OT: Honda Accord Hybrid

BigWill

All Conference
Gold Member
Jul 25, 2001
3,982
2,764
113
Normal America, in other words where 30-50K is a lot for a car.

Median age of cars on American roadways has now hit 11 years old, the oldest in history.

How many of us here, that should be the target economic group, college educated, white collar jobs, own homes own an Electric Vehicle as our primary vehicle ?

How many have Sun powered homes for electric power generation ?

Many places in the World do not have an electric power grid that can provide electricity on a 24 x 7 day/week. EV don't reduce the power grids load/requirement for electricity to be generated, they INCREASE the need.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChasRC69

jtung230

All American
Jun 30, 2005
8,865
4,812
113
Agreed on the current cost. But remember flat screen TVs in the beginning? The hope is that hand me down technology will be in affordable models. You know, just like iPhone pricing.
 

mdk01

Heisman Winner
Aug 18, 2011
13,228
7,446
113
The Japanese are really hanging on to the hybrid models. They need to embrace the EV or it’ll be another product that they used to sell a lot of.

Given that not everyone will have easy access to a charging station, including apartment/condo/coop owners/renters, I'd say demand will will be there for at least a few more decades.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BROTHERSKINNY

BigWill

All Conference
Gold Member
Jul 25, 2001
3,982
2,764
113
Battery tech is evolving, so that short commutes are feasible with the right car brand.

Issue is that what will be the battery charge life when these present cars are 10 years old ?
Will you be able to charge them back up to close to 100 % and how many miles will the charge last ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: dollarbill

jtung230

All American
Jun 30, 2005
8,865
4,812
113
Given that not everyone will have easy access to a charging station, including apartment/condo/coop owners/renters, I'd say demand will will be there for at least a few more decades.
Yes, but it’s technology. Once you fall behind, you’re paper weight. I’m sure Blackberry said the same thing before iPhone put it out of business.
 

jtung230

All American
Jun 30, 2005
8,865
4,812
113
Battery tech is evolving, so that short commutes are feasible with the right car brand.

Issue is that what will be the battery charge life when these present cars are 10 years old ?
Will you be able to charge them back up to close to 100 % and how many miles will the charge last ?
That’s the future. Battery technology. Solid state battery is the supposed to be the answer.
 

BigWill

All Conference
Gold Member
Jul 25, 2001
3,982
2,764
113
You have to have a basic understanding of the power industry and how electric power needs are regulated, produced in the US.

It's not technology, if a phone should be flat or have a hinge to flip.
It's how does the power industry, GUARANTEE that when Joan/Joe Smith turn on the bathroom light it goes on at night ?

For example; Re-charging up your Tesla 3 Series that costs usually above 40 k can't be done from your storage batteries at home at night. It takes too much power to charge back up to say 100% to use the battery. You must use the grid power to charge. Working at home, great. Charge during the day, but do you have enough sun to power your electric home usage, charge up your car and recharge your storage batteries ? Probably not, you'll be on the grid using their power sometime, it's just "what it is".
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ChasRC69

Bobbynieds

Sophomore
Gold Member
Oct 20, 2012
381
439
63
I am looking for a hybrid car as my next vehicle (My cars are 11 and 17 years old).
The new Honda CRV hybrid has me intrigued.
I own a townhouse and do not have convenient access to a charging station

One of my concerns is battery life. I drive cars till they DROP or require significant investment to keep them running. My 2004 Sable still runs like a champ but won't win any beauty contests
 

BigWill

All Conference
Gold Member
Jul 25, 2001
3,982
2,764
113
That’s the future. Battery technology. Solid state battery is the supposed to be the answer.

The 'future' is now. Power needs can't wait.

You and I need power right now. Power to use this computer, power to pump water from my well to my toilet tank, power to turn on my oil furnace.
 

mdk01

Heisman Winner
Aug 18, 2011
13,228
7,446
113
Yes, but it’s technology. Once you fall behind, you’re paper weight. I’m sure Blackberry said the same thing before iPhone put it out of business.

