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OT: Electric vehicles

You mean it‘s less likely than an off-road ICE vehicle with the same basic proportions. The location of weight in the vehicle is only one variable. There are many variables involved in determining absolute probability of an off-roading rollover.

Driving too fast on extreme terrain makes a rollover far more likely than driving slowly. The center of gravity of the vehicle could be an inch about the ground and, with so little clearance, that might cause the vehicle to beach itself on a bump (with all four wheels off the ground) landing hard on one corner of the undercarriage and flip over.

EV batteries (or gas tanks) aren’t known for their performance as part of a compliant suspension.

Teslas are 4WD, but aren't really designed for off-road travel. The new Ford and GM trucks and Rivians will be better suited for off-road travel. The Teslas don't have enough clearance. However, the Tesla Model Y had the lowest rollover risk of any SUV for the 2021 models. (Don't take my word on this last statement - the info is easily obtained online.)

BTW, I've owned a couple of Jeeps in the past - specifically to go four-wheeling. ANYONE driving fast on extreme terrain is probably an idiot unless they are a Marlon Perkins safari person trying to outrun an angry hippo. Virtually every off-roader I encountered drives hard terrain slowly.
 
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Teslas are 4WD, but aren't really designed for off-road travel. The new Ford and GM trucks and Rivians will be better suited for off-road travel. The Teslas don't have enough clearance. However, the Tesla Model Y had the lowest rollover risk of any SUV for the 2021 models. (Don't take my word on this last statement - the info is easily obtained online.)

BTW, I've owned a couple of Jeeps in the past - specifically to go four-wheeling. ANYONE driving fast on extreme terrain is probably an idiot unless they are a Marlon Perkins safari person trying to outrun and angry hippo. Virtually every off-roader I encountered drives hard terrain slowly.
Wait, you said don’t feed the trolls in one post but agreed with me in this post. Which is it?
 
Just received an invite to preview the F150 Lighting at the NYIAS for being on the waitlist.
 
Teslas are 4WD, but aren't really designed for off-road travel. The new Ford and GM trucks and Rivians will be better suited for off-road travel. The Teslas don't have enough clearance. However, the Tesla Model Y had the lowest rollover risk of any SUV for the 2021 models. (Don't take my word on this last statement - the info is easily obtained online.)

BTW, I've owned a couple of Jeeps in the past - specifically to go four-wheeling. ANYONE driving fast on extreme terrain is probably an idiot unless they are a Marlon Perkins safari person trying to outrun and angry hippo. Virtually every off-roader I encountered drives hard terrain slowly.
Agreed.
 
Unexpected development.
I can order the F150 Lightning I reserved.
Two base models are sold out, and would need to go for Lariat. With options and extended range, it is pricey.
Questions:
1. Would the F150 Lightning qualify for the full $7500 Tax Credit? -- I think so.


2. Did I read the NJ Tax regs that there would be ZERO sales tax? - I think so.

3. Would I have to wait until truck arrives to see if there are other NJ incentives?

4. Take the F150, or wait for the Silverado EV? --I think @BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap thought the Silverado was ridiculously heavy with batteries. The F150 Extended range is 6,590 pounds,which is less than the Silverado at 8,000 lbs, and less than the Rivian R1T and a lot less than the GMC Hummer EV. But the flex tailgate of the Chevy Silverado is so cool looking and functional. Edmunds says the charge rate on the F150 is 54 miles in 10 minutes, while Silverado is 100 miles in 10 minutes on a fast charger.

5. Wait 2-3 more years for the next generation?

NJ Tax:

Fed Tax:

Comparison
 
Unexpected development.
I can order the F150 Lightning I reserved.
Two base models are sold out, and would need to go for Lariat. With options and extended range, it is pricey.
Questions:
1. Would the F150 Lightning qualify for the full $7500 Tax Credit? -- I think so.


2. Did I read the NJ Tax regs that there would be ZERO sales tax? - I think so.

3. Would I have to wait until truck arrives to see if there are other NJ incentives?

4. Take the F150, or wait for the Silverado EV? --I think @BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap thought the Silverado was ridiculously heavy with batteries. The F150 Extended range is 6,590 pounds,which is less than the Silverado at 8,000 lbs, and less than the Rivian R1T and a lot less than the GMC Hummer EV. But the flex tailgate of the Chevy Silverado is so cool looking and functional. Edmunds says the charge rate on the F150 is 54 miles in 10 minutes, while Silverado is 100 miles in 10 minutes on a fast charger.

