OT: Electric vehicles

[RU-05]

More on Ford's scale back on EV production.

Does Ford's Big EV Move Spell Trouble in Paradise? | The Motley Fool

Ford has flip-flopped production strategy of a critical electric vehicle, and it could delay its 2026 goals.

www.fool.com

Cutting EV F-150 production from 3200 a week to 1600. Even at that lower pace that is 80K units for the year. Last year they sold 24K EV F-150's. So even with these cuts, and say demand is not even there to support that and sales are disastrous, they are going to clear 100% sales growth.

Interestingly the workers from the EV plant will move over to the ICE Bronco plant where sales are strong. I say that is interesting because I think an EV Bronco would do quite well. Seems like the ultimate drive around car where I'm at.

 

[Knight Shift]

More on Ford's scale back on EV production.

Does Ford's Big EV Move Spell Trouble in Paradise? | The Motley Fool

Ford has flip-flopped production strategy of a critical electric vehicle, and it could delay its 2026 goals.

www.fool.com

Cutting EV F-150 production from 3200 a week to 1600. Even at that lower pace that is 80K units for the year. Last year they sold 24K EV F-150's. So even with these cuts, and say demand is not even there to support that and sales are disastrous, they are going to clear 100% sales growth.

Interestingly the workers from the EV plant will move over to the ICE Bronco plant where sales are strong. I say that is interesting because I think an EV Bronco would do quite well. Seems like the ultimate drive around car where I'm at.

This should help move more Ford EVs. People love free stuff. Think the shine is off non-Tesla EVs because of the crappy non-Tesla charging network, which is really a non-factor for a lot of people, but very important for the people who need it.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

More on Ford's scale back on EV production.

Does Ford's Big EV Move Spell Trouble in Paradise? | The Motley Fool

Ford has flip-flopped production strategy of a critical electric vehicle, and it could delay its 2026 goals.

www.fool.com

Cutting EV F-150 production from 3200 a week to 1600. Even at that lower pace that is 80K units for the year. Last year they sold 24K EV F-150's. So even with these cuts, and say demand is not even there to support that and sales are disastrous, they are going to clear 100% sales growth.

Interestingly the workers from the EV plant will move over to the ICE Bronco plant where sales are strong. I say that is interesting because I think an EV Bronco would do quite well. Seems like the ultimate drive around car where I'm at.

I’d buy an EV bronco yesterday if they released one.

 

[T2Kplus20]

More on Ford's scale back on EV production.

Does Ford's Big EV Move Spell Trouble in Paradise? | The Motley Fool

Ford has flip-flopped production strategy of a critical electric vehicle, and it could delay its 2026 goals.

www.fool.com

Cutting EV F-150 production from 3200 a week to 1600. Even at that lower pace that is 80K units for the year. Last year they sold 24K EV F-150's. So even with these cuts, and say demand is not even there to support that and sales are disastrous, they are going to clear 100% sales growth.

Interestingly the workers from the EV plant will move over to the ICE Bronco plant where sales are strong. I say that is interesting because I think an EV Bronco would do quite well. Seems like the ultimate drive around car where I'm at.

Why would anyone buy an EV F-150? Just get a R1T instead. Much better product.

 

[mildone]

Because there's never been part shortages for ICE vehicles, right?

Yeah, it was a silly post. My ~3 month old Cayenne S, which is as ICE as it gets, is well into its second month in the shop due to waiting on parts.

Automakers of all types of cars have mostly recovered since 2020's parts production stoppages. But it seems parts inventories are still not yet without shortages.

 

[mildone]

He uses the sawed off shotgun approach.

That comment had me nearly sneeze coffee out my nose laughing due to the aptness of the metaphor.

I will say, however, that over the years and across several ultimately banned board names he's had, I have a lot of respect @ashokan's intelligence. His observational/analytical skill and ability to form and leverage abstractions are top notch. I estimate that his IQ is easily somewhere in the top 5% of everybody who posts here on the RU rivals forums.

So although he's taking a firmly anti-EV stance, like some of the CE wingnuts who've invaded the thread recently, he stands quite far apart from them intellectually. I ignore what those other folks have to say almost entirely. But I still pay attention to ash's because of the aforementioned skills. Doesn't mean he's right. Just means the thought process is often pretty interesting.

He maybe allows ideology and personal biases to inform his conclusions a wee bit too much is all. And he's far from the only person who does that.

 

[ashokan]

You're some debater. Glad you're taking the L on part shortages.

I have an answer for your rant. Solar + Wind + Stationary Storage will decentralize the grid and create an abundance of cheap, clean, secure energy. This is the future of energy.