You can charge both in exactly the same places, namely everywhere. If you could only charge an i-phone in certain limited facilities (remember I'm talking about owners who can not charge at home) as opposed to a blackberry you think it would have taken off as fast????????
 

mdk01

Heisman Winner
Aug 18, 2011
13,228
7,446
113
The 'future' is now. Power needs can't wait.

You and I need power right now. Power to use this computer, power to pump water from my well to my toilet tank, power to turn on my oil furnace.

And what would 100,000,000 EVs do to the grid?
 

Scarlet4Shore

Senior
Feb 27, 2009
1,927
248
63
I am looking for a hybrid car as my next vehicle (My cars are 11 and 17 years old).
The new Honda CRV hybrid has me intrigued.
I own a townhouse and do not have convenient access to a charging station

One of my concerns is battery life. I drive cars till they DROP or require significant investment to keep them running. My 2004 Sable still runs like a champ but won't win any beauty contests

I have a 2007 Toyota Camry hybrid, with 123,000 miles on it. The battery charges itself when you step on the brakes. I’ve never had an issue with the battery. Toyota told me they have had occasional issues with cells within the battery, which can be replaced, versus replacing an entire battery.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bobbynieds

kupuna133

Senior
Jul 13, 2015
1,100
838
113
The 'future' is now. Power needs can't wait.

You and I need power right now. Power to use this computer, power to pump water from my well to my toilet tank, power to turn on my oil furnace.
Agreed.
There has not been a major power grid upgrade in more than 50 years. As of now the electric vehicle market is 2%. Any sizable increase will put a significant strain on the system. Just look at what happened to a stressed system in California last summer. Rolling blackouts and brown outs. That will become the norm if no real infrastructure changes. California electric vehicle market is 4%
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigWill

mdk01

Heisman Winner
Aug 18, 2011
13,228
7,446
113
Agreed.
There has not been a major power grid upgrade in more than 50 years. As of now the electric vehicle market is 2%. Any sizable increase will put a significant strain on the system. Just look at what happened to a stressed system in California last summer. Rolling blackouts and brown outs. That will become the norm if no real infrastructure changes. California electric vehicle market is 4%

And will get worse with nukes and natural gas generation being shut down before storage technology is advanced and installed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigWill

DJ Spanky

The Lunatic is in my Head
Moderator
Jul 25, 2001
51,345
20,325
113
infrastructure upgrades are clearly needed for the grid in order for the auto industry to really go all EV.
We also need huge upgrades in generating capacity, which is difficult as you're talking years to bring them online.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigWill

RUevolution36

All American
Sep 18, 2006
5,194
3,006
113
We also need huge upgrades in generating capacity, which is difficult as you're talking years to bring them online.
that's what i meant by infrastructure upgrades. apologies, should have been more clear. generating capacity has the longest lead time and largest price tag. charging infrastructure to enable car charging all over the country is a project that could be started now. i'm a luddite with regards to cars...i am super reluctant to give up my IC engines, but if EV is the future...i guess I'll need to accept it and support the efforts it will take to make people who think like me obsolete.

and...solid state will be the intermediate future for EV, not tesla's version of Li-ion.
 

DJ Spanky

The Lunatic is in my Head
Moderator
Jul 25, 2001
51,345
20,325
113
that's what i meant by infrastructure upgrades. apologies, should have been more clear. generating capacity has the longest lead time and largest price tag. charging infrastructure to enable car charging all over the country is a project that could be started now.
Yep, then we're on the same page. What bothers me most is we've sunsetted plants in anticipation of replacement with renewable sources without considering the expected increase in demand and the variability of the renewable source. Extremely short sighted.
 

mdk01

Heisman Winner
Aug 18, 2011
13,228
7,446
113
Yep, then we're on the same page. What bothers me most is we've sunsetted plants in anticipation of replacement with renewable sources without considering the expected increase in demand and the variability of the renewable source. Extremely short sighted.

