that gives you comfort that a 70% decline in the quoted price of an asset at a time that fiat currency is experiencing exactly the issues that, at least partially, initially drew you to the space supports your beleif (belief being the correct word). You have a gut feeling (indeed, a very strong gut feeling) that BTC will increase in price because younger people like it. A cash less society, which doesn’t mean a dollar doesn’t exist, just not in paper form, is bullish for BTC. This is a gut instinct bet. And if you want to know what other bettors are thinking, there is a place to look where you can discern their intentions that might provide a clue to near term price movements.

Again, thank you. Personally I think people can invest in items where objective evidence can be obtained, and they can accumulate lots of wealth by so doing, BTC is not something that I understand, and don’t need to understand. I’d worry that if one day I could not trade it, there is no way to figure out what its worth because, today, as best as I can tell, it has no practical use,

 

[Rutgers Chris]

OK, so please educate us on some happenings at the BAYC online club and/or some feedback from a recent event. Because from what I understand that’s all you get other than some loose IP rights to the image. This is a great article BTW and really well written. Whether you agree with me or not it’s worth the read:

How to sneak into a Bored Ape Yacht Club party

It turns out you don’t really need a Bored Ape NFT.

www.theverge.com

The party sounds like a douche fest. Agree there. Something you’re clearly missing from your previous post (noting that Mutant Apes were somehow a risk/negative to Bored Apes), are the benefits that BAYC holders have already accessed. They’ve essentially been given a Mutant Ape (value $40-120k) and a Bored Ape Kennel Club (value $6-20k) for free. They are key holders to whatever a $4billion NFT company decides to do next. Again, we all get that you don’t get it or agree with it, but I sure wish I was lucky enough to invest $180 in a Bored Ape a year ago to make a few hundred thousand in a year, regardless of their staying power.

 

[RUAldo]

They’ve essentially been given a Mutant Ape (value $40-120k) and a Bored Ape Kennel Club (value $6-20k) for free. They are key holders to whatever a $4billion NFT company decides to do next.

I’m glad you made this point - now what does it actually mean. Help me, help everyone, understand. What do you think the “key holders to whatever” actually get? You seem to think a BAYC is a fractional ownership share in Yuga Labs. This may put our entire debate to rest. Beyond paying X to be the custodian of a digital image (depending on the IP rights), what does the “whatever” mean?

 

[Rutgers Chris]

I’m glad you made this point - now what does it actually mean. Help me, help everyone, understand. What do you think the “key holders to whatever” actually get? You seem to think a BAYC is a fractional ownership share in Yuga Labs. This may put our entire debate to rest. Beyond paying X to be the custodian of a digital image (depending on the IP rights), what does the “whatever” mean?

There we go, let’s put the debate to rest then. That is exactly what I mean and exactly what has happened up to this point. Holding a BAYC is in essence fractional ownership of Yuga. Yuga’s main revenue stream at the moment are royalties from BAYC sales. Their primary goal is to continue to offer value to their holders in order to maintain the price of the NFT to keep royalties flowing. It’s how every NFT project works. If the sales/royalties stop, it’s dead. Therefore they do things like releasing new collections (MAYC, BAKC, Apecoin, etc) that the owners get first access to. Owning a BAYC doesn’t get you profit share from Yuga (though many NFT projects now do offer that), but it puts you first in line to any future project which at this point has returned holders six figures on top of what the actual ape is worth. Make sense now?

 

[mdk01]

There we go, let’s put the debate to rest then. That is exactly what I mean and exactly what has happened up to this point. Holding a BAYC is in essence fractional ownership of Yuga. Yuga’s main revenue stream at the moment are royalties from BAYC sales. Their primary goal is to continue to offer value to their holders in order to maintain the price of the NFT to keep royalties flowing. It’s how every NFT project works. If the sales/royalties stop, it’s dead. Therefore they do things like releasing new collections (MAYC, BAKC, Apecoin, etc) that the owners get first access to. Owning a BAYC doesn’t get you profit share from Yuga (though many NFT projects now do offer that), but it puts you first in line to any future project which at this point has returned holders six figures on top of what the actual ape is worth. Make sense now?

