ADVERTISEMENT

OT: Electric vehicles

Looks like the new Target being built near me will have charging stations in their parking lot.

And according to an article in the local weekly, my town will be having them too at some point.
Saw that. Hope the revving engines of all those EVs don't disturb the residents of Camelot across the tracks. 😜
Think that some are going in Asbury Park too. Much needed, as the outlet mall charging stations are often quite busy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mildone
Kinda like the hissy fits that are still going on about Trump? Welllll, yea.
So, like I keep saying, and partisans on both sides keep trying to deny, both sides are 100% identical in their behavior. Including all the silly hissy fits.

Of course, if you partisans actually enjoy living your entire lives dangling from the puppet strings of special interests, shouting at the moon with no reply, and leaping from one manufactured scandal to the next, chasing the "bad guys" around a mouse wheel, then by all means, have fun with that.

As always, I'll pass, thanks. The water is so nice in the independent pool. Always the right temperature. Never any need for hissy fits. No 24/7 demonization feed about "the others" to rile us up.

Y'all should jump right in. You won't. But you should.
 
  • Like
Reactions: robcac26
Looks like the new Target being built near me will have charging stations in their parking lot.

And according to an article in the local weekly, my town will be having them too at some point.

Saw that. Hope the revving engines of all those EVs don't disturb the residents of Camelot across the tracks. 😜
Think that some are going in Asbury Park too. Much needed, as the outlet mall charging stations are often quite busy.

I think we'll be seeing more and more news along those lines. Kind of have to if anybody's going to get remotely close to their stated electrification goals. Infrastructure will be everything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Knight Shift
Honda and GM both throwing the Hail Mary. Bit of a head scratcher when you consider neither of these companies are constrained by size. I think we'll see more auto makers desperately try to figure out a way to make electrification happen. Mary Barra continues to lie to shareholders by saying GM will surpass Tesla in 2025 by selling 2 million EVs. Someone needs to tell Mary that Tesla's current production capacity is greater than 2 million vehicles.

Another thing that stood out about the joint venture, slated to start production in 2027, is vehicles will use GM's Ultium battery platform, a technology that is already outdated. The future of battery packs is not modules; it's cell to pack. Modules are heavy and add unnecessary cost and complexity to manufacturing. Another example of how the dinosaurs of the auto industry continue to struggle with rapidly evolving technology.

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...tnership-around-electric-vehicles-2022-04-05/
 
So, like I keep saying, and partisans on both sides keep trying to deny, both sides are 100% identical in their behavior. Including all the silly hissy fits.

Of course, if you partisans actually enjoy living your entire lives dangling from the puppet strings of special interests, shouting at the moon with no reply, and leaping from one manufactured scandal to the next, chasing the "bad guys" around a mouse wheel, then by all means, have fun with that.

As always, I'll pass, thanks. The water is so nice in the independent pool. Always the right temperature. Never any need for hissy fits. No 24/7 demonization feed about "the others" to rile us up.

Y'all should jump right in. You won't. But you should.
Did I ever say both sides don't have hissy fits? Btw I voted for Jo Jorgensen for president in 2020. Both Trump and Brandon SUCK BALLS! I am hoping nether of them run in 2024! GOD help us if either one of those D'bags win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! P.S. , lets not forget that Dems actually did shout at the sky 1 year after Trump was elected. Remember?
 
  • Like
Reactions: mildone
Saw that. Hope the revving engines of all those EVs don't disturb the residents of Camelot across the tracks. 😜
Think that some are going in Asbury Park too. Much needed, as the outlet mall charging stations are often quite busy.
Just ordered my home charger for LBI. Wonder if I can charge desperate vacationers an astronomical fee to charge up?
 
Honda and GM both throwing the Hail Mary. Bit of a head scratcher when you consider neither of these companies are constrained by size. I think we'll see more auto makers desperately try to figure out a way to make electrification happen. Mary Barra continues to lie to shareholders by saying GM will surpass Tesla in 2025 by selling 2 million EVs. Someone needs to tell Mary that Tesla's current production capacity is greater than 2 million vehicles.

Another thing that stood out about the joint venture, slated to start production in 2027, is vehicles will use GM's Ultium battery platform, a technology that is already outdated. The future of battery packs is not modules; it's cell to pack. Modules are heavy and add unnecessary cost and complexity to manufacturing. Another example of how the dinosaurs of the auto industry continue to struggle with rapidly evolving technology.

