But they didn't show the time it took for King Robert to go from KL to Winterfell, all they did was say it has been 30 nights since we left Kings Landing for here.
There are ways to show and tell time skips with next to no effort.
OT - Game of Thrones Season 7 Thread
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But they didn't show the time it took for King Robert to go from KL to Winterfell, all they did was say it has been 30 nights since we left Kings Landing for here.
There are ways to show and tell time skips with next to no effort.
You are really starting to nitpick. Let it go and enjoy.
He's started half a dozen posts in this thread with the word "but".
You're wasting your time.
Disagree.. if there were people watching it wouldn't be Dany's people. It would be other opposing forces who have been fighting the Lannisters this whole time. This is not an us vs them war.. it is them vs them vs them vs Army of the Undead... whit more thems watching from the sidelines.
And Highgarden had people on those ships with the Dornes.. or they were sending their army to go meet Dornes to go put a siege on Kings Landing.. something like that.
It is LAZY TV writing to not make things make sense. You lose that "suspension of disbelief" upon which these scifi fantasy stories rely.
And Lady Olenna is now out of family members to inherit the throne of Highgarden. All the more reason for people to align with Tarly in The Reach. I guess this means that Sam will now have a claim on Highgarden! Of course it will be a smoldering ruin once the dragons get through with it.. but there you go. Yes.. Jorah Mormont owes Sam his life.. and he will go back to Danerys.. and when time comes to support Sam Tarly over his father for The Reach.. Sam gets the nod. Nice. He already has the Valyrian sword. Furthermore.. everything Sam says about te Army of the Undead and White Walkers will have more weight with him being a Marster and having seen them and having saved Mormont... AND being a pupil of Dany's grandfather.. or uncle.. I forget.
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That was a costly victory for the Unsullied.. those few thousand left defending Casterly Rock took out a lot of Unsullied.. or were expected to from their defensive positions save for Tyrion knowing a secret way in.
Taking Highgarden and giving it to an ally from The Reach.. a Tarly.. ADDS Highgarden's resources and army to Lannisters. Additonally.. Highgarden had the gold Cersei needed to satisfy the Iron Bank... I think she'd be a good credit risk after this point.
As for the game of numbers.. the Lannisters have little choice in the matter.. but subtracting The Reach from the other side and adding it to your own is a big win.
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As Ned Stark's father told him - everything someone says before the word " but" is bullsh!t.
:)
no way
you are sending an armada to attack and you have no one watching?
that episode was beyond absurd
So.. by starting with the word "but", he is really sparing us the BS?
BTW.. anyone know where Bron is now? I have lost track of him? It was his quote Tyrion used.. "give me ten good men and i'll impregnate the bitch". Oh.. he was with the Lanisters at Highgarden. Never mind.
Bron was in the episode. Running on horseback next to Lord Tarly at Highgarden.
It was supposed to be a surprise attack. Dany had no forces in Westeros. She just got to Dragonstone (east coast) and sent this invasion fleet around the south to hit Casterly Rock on the west coast. How was she supposed to send a scout? She has 3 people on her staff who have ever been to Westeros. One of them is in Westeros gettign cured of stone skin. The other 2 are instantly recognizable.. The Imp and Varys, Master of Whispers .. the bald fat foreigner... everyone else is from Essos...
Now.. I will agree that both fleets should have had smaller ships all around the convoy to report on anything the saw.. nothing should have been a surprise. Though the first attack at night.. I guess that was possible. But the Casterly Rock attack.. they should have had scout ships see Euron's fleet and gotten the hell out of there.
As for ascout on land. I'd expect The Brotherhood without Banners.. Highgarden, Dorne.. perhaps even The North.. should have had spies everywhere.
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stopped at no forces
so you are planning your conquest and have no scouts or spies about and especially so with the bird whisperer at your side?
hahahaha, ok
Except.. in this story they actually had no knowledge that the Lanister forces left. So I think I'll side with the writers on the show on this one. Or perhaps we can just explain it that they dd know.. the scout did see it.. but he has been killed one his way back to report. maybe his raven has been eaten by dragons.
There are dozens of reasons why the Unsullied might not know the bulk of the Lanister forces have left... the biggest reason being that the bulk of the Lanister forces have not been at the Rock for some time now.
Of all the things to have a problem with.. this one is pretty lame. Along with thinking that Dany recruited forces on Westeros while she was mired down in Slavers Bay. Varys fled Westeros.. Tyrion was branded a traitor and murderer.. which he eventually earned. Exactly who are their forces on Westeros?