Sounds like a Ponzi scheme, which is great if you are in early.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Sounds like a Ponzi scheme, which is great if you are in early.

Great point and one I meant to mention. If you’re a new project who is about to mint (release their nft), who do you want on board to buy? BAYC holders, cryptopunks, etc. So these holders are given first access (whitelist spots) to projects outside of Yuga labs as well. They therefore have a much higher likelihood of being first in vs last out on the next big thing.

And again, this is all talking about the brand side of NFT’s. Through Yuga they are attempting to offer utility. There is a wild and wonderful world of less ponzi-esque utility projects, buy I’m trying to stay on topic.

 

[bob-loblaw]

Thanks for your response,

I‘ve never allocated my savings to an asset where ive been unable to objectively determine its value independent of a quoted market price, so allocating money to something like BTC is not something I’d ever consider or need to consider as my aforementioned method of capital allocation has served me well.

That said, I want to make sure I understand you’re response, so I’ll try to restate it in terms I understand. There is no evidence or analysis that gives you comfort that a 70% decline in the quoted price of an asset at a time that fiat currency is experiencing exactly the issues that, at least partially, initially drew you to the space supports your beleif (belief being the correct word). You have a gut feeling (indeed, a very strong gut feeling) that BTC will increase in price because younger people like it. A cash less society, which doesn’t mean a dollar doesn’t exist, just not in paper form, is bullish for BTC. This is a gut instinct bet. And if you want to know what other bettors are thinking, there is a place to look where you can discern their intentions that might provide a clue to near term price movements.

Again, thank you. Personally I think people can invest in items where objective evidence can be obtained, and they can accumulate lots of wealth by so doing, BTC is not something that I understand, and don’t need to understand. I’d worry that if one day I could not trade it, there is no way to figure out what its worth because, today, as best as I can tell, it has no practical use,

It's not just a gut feeling. It will see adoption. The numbers and YoY growth in wallet addresses and usage clearly suggest this. The money coming into the space for development also further this. Amazon, Apple, Walmart, in the last 6 - 12 mos all started up "alternative payment" departments.

Once retail learns that you can use the Bitcoin network to save credit card fees, watch what will happen. Again, not using the asset btc to purchase things; simply using the Bitcoin network as a method of instant cash remittance. Im not of the ilk of btc to the moon. Yes, I have strong conviction it'll be 1mm befor the decades end, but the use case as a payment network is what genuinely excites me. Seeing what Dorsey does w Block is exciting. Again, I do not have a financial background. My bg is in tech. I see this technology as potentially life changing for people

 

[Barnaby&Neill]

It's not just a gut feeling. It will see adoption. The numbers and YoY growth in wallet addresses and usage clearly suggest this. The money coming into the space for development also further this. Amazon, Apple, Walmart, in the last 6 - 12 mos all started up "alternative payment" departments.

Once retail learns that you can use the Bitcoin network to save credit card fees, watch what will happen. Again, not using the asset btc to purchase things; simply using the Bitcoin network as a method of instant cash remittance. Im not of the ilk of btc to the moon. Yes, I have strong conviction it'll be 1mm befor the decades end, but the use case as a payment network is what genuinely excites me. Seeing what Dorsey does w Block is exciting. Again, I do not have a financial background. My bg is in tech. I see this technology as potentially life changing for people

I’m coming from a similar place as Frida’s Boss, and not trying to argue but to understand: if crypto sees greater use and adoption as a currency (if people are using it for payments), does that necessarily undermine the investment case?

When people feel the value of their currency is increasing and it will have more purchasing power in the future; they tend to save vs spend (deflationary cycles). Weakening a currency tends to lead to more spending.

