that not all of them worship Musk and Tesla.
OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
No, but plenty of human drivers kill people every day. You continue to beat the drum of how dangerous autonomous vehicles are. Surly you have evidence to prove they're less safe than humans. Please provide.
What does any of that have to do with the aforementioned article? And how is the government infiltrating auto media?
There is no proof either way. I’m not happy when humans kill people with cars, either. I would put deliberately inattentive or inebriated humans in the same boat, take away their licenses, get ‘em off the roads.
But when it’s a combination of bad software and corporate greed plus a technology that requires humans, who struggle to pay attention even when they’re doing the driving, to pay attention while they‘re not doing the driving? How is that even allowed? It’s obviously unworkable.
And I’m not picking on Tesla here. I’m saying ALL partially automated driving software, from any manufacturer, should be banned. Get full automation working under all conditions. Then release it on public roads.
If that takes longer and costs companies lots more to do, tough shit.
@Knight Shift my uncle just bought a Lighting XLT. Dealer incentive $1500. I got a unsolicited trade-in value that’s 55% of MSRP
55% of MSRP? Isn't that a lowball offer? I have heard from various used car "experts" that it would pay to unload your EV now rather than later, but 45% depreciation in one year is pretty bad?
it was weird. see below.
Exceptional upgrade opportunity. Move up to a brand-new 2023 Ford F-150 Lightning LARIAT 4WD SuperCrew 5.5' Box for $94,983.* If you trade in your 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning LARIAT 4WD SuperCrew 5.5' Box Automatic and apply $38,850, the estimated Galves value of your current vehicle, you may be able to upgrade to a 2023 Ford F-150 Lightning LARIAT 4WD SuperCrew 5.5' Box for $57,939 cash.Ω*
Is that offer being made by a college football coach's agent? 😬 Seriously, that seems insane. What is the upside for you, besides losing 45% of your your value in one year?
I have not kept up fully, but I understand certain features (perhaps heated steering wheel? and others) have been stripped out of the 2023 models. I guess one upside is they have heat pumps?
Not seeing the impetus to do this. My dealer called me while we were away in Arizona and I was in the middle of a hike or something with some "hot offer." I told them to take me off their call list because I'm not interested in losing money.
Feels like a bad AI generated response. Lariat for 95K? Just didn’t make any sense.
F-150 Lightning Cash Rebate Incentives Offered on New Sales/Leases Until January 2024
Ford F-150 Lightning Has Up To A $15,000 Discount Ford appears to be banking on big rebates to sell as many F-150 Lightnings as it can in the final months of the year. According to incentives introduced last week, the F-150 Lightning now features as much as a $7,500 discount for buying or...
www.f150lightningforum.com
Maybe this is why the heavy depreciation. That’s 15k off on 70k MSRP.
Reeks of desperation to sell EV F150s?F-150 Lightning Cash Rebate Incentives Offered on New Sales/Leases Until January 2024
Ford F-150 Lightning Has Up To A $15,000 Discount Ford appears to be banking on big rebates to sell as many F-150 Lightnings as it can in the final months of the year. According to incentives introduced last week, the F-150 Lightning now features as much as a $7,500 discount for buying or...
Maybe this is why the heavy depreciation. That’s 15k off on 70k MSRP.
IDK, maybe all the EV automakers counted their chickens before they hatched?
Probably trying to front run the CT and hit some YE numbers. I don’t know why people would not buy the Lariat over the XLT with the dealer incentive. It’s like a 2k difference. Maybe if you really hate leather seats?
There is a thread on the forums about some people complaining about the leather seats I think they are pleather.
@Knight Shift i was right. Looks like these car companies all bought the same AI software for mass personalized marketing. I got literally the same thing from VW.
You channeling your inner @Plum Street 🤣 . Getting more and more of these types of e-mails. Right now, getting e-mails from "recruiters" (one with the name, and I do not kid, "David Careers" for a R&D manager). AI is out of control and must be stopped!
LOL at comparing a laptop to a car.
