Read the slide deck. Listen to the call. Stop making shit up. No Tesla executive ever said no growth. Let's start with facts before continuing
OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
Short term thinking re: growth and revs
Look, both of you guys play the short term stocks casino. I have no interest in that. My minimum investment horizon is 5 years. I'm concerned about the long term path of the company, and nothing has changed to alter my outlook.
Good thing you didn’t say 3 year horizon. TSLA stock is down 35% over that time span.
Tesla owner in running for Darwin award if only he put the batter yinside the toaster oven and submersed it in the sink, things may have turned out differently.
www.wral.com
Battery from Tesla explodes in Cary home; firefighters say danger exists with any car battery
The owners of a Tesla were not following the manufacturer's instructions when they tried to recharge a battery inside their home. It short circuited and burst into flames.
www.wral.com
“Car experts don't recommend charging your car's battery inside because a faulty battery could cause an explosion or fire.”Tesla owner in running for Darwin award if only he put the batter yinside the toaster oven and submersed it in the sink, things may have turned out differently.
Battery from Tesla explodes in Cary home; firefighters say danger exists with any car battery
The owners of a Tesla were not following the manufacturer's instructions when they tried to recharge a battery inside their home. It short circuited and burst into flames.
I mean, isn’t the garage “inside”? I’ve got two cars with Lithium Ion batteries that require trickle-charging if not driven once a week. I’m supposed to park them outside now?
Current cost of goods sold/vehicle at Tesla is $36k. The goal of the next gen platform is to get that cost to ~$18k, with a smaller factory footprint, and faster production time. Femont is already the most productive automotive factory in N America. Shanghai is one of the most productive in the world. This platform will dwarf the production of the lines in those factories. That's why I'm excited about the future.
My buddy comes up to play golf all the time from San Diego. Invariably every time he has to talk about where he’s going to change. I finally had to tell him I don’t give af. That’s your problem. Always seems to be a big issue for him.
GM dealers are pleading for more hybrid car models amid EV slowdown: report
An influential set of General Motors dealership owners have been asking the automaker for more hybrid vehicles, out of concern that they are missing out...
www.marketwatch.com
GM dealers are pleading for more hybrid car models amid EV slowdown: report
An influential set of General Motors dealership owners have been asking the automaker for more hybrid vehicles, out of concern that they are missing out...
Have little to no interest in a GM but more phev suvs across the market would be grand.
Now this is a car.
jalopnik.com
This 10,000 RPM V8-Powered Toyota Starlet Is Everything A Car Should Be
This car is powered by twin Hayabusa engines fused into one.
jalopnik.com
Could this be the best EV made today?
Big jump in sales for the fourth qtr
cleantechnica.com
US Auto Industry Rose 8% in 4th Quarter, While EV Industry Grew 29% - CleanTechnica
Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! The US auto industry ... [continued]
cleantechnica.com
If I could dust off an old chestnut.... Production is hard
Lucid's drivetrain is amazing. The most efficient in the business. Scale and cost is where they're failing.
Probably not the best idea to start with a high end sedan in the US either when they did. USA is SUV country. Tesla had first mover advantage with Model S. Now, the market has several luxury EV sedans, and Lucid is not moving nearly enough metal. Every quarter, their financials get worse. The only question now (IMO) is how much longer will the Saudis keep them afloat?
That is a very good/balanced real world review. Scrolling to see if he’s reviewed any of the SUV’s I’ve been considering.
You may be right about production. But that's just not in my interest zone in any way.
I just like how the review described the driving of it, which is my highest priority for any car. The driving experience is what gets me excited, technology being a very distant second.
Manufacturing doesn't even make the list. Make a lot of cars, make a few, survive, fold... none of that means anything to me. Although I suppose I'd briefly be a little sad if Porsche went under given my fondness for how many of their products drive.
Saw a Cybertruck for the first time in the wild today. It’s certainly a spectacle, people were stopping to take pictures and check it out. Unfortunately, the owner wasn’t around to give a real world review. It’s not as tall as I expected but also much longer, probably a perspective thing as it’s as long as a truck but doesn’t look anything like a normal one.