In other words, if people are hopeful that they’ll make returns on bitcoin as an investment — they won’t use it (which in this case maybe makes the coin less valuable because it postpones development of practical application). If they’re using the coin, it’s probably not great to own as an investment because the price will be more stable and predictable.

I’m thinking blockchain services companies or something like that may be the best investment coming out of this vs coins themselves (just speculating without much knowledge of the technology)

 

[iReC89]

Once retail learns that you can use the Bitcoin network to save credit card fees, watch what will happen. Again, not using the asset btc to purchase things; simply using the Bitcoin network as a method of instant cash remittance.

What does that mean - if not using btc, what gets traded on the btc network?

The daily volatility of BTC is in the same range as fees. I don't see retailers being interested in accepting crypto risk until a really stable and boring option exists.

 

[RUAldo]

Once retail learns that you can use the Bitcoin network to save credit card fees, watch what will happen.

Retail will have a hard time accepting risk/volatility related to BTC. The biggest retail issue BTC folks overlook is that the fees they demonize aren’t just greedy banks lining their pockets = those fees support the infrastructure which validates transactions, authenticates the customer, fraud prevention, etc. Obviously, credit card companies and banks make money, but the fees are not an unjustified windfall. I used AMEX because I never have to worry about being made whole. And, as someone else noted, when the day comes that BTC is used for transactions then the entire investment thesis goes out the window.

 

[bob-loblaw]

I’m coming from a similar place as Frida’s Boss, and not trying to argue but to understand: if crypto sees greater use and adoption as a currency (if people are using it for payments), does that necessarily undermine the investment case?

When people feel the value of their currency is increasing and it will have more purchasing power in the future; they tend to save vs spend (deflationary cycles). Weakening a currency tends to lead to more spending.

In other words, if people are hopeful that they’ll make returns on bitcoin as an investment — they won’t use it (which in this case maybe makes the coin less valuable because it postpones development of practical application). If they’re using the coin, it’s probably not great to own as an investment because the price will be more stable and predictable.

I’m thinking blockchain services companies or something like that may be the best investment coming out of this vs coins themselves (just speculating without much knowledge of the technology)

What does that mean - if not using btc, what gets traded on the btc network?

The daily volatility of BTC is in the same range as fees. I don't see retailers being interested in accepting crypto risk until a really stable and boring option exists.

Retail will have a hard time accepting risk/volatility related to BTC. The biggest retail issue BTC folks overlook is that the fees they demonize aren’t just greedy banks lining their pockets = those fees support the infrastructure which validates transactions, authenticates the customer, fraud prevention, etc. Obviously, credit card companies and banks make money, but the fees are not an unjustified windfall. I used AMEX because I never have to worry about being made whole. And, as someone else noted, when the day comes that BTC is used for transactions then the entire investment thesis goes out the window.

You need to separate the asset from the network. They're both named Bitcoin so it can be confusing. You have the underlying asset btc, currently at 21.5k. It's what's talked about 99% of the time. Underneath that, you khave the Bitcoin network; the underlying blockchain. That's what I'm talking about.

On top of the network lies the lightning network, which allows for real-time transactions with people never actually holding btc.

Here's how: I open Cash App or a different payment app on my phone. I scan a QR code to send Starbuck $7 for my latte. My dollars (in real-time) are converted to btc, send across the Bitcoin network to the retailer and converted back to dollars. The dollars hit their wallet in real time. No waiting; maybe a penny in fees. It's also an open network, allowing Apple Pay, Google or even something random like Dunkin Dollars to plug into the network. Instantaneously, the $.25 cc transaction fee and the 2.9% fee are gone. The retailer or the purchaser never see btc or know it is being used. Of course the retailer could accept payment in btc if they so choose.

Again, they never deal with the volatility. And the near zero fee is possible because youre using the Bitcoin network, secured by the intense computing power of the network.