Amen brother
 

mildone

Hall of Famer
Dec 19, 2011
40,035
37,587
113
Porsche is developing an alternative to EVs, thankfully.


I currently have zero interest in an all electric vehicle. Even if gas goes to $5/gallon I won't have much interest. I like the looks of some of them (Taycan and e-Tron GT spring to mind - they share the same underlying platform). But my two driving factors for an SUV are (1) long road trips in comfort and (2) reasonable use in snowy conditions. And who wants to worry about running out of a charge during long road trips?

OTOH, I am looking some at hybrid SUVs in my ongoing SUV shopping saga. But that's more about having to stop for fuel less often on long trips than anything else.

If Porsche can deliver on it's clean synth fuel for ICEs, then I'll be all over that, barring problematic complications. If they can't, then I'll look into electric SUVs with 600 mile range at highway speeds.
 

jtung230

All American
Jun 30, 2005
8,865
4,812
113
Porsche is developing an alternative to EVs, thankfully.


I currently have zero interest in an all electric vehicle. Even if gas goes to $5/gallon I won't have much interest. I like the looks of some of them (Taycan and e-Tron GT spring to mind - they share the same underlying platform). But my two driving factors for an SUV are (1) long road trips in comfort and (2) reasonable use in snowy conditions. And who wants to worry about running out of a charge during long road trips?

OTOH, I am looking some at hybrid SUVs in my ongoing SUV shopping saga. But that's more about having to stop for fuel less often on long trips than anything else.

If Porsche can deliver on it's clean synth fuel for ICEs, then I'll be all over that, barring problematic complications. If they can't, then I'll look into electric SUVs with 600 mile range at highway speeds.
You don’t worry about running out of gas on long road trips?
 

Bobbynieds

Sophomore
Gold Member
Oct 20, 2012
381
439
63
I like it those two.

I have a degree un Nuclear Technology (Navy Nuke Mechanic) and thought i was set for life with the experience and degree.....I have not worked in the nuclear field since i left the Navy in 91',
 

kupuna133

Senior
Jul 13, 2015
1,100
838
113
gas stations are easy to find. charging stations are not as ubiquitous.
Went on a golf trip with a buddy and he wanted to show off his new tesla. He checked ahead to make sure Hotel had an operating charging station. Only problem is there were multiple guests that needed to charge their vehicle and everyone wanted to charge their vehicle post golf rounds. Not sure if this is the norm but these charging stations took 40-80 minutes to get a 50-100% charge so needed to book in advance and only available times were during tee times. Needless to say we only used the tesla sparingly and were forced to use shuttles or Ubers around town.
 

jtung230

All American
Jun 30, 2005
8,865
4,812
113
gas stations are easy to find. charging stations are not as ubiquitous.
There’s an app for that. Most EV can help you pre-plan a long road trip for charging needs. Range anxiety is a thing of the past. Now charging time is a different story.

ETA: just saw K133 post above. Too many cars vs charging stations is a real problem too and furthers the charging time issue.
 

mdk01

Heisman Winner
Aug 18, 2011
13,228
7,446
113
There’s an app for that. Most EV can help you pre-plan a long road trip for charging needs. Range anxiety is a thing of the past. Now charging time is a different story.

So before you leave, be sure you make your reservation at a charging station and build in an extra 1-1.5 hours to your driving time. And people want 50% EV by 2030 and 100% by 2035. Right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigWill

RUevolution36

All American
Sep 18, 2006
5,194
3,006
113
So before you leave, be sure you make your reservation at a charging station and build in an extra 1-1.5 hours to your driving time. And people want 50% EV by 2030 and 100% by 2035. Right.
Solid state should fix the charging time issue. The # of charging stations will still be an issue though.
 

mildone

Hall of Famer
Dec 19, 2011
40,035
37,587
113
You don’t worry about running out of gas on long road trips?
Nope. Gas stations are far more numerous than charging stations. And SUVs with large fuel tanks can go a long way without stopping. My Suburban had a 42 gallon tank.
 