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...tnership-around-electric-vehicles-2022-04-05/
You think Tesla will produce 2mm cars this year?
 
Did I ever say both sides don't have hissy fits? Btw I voted for Jo Jorgensen for president in 2020. Both Trump and Brandon SUCK BALLS! I am hoping nether of them run in 2024! GOD help us if either one of those D'bags win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! P.S. , lets not forget that Dems actually did shout at the sky 1 year after Trump was elected. Remember?
Far as I’m concerned, pretty much all presidents have been average or slightly below. And average ain’t great. I do think Trump was the worst of the lot. But say what you will about him; that boy sure was entertaining. Most fun I’ve ever had with politics.

Nobody good ever runs anymore. Anybody who would run for president has got to have major personality disorders. What sane and stable person would ever want the job?

Maybe I’m too cynical, but the line-up of folks who run has been really pretty awful, from what I can see.

I should run. My platform will be to put two hookers in every garage. Gigolos for the ladies. Then legalize it all.

I’d win by a landslide.
 
  • Like
Reactions: goru1869
Based on their 50% YOY guidance, should be at least 2.25mm or bust. But don’t you think GM also has the production capacity? At this point, isn’t it about materials/parts.
No. That's the pervasive falsehood that we've been hearing over and over since the 2012 Model S was launched. "The competition is coming" and "the next Tesla killer". 10 years and still waiting.

It's about software and hardware engineering talent and manufacturing expertise. It's about being able to change rapidly as technology evolves. Something legacy auto never had to do. I've been saying for 2 years on this board that ICE and EVs are not the same. The evidence speaks for itself.
 
"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it" (George Bernard Shaw)
I just went and read a few more Shaw quotes. He and I might've gotten along pretty well, seeing as how we seem to share an aversion to cultish adoration of any of our fellow humans. On the other hand, he seemed to be a somewhat serious fellow and I'm, uh, seriousness-challenged.
 
No. That's the pervasive falsehood that we've been hearing over and over since the 2012 Model S was launched. "The competition is coming" and "the next Tesla killer". 10 years and still waiting.

It's about software and hardware engineering talent and manufacturing expertise. It's about being able to change rapidly as technology evolves. Something legacy auto never had to do. I've been saying for 2 years on this board that ICE and EVs are not the same. The evidence speaks for itself.
Seems like all the automakers have EVs that are in high demand. They just can’t produce it due to part shortages. Sure, the ICE will allocate parts to the money making side 1st. but when parts become more available I think there will be a lot of EVs on the road and it’ll be a good mix of brands.
 
Seems like all the automakers have EVs that are in high demand. They just can’t produce it due to part shortages. Sure, the ICE will allocate parts to the money making side 1st. but when parts become more available I think there will be a lot of EVs on the road and it’ll be a good mix of brands.
I hope you're right.
 
Seems like all the automakers have EVs that are in high demand. They just can’t produce it due to part shortages. Sure, the ICE will allocate parts to the money making side 1st. but when parts become more available I think there will be a lot of EVs on the road and it’ll be a good mix of brands.
It is so much more than shortages - otherwise why would tesla be growing more than 50% a year in volume, all the while GM , the self proclaimed leader, produced 457 cars in Q1?
 
  • Like
Reactions: LBusDoor90
No. That's the pervasive falsehood that we've been hearing over and over since the 2012 Model S was launched. "The competition is coming" and "the next Tesla killer". 10 years and still waiting.

It's about software and hardware engineering talent and manufacturing expertise. It's about being able to change rapidly as technology evolves. Something legacy auto never had to do. I've been saying for 2 years on this board that ICE and EVs are not the same. The evidence speaks for itself.
You nailed this - completely different skill set. Many in this thread just don't want to see it.

I am sure they also laughed at Space X. I can still hear the "wait until Boeing gets in the game". Last I looked that was 12 years ago and we are still waiting
 
It is so much more than shortages - otherwise why would tesla be growing more than 50% a year in volume, all the while GM , the self proclaimed leader, produced 457 cars in Q1?
50% is a great number but 310k in 3 months isn’t that impressive. The ICE automakers are allocating parts to more profitable units right now. They make more than 300k cars per month.
 
2 factors will determine the adoption of EV.

1. gas prices
2. Govt subsidies
3. Infrastructure.

