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OT: Electric vehicles

It’s a good thing I’m not running it for it’s shareholders, sure. But it’s be an arguably better thing, at least in the short term, for me to be running it for it’s employees and some folks looking for work. And better for the economy since I wouldn’t be taking actions to exacerbate the very thing I disingenuously predicted as Musk has done. 😉

Anyway, on a less comic note, I would think it’s a little too early for other automakers to be significantly impacting Tesla. But who knows, you could be right and maybe Tesla is feeling the heat. For sure it’s heating up.

We can’t know the real reasons why Musk says the stuff he says, but like every other CEO out there, it’s a safe bet that the truth of what they say in public is often distantly secondary to other priorities which go unsaid.
And then of course Elon comes out and says that Tesla will increase staff overall but he says salaried workers will remain flat. Essentially total headcount will rise.

Elon just created volatility in everything. Smart guy but man what a headscratcher at all turns
 
The BOLT is back! Maybe..... We'll see how many they actually make. Reduced price too. GM is no longer eligible for the federal tax credit, but state incentives may apply.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/01/gm-...-bolt-evs-despite-rising-commodity-costs.html
Nice to see at least one automaker providing an affordable EV options. And not bad ranges:

The Bolt EV has a range of up to 259 miles on a full charge. The larger Bolt EUV has a range of 247 miles on a full charge.

Forgot about the sad history of the Bolt. Should come with a fire extinguisher option?

106907704-1625675106805-Chevy_Bolt_fire.jpg

The Vermont State Police released this photo of the 2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV that caught fire on July 1, 2021 in the driveway of state Rep. Timothy Briglin, a Democrat.

 
Nice to see at least one automaker providing an affordable EV options. And not bad ranges:

The Bolt EV has a range of up to 259 miles on a full charge. The larger Bolt EUV has a range of 247 miles on a full charge.

Forgot about the sad history of the Bolt. Should come with a fire extinguisher option?

106907704-1625675106805-Chevy_Bolt_fire.jpg

The Vermont State Police released this photo of the 2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV that caught fire on July 1, 2021 in the driveway of state Rep. Timothy Briglin, a Democrat.

Wasn't a good look for GM or EVs in general. EVs are still safer when it comes to fire risk compared to ICE despite the media hysteria.

I was surprised that GM is sticking with LG Chem's large pouch style cells for their packs. This type of form factor is the most prone to thermal runaway.

I hope GM sells millions of these but I'm still bearish on the company and their leadership. The Hummer EV remains a head scratcher to me, and I predict will go down as an epic fail. Less than 100 sales in Q1 2022. Why not electrify the Blazer instead? Direct competitor with the new Bronco. More practical/popular vehicle. Better use of precious battery packs. They wouldn't be able to make them fast enough.
 
Wasn't a good look for GM or EVs in general. EVs are still safer when it comes to fire risk compared to ICE despite the media hysteria.

I was surprised that GM is sticking with LG Chem's large pouch style cells for their packs. This type of form factor is the most prone to thermal runaway.

I hope GM sells millions of these but I'm still bearish on the company and their leadership. The Hummer EV remains a head scratcher to me, and I predict will go down as an epic fail. Less than 100 sales in Q1 2022. Why not electrify the Blazer instead? Direct competitor with the new Bronco. More practical/popular vehicle. Better use of precious battery packs. They wouldn't be able to make them fast enough.
It's a real problem for firefighters and posing new challenges. With every new technology (even beneficial ones), new problems and challenges are are created. Some scary stuff here in the video, and some tips for firefighters. We are used to usually just rolling up and putting out the fire,and containing any leaking gasoline/fuel if the fuel tank has been compromised. A normal bread and butter car fire is normally extinguished with less than 500 gallons, and sometimes less than 250 gallons of water carried on the fire engine. Now, some EV fires require 20-30,000 gallons of water. That poses a huge challenge on interstate highways that do not normally have an abundance of fire hydrants spaced closely like in residential and commercial areas. In addition, stranded energy in the batteries poses a grave risk of re-ignition.