Again, the wars on multiple fronts make no sense.
Daenerys wants the Iron Throne, all she needs to do is take King's Landing. She had the forces to do it, she had the forces to keep it once taken. Take the throne, kill Cersei, declare herself Queen of the Seven Kingdoms and snuff out resistance in her own time.
The rest of it is just storytelling. And if that's what it is, then it seems futile to try and put any reason to it.
Especially given that A) Jamie always believed Tyrion to be innocent and B) Olanna's description of Cersei as "a monster" clearly resonates with him. He knows. So the question is, "does the storyline include a great epiphany?"
What was with the conversation between Varys and Melisandre?
She talked about the both dying, and it gave him pause...
She talked about the both dying, and it gave him pause...
Tyrion "confessed" to his brother before he escaped. But he was in a dark place and lied out of frustration than anything else. Now Jamie knows the truth, but his sister is so bat sh#t crazy she may not even believe him or care, she may still want to see her brother's head on a spike. Jamie in the book already woke up to her nonsense, on the show he is a bit slow...
Then again, in the books, Cersei was always this crazy since childhood.
You forget that English history is the basis for much of what was written. I know the TV show is now beyond what was written.. but the broad strokes still come from GRRM.
In real history, you have many such examples of "mistakes". Saddam Hussein stopped outside Tehran in the Iran-Iraq War. The USA-Coalition stopped outside Baghdad in the Gulf War. Hitler and Moscow. And you know there are many many many such examples in real history.
Yes.. this is likely about setting something up. But it could be that GRRM is writing this stuff and he realizes he has overpowered Dany... 3 dragons+Unsullied+Dothraki... maybe it is as simple as he needed to show it is not a foregone conclusion that she will win.
But real history has given us many examples of overwhelming favorites losing.. Vietnam.. Afghanistan for the Soviets (and now perhaps us too).
And now MYHAT is just shoveling stuff into this thread from Reddit? If that stuff is on target, then Jamie becomes both Kingslayer and Queenslayer and Sisterslayer and Mateslayer.
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Saddam stopped outside Tehran for the same reason we stopped outside Baghdad - we didn't want it. He didn't want it. You take capital cities because you intend to own the country. Those weren't "mistakes", they were strategic decisions. Who the f*ck wants Iran? Or Iraq? Ick.
At the risk of spiraling into a CE thread, that was the flaw in the Bush invasion of Iraq - not that it's exactly a revelation. You break it, you bought it. You don't want it take it home, don't pick it up and play with it.
None of which is strictly relevant, IMO. It's one thing to take territory along the way to your destination. Whether it's slogging from Normandy to Berlin or island-hopping in the Pacific, it's all basically the same. But that's not what's happening, here. Daenerys doesn't need to so much as look at Casterly Rock, much less try and take it. If it has no real value to Jamie Lannister, then it's downright useless to Dany.
The showrunners wanted battles. A whole season of battles. That's as much of a setup as there is. But all these guys writing blogs about the strategic, military intentions of this one or that... It's silly.
Personally, I think Arya kills both Jamie and Cersei, in the end. :)
Now that would be awesome! I thought it was going to be Arya at the gate of Winterfell, but obviously is was Bran.
You had Tyrion and others telling Dany that a siege was the way to go so that they don't have to take the city and kill everyone. Maybe that's a mistake.. maybe it is a purposeful mistake because of the desire for pitched battles by showrunners.. but there are plenty of examples in real history to suggest that it is plausible. But to talk about these tactics as being unbelievable.. given examples in real history and in a show that has dragons and an undead army.. I think that goes a bit too far in wanting to find reasons to disbelieve.
I think the streak is coming to an end sooner than later. The show writers made Dani too powerful, they needed to take her down a few pegs, which is why she has been losing non-stop since she got there. Cersei on the other hand looked down and out last season so she needed to make a big comeback in order to become a legit threat. Of course they need to wrap up these story-lines because next season is it all about the Night's King and his ever growing army of death Vs whoever doesn't die this season.
Episode was better than the one before it but, overall, this season feels like a ham-handed attempt to wrap things up quickly. In previous seasons, the plot advanced too slowly at points. Now, it feels rushed. And, you're right. Every time I give a pass to something that seems out of whack, they follow it up with another inconsistency. No one thing is a deal breaker in and of itself, but when you add them all up...
Good point about house Tyrell... too powerful to fall so easily. And does the killing of the sand snakes mean that Dorne's forces have just evaporated? Surely there should be enough left to remain an ally of Dany's.