Cybertruck
Cybertruck
It's not growing on me with time. I still find it laughable looking and would be embarrassed to be seen in one. I figure there are good spectacles (e.g. supercars) and bad ones. The CT strikes me as a bad one.
I don't much like the styling of the C8 Corvette, either. It's also a spectacle. But I wouldn't feel at all embarrassed to be seen in one and could even see myself buying a Z06 C8. It's not beautiful, IMO. But it's not laughable either.
I can't say for sure, but I suspect seeing a CT in person will only strengthen my negative opinion. But each to their own. My opinion on the CT is totally meaningless to anybody but me. People should get what they like.
Lucky!
Remember there are 12 inches of suspension travel, so you might have seen it at a lower setting.
How many people were measuring panel gaps? 😜
Last edited:
Looks like a Delorean that got stuck in a trash compactor.
That litter under the front bumper-boo.
Scotty on Ford's glut of EVs nobody wants to buy.
Ford being nuked by green egg-heads with grants and grift
The EV fiasco is typical of the command and control, top-down economic disasters the communists forced in their countries. Go back to free markets and stop worrying about fantasy dragons in 2050. Cow toots are not destroying the Earth. Its embarrassing to watch
Ford being nuked by green egg-heads with grants and grift
The EV fiasco is typical of the command and control, top-down economic disasters the communists forced in their countries. Go back to free markets and stop worrying about fantasy dragons in 2050. Cow toots are not destroying the Earth. Its embarrassing to watch
E-buses cant get parts - it never stops
www.foxbusiness.com
Electric buses are sitting unused in cities across the US; here's why
Many U.S. cities are grappling with broken-down electric transit vehicles that cannot be fixed, months after the largest E-bus manufacturer filed for bankruptcy.
This guy has a lot of subscribers, but he needs to take a breath and slow down. He sounds like this guy:
Actually the problem for Ford is production and engineering. Losing $30k on every Lightning is a poor business model, which is why Ford dialed back production .
In order to convert a traditional ICE pick-up owner to go electric is a challenge. You need a compelling product. While I think the Lightning is good enough, apparently it's not enough to convert the diehard masses.
The Mach-e is a good EV, but it doesn't hold a candle to the Model Y. Kia's EV6 probably edges out the Mach-e as well.
Ford needs to do better on design, technology, and most of all, production efficiency. Make a compelling product and people will buy it.
Not everything is a grand communist conspiracy. You've got a lot to say about EVs for someone who's never driven one. Maybe go for a test drive. You won't catch commie-pox, I promise.
Because there's never been part shortages for ICE vehicles, right?E-buses cant get parts - it never stops
Electric buses are sitting unused in cities across the US; here's why
Many U.S. cities are grappling with broken-down electric transit vehicles that cannot be fixed, months after the largest E-bus manufacturer filed for bankruptcy.
First, everyone knows US electrical and communication infrastructure is spectacularly vulnerable.
Yet there is no fixing all that - all there are are promises of new alternatives that never cover the spread.
Now even military is pushed to go electric.
China, Iran., N Korea are spectacularly excited to see US throw its security under a bus.
Not only will the EV stuff be crippled operationally but CCP gets to build and sell the stuff.
We are clubbed like baby seals due to lack of common sense
On top of that, Pentagon cant account for 4 trillion dollars it was allocated the last few years.
A reason is because when "climate change" was made #1 defense issue it allowed military budget to be ripped-off by sketchy green operations doing the usual money laundering grift (get money from DC and send some back to politicians).
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckb...sical-and-existential-events/?sh=63a19ce7101a
" Losing $30k on every Lightning is a poor business model, which is why Ford dialed back production ."
You do remember the early years of Tesla, don't you? They were losing about $10K per car, but they had already been in the EV business for about 10 or more years. You do understand the concept of making an investment in the future?
"The company built a total of 35,000 Model S cars in 2014.
For the full year, Tesla lost $294 million."
You are pretty far off on your opinion of the Lightning and the Mach-e, but of course, if Elon crapped on a plate, you would think it is the best meal that was ever served.
You're some debater. Glad you're taking the L on part shortages.
