You’re caught up in price when discussing block busting. Versus being driven from “desired” location.
OT: Drawing on board expertise: Toms River for a retirement residence?
- Thread starter RUTBAY1
- Start date
Give me an example where that is happening in Jackson. I have not seen or heard any instances
Stop. I’m done engaging with you. You say you live in town. The town has paid out multiple millions in legal fees and fines but no one is complaining or feeling they are being forced from their homes? Gotcha.
Tom - With all due respect, you are acting like a textbook troll and being disrespectful by ignoring other posters genuine concerns and experiences.
I would recommend taking a step back and try being more empathetic to others.
I never said no one is complaining
I said no one is saying they are subject of block busting. People don’t want the Orthodox to move here.
Thanks T. I do know you take empathy very seriously.
I am sorry that people do not want certain ethnicities to be able to buy homes in certain towns. I am sorry that even if people say but other people of that ethnicities did something years ago I just don’t assume other people did it without proof.
It happened in Lakewood
Brooklyn
Mahwah
Right over the border in NY
And is currently happening in Southern Howell - Candlewood to be exact
Stereotypes, whether they're right or wrong, are often earned
Anti-Sementism has no place in our society, but why do you think it was happening at the Jackson town board meetings? Do you think those people are real life skinheads who are out to do harm to Israel and anyone Jewish?
Smarten up
My God you're twisting this into something it's not and ignoring what it is
Nobody in their right mind cares if any particular ethnicity buys in a certain area - but if they're sole intention is taking over, that's a different story
And there's plenty of proof - we've provided it, you're ignoring it
“A” friend ? It’s happened to 100s in the North Dover section of Toms River. Largely spurred by large and illegal temples being opened and a community imploring their legions to become “shtickle pioneers” and start the process
Ignore what
I know that Jackson will become a predominantly Orthodox community.
That happened as soon as Orthodox families began to buy homes here and had their houses of worship built.
That is all they did. There was nothing nefarious.
Yes, it is nefarious
When your sole intention is taking over a town to suit your own needs and displacing thousands of others without an ounce of remorse for them, that’s the textbook definition
What they’re doing is immoral
Disgusting
And illegal
It’s one of the many, though certainly not the sole reasons, why Wel be out of NJ in the next 10 years
What you described is not right. But it’s very hard for me to reconcile your comments with my childhood experience. Plenty of NJ towns have Orthodox Jews who have successfully integrated in the respective communities. Im guessing these are different from the Hasidic who are in Lakewood. Teaneck for instance has a Muslim Mayor and significant Jewish population.
Here is a post from an orthodox on Reddit, describing where they locate.
Hey, modern orthodox jew here, I can list all of the main ones in tiers:
Large communities: Teaneck/Bergenfield, Deal/Oakhurst, Lakewood area, Highland Park/Edison, Passaic/Clifton
Mid sized: Fair lawn, Englewood, Linden, West Orange/Livingston, Elizabeth
Small Communities: Springfield, Hillside, Tenafly, Cherry Hill
There some others that are super small.
Some notes about the large communities - Teaneck and Highland Park is mostly modern orthodox, Deal is Syrian Jews, and Passaic is like an in between of Teaneck and Lakewood. Teaneck I think has the most kosher restaurants per square mile of any town in the country. Lmk if any questions. There's also some websites that can show all this info and more, but I don't really feel comfortable sharing them on reddit.
Tom- you are now being a clown. To turn a town into a predominate community of any race or “religion”- and again- I see these take overs as business, not Religion.,,but to do so- is planned and nefarious.
And, these “groups” doing this, have already been proven to be defrauding the government.
Your aim on this thread has become to either troll or you are in fact involved within the community as your way of expressing yourself is almost exactly the doubletalk you hear from them at town meetings.
They are buying homes, attending their places of worship and voting for politicians and policies they support.
How is that different than any other group?
They have done nothing to me personally even though I disagree with their political views and way of life.
I can live in Jackson forever if I choose to.
There will be stores that now cater to Jewish citizens. Not by government mandate but by market forces.
There will be synagogues where previously there were none.
I expect there to be zoning changes but I have seen zoning changes in every town I have ever lived. There is a process for that.
you are wasting your time here. Better off moving on and happy knowing that in the near future, it's someone else's concern
You'll see how nefarious it is when your school district has millions in debt and your taxes go up to pay it
I stopped reading when you’re comparing the Jewish people that live in Diehl to the ones that live in Lakewood
You’re right, and the fact that I actually wasted my time trying to explain basic concepts to what is otherwise a very good poster, not to mention the amount of brain cells of lost in the process, is staggering
^^^^^ I rest my case. Perfect troll response. Complete ignorance and lack of empathy.
And you referenced it
Trust me, man, this kind of stuff is going on widespread down here and it’s rampant
Nobody will call them out because they do not want to face the consequences
Truly sickening what these people are doing
Who will protect existing rules?