The investment never gets tossed, only grows as scarcity increases.

 

[RUBlackout7]

Sounds like a Ponzi scheme, which is great if you are in early.

No, it’s nothing like a Ponzi scheme. Did you even read the post? Is closest to being a shareholder of a company.

 

[RUAldo]

You need to separate the asset from the network. They're both named Bitcoin so it can be confusing. You have the underlying asset btc, currently at 21.5k. It's what's talked about 99% of the time. Underneath that, you khave the Bitcoin network; the underlying blockchain. That's what I'm talking about.

On top of the network lies the lightning network, which allows for real-time transactions with people never actually holding btc.

Here's how: I open Cash App or a different payment app on my phone. I scan a QR code to send Starbuck $7 for my latte. My dollars (in real-time) are converted to btc, send across the Bitcoin network to the retailer and converted back to dollars. The dollars hit their wallet in real time. No waiting; maybe a penny in fees. It's also an open network, allowing Apple Pay, Google or even something random like Dunkin Dollars to plug into the network. Instantaneously, the $.25 cc transaction fee and the 2.9% fee are gone. The retailer or the purchaser never see btc or know it is being used. Of course the retailer could accept payment in btc if they so choose.

Again, they never deal with the volatility. And the near zero fee is possible because youre using the Bitcoin network, secured by the intense computing power of the network.

The investment never gets tossed, only grows as scarcity increases.

So I’m glad you draw the distinction between the asset and the network. And what I would tell you is no different than what I’ve said from the beginning. Obviously, this is a complicated discussion - but long story short is that you do not need BTC the asset in order to implement a new transactional blockchain ecosystem. Miners, stakers, clusters, validators, etc. = all unnecessary and runs contrary to the goal of driving efficiency and lowering costs, especially when talking about BTC to dollar conversions. Which is why I’m convinced the digital dollar and an enhanced centralized network is where we land in the future. Re: transaction costs, they have plummeted in the last 10 years due to tech advances - just look at the banks, processors, etc.

 

[Frida's Boss]

You need to separate the asset from the network. They're both named Bitcoin so it can be confusing. You have the underlying asset btc, currently at 21.5k. It's what's talked about 99% of the time. Underneath that, you khave the Bitcoin network; the underlying blockchain. That's what I'm talking about.

On top of the network lies the lightning network, which allows for real-time transactions with people never actually holding btc.

Here's how: I open Cash App or a different payment app on my phone. I scan a QR code to send Starbuck $7 for my latte. My dollars (in real-time) are converted to btc, send across the Bitcoin network to the retailer and converted back to dollars. The dollars hit their wallet in real time. No waiting; maybe a penny in fees. It's also an open network, allowing Apple Pay, Google or even something random like Dunkin Dollars to plug into the network. Instantaneously, the $.25 cc transaction fee and the 2.9% fee are gone. The retailer or the purchaser never see btc or know it is being used. Of course the retailer could accept payment in btc if they so choose.

Again, they never deal with the volatility. And the near zero fee is possible because youre using the Bitcoin network, secured by the intense computing power of the network.

The investment never gets tossed, only grows as scarcity increases.

Why is BTC, the asset in your example, needed in your hypothetical transaction? While volatility in that specific transaction over a minute time frame may be limited, someone has to absorb the volatility of BTC on a day to day basis if you are receiving dollars and delivering dollars but for a different amount of BTC. Shoot, look at this weekend. BTC went from $18k to $20k plus.

 

[bob-loblaw]

Why is BTC, the asset in your example, needed in your hypothetical transaction? While volatility in that specific transaction over a minute time frame may be limited, someone has to absorb the volatility of BTC on a day to day basis if you are receiving dollars and delivering dollars but for a different amount of BTC. Shoot, look at this weekend. BTC went from $18k to $20k plus.