"The quantity of water that was flowed through the two attack lines (both lines flowing initially, then one line continued to cool the battery) lasted for approximately 90 minutes. To suppress the fire, 20,000–23,000 gallons of water were used. "

 
It's a real problem for firefighters and posing new challenges. With every new technology (even beneficial ones), new problems and challenges are are created. Some scary stuff here in the video, and some tips for firefighters. We are used to usually just rolling up and putting out the fire,and containing any leaking gasoline/fuel if the fuel tank has been compromised. A normal bread and butter car fire is normally extinguished with less than 500 gallons, and sometimes less than 250 gallons of water carried on the fire engine. Now, some EV fires require 20-30,000 gallons of water. That poses a huge challenge on interstate highways that do not normally have an abundance of fire hydrants spaced closely like in residential and commercial areas. In addition, stranded energy in the batteries poses a grave risk of re-ignition.



"The quantity of water that was flowed through the two attack lines (both lines flowing initially, then one line continued to cool the battery) lasted for approximately 90 minutes. To suppress the fire, 20,000–23,000 gallons of water were used. "

These types of fires (battery pack) are extremely rare. It takes a lot to damage and ignite a battery pack. EV fires (especially Teslas) have become global news events. There are 100s of car fires everyday in the US, but a Buick or Honda catching fire isn't newsworthy. One needs to consider possibility vs probability. I have a greater chance of being struck by lightning than being in a battery fire with my model 3.
 
Anyone have an Audi Q4 e-tron? Anyone know if it’s eligible for a NJ rebate?
Don't know about the NJ rebate, but my 2 cents is there are much better options for a compact/midsize electric SUV. Have you looked into the Ioniq 5, Mach E, or Model Y?

Q4 is heavy beast with ho-hum performance. Larger than average size battery pack yet low range. Audi needs to work on their EV efficiency big time. Not great with fast charging either. If you're married to Audi, I'd wait for their 2nd/3rd generation.
 
Don't know about the NJ rebate, but my 2 cents is there are much better options for a compact/midsize electric SUV. Have you looked into the Ioniq 5, Mach E, or Model Y?

Q4 is heavy beast with ho-hum performance. Larger than average size battery pack yet low range. Audi needs to work on their EV efficiency big time. Not great with fast charging either. If you're married to Audi, I'd wait for their 2nd/3rd generation.
Good to know. I like the styling of the q4 and the range is pretty good, but maybe it makes sense for the next gen. Will be in the market for a new car next year and plan on switching over to an EV. Will look at those others….don’t love Teslas
 
Genesis GV60 is worth a look, if you can find one. Hyundai fast-chargimg in a nicer luxury format.

Super limited launch, NJ one of only 4 states, but assume they'll be more widely available next year.
 

I Rented an Electric Car for a Four-Day Road Trip. I Spent More Time Charging It Than I Did Sleeping.




 
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I Rented an Electric Car for a Four-Day Road Trip. I Spent More Time Charging It Than I Did Sleeping.




The truth about all of this is slowly coming out.
 
Obviously there are growing pains as any reasonable person would have expected. When gas-powered cars first came out, there wasn't a gas station on every street either. Eventually there will be enough charging stations that you won't have to worry about finding one, they will charge faster, and we won't have to rely on a global commodity that results in us paying a hell of a lot more due to events happening in a completely different part of the world. Seems bizarre that there are people actively rooting against technological improvements.
 
Obviously there are growing pains as any reasonable person would have expected. When gas-powered cars first came out, there wasn't a gas station on every street either. Eventually there will be enough charging stations that you won't have to worry about finding one, they will charge faster, and we won't have to rely on a global commodity that results in us paying a hell of a lot more due to events happening in a completely different part of the world. Seems bizarre that there are people actively rooting against technological improvements.
Ok. But the elite talking heads preach everyone should just get an electric car to address the current gas and fuel price issues. Couple that with an impending shortage of electricity this summer.


 
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I Rented an Electric Car for a Four-Day Road Trip. I Spent More Time Charging It Than I Did Sleeping.




The author is a moron. Clearly, this guy did zero research and his shitty trip was his own fault.

