It was a good post.
I scared my neighbor when I told them I was a heathen.
But I made up for it when I bought the kids Kosher ice cream.
And I overpaid when the kids had a lemonade stand
OT: Drawing on board expertise: Toms River for a retirement residence?
- Thread starter RUTBAY1
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I scared my neighbor when I told them I was a heathen.
But I made up for it when I bought the kids Kosher ice cream.
And I overpaid when the kids had a lemonade stand
Let me add that there are a fair number of Orthodox, especially Hasids, with big families and low income. (Today's ultraorthodox often tend not to have good secular educations and in any event think they should spend all their time studying religious law.) Many of those people (and those who run Orthodox institutions) are willing to "bend" secular laws to get governmental benefits. That is the primary source of the low-level white collar crime I mention.
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This is the law that drives all the cases
en.wikipedia.org
Religious Freedom Restoration Act - Wikipedia
Yes and no. The Act protects some religious activity against laws that are neutral on their fact -- that apply to everyone. As the article says, the Supreme Court has held that the Act cannot constitutionally apply to states, and therefore it does not apply to municipalities or other state subdivisions. It only applies to federal action. So, at present, a state law that is neutral on its face (e.g. no one can consume peyote) applies even to someone who says he is using peyote for religious reasons.This is the law that drives all the cases
Religious Freedom Restoration Act - Wikipedia
Some states have passed their own religious freedom restoration acts. New Jersey so far has not.
OTOH, the conservatives on the Supreme Court have made pretty clear that they intend to expand constitutional protections for religious conduct; these protections would apply to states and state subdivisions. We'll see.
For those who don't know, a Jewish group brought a suit saying that Indiana's near total ban on abortion infringes their freedom of religious because abortions are permitted under Jewish law under some circumstances. (BTW, the group is *not* Orthodox -- far from it.) Indiana is a state with a religious freedom restoration act. While the stories I've seen aren't explicit, the suit is apparently based on that statute. So even if the suit is successful, the ruling won't have impact here.
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LOL you are totally wrong. Orthodox folks move into a retirement community get on the board and all of a sudden there's new pool hours that exclude all men for hours during the day. True story...All the OP is looking for is a nice, reasonable place near the beach, and Tom’s River is as nice as any.
The theme of this thread seems to be don’t move to Tom’s River because of the Orthodox.
But I have yet to read a single tangible reason as to how the Orthodox will affect OPs quality of life should he choose to live in Toms River. I have yet to see a single Orthodox live in a retirement community, where op wants to live, because these aren’t places where the Orthodox can build their McMansions.
My friends live in the vicinity of Hooper Avenue in a retirement community, and enjoy a high quality of life, making frequent trips to Island Beach State Park, which might be the best beach in New Jersey.
I’ve grown up with Orthodox as neighbors, as my hometown neighborhood is walkable to the synagogue. My experience with them is that they are very shrewd, but fair, and are exceptional negotiators.
My neighbor, who was also a rabbi, did not pay property taxes because his was a religious house of instruction. But his presence attracted other orthodox families, who tore down the houses they bought, and in their place, built McMansions. So the property taxes for those lots went from roughly $10K to $30K. My hometown neighborhood block is filled with McMansions. In fact, after my mom sold, a McMansion was built in our lot. Our house had three bedrooms. Its replacement had 8.
So yes, while certain orthodox houses won’t pay property taxes, other orthodox houses more than make up for the difference. And from my experience, they were exemplary neighbors.
In any case, the average property tax bill in Toms River is 7,470, which is quite good for New Jersey.
OP should do his own due diligence.
New Jersey has the highest property tax rates in the country. Here's how much we pay
In Camden city the average property tax bill is $1,994. While in Millburn, the annual bill reached $24,947.www.app.com
Lakewood condo association's sex-segregated pool schedule ruled unlawful
Federal judge slams notion of "separate, but equal" policy.
www.app.com
I don't want any old man with a beard telling me how i will live my life.
It's almost like a RICO enterprise but all legal under the guise of religion so its hard to challenge and in some ways protected and co opted by laws that are designed to protect the religion but can't prevent the undesirable aspects that result form it.
We all agree people should be allowed to live where they want.
We all agree that there is nothing wrong with being involved with the governing of your community. Either by voting or running for office.
We all realize that people vote in a way they feel is in their best interest.
We all agree that religious freedom is an important aspect of American life
It appears when that actually happens it upsets people.
We all agree it's 10 yards and you have four plays to get it for a first down.
I think a few of the park laws that were called into account
What they do is pretty much the opposite side of what is illegal in real estate but has the same desired affect. They push people tge don’t want in a neighborhood out.
My neighbor will ultimately be 100% Orthodox. The people who have moved here has done absolutely nothing wrong.
The people selling have decided to move. Would it be different if the home was sold to Koreans, Nigerians or Indians?
NW...is that Six Flags? This is what has been relayed to me about Jackson too.
It is definitely funny when people say about the condition of homes- it very well could be true but if you go on Zillow the prices in Lakewood are absolutely wild and likely higher than the surrounding towns in many cases.
Western section is near Great Adventure.
Great Adventure runs from about 2-4 miles from the Freehold border on the north to about 4-5 miles from the southern border with New Egypt. It is on the western border.
Jackson is kind of a 10 by 10 mile square.
I added a map
en.wikipedia.org
Great Adventure runs from about 2-4 miles from the Freehold border on the north to about 4-5 miles from the southern border with New Egypt. It is on the western border.