Its real time, not minutes. Do not mistake layer 1 blocktimes and transactions for layer 2. In theory, you could move dollars and convert them to a foreign currency in seconds. Think the time it takes a user to use Apple Pay to pay for coffee or any other transactions.

btc is the asset used as vessel to transport currency around the world in seconds

 

[bob-loblaw]

So I’m glad you draw the distinction between the asset and the network. And what I would tell you is no different than what I’ve said from the beginning. Obviously, this is a complicated discussion - but long story short is that you do not need BTC the asset in order to implement a new transactional blockchain ecosystem. Miners, stakers, clusters, validators, etc. = all unnecessary and runs contrary to the goal of driving efficiency and lowering costs, especially when talking about BTC to dollar conversions. Which is why I’m convinced the digital dollar and an enhanced centralized network is where we land in the future. Re: transaction costs, they have plummeted in the last 10 years due to tech advances - just look at the banks, processors, etc.

But they are needed for a decentralized blockchain. And how does it run contrary to lowering costs when consumers are able to move money for near zero cost? The miners are being rewarded for validating transactions in btc.

And yes, a digital dollar is forthcoming. I know I sure as shit do not want to live in a world where every last dollar I spent is accounted for and tracked.

 

[Frida's Boss]

Its real time, not minutes. Do not mistake layer 1 blocktimes and transactions for layer 2. In theory, you could move dollars and convert them to a foreign currency in seconds. Think the time it takes a user to use Apple Pay to pay for coffee or any other transactions.

btc is the asset used as vessel to transport currency around the world in seconds

Minute, as in, incredibly small, not minute as in 60 seconds.

Your response did not address the question, though. In your example, BTC the asset is an extra and unnecessary layer which adds day to day price volatility.

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

My buddy just recently bought a zoo in the Midwest. He paid way less for real living primates than one BAYC. There is zero barrier to BAYC entry. Not only that, you don’t think the Mutant Ape Yacht Club is just the tip of the iceberg? The market will be flooded. And you don’t think that people using the BAYC for their social media profiles will get “bored” and move on eventually? NFTs that are not tied to something physical or real benefits will disappear in short time. For instance, if I bought a Porsche and got a special NFT for my individual car I think it would be awesome. Would likely enhance the value of my car. But would I want a digital image of a Porsche to, ummm, look at on my computer or post on social media…? Nope!

Swatch watches, Jordache jeans, and beanie babies.

But, this is different 😅

they never learn, do they.

 

[bob-loblaw]

Swatch watches, Jordache jeans, and beanie babies.

But, this is different 😅

they never learn, do they.

A+ value added to the conversation. I'd say you won today. Make sure you tell your significant other that you won today's wit award on rutgersfan.

 

[ScarletNut]

Minute, as in, incredibly small, not minute as in 60 seconds.

Your response did not address the question, though. In your example, BTC the asset is an extra and unnecessary layer which adds day to day price volatility.

I’m not a techie but I look at it as BTC is like a ticket allowing you entrance to the ride (the blockchain).

 

[bob-loblaw]

Minute, as in, incredibly small, not minute as in 60 seconds.

Your response did not address the question, though. In your example, BTC the asset is an extra and unnecessary layer which adds day to day price volatility.

It's necessary on the Bitcoin network. It's what lives on the network to allow for cross border payments in real time. Its akin to trying to run an Androis app on iOS; it wont work. Sure someone could do replicate something similar, but it would be done with marginal hashpower and in turn zero security. And any volatility is mitigated by the near instant transaction.

 

[RUAldo]

But they are needed for a decentralized blockchain. And how does it run contrary to lowering costs when consumers are able to move money for near zero cost? The miners are being rewarded for validating transactions in btc.

And yes, a digital dollar is forthcoming. I know I sure as shit do not want to live in a world where every last dollar I spent is accounted for and tracked.