Since Tesla worked with the government on this issue and had to issue a "patch", yes, technically it's a recall by definition. Again, other car manufacturers have issued the same kind of guidance, calling a software patch, a recall. In 2019, Mercedes Benz issued a recall as well for their rear camera that was delayed in showing an image on the screen. The patch was issued OTA so you didn't have to go into a dealer. It was still called a recall. I didn't see Mercedes Benz owners all up in arms over it being called a recall.
The fact this bothers you so much kind of proves the point about how defensive and whiny some Tesla people get. Who cares that it's technically called a recall?
Last edited:
That incentive was pulled two weeks ago. Wonder if it comes back but with the cut in production, doubt it.
They are not cutting production. They are cutting their production goals. The new expected production will nearly triple this years numbers.
Never said gov't has infiltrated auto media specifically. The aforementioned article is clickbait. Tesla being asked to remotely increasing the font size of their Autopilot reminder to the driver, after a 2 year NHTSA investigation isn't much of a news story IMO. 2 year investigation, and that's the fix. Is that worthy of "MASSIVE TESLA RECALL" plastered all over the news?
So you feel the media reaction has been honest and appropriate considering what Tesla had to do in response to NHTSA's investigation and request?
What's your source of information telling you the fix is a font-size change and nothing more?
These articles from AP says otherwise...
Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot
Tesla is recalling nearly all vehicles sold in the U.S., more than 2 million, to update software and fix a defective system when using Autopilot.
apnews.com
What Tesla Autopilot does, why it's being recalled and how the company plans to fix it
Tesla is recalling more than 2 million vehicles in the US to fix a defective system meant to ensure drivers pay attention using Autopilot.
apnews.com
This article also says otherwise...
Tesla Recall Won't Fix Autopilot Problems, Critics Say - CleanTechnica
Tesla says it will add more warnings when Autopilot is activated improperly but critics say that is not enough to solve the problem.
cleantechnica.com
I suspect that virtually every article from virtually every media outlet will report the same things. Which all say it's more than a font-size change.
Well you just said that the fix was a font-size change. Which does not seem particularly honest or, at the very least, indicates you may be relying on sources of information about Tesla that are lying to you.
LOL. That was a bit over the top at times, but still mostly entertaining.
It is a little concerning that Musk wants to put a Musk-controlled robot into every home. He's not exactly a beacon of light for ethical and moral decision-making.
One wonders... are these robots going to accept OTA updates just like his cars? When the robot malfunctions and kills everyone in the house in their sleep, will that be blamed on the murdered family?
Musk: "It's not my fault. They were stupid and used the robot incorrectly. The safety instructions clearly say, on page 8,252, to lock up all sharp household objects at night while sleeping."
I mean... John Oliver is always over the top. He should have been the one to inherit The Daily Show from Jon Stewart.
I feel that getting pissy over it being called a recall is hilarious and doesn't refute the stereotype that Tesla and Musk fans tend to be overly sensitive about anything that is remotely criticial of Musk or Tesla.
In our field, people are using ChatGPT to take shortcuts to getting work done. Not a fan. Grind things out the old fashioned way, and make your money the same way--earn it, not by taking shorcuts.
Tesla Drivers Have More Car Crashes Than Anyone Else: Study
Analysis of insurance quotes revealed that Tesla drivers are more accident prone than drivers of 29 other automotive brands.
jalopnik.com
I drove my dad's Tesla 3 all weekend. Cherry Hill --> Atlantic City --> Union --> New Brunswick and back.
Used Autopilot extensively.
For me, it's just -- OK.
There are still too many situations where it makes a "WTH" maneuver and you have to override it.
3 examples:
Still, it's not quite "there" yet and I'm not sure it ever will be unless also combined with smart lanes (ie: superhighway with dedicated self-driving lane where cars & road can all communicate together).
Definitely not ready to trust it in a more urban setting with bikers, pedestrians, pets, kids, etc.
But -- I think the technology is amazing for supplementing a driver. You sort of feel like Iron Man because there are no blind spots and sensors can see better than we can in the dark or rain.