Now Ford working from CCP cloud.
The stupidly that rolls out from the business class is just spectacular - not that this crowd gets it
America is becoming a failed state

"Ford Motor Company is planning to contract technology and software from at least four Chinese firms that supply similar services to the Chinese government and military, and the North Korean government, according to contracts obtained by Republican investigators."

Ford plans to hire Chinese military software supplier for EV factory in US: GOP investigators​

Ford plans to hire Chinese military software supplier for EV factory in US: GOP investigators

Ford Motor Company is planning to contract Chinese firms involved in sanctions evasion and hostile military activity for its proposed electric vehicle battery plant in Michigan.

news.yahoo.com

 

[mildone]

Now Ford working from CCP cloud.
The stupidly that rolls out from the business class is just spectacular - not that this crowd gets it
America is becoming a failed state

"Ford Motor Company is planning to contract technology and software from at least four Chinese firms that supply similar services to the Chinese government and military, and the North Korean government, according to contracts obtained by Republican investigators."

Ford plans to hire Chinese military software supplier for EV factory in US: GOP investigators​

Ford plans to hire Chinese military software supplier for EV factory in US: GOP investigators

Ford Motor Company is planning to contract Chinese firms involved in sanctions evasion and hostile military activity for its proposed electric vehicle battery plant in Michigan.

news.yahoo.com

"Stupidity". 😉

 

[RU-05]

"Stupidity". 😉

You really are too kind.

 

[mildone]

You really are too kind.

You know what they say. If you can only be one thing in this life, be kind.

At heart, I'm a kind person.










When I'm not being a total douchebag. 😃

 

[fsg2]

Why would anyone buy an EV F-150? Just get a R1T instead. Much better product.

Lightning has same dimensions as ICE F150, opening up a massive existing aftermarket.

R1T isn't as weird as the Cybertruck, but it does have a 4.5 foot bed that's a market of one.

I prefer the R1T overall, too, but that fact would make cross shopping the Lightning mandatory.

 

[mildone]

Lightning has same dimensions as ICE F150, opening up a massive existing aftermarket.

R1T isn't as weird as the Cybertruck, but it does have a 4.5 foot bed that's a market of one.

I prefer the R1T overall, too, but that fact would make cross shopping the Lightning mandatory.

The Rivian SUV looks pretty nice, although I'm not a big fan of the headlights. If I don't get my Cayenne back soon, I might push for a dealership buy back. In which case, it'll be back to the drawing board for a new SUV. I'm not really quite ready for an EV and would prefer to wait and allow the technology to continue to mature.

But if I wind up SUV shopping again, I might see if I can arrange a Rivian R1S test drive.

 

[RUevolution36]

B

The Rivian SUV looks pretty nice, although I'm not a big fan of the headlights. If I don't get my Cayenne back soon, I might push for a dealership buy back. In which case, it'll be back to the drawing board for a new SUV. I'm not really quite ready for an EV and would prefer to wait and allow the technology to continue to mature.

But if I wind up SUV shopping again, I might see if I can arrange a Rivian R1S test drive.

Bentley Bentayga...swing for the fences.

 

[mildone]

B

Bentley Bentayga...swing for the fences.

Not a fan of Bentley styling. But if I were to seriously consider an EV SUV at this point, in addition to the Rivian, I would want to check out the Lucid Gravity, despite the stupid-ass squared off wheel (hopefully can get an actual round wheel as an option or aftermarket.

My service guy tells me, a bit ago, that the Cayenne parts are all in and the techs are working on it. So perhaps I’ll have it back tomorrow. Unless they put it all back together and find even more issues. Which at this point, would not surprise me at all.

 

[RU-05]

The Rivian SUV looks pretty nice, although I'm not a big fan of the headlights. If I don't get my Cayenne back soon, I might push for a dealership buy back. In which case, it'll be back to the drawing board for a new SUV. I'm not really quite ready for an EV and would prefer to wait and allow the technology to continue to mature.

But if I wind up SUV shopping again, I might see if I can arrange a Rivian R1S test drive.

I feel Rivian went super simple in it's design, except for the headlights. And while I'm also not a big fan of the, imo, cartoonish appearance of those headlight, they are very distinctive.

I find that simple overall, with one very distinctive attribute, a pretty interesting plan for the launch of a car company.

I think focusing on underrepresented segments of the EV market, SUV, Pickups, commercial vehicles, a very shrewd call by RIVN.