5. Wait 2-3 more years for the next generation?

NJ Tax:

Fed Tax:

Comparison
Did they tell you how long the wait is if you want the base model?

you get the 7500 fed tax credit and no sales tax on EV. The NJ EV rebate ran out of money last summer. Not sure they’ll do a 3rd round but the Lariat wouldn’t qualify because of price.
 
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Did they tell you how long the wait is if you want the base model?

you get the 7500 fed tax credit and no sales tax on EV. The NJ EV rebate ran out of money last summer. Not sure they’ll do a 3rd round but the Lariat wouldn’t qualify because of price.
It was kind of fuzzy.
I think I wanted a Lariat anyway.

The two biggest items now are should I wait for the Chevy to come out to compare, or wait another couple of years for the next generation of EVs to come out?
As has been discussed here, 320 miles of range is plenty for everyday driving and charging up in the garage. 320 miles of range may be decent for driving down to Florida, and we could probably tolerate slower charging by stopping for lunch/shopping, while we charge.
 
It was kind of fuzzy.
I think I wanted a Lariat anyway.

The two biggest items now are should I wait for the Chevy to come out to compare, or wait another couple of years for the next generation of EVs to come out?
As has been discussed here, 320 miles of range is plenty for everyday driving and charging up in the garage. 320 miles of range may be decent for driving down to Florida, and we could probably tolerate slower charging by stopping for lunch/shopping, while we charge.
Based on the current supply/demand dynamic, take the delivery. If you don’t like it, you can probably sell it at break even. Keep yourself on the list for the Silverado just in case. Also, I got an invite to test drive the F150 lighting at the NY auto show in May if you want to check it out.
 
Based on the current supply/demand dynamic, take the delivery. If you don’t like it, you can probably sell it at break even. Keep yourself on the list for the Silverado just in case. Also, I got an invite to test drive the F150 lighting at the NY auto show in May if you want to check it out.
I went to an event outside of Philadelphia in the fall where they drove me around the track. I think I'm good with what I saw/experienced. I need to order by the end of the month.
 
I went to an event outside of Philadelphia in the fall where they drove me around the track. I think I'm good with what I saw/experienced. I need to order by the end of the month.
Almost certain you can flip it for a profit at this point. Good luck and write a review after taking delivery.
 
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Apparently, the Model S Tesla Plaid (stock, at least) has handling problems at high speeds. Braking problems as well, although a 20K carbon ceramic brake option appears likely to be offered at some point.

Breaking is the weakness for all EVs because of the weight.
 
Just watched a video of a Tesla and a pickup going through a green light when a car ran the red.

The Tesla automatically stopped and the car went right past it and plowed into the pickup.

It was an impressive display of a safety feature
 
Just watched a video of a Tesla and a pickup going through a green light when a car ran the red.

The Tesla automatically stopped and the car went right past it and plowed into the pickup.

It was an impressive display of a safety feature
Just a few days ago, I was at a four way stop, with a car coming up the road perpendicular to me. I'd arrived and stopped long before the other car got close. But as I was about to go and had started rolling from the stop because I had the right of way, I realized the other car was actually accelerating so I braked again. And sure enough the other car blasted through the intersection, probably doing close to 50mph (these were residential streets, all 25 mph).

I've also avoided several accidents over the years where cars blew through red lights. Another thing I do, on the highway, is note when cars in the middle or right lane are catching up to slower moving vehicles, so I can anticipate them moving into the lane ahead of me which people sometimes forget to check for incoming cars before switching lanes.

All this stuff is part of defensive driving, right? We should drive, at all times, as if someone around you is going to do something massively stupid. But I've noticed that lots and lots of drivers fail to be that alert and drive as if having the right of way means not having to pay attention or worry. And people being human, and easily distracted, sometimes people just make mistakes.

So I applaud the advent of tech in cars that can help alert unalert drivers to potential problems and protect us against our own human foibles. However, at present, I'm still more a fan of driver assistance tech than of fully automated driving tech. The tech for lane-change alerts, or blind spot monitoring, or intersection situational awareness such as what the aforementioned Tesla did and could've warned the driver, had their been one, is best employed as alerts to a human driver.

Because the fully automated driving tech still isn't nearly good enough to not to cause problems of it's own. There's a technological barrier to the approaches used that won't be overcome until we get v2v and v2i.