I have an answer for your rant. Solar + Wind + Stationary Storage will decentralize the grid and create an abundance of cheap, clean, secure energy. This is the future of energy.
"The last 3 years Ford has led the nation in recalled vehicles.....Ford Bronco V6 engines eating valves". IE not EV.
Once you got past the headline and the initial knock on Ford's EV segment, this guy paints a picture more broad then just problems selling ev's.
But for 2023 Ford's EV sales were up 17%
Their ICE sales were up 5.5%
Hybrid up 25%.
We shall see what 2024 brings, I think the stockpile will bring prices down, which should help sell more vehicles, but I'm sure Ford would love 17% EV growth into 2024.
Edit: the dude then goes on a rant about putting trackers in your OBD ports. I mean cool, but is this at all following the headline?
Followed by: My 2008 Camaro get's stuck in park.
That is as far as I will go.
Last edited:
He uses the sawed off shotgun approach.
Your 2014 #s prove my point. Based on your data, Tesla was already more efficient than Ford at that point. Keep in mind, Li-ion batteries were also 2X the cost of current cells in 2014. Ford is bloated and inefficient. So is every other OEM. The UAW certainly doesn't help.
I've always said Ford's 2 offerings were good.
I wish they'd continue to cut costs and improve their tech and manufacturing.
I can't imagine the leadership at traditional OEMs are blind to the Chinese EV invasion that is going to happen in the next few years. The current plan of pausing EV development and production in order to maximize near term profits won't age well. Well, I take that back. The current plan will work very well for current executives whose top priority is ensuring their golden parachute.
Does any of this really matter? Wasn't the world supposed to implode like 10 years ago, according to you?
Enjoy OT, brother!
You glossed over the point that Tesla was already an EV business for 10 years in 2014. You want to gloss over that. You also fail to realize that there was hyperinflation and supply chain issues plaguing all segments of manufacturing. when Ford rolled out the Lightning.
You wish they'd continue to improve tech and manufacturing? The reality is that demand for the products are currently declining. Do you want them to keep piling up inventory when the number of buyers does not match the number of units produced? That would be idiotic.
You really do a great job as Tesla's head cheerleader.
Ford's current EV production capacity can handle further growth. They did not need to increase production capacity at the moment. The initial capacity plans were designed around significantly higher demand growth which was really just too ambitious. That's what was scaled back.
Ford sold 26,000 EV's in the 4th qtr. Even if they just keep that pace through 2024 that will garner 40ish% growth over their 2023 sales of 70K ev's.
Ford Just Lost Billions of Dollars on EVs. Here's Why That's Good News. | The Motley Fool
A record 2023 for Ford's EV business unit might mean big losses in the near term, but here's why it's still positive news.
www.fool.com
Demand growth is declining, I'm not sure if demand is.
Flood of supply, from legacies and startups alike is the real story.
Tesla was competing against no one in the space. Now there are dozens(or at least a dozen+) of players.
From the above link.
"What's encouraging for investors is that the F-150 Lightning was the No. 1-selling electric truck and the F-150 Hybrid the No. 1-selling full-size hybrid truck for the full year. It's important for investors to see that Ford's strength in full-size gasoline-powered trucks can transition to EVs, because full-size trucks are a critical component for a fatter bottom line."
I said it somewhere earlier in this thread, but I know a guy who has been waiting on an EV Silverado since last spring. Not sure my point there, but it's been Ford vs Rivian when it comes to pickups in these early stages. CT obviously just now hopping into the fray.
"What's encouraging for investors is that the F-150 Lightning was the No. 1-selling electric truck and the F-150 Hybrid the No. 1-selling full-size hybrid truck for the full year. It's important for investors to see that Ford's strength in full-size gasoline-powered trucks can transition to EVs, because full-size trucks are a critical component for a fatter bottom line."
I said it somewhere earlier in this thread, but I know a guy who has been waiting on an EV Silverado since last spring. Not sure my point there, but it's been Ford vs Rivian when it comes to pickups in these early stages. CT obviously just now hopping into the fray.
Latest posts
-
-
Basketball Rutgers Basketball wins second straight, downs USC 95-85- Latest: Chickadee34
-