If you're renting an EV for a long road trip, rent a Tesla. This is a no brainer. The Tesla charging network is head and shoulders better than any other available. Conveniently located, reliable, abundant, fast and simple. Stop and plug....no touch screens, credit cards, or need to create an account.

The term "fast charging" is misleading. A 3rd party "fast charger" that maxes out at 24 or 50 kW isn't fast. Why would you stop at a charger like this if you just need a quick fill? Again, unprepared and ignorant. If you can't rent a Tesla, map out your 3rd party charging stops to insure 150+ kW chargers.
 
The author is a moron. Clearly, this guy did zero research and his shitty trip was his own fault.

If you're renting an EV for a long road trip, rent a Tesla. This is a no brainer. The Tesla charging network is head and shoulders better than any other available. Conveniently located, reliable, abundant, fast and simple. Stop and plug....no touch screens, credit cards, or need to create an account.

The term "fast charging" is misleading. A 3rd party "fast charger" that maxes out at 24 or 50 kW isn't fast. Why would you stop at a charger like this if you just need a quick fill? Again, unprepared and ignorant. If you can't rent a Tesla, map out your 3rd party charging stops to insure 150+ kW chargers.
Is this your subtle way of saying ICE cars are for morons? Does one have to be part of the intelligencia to correctly choose and operate their EV? Whereas any idiot can operate and easily fuel an ICE vehicle. 😃

Seems to me, crafting cars that require that people do research before driving doesn't sound like great market targeting if the objective is to sell lots of cars. Isn't the average IQ supposed to be around 100? And, as you may know, 100 ain't smart.

Thing is, even Tesla's charging network is not nearly as conveniently located, reliable, abundant, fast and simple as gas stations, especially for long road trips. A person would have to be a total moron to argue that. 😉

And before you say "but gas prices"... remember that all you'll be accomplishing with that statement is teeing up yet another post for me in which I can obnoxiously tease you for having so little money that you care about gas prices.
 
Is this your subtle way of saying ICE cars are for morons? Does one have to be part of the intelligencia to correctly choose and operate their EV? Whereas any idiot can operate and easily fuel an ICE vehicle. 😃

Seems to me, crafting cars that require that people do research before driving doesn't sound like great market targeting if the objective is to sell lots of cars. Isn't the average IQ supposed to be around 100? And, as you may know, 100 ain't smart.

Thing is, even Tesla's charging network is not nearly as conveniently located, reliable, abundant, fast and simple as gas stations, especially for long road trips. A person would have to be a total moron to argue that. 😉

And before you say "but gas prices"... remember that all you'll be accomplishing with that statement is teeing up yet another post for me in which I can obnoxiously tease you for having so little money that you care about gas prices.
No money for gas but enough for a monthly car payment of $600 per month for the next 15 years.
 
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No money for gas but enough for a monthly car payment of $600 per month for the next 15 years.
After buying my Tesla Model 3 in May of 2018 (with help from the full $7500 tax credit, no sales tax, and Tesla share ownership), I'll have mine paid off in 5 years next June. My moneybags career? I'm a teacher.
Here's what I'm on pace annually to save at current gasoline prices vs. the most I've ever paid for my electricity during each calendar month. So, this is the bare minimum I'm saving in comparison to gasoline expenses incurred by a similar BMW or Audi (even though I'm told 28 mpg is being way too generous by a BMW owner).
But sure. You be you.
FUvP2XkWIAQmU-p
 
After buying my Tesla Model 3 in May of 2018 (with help from the full $7500 tax credit, no sales tax, and Tesla share ownership), I'll have mine paid off in 5 years next June. My moneybags career? I'm a teacher.
Here's what I'm on pace annually to save at current gasoline prices vs. the most I've ever paid for my electricity during each calendar month. So, this is the bare minimum I'm saving in comparison to gasoline expenses incurred by a similar BMW or Audi (even though I'm told 28 mpg is being way too generous by a BMW owner).
But sure. You be you.
FUvP2XkWIAQmU-p
But what do you do when you have to buy a new battery. Did you add that onto future costs? AND for the tree-huggers, what about getting rid of the old battery?
 