 

[ashokan]

Volvo now

Volvo, An Early Electric Car Adopter, Cuts Off Funding For Its EV Affiliate​

Move follows other retrenchments by big automakers as sentiment turns against EVs​

https://www.wsj.com/business/earnings/volvo-car-evaluating-potential-reduction-of-shareholding-in-polestar-85e29826?mod=djemalertNEWS

 

[RUDead]

Volvo now

Volvo, An Early Electric Car Adopter, Cuts Off Funding For Its EV Affiliate​

Move follows other retrenchments by big automakers as sentiment turns against EVs​

https://www.wsj.com/business/earnings/volvo-car-evaluating-potential-reduction-of-shareholding-in-polestar-85e29826?mod=djemalertNEWS

The stock is up 25% since this announcement.

 

[Ty Webb]

Volvo now

Volvo, An Early Electric Car Adopter, Cuts Off Funding For Its EV Affiliate​

Move follows other retrenchments by big automakers as sentiment turns against EVs​

https://www.wsj.com/business/earnings/volvo-car-evaluating-potential-reduction-of-shareholding-in-polestar-85e29826?mod=djemalertNEWS

Why even start Polestar in the first place? Why not just do what they are doing now which is start to develop and offer electric models of their existing lines? For example, they now will offer an electric model of their largest SUV the XC-90.

I must be missing something obvious here.

 

[RU-05]

Why even start Polestar in the first place? Why not just do what they are doing now which is start to develop and offer electric models of their existing lines? For example, they now will offer an electric model of their largest SUV the XC-90.

I must be missing something obvious here.

Maybe access to china manufacturing and market?

 

[RU-05]

Ford EV sales down in Jan compared to Dec.

Hybrid sales way up.

Those EV prices are going to come way down.

 

[fsg2]

Maybe access to china manufacturing and market?

I might be misunderstanding what you're saying, but Volvo's owned by Geely so has access to China baked in.

Polestar is an odd brand. It was originally its own brand with a performance tuning division for Volvo cars ...sort of like Alpina/BMW. Volvo then bought that division and brought it in-house, like an AMG or M. It spun it off into its current standalone electric brand not long thereafter. It's supposed to be the performance flagship (electric only) for Volvo Group but didn't feel publically well known enough to be established as such at first and doesn't feel that way years later. Feels like they'd be better off rolling those models into Volvo, then making high-performance Polestar trim.

Don't think Geely ownership has done the brand any favors, not here anyway. Neither did Polestar's hideous first cars. Their latest design language would have endeared them to the market better.

 

[RUAldo]

I might be misunderstanding what you're saying, but Volvo's owned by Geely so has access to China baked in.

Polestar is an odd brand. It was originally its own brand with a performance tuning division for Volvo cars ...sort of like Alpina/BMW. Volvo then bought that division and brought it in-house, like an AMG or M. It spun it off into its current standalone electric brand not long thereafter. It's supposed to be the performance flagship (electric only) for Volvo Group but didn't feel publically well known enough to be established as such at first and doesn't feel that way years later. Feels like they'd be better off rolling those models into Volvo, then making high-performance Polestar trim.

Don't think Geely ownership has done the brand any favors, not here anyway. Neither did Polestar's hideous first cars. Their latest design language would have endeared them to the market better.

I like Polestar EVs but seems to me leveraging the Volvo brand name would have been the right move. I would like to think execs had a good reason for trying to establish a new/separate brand identity.

 

[ashokan]

The stock is up 25% since this announcement.

Volvo showing signs of sanity and good improving management.
Gov kooks herded auto business over a cliff.
Now the wheels are coming off the wagon.

I don't even know if - that on top of US sacrificing its own economy and helping China's EV market - people realize US pays China to install scrubbers and such. The West just cant do much right anymore. There's always a new psychotic adventure to pursue where the only benefits go to US enemies and sketch allies.

The West’s humiliating electric car climbdown has begun

France’s President Macron had a plan to make millions of electric vehicles a year. Chancellor Scholz planned to put 15 million on Germany’s roads by 2030. President Biden trumped the lot with a $174bn (£138bn) plan to make the US the world leader. Even Boris Johnson – remember him – had a £1bn...

news.yahoo.com

 

[RU-05]

Volvo showing signs of sanity and good improving management.
Gov kooks herded auto business over a cliff.
Now the wheels are coming off the wagon.

I don't even know if - that on top of US sacrificing its own economy and helping China's EV market - people realize US pays China to install scrubbers and such. The West just cant do much right anymore. There's always a new psychotic adventure to pursue where the only benefits go to US enemies and sketch allies.