A lack of infrastructure improvement that keeps pace with EV adoption will create a period in which there's a lot of frustration for some folks. Americans aren't so great at ensuring such frustrations and we could see a resurgence of ICE or hybrid sales.

But... Infrastructure improvements seem highly likely to happen at an accelerating rate. So perhaps that period of frustration will be avoided.
 
2 factors will determine the adoption of EV.

1. gas prices
2. Govt subsidies
Don't expect any more subsidies. The EV momentum has exceeded expectations. Most eople no longer need to be convinced that EVs are the future. Plus, we've printed enough money.

Engineering and manufacturing expertise don't make your list? Why would GM and Honda announce a partnership?
 
Don't expect any more subsidies. The EV momentum has exceeded expectations. Most eople no longer need to be convinced that EVs are the future. Plus, we've printed enough money.

Engineering and manufacturing expertise don't make your list? Why would GM and Honda announce a partnership?
Most people can’t afford the cheapest EV. Most opt for hybrid due to cost. There will be plenty govt subsidy for EVs to come. Not for model S or Taycan but cheaper models.
 
Lexus joining the moronic yoke trend.

This is my problem with newer cars, some things are obviously better with modern technology, but then they change things just for the sake of changing things and make them worse. I look forward to owning an EV, but I don't want to use a touchscreen tablet to change the music, I don't need a digital display, I don't see the point in keyless ignition, etc. All these things just add cost without adding functionality. Especially the touchscreen controls, just give me regular old buttons and knobs that I can feel without taking my eyes off the road, even moreso when it's raining and my hands are wet. I used to work at a Volvo dealership as a side hustle, and going from the over-technologized fresh-off-the-truck Volvos to my 2005 Subaru at the end of each shift was such a relief. I know, I'm old now.
 
I just went and read a few more Shaw quotes. He and I might've gotten along pretty well, seeing as how we seem to share an aversion to cultish adoration of any of our fellow humans. On the other hand, he seemed to be a somewhat serious fellow and I'm, uh, seriousness-challenged.
Would you please stop talking about yourself?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: mildone
This is my problem with newer cars, some things are obviously better with modern technology, but then they change things just for the sake of changing things and make them worse. I look forward to owning an EV, but I don't want to use a touchscreen tablet to change the music, I don't need a digital display, I don't see the point in keyless ignition, etc. All these things just add cost without adding functionality. Especially the touchscreen controls, just give me regular old buttons and knobs that I can feel without taking my eyes off the road, even moreso when it's raining and my hands are wet. I used to work at a Volvo dealership as a side hustle, and going from the over-technologized fresh-off-the-truck Volvos to my 2005 Subaru at the end of each shift was such a relief. I know, I'm old now.
You don't think you want keyless entry and keyless stay until you have it. Then you'll need get want to go back. Buttons and knobs don't work for the audio controls because there's too many options for how to receive music/ media now. That said, buttons and knobs for volume, temperature, and fan control make me happy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rutgers Chris
You don't think you want keyless entry and keyless stay until you have it. Then you'll need get want to go back. Buttons and knobs don't work for the audio controls because there's too many options for how to receive music/ media now. That said, buttons and knobs for volume, temperature, and fan control make me happy.
I felt the same way about keyless until I had it, couldn’t agree more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: knightinaz
This is my problem with newer cars, some things are obviously better with modern technology, but then they change things just for the sake of changing things and make them worse. I look forward to owning an EV, but I don't want to use a touchscreen tablet to change the music, I don't need a digital display, I don't see the point in keyless ignition, etc. All these things just add cost without adding functionality. Especially the touchscreen controls, just give me regular old buttons and knobs that I can feel without taking my eyes off the road, even moreso when it's raining and my hands are wet. I used to work at a Volvo dealership as a side hustle, and going from the over-technologized fresh-off-the-truck Volvos to my 2005 Subaru at the end of each shift was such a relief. I know, I'm old now.
You're forgetting about voice commands. I can't speak for other EVs, but Tesla has over 170 different voice commands (and constantly growing) for you to control just about everything while you're driving. The software is incredibly intuitive too. I can say the same command 5 different ways, and the car understands. Great for those uncomfortable with controlling everything through the central touch screen. That said, once you get the hang of the central touch screen it's quick and easy to navigate.