The best solution, IMO, is one in which both the driver and the car's software and sensors are combined to effectively work as a team. The problem is, human nature is such that if the car is doing all the driving, the driver will eventually fail to remain properly alert and the cooperation between car and driver becomes less effective.

Thus I'm still convinced that the driver should drive and the car should combine it's vigilance into the mix, enhancing the human driver's abilities, rather than replacing the human. That system of cooperation doesn't attempt to dismiss human nature and instead produces a best of both worlds solution.
 
Unexpected development.
I can order the F150 Lightning I reserved.
Two base models are sold out, and would need to go for Lariat. With options and extended range, it is pricey.
Questions:
1. Would the F150 Lightning qualify for the full $7500 Tax Credit? -- I think so.


2. Did I read the NJ Tax regs that there would be ZERO sales tax? - I think so.

3. Would I have to wait until truck arrives to see if there are other NJ incentives?

4. Take the F150, or wait for the Silverado EV? --I think @BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap thought the Silverado was ridiculously heavy with batteries. The F150 Extended range is 6,590 pounds,which is less than the Silverado at 8,000 lbs, and less than the Rivian R1T and a lot less than the GMC Hummer EV. But the flex tailgate of the Chevy Silverado is so cool looking and functional. Edmunds says the charge rate on the F150 is 54 miles in 10 minutes, while Silverado is 100 miles in 10 minutes on a fast charger.

5. Wait 2-3 more years for the next generation?

NJ Tax:

Fed Tax:

Comparison
Knight Shift, Larry Lynch, who is a bit goofy lol, just had a video about Ford and tax credits. I will try to find it.
 
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Can you answer my questions above in the post I tagged you in?
I'm down on anything GM. The 4+ tons weight of the Silverado = poor engineering. The recent partnership announcement with Honda reeks of desperation. Why would 2 giant, experienced companies need to combine forces? And GM is barely producing any EVs right now.
IMO, Ford isn't much better, but I think Ford has a chance of surviving. The Mach-E is a hit, but again, still in limited production.
If either can't figure out profitable, volume production, it's over.

I'm not really comfortable giving advice on such a substantial purchase, so take whatever I said with a grain of salt. I'm just an anonymous guy on a message board.
 
Just watched a video of a Tesla and a pickup going through a green light when a car ran the red.

The Tesla automatically stopped and the car went right past it and plowed into the pickup.

It was an impressive display of a safety feature
Was this a test? How did you know it automatically stopped (instead of driver)?
 
I saw a Rivian truck on a flatbed the other day on I-95 north of Baltimore. I think it was being delivered. I'm not a truck guy but it was nice looking.
 
More questions than answers regarding the new Model Y out of Austin. All swirling around Tesla's 4680 cells.
What we know: front and rear castings, structural battery pack with 4680 cells, AWD
EPA filing states a 279 mi range.
What we don't know: capacity of the battery pack, weight of the vehicle

The 4680 cells were supposed to be manufacturing and efficiency game changers. Displays at the Cyber Rodeo suggest a pack capacity similar to the older 2170 Panasonic cells. If that is true, a 279 mile range for the new, 4680 Model Y is a HUGE disappointment. Is Tesla sandbagging range, i.e...holding range back via software? Are they using blanks in the pack since the cells now carry load? Is Tesla struggling to achieve the promised energy density of the new cells? What chemistry are they using in the cells? Is Tesla concerned about "The Osbourne Effect"....4680 vehicles are so drastically improved, no one will want to buy Model Y without them. Right now, Fremont, Shanghai, and Berlin Model Y are using Panasonic 2170s. There are no where near enough 4680s for all to switch over.

1st quarter earnings call is 4/20. Hopefully we'll get some answers.
 
I'm down on anything GM. The 4+ tons weight of the Silverado = poor engineering. The recent partnership announcement with Honda reeks of desperation. Why would 2 giant, experienced companies need to combine forces? And GM is barely producing any EVs right now.
IMO, Ford isn't much better, but I think Ford has a chance of surviving. The Mach-E is a hit, but again, still in limited production.
If either can't figure out profitable, volume production, it's over.

I'm not really comfortable giving advice on such a substantial purchase, so take whatever I said with a grain of salt. I'm just an anonymous guy on a message board.
I have never been a GM fan, and I always have favored Ford over GM. I would not hold your advice against you, as my purchases are my decision, and I have to live with them.