After buying my Tesla Model 3 in May of 2018 (with help from the full $7500 tax credit, no sales tax, and Tesla share ownership), I'll have mine paid off in 5 years next June. My moneybags career? I'm a teacher.
Here's what I'm on pace annually to save at current gasoline prices vs. the most I've ever paid for my electricity during each calendar month. So, this is the bare minimum I'm saving in comparison to gasoline expenses incurred by a similar BMW or Audi (even though I'm told 28 mpg is being way too generous by a BMW owner).
But sure. You be you.
FUvP2XkWIAQmU-p
Then throw in the maintenance cost savings. Nearly 3 years in my model 3 and I've rotated tires, changed cabin air filter, and filled washer fluid. That's it.
The time/hassle bonus of no routine maintenance or weekly fuel stops if you're home charging.

The luddites will eventually wake up....or die off. That's how it goes with new technology.
 
No money for gas but enough for a monthly car payment of $600 per month for the next 15 years.
He's trying to sell a solution aimed at the intellectual elite and the upper middle class and wealthy. Heck, why not just kill off everybody on the planet with IQ's under 140 and individual incomes less than $150K (US). That would solve all kinds of issues the world has, including environmental, no matter what kind of cars we use.
 
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After buying my Tesla Model 3 in May of 2018 (with help from the full $7500 tax credit, no sales tax, and Tesla share ownership), I'll have mine paid off in 5 years next June. My moneybags career? I'm a teacher.
Here's what I'm on pace annually to save at current gasoline prices vs. the most I've ever paid for my electricity during each calendar month. So, this is the bare minimum I'm saving in comparison to gasoline expenses incurred by a similar BMW or Audi (even though I'm told 28 mpg is being way too generous by a BMW owner).
But sure. You be you.
FUvP2XkWIAQmU-p
Facts suck for haters!
In fairness, however, weren't Teslas more reasonably priced when you purchased yours? As detailed in this thread, there are few reasonable-cost EV options right now (the Bolt, maybe the KIA?), but that will change over time.
 
Then throw in the maintenance cost savings. Nearly 3 years in my model 3 and I've rotated tires, changed cabin air filter, and filled washer fluid. That's it.
The time/hassle bonus of no routine maintenance or weekly fuel stops if you're home charging.

The luddites will eventually wake up....or die off. That's how it goes with new technology.
Why have I heard reports about these cars taking hours to charge? And what if there is an emergency that you have to get to and your car is charging? I would rather gas up in 5 minutes then charge up in a few hours. The weekly fuel stops could mean getting to an emergency faster. And knowing the cost to replace a battery? Looks like things even out with maintaining either vehicle.
 
Why have I heard reports about these cars taking hours to charge? And what if there is an emergency that you have to get to and your car is charging? I would rather gas up in 5 minutes then charge up in a few hours. The weekly fuel stops could mean getting to an emergency faster. And knowing the cost to replace a battery? Looks like things even out with maintaining either vehicle.
What are your a police, fire or EMS worker? 😁
Then maybe an EV is not for you. A plug in hybrid would be a great option to save money on gas/fuel and have the option of driving short hauls on electricity.
 
What are your a police, fire or EMS worker? 😁
Then maybe an EV is not for you. A plug in hybrid would be a great option to save money on gas/fuel and have the option of driving short hauls on electricity.
Don't have to be a 1st responder to have an emergency if you have a family to take care of.
 
Ok. But the elite talking heads preach everyone should just get an electric car to address the current gas and fuel price issues. Couple that with an impending shortage of electricity this summer.


Who cares what the elite talking heads say? Are any of us really buying a car because someone said to? My point was that obviously there are some issues that aren't fully smoothed out yet, but there are many people who would rather see EVs fail rather than have those issues resolved so that we can move on from gasoline. I don't get it.
 