Not judges in New Jersey, especially if they take it to federal court.
Orthodox buys property on Church Road Toms River. Builds large home. Sues town when they expect him to pay taxes. Claims he has a Chabad house. Town loses in court. Scumbag gets out of paying property taxes on what is essentially his private domicile. That is wrong. Same with the other residences in Church Road area used by religious folks. Shouldn't the houses be taxed even if the church building is exempt?
Why don't churches pay property tax?
Surprised these laws that exempt religious buildings haven't been challenged lately.
Years ago, when the Lakewood issues were all over the news, it was reported that there were 97 properties in town exempt. Probably many more now. Legitimate religious schools, synagogues, churches...OK (but wrong)... but some rabbi declaring he is exempt at his own home is wrong. This was part of the abuse which feeds the antisemitism.
The big issue is that NJ's MLUL cites houses of worship as "inherently beneficial". This is truly an asinine rule that allows religious organizations to easily get around zoning laws and land use requirements.
I would like to see towns required to proactively ID certain land where houses of worship are allowed (with thresholds) and then be able to protect other zoned land (especially residential land).
Until this happens, towns just need to keep buying/preserving land.
I can only speak to the situation I actually knew about…
He lived on a big cul de sac. The moving in thing starts to happen. First two houses decide to sell and get their asking price. The rest are told this is it…take it or leave it. He wasn’t ready to go and had to wait. Everyone else sells and he is the last one on the block. Sabbath comes and no one can walk past his house because it’s not one of theirs. Rabbi comes and says, “I like you to put up a fence so my people can walk around the neighborhood.” Friend goes, “Sure, I’ll go to Home Depot, get the stuff and give you the bill now (the price he wanted for his house) and we’re good.” Rabbi says, “I’m not paying that.” Friend says, “No problem. No fence.”
He waited it out and ended up getting his price.
If they demand the existing zoning be changed, and sue the town if the town doesn't bend over, would you still be OK with this? That is what has happened in Toms River.
Many addresses in Toms River ARE NOT in Toms River Township. Many are in Manchester and Berkeley. For instance, homes in the Pine Lake Park section of Manchester have Toms River addresses. Most of the 55+ communities are not in Toms River Township. The many Holiday City communities off of Route 37 and the four Silver Ridge Park communities are in Berkeley, yet have Toms River Addresses. Additionally, some barrier island areas ARE part of Toms River Township (Ortley Beach and Dover Shores) but do not have Toms River addresses. The Township of Toms River was Dover Township for most of its existence.
@rutgersal raises a good question.
Whether he realized it or not (lol)…
Why just there (Lakewood, with the now spillover outwards)?
Bradley Beach has a community like this. Obviously not as big. Although large enough to have their own stuff like a flag football league for example. But we haven’t heard anything like this happening there.
The denials in this thread are puzzling. Anyone who follows the news in Lakewood or Jackson would find a list of how a certain group uses their religion as a tool in lawsuits fighting existing laws and rules. It's pure chicanery. No other group pulls this type of nonsense.
www.yahoo.com
lakewoodalerts.com
lakewoodalerts.com
news.yahoo.com
Jackson sued by Orthodox Jewish family over garage renovation denial
An Orthodox Jewish family alleges discrimination after Jackson denied their plans to renovate their garage and host prayer services there.
“SEE YOU IN COURT”: Jackson Township to Face Yet Another Federal Lawsuit Over Shul Denial
The township of Jackson is about to be slapped with yet another federal lawsuit alleging the violation of religious land use protections after the Zoning Board
lakewoodalerts.com
JUST IN: Jackson Township Signs Settlement with Jackson Trails Developer
The government of Jackson Township has signed a settlement with the builder of the proposed Jackson Trails development, a religious Jew who sued the town, claim
lakewoodalerts.com
Jackson sued over approval of Orthodox school campus
Bais Yaakov of Jackson won approval to build a three-school campus that would serve over 2,300 girls from the Jackson Orthodox Jewish community.
That is BS as you are taking someone that is taking an extreme view and not just a typical liberal point of view.
People sue all the time. People request zoning changes all the time.
What hurt Jackson was the public and private comments made by the politicians in town that new laws were being passed to directly impact the Orthodox.
If there is zoning that is not discriminatory, I am fine with it. As a heathen I would tax all religious institutions but the current federal laws and the rulings by the US Supreme Court favor religious institutions. You cannot allow Evangelicals and Catholics to build and then limit Hindus and Jews.
And there is public record that it has happened and those municipalities were sued and lost.
The Orthodox are the most republican group of any. Lakewood voted in the greatest percentage of anywhere in the US for the republican candidate in 2016 and 2020.
I never considered this some type of liberal issue.
I just dont see my 3 new neighbors and soon to be 2 more as part of a great conspiracy to take over Jackson. I see them as families who wanted to buy homes and so they did.