Thinking about it a bit more, since Ford has a head start on EVs with the MachE, and I am more comfortable with Ford, I think I am going to go for the F150 Lightning. As discussed earlier the seemingly never-ending delays with the Cybertruck and design aspects I personally do not like, it is an option. Rivian seems kind of interesting, but not interested. Personally, I think Ford will succeed and at least be the leader in EV pickup trucks. We shall see.
 
I have never been a GM fan, and I always have favored Ford over GM. I would not hold your advice against you, as my purchases are my decision, and I have to live with them.

Thinking about it a bit more, since Ford has a head start on EVs with the MachE, and I am more comfortable with Ford, I think I am going to go for the F150 Lightning. As discussed earlier the seemingly never-ending delays with the Cybertruck and design aspects I personally do not like, it is an option. Rivian seems kind of interesting, but not interested. Personally, I think Ford will succeed and at least be the leader in EV pickup trucks. We shall see.
Sandy Munro and team are going to be tearing apart a Rivian R1T starting next week. Stay tuned.

Elon said Cybertruck will be their "magnum opus". It's highly likely Cybertruck will deliver the greatest bang for your buck, if you can get past the aesthetics.
 
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More questions than answers regarding the new Model Y out of Austin. All swirling around Tesla's 4680 cells.
What we know: front and rear castings, structural battery pack with 4680 cells, AWD
EPA filing states a 279 mi range.
What we don't know: capacity of the battery pack, weight of the vehicle

The 4680 cells were supposed to be manufacturing and efficiency game changers. Displays at the Cyber Rodeo suggest a pack capacity similar to the older 2170 Panasonic cells. If that is true, a 279 mile range for the new, 4680 Model Y is a HUGE disappointment. Is Tesla sandbagging range, i.e...holding range back via software? Are they using blanks in the pack since the cells now carry load? Is Tesla struggling to achieve the promised energy density of the new cells? What chemistry are they using in the cells? Is Tesla concerned about "The Osbourne Effect"....4680 vehicles are so drastically improved, no one will want to buy Model Y without them. Right now, Fremont, Shanghai, and Berlin Model Y are using Panasonic 2170s. There are no where near enough 4680s for all to switch over.

1st quarter earnings call is 4/20. Hopefully we'll get some answers.
Could they just be using fewer cells to reduce weight? trying to get around 4000lbs would be great, no?
 
Could they just be using fewer cells to reduce weight? trying to get around 4000lbs would be great, no?
4680s are much larger cells, so there are fewer.
4680s = 46mm width, 80mm height.
2170s = 21mm width, 70mm height.

The million dollar question is what is the energy density of the new 4680s? Knowing the chemistry (nickel, cobalt, manganese, aluminum?) would help, but that's a mystery too.

The batteries themselves are a structural (load bearing) component of the vehicle, so the pack must be filled with batteries. This dual purpose battery pack should provide a significant weight reduction, but we still don't know the weight.

Are they using some blanks for structural purposes only, just to fill out the pack? Or, are 4680s not the energy density breakthrough they were touted as. 279 mile range isn't mind blowing. Tesla is hiding something. Tesla can unlock additional range via software update. They've done it before.

The biggest breakthrough is the manufacturing process of 4680s. They have redesigned the manufacturing of cylindrical cells. Tesla will be able to make cells and packs faster than any other supplier.
 
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This Merc concept is pretty cool. 621 miles on a charge. A vehicle weight under 4K pounds. Not a fan of the skinny-ass tires, but they will improve efficiency. I like the retro styling, which is probably more a by-product of aero efficiency than design intent.

Yeah, it's just a concept. But I think it does a good job of showing how EV technology is improving by leaps and bounds.

Which brings up an interesting issue. What happens to all the older, heavier, less efficient EVs people have bought and are buying, when newer, much more efficient EVs with greatly improved hardware tech and software that requires that hardware come out?

Will EVs maintain the same kind of used-car price curve we see today in all cars? Or will it become more like used computers, where the rapid improvements in software that cannot function well on older hardware render that older hardware effectively obsolete and worthless?

 
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Conversely, this concept from Genesis, while having an attractive muscular look, seems likely to be extremely inefficient given such a wide shape and apparently high-drag profile seemingly designed more for downforce and less for aerodynamic efficiency. Although I guess for a sports car concept, efficiency is always secondary - is not like I GAF about mileage in my sports cars.

That muscular shape is what I like about the Audi e-Tron GT. But I recognize that it's not at all ideal from an efficiency standpoint. The Taycan is less muscular and apparently has greater efficiency than the Audi. The Teslas exteriors are clearly designed with aero efficiency in mind.

 
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