The West’s humiliating electric car climbdown has begun

France’s President Macron had a plan to make millions of electric vehicles a year. Chancellor Scholz planned to put 15 million on Germany’s roads by 2030. President Biden trumped the lot with a $174bn (£138bn) plan to make the US the world leader. Even Boris Johnson – remember him – had a £1bn...

news.yahoo.com

"The trouble with the industry right now is that demand is falling because the vehicles cost far more than anyone expected, and what market there is will be captured by Chinese manufacturers such as BYD that can make vehicles far more cheaply than anyone in the West can. The result? A lot of government money will be wasted.

There is a lesson in the humiliating climbdown. State-led industrial strategies never work."

Did China, who the author predicts will capture the majority of market share, not subsidize the industry?


Do we want China to dominate the worldwide market?

 

[mildone]

Volvo showing signs of sanity and good improving management.
Gov kooks herded auto business over a cliff.
Now the wheels are coming off the wagon.

I don't even know if - that on top of US sacrificing its own economy and helping China's EV market - people realize US pays China to install scrubbers and such. The West just cant do much right anymore. There's always a new psychotic adventure to pursue where the only benefits go to US enemies and sketch allies.

The West’s humiliating electric car climbdown has begun

France’s President Macron had a plan to make millions of electric vehicles a year. Chancellor Scholz planned to put 15 million on Germany’s roads by 2030. President Biden trumped the lot with a $174bn (£138bn) plan to make the US the world leader. Even Boris Johnson – remember him – had a £1bn...

news.yahoo.com

Why should anybody care what this columnist's/author's opinion about EVs or government is? His expertise is in writing articles for the media and writing books. How does that make him an expert on government, industry, or technology? This is a guy who predicted Apple wouldn't sell many iPhones.

And, if the intent is to educate or inform, why are you presenting his clearly one-sided viewpoint and not presenting any counterpoint? That's not being informative; it's selling narrative.

 

[Knight Shift]

Here's why US EV, hybrid sales rose year-over-year in 2023

EVs, PHEVs, and hybrids made up 16.3% of total light-duty vehicle (LDV) sales in the US in 2023 – Tesla's price cuts were a big reason.

electrek.co

 

[Knight Shift]

Interesting video from a guy who owned and sold an F150 Lightning. Guy lived in a townhouse/condo with no charging on site. Over 1.5 years, he spent $415 on charging total for 13,000 miles. That's about 3 cents per mile. Take those 13,000 miles and at 20 mpg for an ICE pickup, the fuel costs would run about $2500 over 18 months. This is for a person who drives under 9,000 miles per year. The savings add up. He had a variety of reasons why he sold his vehicle. Weird choices on financing at 5.5% and buying a silly dealer add on warranty (IMO, those are all snake oil sold by dealers). The EV haters club will chime in with a bunch of stuff, but this confirms the savings of owners who charge at home of about $2400/year.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Interesting video from a guy who owned and sold an F150 Lightning. Guy lived in a townhouse/condo with no charging on site. Over 1.5 years, he spent $415 on charging total for 13,000 miles. That's about 3 cents per mile. Take those 13,000 miles and at 20 mpg for an ICE pickup, the fuel costs would run about $2500 over 18 months. This is for a person who drives under 9,000 miles per year. The savings add up. He had a variety of reasons why he sold his vehicle. Weird choices on financing at 5.5% and buying a silly dealer add on warranty (IMO, those are all snake oil sold by dealers). The EV haters club will chime in with a bunch of stuff, but this confirms the savings of owners who charge at home of about $2400/year.

View embedded media

stop, you continue to look like such a fool

first off, you need as close a comparison of vehicles as you can get. EV trucks are grossly overpriced so you already lost on electricity argument because it's a zero sum game from the get go. In addition to that, the range sucks, the time to charge sucks, the change in battery based on temp sucks etc etc etc

EV blows in it's current format

 

[mildone]

stop, you continue to look like such a fool

first off, you need as close a comparison of vehicles as you can get. EV trucks are grossly overpriced so you already lost on electricity argument because it's a zero sum game from the get go. In addition to that, the range sucks, the time to charge sucks, the change in battery based on temp sucks etc etc etc

EV blows in it's current format

The guy you say looks like a fool at least posted some facts to support his opinions. You've posted nothing to contradict any of those facts. All you've posted are a bunch of personal opinions.

I don't own any EVs, there are 6 ICEVs at my house. I'm neither pro nor anti EV.

But, as someone who obviously prefers ICEVs to EVs at the moment, I'd say he's making his case far better than you are with your zero fact, pure opinion, no logic, lame insult approach.

Maybe try posting something more rooted in fact, with supporting evidence, and tied together which objective logic? Otherwise, he's not the one that looks like a fool.