More of a personal preference would be the aesthetics of the central touch screen vs dozens of knobs and buttons all over the place. Personally, I think it looks so much more modern and clean.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lne001
You're forgetting about voice commands. I can't speak for other EVs, but Tesla has over 170 different voice commands (and constantly growing) for you to control just about everything while you're driving. The software is incredibly intuitive too. I can say the same command 5 different ways, and the car understands. Great for those uncomfortable with controlling everything through the central touch screen. That said, once you get the hang of the central touch screen it's quick and easy to navigate.

More of a personal preference would be the aesthetics of the central touch screen vs dozens of knobs and buttons all over the place. Personally, I think it looks so much more modern and clean.
I like the command center screen as well, but do still prefer having some tactile buttons/knobs on the steering wheel or center stack for being able to keep eyes up on the road and still manage things like audio feed, temp control, etc. ALso, FWIW, some folks still feel weird about talking to their devices. So not everyone is going to be into voice control.
 
Would you please stop talking about yourself?
Oh, absolutely. As of this moment, I'll never talk about myself again. Not even once. I swear it.

Because it matters deeply, to me, what you think. I wake up every day and my first thought is, how can I comport myself in such a way that my behavior meets with Eagleton96's approval. I lose sleep each night, knowing that I've probably posted something online that falls short of your expectations.

When I was but a wee lad, I would dream that, one day, a hero would appear in my life. Someone who would reach out and decide for me how and what I should contribute to the internet. So, really, your post has been a life-long dream come true for me. I can't imagine letting you down in any way.

To be perfectly honest, I really don't know how I'll sleep tonight, knowing that I haven't lived up to the goals you've established for my life. I'm practically beside myself, wracked with guilt, and more than a little grief, that I've broken your, to-date unspoken, rules for my behavior.

Alas, I lack discipline and I know that, despite my every intention to strictly adhere to your guidelines forever, I may, occasionally, slip up and use an "I" or a "me" in my posts. But please, please, please, please, whatever you do, please do NOT put me ignore when I make that rare mistake and talk about myself. Know that with my every waking breath, I shall endeavor to be the kind of internet forum poster that you want me to be.

I just couldn't possibly live without knowing you're out there somewhere, hanging on my every post. What would my life be if you, my hero, isn't reading my every word and critiquing it? So don't put me on ignore even when I slip-up and talk about my thoughts, or my opinions, or my standards, or my sex life, or the color of my poop, or all that other stuff that's entirely all about me.

In conclusion, please accept my my sincere apologies for my posts, and allow to express my heartfelt gratitude for your truly thoughtful and heroic post. We all need that person in our lives that tells us what we need to hear. And you are that person for me.

Thanks again and never stop policing my posts.


P.S. Point of clarification. I get that I'm not allowed to talk about myself at all and I shall rigorously adhere to that rule. But does that rule also apply to mildone talking about himself in the third person? Like, what if mildone has multiple personality disorder and he talks about himself in the third person? Seems like mildone doing that wouldn't really be talking about himself; he'd be talking about me, which would be okay.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: goru1869
This is my problem with newer cars, some things are obviously better with modern technology, but then they change things just for the sake of changing things and make them worse. I look forward to owning an EV, but I don't want to use a touchscreen tablet to change the music, I don't need a digital display, I don't see the point in keyless ignition, etc. All these things just add cost without adding functionality. Especially the touchscreen controls, just give me regular old buttons and knobs that I can feel without taking my eyes off the road, even moreso when it's raining and my hands are wet. I used to work at a Volvo dealership as a side hustle, and going from the over-technologized fresh-off-the-truck Volvos to my 2005 Subaru at the end of each shift was such a relief. I know, I'm old now.
Agree about touchscreens, they seem pretty distracting which is the opposite of what we should be doing to drivers. Touchscreens look cool and modern, kind of like the moronic yoke. But in both cases, they are pretty much antipatterns for actual usability when driving.

But keyless start (and especially remote keyless start in cold climates) is pretty nice. As was stated above, once you experience the whole keyless thing, you kind of never want a car without that feature.
 
Oh, absolutely. As of this moment, I'll never talk about myself again. Not even once. I swear it.

Because it matters deeply, to me, what you think. I wake up every day and my first thought is, how can I comport myself in such a way that my behavior meets with Eagleton96's approval. I lose sleep each night, knowing that I've probably posted something online that falls short of your expectations.

When I was but a wee lad, I would dream that, one day, a hero would appear in my life. Someone who would reach out and decide for me how and what I should contribute to the internet. So, really, your post has been a life-long dream come true for me. I can't imagine letting you down in any way.