But what do you do when you have to buy a new battery. Did you add that onto future costs? AND for the tree-huggers, what about getting rid of the old battery?
I won't for a very long time, perhaps for as much as 500,000 miles (if the body lasts that long). The linear decline of the charging capacity of the 1865 batteries in Model Ss dating back to 2012 suggests the more recent, durable chemistry in my 2170 cells will still be charging to 85-90% that long.
Lithium and the other metals in the batteries are completely recyclable. Until recent supply chain problems, the push to explore and refine ways to do it wasn't a priority but increasing demand and those supply issues now have an army of corporations and innovators producing cost effective ways to do it.
You really have to lay off the intentional mis and disinformation floating around out there when it's very easy to find accurate answers to questions like those, minus the oil-inspired FUD.
Tesla battery data shows path to over 500,000 miles on a single pack (...known since 2016)
 
I won't for a very long time, perhaps for as much as 500,000 miles (if the body lasts that long). The linear decline of the charging capacity of the 1865 batteries in Model Ss dating back to 2012 suggests the more recent, durable chemistry in my 2170 cells will still be charging to 85-90% that long.
Lithium and the other metals in the batteries are completely recyclable. Until recent supply chain problems, the push to explore and refine ways to do it wasn't a priority but increasing demand and those supply issues now have an army of corporations and innovators producing cost effective ways to do it.
You really have to lay off the intentional mis and disinformation floating around out there when it's very easy to find accurate answers to questions like those, minus the oil-inspired FUD.
Tesla battery data shows path to over 500,000 miles on a single pack (...known since 2016)
I have never heard that these batteries can last for 500,000 miles. beyond that, show me anyone who has a car with 500,00 miles on it. People don't keep their car that long.
 
Who cares what the elite talking heads say? Are any of us really buying a car because someone said to? My point was that obviously there are some issues that aren't fully smoothed out yet, but there are many people who would rather see EVs fail rather than have those issues resolved so that we can move on from gasoline. I don't get it.
There are people who are trying to force us into these cars. We know who they are. I guess if we move on from gasoline, that ends classic car shows, sales , etc.
 
Why have I heard reports about these cars taking hours to charge? And what if there is an emergency that you have to get to and your car is charging? I would rather gas up in 5 minutes then charge up in a few hours. The weekly fuel stops could mean getting to an emergency faster. And knowing the cost to replace a battery? Looks like things even out with maintaining either vehicle.
I don't know why this part is so hard to explain to people. I can only guess they just don't read what I type each time this comes up...
I'M ASLEEP EVERY NIGHT WHEN IT'S CHARGING. I wake up each morning with a "full tank" so to speak - the 80% charge that is healthiest for the battery chemistry in my car to regularly charge to. That's 250 miles, more than enough distance to reach any potential emergency in my life. (I can easily spare the 20-30 min. needed at one of many Wawas or rest stops that have Tesla Superchargers nowadays on the way home since I'll want a coffee and sandwich at some point.)
There. Are. No. Weekly. Fuel. Stops.
Here's the ONLY regular time I really use Tesla Superchargers: The farthest I ever drive from southern NJ is to Cape Charles, VA to camp with friends. Although my car's 310 mile range can make the trip, I charge in Salisbury, MD before arriving so I can put my car's backseats down to sleep in my car at night. The full charge allows me to put "camping mode" on so I can snooze with the AC on all night.
 
I don't know why this part is so hard to explain to people. I can only guess they just don't read what I type each time this comes up...
I'M ASLEEP EVERY NIGHT WHEN IT'S CHARGING. I wake up each morning with a "full tank" so to speak - the 80% charge that is healthiest for the battery chemistry in my car to regularly charge to. That's 250 miles, more than enough distance to reach any potential emergency in my life. (I can easily spare the 20-30 min. needed at one of many Wawas or rest stops that have Tesla Superchargers nowadays on the way home since I'll want a coffee and sandwich at some point.)
There. Are. No. Weekly. Fuel. Stops.
Here's the ONLY regular time I really use Tesla Superchargers: The farthest I ever drive from southern NJ is to Cape Charles, VA to camp with friends. Although my car's 310 mile range can make the trip, I charge in Salisbury, MD before arriving so I can put my car's backseats down to sleep in my car at night. The full charge allows me to put "camping mode" on so I can snooze with the AC on all night.
Well, you just sold me with the sleeping in the car part. Sounds like some fun.
P.S. Thats, NOT, a way to sell a product. But thanks because you just gave more people a reason NOT to buy one.
 