Jackson is kind of a 10 by 10 mile square.
I added a map
Jackson Township, New Jersey - Wikipedia
Western section is near Great Adventure.
Great Adventure runs from about 2-4 miles from the Freehold border on the north to about 4-5 miles from the southern border with New Egypt. It is on the western border.
Jackson is kind of a 10 by 10 mile square.
I added a map
Jackson Township, New Jersey - Wikipedia
I figured this area would remain rural. It is very far from houses of worship.
Also this is quite close to Millstone (i think the ramp across 537 is technically there) and they will definitely fight any kind of intense development.
The line from the top left of the map is Route 537. It ends at Route 539
With all due respect, Tom, get back to me when you’re way of life and what you’re used to and everything you’ve worked for is completely turn upside down because these criminals are allowed to do as they please under the false guise of religion, with no regard for anybody else except themselves, to the detriment of everything and everyone around them
Has that happened in Tom’s River? Not to my knowledge. The notion that people should avoid Tom’s River because the Orthodox might move in and dominate the community is without merit. Orthodox Jews make up only a small percentage of Tom’s Rivers 95K residents.LOL you are totally wrong. Orthodox folks move into a retirement community get on the board and all of a sudden there's new pool hours that exclude all men for hours during the day. True story...
Lakewood condo association's sex-segregated pool schedule ruled unlawful
Federal judge slams notion of "separate, but equal" policy.www.app.com
I don't want any old man with a beard telling me how i will live my life.
Why would you refer to the 3 families who purchased homes by me as "these criminals". You stated you were Italian does everyone refer to you as a Mafioso?
Do you really believe that every Orthodox family is to be characterized the way you do?
I mentioned in an earlier post that I would not buy in a retirement community. The Orthodox clearly use the concept of voting to get what they want. In a HOA they will put rules that someone like me, a secular heathen, does not like. That said that is how HOAs work.
I think initially it would be different however once a high percentage of homes were owned by a specific non-white demographic the future sales would end up the same as the sales where Orthodox purchase.
I do not think the outrage would be the same but the results of who lives there would be.
As I have said a number of times- this is not a "Religious" thing- it is big dirty business that is using Religion as a weapon. And if any of the others you mentioned, used the same tactics that we are discussing, it would also be a big deal.
I personally have no problem with who the heck may move in next to me but if it is part of a "take over" then I do
But what I have is 3 families who came and purchased homes to live in. The one that rents has had good tenants and plans to ultimately live in the home.
As far as I am aware there has been no widespread block busting or any untoward actions by the Orthodox that purchased in Jackson. I am aware and have actually seen vile remarks about the Orthodox when they initially started to move here.
As far as I am aware there has been no widespread block busting or any untoward actions by the Orthodox that purchased in Jackson. I am aware and have actually seen vile remarks about the Orthodox when they initially started to move here.
Again, to compare Italians, Asians, Indians, or any other race to these people is an insult to that particular race.
None of them have the history, and documents at that, of doing what they have done to Lakewood and are attempting to do to the surrounding communities
I guarantee you will change your tune if Jackson turns into Lakewood
They’ve nearly outgrown Lakewood, and have started to spread out. Lakewood has made adjustments to continue building, but eventually that will not be enough as they all have multiple kids and plans to get bigger. Where do you think they will go once that happens?
This is what is confusing Tom- you arent helping.
We need to get past what religion they are- they are only using their religion as a weapon. Not all Orthodox are a part of these takeovers. Just like, not all Blacks are part of the BLM organization.
Not all Gays and or lesbians are part of some of the crazy agendas being pushed either.
I expect Jackson to be different than it currently is. But it is different to the people who lived here prior to 1995 and that change is due to the influx from North Jersey.
I treat people on their action not on my assumption that others did something so they will too.
I have seen no indication that my neighbors or any of the others have used their religion as a weapon but it seems the assumption is that they are.
If they get permits to build houses of worship would that be using their religion as a weapon?
That is already happening and has for 10 years. I do not have an issue with it apparently you do.
What exactly is wrong with Lakewood? The property values have increased at a greater rate than real estate overall. Building and businesses are growing.
Its crowded but so are a number of municipalities more crowded than they were 40 years ago.
I am starting to go on an assumption that Tom just happens to have a close interest within the group we are discussing 🧐. No need to respond to him any more...
You will if your entire neighborhood gets taken over
And you’re damn right I have a problem with it when people are weaponizing their religion and compromising other hard-working people quality of life due to for own selfish gains
Stop
What was once a thriving resort community or past president visited is now an overgrown shithole
Let me know next time you drive-through it - better yet don’t, because clearly you either have your head in the clouds or you have a vested interest in this particular group of bad apples
Yes, it would be
The purpose of a neighborhood is not to have synagogues and churches all over, it’s to have single-family dwellings.
You’re smarter than this Tom, so I don’t know if you have a vested interest in these guys comings & goings or are simply choosing to be a contrarian
Either way, you are dead wrong on this issue, as there tons of facts and data to back up my pointed assertions and absolutely nothing to back up your obtuse assumptions
Start with the school debt. Will be at $280 million if they receive what they are currently asking for. No chance its ever repaid. Is that part of a healthy township?
Lakewood Schools seek $104 million state loan to help balance 2024-2025 budget
Lakewood schools propose $309 million budget that would require new large state loan.
www.app.com