 

[Rutgers NJ]

stop, you continue to look like such a fool

first off, you need as close a comparison of vehicles as you can get. EV trucks are grossly overpriced so you already lost on electricity argument because it's a zero sum game from the get go. In addition to that, the range sucks, the time to charge sucks, the change in battery based on temp sucks etc etc etc

EV blows in it's current format

 

[RUevolution36]

stop, you continue to look like such a fool

first off, you need as close a comparison of vehicles as you can get. EV trucks are grossly overpriced so you already lost on electricity argument because it's a zero sum game from the get go. In addition to that, the range sucks, the time to charge sucks, the change in battery based on temp sucks etc etc etc

EV blows in it's current format

don't want to burst your bubble, but an ICE 2024 F-150 XLT starts at $48k MSRP. an F-150 Lightning XLT starts at $55k. after tax credits and stuff, it comes out cheaper. if you don't like the other stuff, fine - that's your choice. but price isn't really an issue here.

 

[Knight Shift]

don't want to burst your bubble, but an ICE 2024 F-150 XLT starts at $48k MSRP. an F-150 Lightning XLT starts at $55k. after tax credits and stuff, it comes out cheaper. if you don't like the other stuff, fine - that's your choice. but price isn't really an issue here.

And no sales tax in NJ. Did my cost basis somewhere in this thread. Think I was $1800 over a comparably equipped ICE Lariat. Have more than made up for that in fuel savings, which will increase each year. It's an open question on depreciation, which I don't care about because I have no plans to sell anytime soon. Don't know what/whom you are responding to, but probably another angry, knuckle-dragging, uninformed turd with nothing to back up his angry rants. Hope they enjoy their anger and misery.

 

[mildone]

No, he really didn't. His post introduced no evidence or logic whatsoever. Just a bunch of personal opinion.

He referenced one fact (the price of EVs) and was obviously incorrect.

 

[fsg2]

No, he really didn't. His post introduced no evidence or logic whatsoever. Just a bunch of personal opinion.

He referenced one fact (the price of EVs) and was obviously incorrect.

And then he posts a meme of crushing a classic ICE vehicle. What an utter asslick.

 

[mildone]

Hookers and blow, baby. Woo hoo! 🤣

Tesla Board Members Asked Elon Musk To Go To Rehab: Report

Several current or former directors at Tesla party with Musk, some felt he pressured them to take drugs

jalopnik.com

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Hookers and blow, baby. Woo hoo! 🤣

Tesla Board Members Asked Elon Musk To Go To Rehab: Report

Several current or former directors at Tesla party with Musk, some felt he pressured them to take drugs

jalopnik.com

Love the intro mentioning his “outlandish compensation package.” It was laughed out of the room as outlandish and impossible to achieve when he signed it. Now it’s done a complete 180. What a show to watch.

 

[mildone]

Love the intro mentioning his “outlandish compensation package.” It was laughed out of the room as outlandish and impossible to achieve when he signed it. Now it’s done a complete 180. What a show to watch.

I'm confused. What's done a 180? I don't know much about it.

Pretty sure I read, a couple days back, that some judge agreed with the lawsuit and tossed the massive Musk compensation package out; saying it was unfair to shareholders. So, doesn't that mean that the people who laughed it out of the room were correct? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

I'm a shareholder but don't care what Musk pays himself nearly as much as getting him to stop tweeting stupid stuff, and stop saying stupid stuff on camera. In fact, I kind of wish he's just step down from the various businesses and focus on charitable efforts. Let some grown-ups run the companies. Then he can do as much hookers and blow as he wants, long as he funded some perpetual charitable organizations first.

 

[Caliknight]

Bunch of Estrogen Vehicles having issues in all this rain in Ca. Guess their batteries don't like getting a little wet.

Meanwhile the real men are driving around no problem. So great.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

I'm confused. What's done a 180? I don't know much about it.

Pretty sure I read, a couple days back, that some judge agreed with the lawsuit and tossed the massive Musk compensation package out; saying it was unfair to shareholders. So, doesn't that mean that the people who laughed it out of the room were correct? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

I'm a shareholder but don't care what Musk pays himself nearly as much as getting him to stop tweeting stupid stuff, and stop saying stupid stuff on camera. In fact, I kind of wish he's just step down from the various businesses and focus on charitable efforts. Let some grown-ups run the companies. Then he can do as much hookers and blow as he wants, long as he funded some perpetual charitable organizations first.

It was laughed out of the room when he signed it as impossible to achieve. He needed to raise the company’s value from $50 billion to $650 billion, amongst other measures. He was mocked at the time for signing such a deal.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Bunch of Estrogen Vehicles having issues in all this rain in Ca. Guess their batteries don't like getting a little wet.

Meanwhile the real men are driving around no problem. So great.

Mine is in the driveway safe and sound