To be perfectly honest, I really don't know how I'll sleep tonight, knowing that I haven't lived up to the goals you've established for my life. I'm practically beside myself, wracked with guilt, and more than a little grief, that I've broken your, to-date unspoken, rules for my behavior.

Alas, I lack discipline and I know that, despite my every intention to strictly adhere to your guidelines forever, I may, occasionally, slip up and use an "I" or a "me" in my posts. But please, please, please, please, whatever you do, please do NOT put me ignore when I make that rare mistake and talk about myself. Know that with my every waking breath, I shall endeavor to be the kind of internet forum poster that you want me to be.

I just couldn't possibly live without knowing you're out there somewhere, hanging on my every post. What would my life be if you, my hero, isn't reading my every word and critiquing it? So don't put me on ignore even when I slip-up and talk about my thoughts, or my opinions, or my standards, or my sex life, or the color of my poop, or all that other stuff that's entirely all about me.

In conclusion, please accept my my sincere apologies for my posts, and allow to express my heartfelt gratitude for your truly thoughtful and heroic post. We all need that person in our lives that tells us what we need to hear. And you are that person for me.

Thanks again and never stop policing my posts.


P.S. Point of clarification. I get that I'm not allowed to talk about myself at all and I shall rigorously adhere to that rule. But does that rule also apply to mildone talking about himself in the third person? Like, what if mildone has multiple personality disorder and he talks about himself in the third person? Seems like mildone doing that wouldn't really be talking about himself; he'd be talking about me, which would be okay.
So many words
 
I gotta think that (tons of orders, but increasingly delayed deliveries) will be pretty common for at least another year, maybe more, across a bunch of automakers. Be nice if demand levels off or drops some, so prices will drop back into a less nutty range.

It's kind of a bad time to be buying new or used cars.
Ford is honoring prices at the time of order, not delivery so I am very happy about that. I think Ford knows exactly what a grand slam they hit with the $20,000 price point and will have little to no price increase for the 2023 Maverick. Every so often I will stop by a For Sale truck in front of someone’s home. Usually those are a decent price over used car lots. Not right now. Used car prices are insane.
 
You don't think you want keyless entry and keyless stay until you have it. Then you'll need get want to go back. Buttons and knobs don't work for the audio controls because there's too many options for how to receive music/ media now. That said, buttons and knobs for volume, temperature, and fan control make me happy.

You're forgetting about voice commands. I can't speak for other EVs, but Tesla has over 170 different voice commands (and constantly growing) for you to control just about everything while you're driving. The software is incredibly intuitive too. I can say the same command 5 different ways, and the car understands. Great for those uncomfortable with controlling everything through the central touch screen. That said, once you get the hang of the central touch screen it's quick and easy to navigate.

More of a personal preference would be the aesthetics of the central touch screen vs dozens of knobs and buttons all over the place. Personally, I think it looks so much more modern and clean.

Agree about touchscreens, they seem pretty distracting which is the opposite of what we should be doing to drivers. Touchscreens look cool and modern, kind of like the moronic yoke. But in both cases, they are pretty much antipatterns for actual usability when driving.

But keyless start (and especially remote keyless start in cold climates) is pretty nice. As was stated above, once you experience the whole keyless thing, you kind of never want a car without that feature.
Eh I don't care for voice commands, having devices always listening to me still weirds me out. Even if the touchscreen is quick to get used to, you still can't use it without looking at it as easily as you can with buttons and knobs because the whole screen feels the same. I can change the music, climate control, etc in my car without ever taking my eyes off the road just like I can send texts and emails much faster with my BlackBerry's physical keyboard than with a touchscreen phone. Touchscreens may look cleaner, but they are a step backwards as far as functionality goes. Also, this may be set up differently with different manufacturers, but when I was working at the Volvo dealership, I found it incredibly annoying that it took multiple "button" presses to navigate through the touchscreen interface to get to the controls you wanted. You can't change the music and change the temperature from the same screen. With the old-fashioned way, everything is immediately accessible.

As for keyless start, I suppose I should specify--I can see the usefulness of being able to warm your car up before you get outside. My only experience with keyless was with Volvos, which I'm pretty sure couldn't be started unless the key fob was in the immediate area of the car. There was a start button inside the car that you needed to press and it would only work if you had the key on you, so really the only difference was that you didn't insert the key and turn it, just extra technology for the sake of extra technology. Hopefully this has been completely replaced by remote starting by now.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT