OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
Sorry, I replied to the wrong post. That was meant for jtung230.
And yes, Porsche makes a beautiful car. Timeless design.
I don’t follow release dates but delaying the Tesla Roadster undoubtedly helped the Taycan. Musk should have made the Roadster a top priority IMO.
Not accurate. Germany plans to phase out coal completely by 2038 by expanding renewables.
Germany: Coal tops wind as main electricity source – DW – 09/13/2021
In the first half of 2021, coal shot up as the biggest contributor to Germany's electric grid, while wind power dropped to its lowest level since 2018. Officials say the weather is partly to blame.
www.dw.com
This article was from before the recent change in Chancellor who is only going to accelerate climate policy towards renewables.
Did you see the Q4 numbers? For model S/X, they made more than they could sell.
How does the roadster affect the taycan? One is a 2 door coupe/convertible and the other is a 4 door sedan.
He knows that Tesla wasn't producing the S during that time. It was posted here repeatedly when he posted the same false narrative months ago.
Did you see the full year numbers?
S/X production: 24,390
delivered: 24,964
You're making a conclusion about demand from a 3 month snap shot.
Did you go on the Tesla site and look at wait times for S/X?
Did you know that Tesla currently has only 4 days of inventory? That's insanely low for an auto manufacturer.
The only problem with demand is there's too much. Tesla has to keep raising prices to manage vehicle wait times.
You're wrong.... again.
Taycan would be fine with or without Roadster. The Roadster is waaaay down on the priority list as it should be. Cybertruck, Semi truck, compact all take priority over Roadster. Personally, I don't care if it ever gets made.
Because you'd never buy one? Or because you think it's unnecessary for the brand?
I think every brand needs a halo car... it gets ppl to engage with it before they even buy a car from that brand. And usually, it's a 2 door sportscar. Think 911, Nissan gtr, Mercedes amg gt, BMW m3, Acura nsx, every ferrari... these cars are also used to demonstrate the brands' ability on the track. The tesla Roadster could be one of these standard bearers...
China is going to be tough for Tesla in the long run. Chinese autos ramping up:
Nio reported December deliveries of 10,489 vehicles, up 50% from December 2020.
Xpeng exceeded estimates by delivering 16,000 vehicles in December, up 181% from a year earlier.
Li Auto delivered 14,087 electric vehicles in December, a gain of 130% year-over-year
Nio reported December deliveries of 10,489 vehicles, up 50% from December 2020.
Xpeng exceeded estimates by delivering 16,000 vehicles in December, up 181% from a year earlier.
Li Auto delivered 14,087 electric vehicles in December, a gain of 130% year-over-year
The EV “halo” car is where I was headed when comparing the Tesla roadster to Taycan.
I don’t know EVs as well as you but I can do simple math. If you are not delivering as many as you are producing in a quarter, then it’s a demand problem. The full year number was due to first quarter where they were able to sell 2000 UNSOLD S/X from 2020. If you look at the 3/Y, it’s clear demand isn’t an issue.
We don't need to keep doing this.
S/X deliveries will increase every quarter in 2022.
Unnecessary for the brand.
Tesla has it's halo car, the S Plaid.
I keep repeating myself that Tesla is severely battery constrained. Roadster will use Tesla's own 4680 cells which have not reach high volume production yet. And even when they do, priority goes to Austin Model Y, Cybertruck, Semi truck, and then Roadster. Don't expect the Roadster until 2023 at the earliest.
Tesla Shanghai production is up 214% year over year. And, Shanghai continues to expand. Phase 2 construction should be finished in Q2 this year bringing annual production capacity to ~1.3 million units (Shanghai only).
Plenty of room in the sandbox for everyone. Great to see EV adoption accelerating.
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It's funny how mad jung gets when there is good news on TSLA. He seems to have an unhealth addiction. LOL!
He keeps listening to the deranged lunatics and FUD that caused him to lose his shirt shorting TSLA. There's a 6 month wait for a Model S LR, but he says there's a demand problem. WTF? I don't get it. I'm honestly trying to help.
Not a troll. I actually was posting during the summer about electric car shortcomings. Ahter lots of research I have just changed my position.
Like the Lucid Air - the Taycan is not competition for the mainstream electric cars that Tesla is producing. Tesla is at least 4 years ahead of the mainstream legacy brands and that does not include the lead in autonomous driving which is light years ahead of the other companies. Todays sales numbers are just another indicator of where this is going. You and others on this thread can continue to deny it but you are all wrong and misinformed.
You just basically said what I said earlier just using different words. Tesla is going to have to decide if it wants to compete in the same market segment as Porsche, Mercedes, Lucid, etc. That market is more about profit margins than volume.
I said, in my post, that if Tesla wants to pivot a bit and compete in that segment, they should be able to do so, because they still have time and funding. But they will have to up their game in terms of build quality and luxuriousness.
If Tesla just wants to be the Toyota of EVs, and not compete with the luxury automakers, then they’ll eventually have to lower prices on the S, while still making improvements to build quality. The S is, IMO, currently priced based on having been the only player in the game. But that is no longer true.
Y’all can keep insisting there is no competition coming if you want. But it‘s a ridiculous, laughable, assertion.
Also, autonomous driving is unlikely to go anywhere until V2V (at least) is implemented. Tesla has an arguable lead in talking about it a lot. That’s it.
The conversation was about the model S. You decided to change the argument after the fact to be about mainstream vehicles. The beautiful thing about these message boards is that you can read the history. Your revisionism is a clear pivot to avoid admitting how wrong you are.
Not sure Toyota is a good benchmark. I think more BMW or MB. If they can match Toyota’s sales and maintain the margins, the stock could be a buy.