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I have never heard that these batteries can last for 500,000 miles. beyond that, show me anyone who has a car with 500,00 miles on it. People don't keep their car that long.
Even if the battery lasts for half that, that's still way longer than most people keep their cars. I'd say most EV drivers won't have to replace their battery.

There are people who are trying to force us into these cars. We know who they are. I guess if we move on from gasoline, that ends classic car shows, sales , etc.
Really? Who is trying to force you into buying a car? Classic car shows aren't going anywhere, it's not like gasoline is going to cease existing. Even so, is it worth maintaining our dependence on gasoline just to save classic car shows? I'm looking forward to eventually owning an EV once the infrastructure is improved and there is an EV that I am interested in, but I'm also looking forward to driving my gas-powered hot rod (yet to be built) for as long as it will last.
 
I have never heard that these batteries can last for 500,000 miles. beyond that, show me anyone who has a car with 500,00 miles on it. People don't keep their car that long.
You told me I would need to replace my batteries. I'm telling you that a simple thing in data analysis called "extrapolation" (look it up) indicates they will still charge adequately if the rest of the car holds up until it has that many miles. (Since the motor primarily has magnets spinning in magnetic fields without contact, they are rated for 1,000,000 miles so please don't go after them next; I'll take 17 moving parts any day over the hundreds bathed in oil in an ICE car.)
I love when people move the goalposts and imply I'm arguing something I'm not. Seeing how you've gone full angry mode above about EVs being "forced on you", I'll let you and your tribe of allies pump your fists at the sky like Grandpa Simpson without me. Cheers.
 
Facts suck for haters!
In fairness, however, weren't Teslas more reasonably priced when you purchased yours? As detailed in this thread, there are few reasonable-cost EV options right now (the Bolt, maybe the KIA?), but that will change over time.
To be honest, since I bought mine, I haven't kept tabs on what the current insane car market and supply chain issues for metals has done to the prices of the Model 3 but I'm not so sure about that.
When I bought mine, they had all of us line-waiters from March 2016 desperate to get the sale done before the full tax credit got phased out.
With the options I chose, a quick look at tesla.com shows that the price now without the tax credit is right around the same that I paid.
 
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You told me I would need to replace my batteries. I'm telling you that a simple thing in data analysis called "extrapolation" (look it up) indicates they will still charge adequately if the rest of the car holds up until it has that many miles. (Since the motor primarily has magnets spinning in magnetic fields without contact, they are rated for 1,000,000 miles so please don't go after them next; I'll take 17 moving parts any day over the hundreds bathed in oil in an ICE car.)
I love when people move the goalposts and imply I'm arguing something I'm not. Seeing how you've gone full angry mode above about EVs being "forced on you", I'll let you and your tribe of allies pump your fists at the sky like Grandpa Simpson without me. Cheers.
Who is angry? We are both discussing this. You are the one who was yelling by using capital letters. So I would think that you are the angry one, after all you point out your sleeping habits/charging with caps. And please read the anger in your 1st sentence. BTW, we all know dems are forcing this. Even Brandon said this was a transition.
 
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Even if the battery lasts for half that, that's still way longer than most people keep their cars. I'd say most EV drivers won't have to replace their battery.


Really? Who is trying to force you into buying a car? Classic car shows aren't going anywhere, it's not like gasoline is going to cease existing. Even so, is it worth maintaining our dependence on gasoline just to save classic car shows? I'm looking forward to eventually owning an EV once the infrastructure is improved and there is an EV that I am interested in, but I'm also looking forward to driving my gas-powered hot rod (yet to be built) for as long as it will last.
Dems/tree-huggers are forcing this. As far as I know the battery lasts 100,000 miles before needing to be replaced. We don't have the infrastructure in place at this point to recycle them.
 
There are people who are trying to force us into these cars. We know who they are. I guess if we move on from gasoline, that ends classic car shows, sales , etc.

Classic cars have their own set of rules so doubtful.

And have you seen the $$$ involved in classic car auctions, no way they're getting rid of that. Posted earlier in this thread that a Mercedes just doubled the world record at 135 million euro, was just a solid rumor at that point but Merc confirmed with announcement. Into nine digit prices.
 
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