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Hmmm... excellent points. I guess I want to see Cersei get hers so much that I conveniently overlooked most of the above.
I get what you mean (and I really want to give the benefit of the doubt) but, for me, what's made GOT so much better than your typical fantasy movie or series has been Martin's writing/his ability to cover all or most bases... like a well written mystery with an awesome plot twist. Since we've gone past the books, the writing and flow of the tv series has gotten sloppy in spots. I know it's zombies and dragons and none of this is real anyway, but things should still feel right and make sense within that context. Otherwise, why bother?
I always thought Jaime knew Tyrion didn't kill Joffrey. I guess now it's confirmed.
I agree.
It was never about big epic good vs evil battles, this is not Lord of the Rings.... not that there is anything wrong with that. But the whole point of the series was to get away from that. There are no 100% good or 100% evil characters and that includes the zombies and their leaders. In the books, there isn't a good reason to think that they are 100% pure evil, everyone keeps saying it but there is no real proof.
The Night's King is TV show character who doesn't exist in the book (there was a mythical version but he died 1,000's of years ago). The white walkers and zombies barely have appeared in the book. The books is not about zombies vs dragons, it never was. They might finally make their 1st real appearance in book 6, whenever the hell that is released (6 years and counting).
The TV show has characters that are not in the books and vice versa, they are really two different things.
The TV Show decided to focus more on action and sex, but in doing so it lost what made the books so special.
The books have tons of action and sex as well, but that is not the main focus, it never was.
Nope. He didn't believe it at 1st (that is what you are remembering, but Tyrion confessed to him that he killed Joffrey, even though he didn't.
I don't think anyone believed the confession was legit, certainly not Jaime
So true.. and what made the TV show good was trying to replicate what is in the books.. in TV form.
While many of the individual criticisms seem to be something that can be defended.. as a whole the negative impression is correct. It is *different* now.. and not better.
But perhaps this is because GRRM has dropped the ball on writing the next book and maybe he has not given the TV show enough to make everything work going forward. Maybe that is because he put so much effort into the books... or maybe he just got lucky by using the War of the Roses as a general outline and lately he has had teams of writers helping him flesh out the history of his world.
But think of the books a moment.. GRRM had so much going on in his.. was it 3rd book?.. that he split it into 2 books.. and decided to focus the books mostly in diverse geographic areas and did not keep a timeline moving forward.
I don't know if the TV series could handle that. Like one season following Dany only and the next season following what was going on around Kings Landing and still another catching you up on the wars in the north. The breadth of the story might just be too much for them now... and I am sorry to say that KevH may be right.. they are killing off characters and even royal houses and nation states just to refocus into a story they can handle.
In any case.. the spin-offs that pre-date the GoT story should be more manageable... and fun.
He is also releasing Part 1 of his big two part pre-history book in 2018.
Just to clear up a few things:
It was the 4th and 1st part of the 5th book that were originally one book. He doesn't have a team of writers, it is just him. The War of the Roses is just a small part of the influences. it is not actually based on that. Rather he read about it and thought it would be cool if he did a fantasy book with waring houses, some of the houses were named after them as a tribute and that is about as far as that goes.
He does have help on his compendium(s)... and since he was busy with this while he should have been writing the next book.. I think I was accurate. But you are 100% correct.. of the main story.. he does everything himself.. except illustrations.. which are likely professionally done based on his illustrations. And traditionally he has hated fanfiction based on his world.. so he is an unlikely candidate to seek or accept help in getting things done. And the way this season is going so far.. perhaps his way is best. I just don't think he'll be alive to finish this if he keeps going this slowly.
example..
About the Author
George R. R. Martin is the #1 New York Times bestselling author of many novels, including the acclaimed series A Song of Ice and Fire—A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, and A Dance with Dragons—as well as Tuf Voyaging, Fevre Dream, The Armageddon Rag, Dying of the Light, Windhaven (with Lisa Tuttle),and Dreamsongs Volumes I and II. He is also the creator of The Lands of Ice and Fire, a collection of maps from A Song of Ice and Fire featuring original artwork from illustrator and cartographer Jonathan Roberts. As a writer-producer, Martin has worked on The Twilight Zone, Beauty and the Beast, and various feature films and pilots that were never made. He lives with the lovely Parris in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
Elio M. García, Jr., and Linda Antonsson founded and run the popular site Westeros.org, which is the definitive source for all things George R. R. Martin.
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