Regarding the Tesla Model S. Same applies to the X:
Tesla will produce 50K each annually. There is only 1 production line for these vehicles in the Fremont plant. There are currently no plans for expanding S/X production in any of the new factories.
So, it seems pretty clear a combinated total of 100K units/ year is the sweet spot Tesla is looking for from these 2 models. They'll have no problem selling every one with very high margin.
Tesla is all about increasing volume production. That's not going to happen with the S or X. Model Y, Model 3, Cybertruck, and the compact are the top priorities. S and X are side dishes.
Tesla will produce 50K each annually. There is only 1 production line for these vehicles in the Fremont plant. There are currently no plans for expanding S/X production in any of the new factories.
So, it seems pretty clear a combinated total of 100K units/ year is the sweet spot Tesla is looking for from these 2 models. They'll have no problem selling every one with very high margin.
Tesla is all about increasing volume production. That's not going to happen with the S or X. Model Y, Model 3, Cybertruck, and the compact are the top priorities. S and X are side dishes.
I'm not talking about benchmarks (and don't care about Tesla stock at all).
I'm talking about Tesla figuring out how they want to adapt pricing, quality, marketing, sales methods, etc. as market conditions change driven by the competition heating up quickly across all market segments. I think it will be kind of interesting to see what they do.
For example, based on what I read in luxury automaker forums, Tesla will either need to upgrade the Model S significantly in terms of luxury and build quality, and presumably raise prices a bunch, or else leave it alone and drop prices some.
So it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.
I agree that selling high volume on the S isn't likely a focus for Tesla.
But as the competition heats up in the luxury segment, I feel pretty sure Tesla will either have to adjust luxuriousness and price upwards on the S, or leave things as they are and lower prices some. One or the other. Otherwise they might find it harder to sell than it was when there was no competition near the current price point.
This is based solely on what I read from Tesla owners who participate in Porsche/MB/BMW/Audi forums. Lots of those folks think nothing of spending $300K on a car. So higher prices is not an issue for them. But perceived build quality and luxuriousness, and brand perception, are all issues for them.
But who knows? We'll see in 5 short years or so.
Benchmark in terms of price point and segmentation, not stock price. I think Tesla can sell enough S to keep it going but the X won’t make. Just my opinion.
Mercedes EQXX concept achieves 1000km target on single charge
Experimental concept previews new battery and aero tech, with some impressive stats
www.carmagazine.co.uk
Tesla Model 3, Model Y Got New Battery Chemistry, and Here's What It Means
Tesla quietly offered a new, cheaper battery chemistry; here’s why it’s important.
This is a major factor in Tesla's massive Q4 delivery surprise. Short term, Tesla production is hampered by semiconductor shortages. That appears to be easing. Long term, Tesla remains battery cell constrained. The pivot to LFP battery cells (supplied by CATL) in all standard range vehicles will allow Tesla to remain on it's exponential growth path.Tesla Model 3, Model Y Got New Battery Chemistry, and Here's What It Means
Tesla quietly offered a new, cheaper battery chemistry; here’s why it’s important.www.caranddriver.com
LFP (lithium, iron, phosphate) cells are not as energy dense as nickel and cobalt cells, however, LFP cells are cheaper, iron (the main component of the cell) is vastly more abundant vs nickel and cobalt, and LFP cells can be charged to 100% and discharged to ~0% regularly without any degradation to the pack.
If the "competition" is coming, which many here see as a foregone conclusion, they'll need to do the same pivot and incorporate LFPs into their vehicle lineups.
They clearly want to (and will IMO) dominate the EV market in mainstream vehicles but I also think they are creating their own brand image that does not fit into the usual Toyota vs Porsche comparison. They are simply killing it and without another round of government help I sadly think GM is going to be in deep trouble. Ford may be able to make it because they have a leader that understand what is going on.
There seems to be a veritable shit-ton of research into battery tech across the various automakers, but also outside the automotive world. At this stage, given supply constraints, it seems almost obvious that most/all automakers will converge on battery tech that sources more readily available components, which I think is what you're saying, so I agree - what else can anybody do?
I think it's pretty exciting to see all this increasing focus on energy R&D, including battery tech.
Oh, and it's competition, not "competition". IBM once referred to the other computer companies as their "competition" too. That arrogance was their downfall. "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" - Churchill.
And of course it's a forgone conclusion. The competition in the luxury segment is already making noteworthy progress despite how late to the game they are.
The pickup truck market shares a similar sort of brand loyalty and profitability to the luxury segment, and we can all see what Ford's doing. GM and Dodge will not fail to become players as well and for the same reasons. If Tesla insists on pushing out the polarizingly-styled cyber truck as it's truck offering, it will just make it that much easier for the big three pickup makers to transition their usual dominance of the truck market from ICEs to EVs.
It is very dumb to be arrogant about being the best in a game in which their is only one competitor. It's even dumber to dismiss late-to-the game competition due to that same arrogance.
Ford really rolling—
www.wsj.com
Ford Shares Hit Two-Decade High on Raised Plans for F-150 Electric Pickup
Ford said the increased production plans reflect high demand for the model. Shares of Ford hit two-decade highs.
www.wsj.com
Ford really rolling—
Ford Shares Hit Two-Decade High on Raised Plans for F-150 Electric Pickup
Ford said the increased production plans reflect high demand for the model. Shares of Ford hit two-decade highs.
I already posted about this.
GM rolls out the Electric Silverado tomorrow and will start taking pre-orders the same day.
www.thedrive.com
Chevy Silverado EV Reservations Will Open Right After Wednesday's Reveal
The reveal will come one day after Ford announced an increase in F-150 Lightning production and re-opening order banks due to "soaring demand."
www.thedrive.com
Do your homework on battery cell supply chain, supplier contracts, and in-house battery production. Then compare.