Used Autopilot extensively.
For me, it's just -- OK.
There are still too many situations where it makes a "WTH" maneuver and you have to override it.
3 examples:
- Traffic cones - Route 70 in South Jersey has a lot of construction going on. The cones register fairly accurately on the screen so I know the sensors are picking them up. However, it has a difficult time processing the lane markers on the road vs where the traffic cones are actually trying to get you to go.
- Speedy drivers - When I'm on the highway and driving normally, I'm constantly scanning my rearview. When I was on the turnpike, the Autopilot was going to change lanes right into the path of a car that was barreling down the left lane. Had to override.
- Merging - Turnpike again. When merging onto a highway, the Autopilot's logic tends to hug the white line on the right. So you end up merging at the last second possible. Meanwhile, there are people behind me who were already merging and accelerating into my projected merge path. Was very uncomfortable and never trusted it in that situation again.
Still, it's not quite "there" yet and I'm not sure it ever will be unless also combined with smart lanes (ie: superhighway with dedicated self-driving lane where cars & road can all communicate together).
Definitely not ready to trust it in a more urban setting with bikers, pedestrians, pets, kids, etc.
But -- I think the technology is amazing for supplementing a driver. You sort of feel like Iron Man because there are no blind spots and sensors can see better than we can in the dark or rain.
This is well worth reading.
apnews.com
I hope that, at the very least, states enact regulations about various automated driving features, like they did with seat belts. Although I still think an outright ban of self-driving systems is what’s needed.
They work just well enough in perfect conditions to eventually convince drivers to stop being alert and that’s exactly the problem. Because driving conditions can change to extremely imperfect in an instant and that‘s where alertness is critical. But the systems actively condition drivers to lose alertness and then people die easily preventable deaths.
Tesla's recall of 2 million vehicles to fix its Autopilot system uses technology that may not work
Tesla’s recall of more than 2 million of its electric vehicles — an effort to have drivers who use its Autopilot system pay closer attention to the road — relies on technology that research shows may not work as intended.
apnews.com
I hope that, at the very least, states enact regulations about various automated driving features, like they did with seat belts. Although I still think an outright ban of self-driving systems is what’s needed.
They work just well enough in perfect conditions to eventually convince drivers to stop being alert and that’s exactly the problem. Because driving conditions can change to extremely imperfect in an instant and that‘s where alertness is critical. But the systems actively condition drivers to lose alertness and then people die easily preventable deaths.
It’s a silly question. The media is vast and coverage varies wildly.
Which media specifically is the problem? AP’s coverage of the recall has been dry, factual, and informative. No doubt some other media sources are engaging in more hyperbolic reporting.
Media hyperbole is hardly unique to Tesla’s recall (although I haven’t actually seen much of that outside of Jalopnik who clearly have a bug up their butt about Tesla and Musk). The media, in general, hypes up everything.
It might suck but it’s not a conspiracy against Tesla.
Since you're talking about merging and lane changes, your Dad's Tesla has Enhanced Autopilot.
Standard Autopilot doesn't change lanes or do on/off ramps.
Remember that your preset speed and % over allowance won't change until you're actually on the Turnpike. You need to use the right scroll wheel to bump up the % over speed limit when on an onramp. That should help. I've had a mixed bag of merges. Many perfect, but some where I'm saying "WTF are you waiting for?".
Another thing, which I think is both a Tesla/NHTSA issue and lane marking issue, is Autopilot will not cross over a solid line unless a safety issue is eminent. I have a particular offramp in my area where most people will cross the solid line on the right to prepare for exit. EA won't do that. It will only merge when the lane lines go from solid to dashed. NHTSA would have a shit fit if Tesla programmed Autopilot to cross solid lines on merges, but at the same time, that's what most human drivers are doing. NHTSA did the same thing by telling Tesla no more rolling stops, even if an intersection is wide open. So, an autonomous vehicle following the rules actually becomes a safety issue. Not sure what this fix is.