letitrip2

Senior
Sep 4, 2007
1,294
1,809
113
Nope. Gas stations are far more numerous than charging stations. And SUVs with large fuel tanks can go a long way without stopping. My Suburban had a 42 gallon tank.
I have two friends who had EVs and both hated them. Went back to hybrids. They both said long travel was a nightmare. Tesla fanboys sugar coat that but getting a high speed charge in many areas is not a given and it still takes way to long to charge. When you are on a 12 hour trip time matters. A vehicle like the RAV 4 prime make better sense until the battery can be improved and that is not a certainty. A good plug in hybrid uses electric power for daily commutes but are flexible enough for long trips.
 

mildone

Hall of Famer
Dec 19, 2011
40,035
37,587
113
I have two friends who had EVs and both hated them. Went back to hybrids. They both said long travel was a nightmare. Tesla fanboys sugar coat that but getting a high speed charge in many areas is not a given and it still takes way to long to charge. When you are on a 12 hour trip time matters. A vehicle like the RAV 4 prime make better sense until the battery can be improved and that is not a certainty. A good plug in hybrid uses electric power for daily commutes but are flexible enough for long trips.
That a good point. Not only does one have to work with fewer "refill" locations than gas, one has to deal with longer wait times to fully recharge than to fill up one's gas tank.

This is all part of why I hope the Porsche synth fuel approach works. IIRC, they say that it should work fine in existing fuel pumps, and in existing engines.
 

mildone

Hall of Famer
Dec 19, 2011
40,035
37,587
113
Solid state should fix the charging time issue. The # of charging stations will still be an issue though.
Eventually, EVs might be the way to go. Maybe.

But I hope not. I prefer the wonderful sound track put out by my engines. I'm happy to trade a couple extra tenths of a second to 60 for an engine screaming at 7800 RPM (or, hopefully in my next non-SUV purchase, 9000).

Gliding silently to a stop versus throttle-blipping downshifting and using engine braking? No contest, for me.

All of which (along with playing drums my whole life, and loving loud music) explains my tinnitus. 🙁
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Sir ScarletKnight

RUevolution36

All American
Sep 18, 2006
5,194
3,006
113
Eventually, EVs might be the way to go. Maybe.

But I hope not. I prefer the wonderful sound track put out by my engines. I'm happy to trade a couple extra tenths of a second to 60 for an engine screaming at 7800 RPM (or, hopefully in my next non-SUV purchase, 9000).

Gliding silently to a stop versus throttle-blipping downshifting and using engine braking? No contest, for me.

All of which (along with playing drums my whole life, and loving loud music) explains my tinnitus. 🙁
i don't think ICE will completely disappear in our lifetime...better get fitted for those hearing aids.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mildone

fsg2

All American
Apr 3, 2018
6,423
8,046
113
The Japanese are really hanging on to the hybrid models. They need to embrace the EV or it’ll be another product that they used to sell a lot of.

They have. Honda has an EV over in Europe, the more mature EV market. Toyota, the infamous holdout more interested in hybrids and fuel cells, recently committed to launching EVs in US. Nissan, which has fallen behind in every other conceivable way, was a pioneer in EVs.

I think their US strategy is good for now. The tech isn't where it needs to be, and the market won't fully embrace it until it is. Continue with hybrids in the interim while developing EVs for when it gets there.

I love EVs on paper, but I am sure as hell not buying one anytime soon.
 

RUevolution36

All American
Sep 18, 2006
5,194
3,006
113
They have. Honda has an EV over in Europe, the more mature EV market. Toyota, the infamous holdout more interested in hybrids and fuel cells, recently committed to launching EVs in US. Nissan, which has fallen behind in every other conceivable way, was a pioneer in EVs.

I think their US strategy is good for now. The tech isn't where it needs to be, and the market won't fully embrace it until it is. Continue with hybrids in the interim while developing EVs for when it gets there.

I love EVs on paper, but I am sure as hell not buying one anytime soon.
toyota is moving on solid state battery tech and leveraging hybrid for now.