They will never vote or see things the way I do.
I find that interesting
The complaint comes more than eight months after the zoning board denied the Matzliachs' application, with board member James Hurley stating that the worship services went beyond the scope of typical in-home worship.
In the complaint, attorney Sieglinde Rath argues that the Matzliachs were only denied because the prayer services — which could include up to 25 people, excluding the family itself — were proposed by an Orthodox Jewish family.
More: 'Words can light fires that kill': Jewish leaders blast antisemitic rhetoric in Jackson
"If the Matzliachs' use of the garage involved nonreligious gatherings that were part of their daily home life, their zoning permit would not have been denied," Rath wrote in the complaint. "Such non-religious gatherings could include Boy Scout meetings, book clubs, barbecue parties or other similar activities that would not have been prohibited at a residential home."
Jackson Township Administrator Terence Wall did not immediately return a request for comment.
The new lawsuit comes just as Jackson has emerged from a nearly decade-long litigation, settling numerous lawsuits by plaintiffs — from an Orthodox Jewish school and advocacy group all the way to the U.S. Department of Justice — who said officials caved to an antisemitic animus and passed ordinances targeting the Orthodox community.
To settle those cases, the township agreed to pay over $5 million in damages, restitution and penalties.
More: 'Discriminatory and derogatory' public commentary led to Jackson lawsuits, attorney says.
The Matzliachs' complaint makes similar claims but only cites a single comment from the zoning hearing on their application. Instead, it cites a litany of public comments, emails and social media posts related to other issues, including the township council's Dec. 12 hearing on ordinances rewriting township code on new religious developments, a key part of the various settlements.
Who won the lawsuit Jackson or the plantiff?
The complaint comes more than eight months after the zoning board denied the Matzliachs' application, with board member James Hurley stating that the worship services went beyond the scope of typical in-home worship.
In the complaint, attorney Sieglinde Rath argues that the Matzliachs were only denied because the prayer services — which could include up to 25 people, excluding the family itself — were proposed by an Orthodox Jewish family.
More: 'Words can light fires that kill': Jewish leaders blast antisemitic rhetoric in Jackson
"If the Matzliachs' use of the garage involved nonreligious gatherings that were part of their daily home life, their zoning permit would not have been denied," Rath wrote in the complaint. "Such non-religious gatherings could include Boy Scout meetings, book clubs, barbecue parties or other similar activities that would not have been prohibited at a residential home."
Jackson Township Administrator Terence Wall did not immediately return a request for comment.
The new lawsuit comes just as Jackson has emerged from a nearly decade-long litigation, settling numerous lawsuits by plaintiffs — from an Orthodox Jewish school and advocacy group all the way to the U.S. Department of Justice — who said officials caved to an antisemitic animus and passed ordinances targeting the Orthodox community.
To settle those cases, the township agreed to pay over $5 million in damages, restitution and penalties.
More: 'Discriminatory and derogatory' public commentary led to Jackson lawsuits, attorney says.
The Matzliachs' complaint makes similar claims but only cites a single comment from the zoning hearing on their application. Instead, it cites a litany of public comments, emails and social media posts related to other issues, including the township council's Dec. 12 hearing on ordinances rewriting township code on new religious developments, a key part of the various settlements.
Who won the lawsuit Jackson or the plantiff?
It should be easy to show that the non-approvals were not based on religion then. The one article says non-Jewish people are suing because something was approved only because it was requested by Orthodox. Lets see how they do in court.The denials in this thread are puzzling. Anyone who follows the news in Lakewood or Jackson would find a list of how a certain group uses their religion as a tool in lawsuits fighting existing laws and rules. It's pure chicanery. No other group pulls this type of nonsense.
Jackson sued by Orthodox Jewish family over garage renovation denial
An Orthodox Jewish family alleges discrimination after Jackson denied their plans to renovate their garage and host prayer services there.
“SEE YOU IN COURT”: Jackson Township to Face Yet Another Federal Lawsuit Over Shul Denial
The township of Jackson is about to be slapped with yet another federal lawsuit alleging the violation of religious land use protections after the Zoning Board
JUST IN: Jackson Township Signs Settlement with Jackson Trails Developer
The government of Jackson Township has signed a settlement with the builder of the proposed Jackson Trails development, a religious Jew who sued the town, claim
Jackson sued over approval of Orthodox school campus
Bais Yaakov of Jackson won approval to build a three-school campus that would serve over 2,300 girls from the Jackson Orthodox Jewish community.
People sue all the time. If they have a case hopefully they win.
By the way the builder of my development also sued the town multiple times for denying his right to build. Jackson had been sued many times for stopping builders having nothing to do with the Orthodox. The majority of the time they lost.
See the Mitch Leigh property cases. I believe Sambol construction the owner of Metedaconk Golf club also had several law suits.