Like I’ve said before, ask 10 people, random or known, if they care about decentralization. I’ve done it many times with friends, family, co-workers, local small biz owners, etc. , young and old. Nobody knows what it is or what it means. Even more important, nobody cares. Banking/processing fees are the lowest in history. You may have been able to convince me 15 years ago when I was paying $5 at ATMs down the Jersey Shore for a cash withdrawal. I’m not even convinced it lowers costs rather than simply shifting costs. In the BTC ecosystem aren’t Traditional banking transaction costs replaced by mining energy and computing costs, which fluctuate way more than the standard fees merchants/consumers current deal with today?

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

A+ value added to the conversation. I'd say you won today. Make sure you tell your significant other that you won today's wit award on rutgersfan.

Lolz.yeah, I remember Beanie Baby guy trying hard to shitalk too.

 

[Frida's Boss]

I’m not a techie but I look at it as BTC is like a ticket allowing you entrance to the ride (the blockchain).

So BTC is pegged to a dollar, and the only way for BTC to trade to a higher price is if it depreciates against the dollar. Seems at odds with the narrative offered by some that it’s a store of value.

 

[Frida's Boss]

It's necessary on the Bitcoin network. It's what lives on the network to allow for cross border payments in real time. Its akin to trying to run an Androis app on iOS; it wont work. Sure someone could do replicate something similar, but it would be done with marginal hashpower and in turn zero security. And any volatility is mitigated by the near instant transaction.

I don’t see the volatility mitigated as you describe. The dollar price of your latte will still be $7 today, just as it was last Friday. But the conversion rate to BTC would have changed. That risk isn’t mitigated. Today, you’d need more BTC to purchase the same coffee versus last Friday.

 

[bob-loblaw]

Lolz.yeah, I remember Beanie Baby guy try hard to shitalk too.

No one's shit talking. I do see shitposting though...

 

[mdk01]

I don’t see the volatility mitigated as you describe. The dollar price of your latte will still be $7 today, just as it was last Friday. But the conversion rate to BTC would have changed. That risk isn’t mitigated. Today, you’d need more BTC to purchase the same coffee versus last Friday.

At BTC value about 90 days ago that latte cost $20.

 

[bob-loblaw]

I don’t see the volatility mitigated as you describe. The dollar price of your latte will still be $7 today, just as it was last Friday. But the conversion rate to BTC would have changed. That risk isn’t mitigated. Today, you’d need more BTC to purchase the same coffee versus last Friday.

The end user and retailer will never touch btc. Just as a venmo payment would go from me to you in a second, the same happens over lightning. btc is merely the vessel that is converted in realtime.

Its an open network, allowing anything to plug into it.

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

No one's shit talking. I do see shitposting though...

Don’t walk it back. You were clearly intentionally trying to be a smart ass.

 

[Frida's Boss]

The end user and retailer will never touch btc. Just as a venmo payment would go from me to you in a second, the same happens over lightning. btc is merely the vessel that is converted in realtime.

Its an open network, allowing anything to plug into it.

I understand that, but someone will have to bear the cost of fluctuating prices of BTC. There is no price stability day to day in BTC. Thus, the BTC price of that latte changes pretty dramatically, There is a cost to that, and someone in the process will have to absorb that cost. By your statement, the consumer and retailer are not bearing that risk. Well, someone will, and they will need to be compensated for it. Which probably means that these low costs might not be so low as you think.

 

[RUAldo]

I understand that, but someone will have to bear the cost of fluctuating prices of BTC. There is no price stability day to day in BTC. Thus, the BTC price of that latte changes pretty dramatically, There is a cost to that, and someone in the process will have to absorb that cost. By your statement, the consumer and retailer are not bearing that risk. Well, someone will, and they will need to be compensated for it. Which probably means that these low costs might not be so low as you think.

Btw, this is exactly what was/is happening in El Salvador. When BTC was sky high, nobody wanted to spend it. When it plummeted, nobody wanted to accept it. Risk constantly shifts back and forth, not to mention in the current environment with Whales able to manipulate price it becomes a retail casino.