OT Mets getting screwed

[zappaa]

It sucks all the way around, but sliding early is a function of not wanting to get a mouth full of baseball. By Tejada turning his back it allowed Utley to slide late which IMO is a good play, that's why you hit and run, it allows you as a runner to get on top of the fielder, slide late and eliminate the double play…I think the play is legal and hard, if he wanted to his left hand could have touched second base, it doesn't say anywhere in the rules you have to touch the base, you have to be able to have touched the base, and he could have. There is no intent to injure rule in baseball.
That said, before this series is over, Utley has to have a broken rib or be drinking thru a straw if he wants to play tough guy and crowd the plate, he needs to go down. If I'm at short and he's at first he's gonna be eating a baseball on the next double play ball.

 

[RUScrew85]

Now I hate the Philli s even more. Nothing good ever came out of Philadelphia

Ho Whoa Hey Ho. The Utley guy is a Dodger now, you know that right?

 

[RUScrew85]

Should be interference on Utley and automatic double play, because Tejada never had a chance to turn 2.

That's the whole idea behind breaking up a DP. The runner has to be within an arm's length. He was (sorta).

 

[rutexan84]

No they really don't. Sliding hard to break up a double play is routine-ish. Waiting until you're pretty much on top of the guy to start sliding is not normal and the intent is malicious and reckless in nature. Maybe he didn't want to hurt the guy, but he wanted to tackle him which is what he did. And to paraphrase Cuddyer, the last I checked tackling wasn't part of baseball. He's also done this exact same thing to Tejada back in 2010. Utley is no innocent, he's always taken it past playing hard and tough and into the territory of reckless if not dirty and malicious. Particularly with the Mets and other division rivals.

Now normally in this situation, he has to have tried to get near the bag or touch it or start his slide at a point which could be called reasonable effort to have tried to. He did none of those things, his only goal was to crash at full speed into Tejada. Therefore its interference or obstruction by the baserunner which is an automatic double play and would have ended the inning. The umps literally handed the Dodgers a win last night. Now they may have won anyway, but statistically if they didn't at least tie it up there the statistical probability was rather low. The only thing I've heard from the other side of this that I agree with is that Tejada shouldn't have had his back to the runners. But that doesn't make the injury on him and it doesn't mean that that tackle doesn't still break his leg.

Base runners slide away from second base and towards the thrower all the time. It's a routine occurrence. In this case, Utley had a pretty good head of steam and the way Tejada "pirouetted" made him more vulnerable. I can't help think that if Murphy had done the same thing to Kendricks, Mets fans would laud him for his competitive nature. And yes, I'm a Dodger fan.

 

[RUScrew85]

Should be interference on Utley and automatic double play, because Tejada never had a chance to turn 2.

That's the whole idea behind breaking up a DP. The runner has to be within an arm's length. He was (sorta).

First, according to New York Post article, Utley admitted that it was his intent to break up double play.

http://nypost.com/2015/10/11/why-chase-utley-is-so-convinced-his-slide-was-clean/

Second, according to the Rules cited by ESPN, players are not allowed to try to break up double plays.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/p...at-ruined-everybodys-night-except-the-dodgers

Third, since Utley never touched the bag, he clearly had no intent to try to get to the bag, which he has already admitted was not his intent. Actually, pretty straight up response by Utley.

Pretty clean cut issue, and he should be suspended for the rest of the series.

Here's hoping baseball does nothing and that Utley gets what's coming to him...a pariah in New York.

Have you ever watched this sport before? Despite what you are reading DPs are broken up all the time.

Pretty sure Utley will survive being a piriah in NY. LOL.

 

[RUScrew85]

That play happens multiple times a night in the regular season. Players go into second base trying to break up the double play with no intention of trying to touch the base all the time. Utely was well within reach of the base. Only thing Utely is guilty of is sliding late.

This. But it's the playoffs and Utley mean business in the playoffs.

I agree it looked like he slid pretty late but the ball beat him to the bag his job was to break up the DP, he figured he was already out. Since Tehada committed the error of not touching 2B Utley got it back.

 

[greenknight]

I thought it was a good hard slide. The same way the runner has to get down sliding into 2nd base or eat a baseball....it is up the ss to get out of the way of sliding Utley. Agree with Zap he needs to be beaNed and beaned hard

 

[RUScrew85]

Time to make a statement . I would pitch right at his head might even bring in Syndegard to pitch just to Utley with a 101 mile an hour fastball. Might not happen in this series but Chase Utley is a marked man.

Not a good idea. Utley is essential a backup in LA. You;d be opening up a can of worms with regard to the Mets starters.

 

[RUScrew85]

First, the ump should have exercised his proper judgment, and called Utley out for interference. That is part of baseball.

Second, the ump should have exercised his proper judgment, and called the batter out as well. That is part of baseball.

Third, the Mets need to retaliate. That is part of baseball.

Fourth, Utley should be suspended. That is part of baseball.

Fifth, the SS suffered a broken leg, and that is not part of baseball / takeout slides.

So, get lost with your pot shots at Mets fans. If that had happened to Jeter, or any of the greats, there would be hell to pay ...Upton is 100% correct.

Is this your first year watching baseball too?

 

[RUScrew85]

It sucks all the way around, but sliding early is a function of not wanting to get a mouth full of baseball. By Tejada turning his back it allowed Utley to slide late which IMO is a good play, that's why you hit and run, it allows you as a runner to get on top of the fielder, slide late and eliminate the double play…I think the play is legal and hard, if he wanted to his left hand could have touched second base, it doesn't say anywhere in the rules you have to touch the base, you have to be able to have touched the base, and he could have. There is no intent to injure rule in baseball.
That said, before this series is over, Utley has to have a broken rib or be drinking thru a straw if he wants to play tough guy and crowd the plate, he needs to go down. If I'm at short and he's at first he's gonna be eating a baseball on the next double play ball.

Thank-you for explaining this to everyone.

I don't think Utley gives a rat's ass if he gets a HBP - he used to lead the league in them. He'll take his lumps and run down to first.

 

[zappaa]

There's no such thing as sliding late!
You wanna win baseball games by breaking up double plays, you slide as late as possible without taking a ball in the mouth. It's how the game is played.
Don't ever turn your back with a runner on top of you.
There's s reason why when a ground ball was hit to me, Willie Randloph yelled, "give it me"

 

[NJgold]

RU Screw 85-

Started in 1965, played Little League, high school, American Legion, college, and pitched off the mound at Tidewater Tides stadium.

That should have been called a double play, and if it happened to my second baseman, a brawl would have happened a la Harrelson and Rose ... because that was my era.

How about you, smart guy?

 

[SAE96]

http://nypost.com/2015/10/11/chase-utleys-damning-history-of-dirty-slides/

NY Post has an article chronicling some of this dbag's history of dirty slide. There's one from a month ago that's ridiculous. They all have videos attached.

This wasn't McCrae sliding into Randolf, but this wasn't clean either.

 

[zappaa]

RU Screw 85-

Started in 1965, played Little League, high school, American Legion, college, and pitched off the mound at Tidewater Tides stadium.

That should have been called a double play, and if it happened to my second baseman, a brawl would have happened a la Harrelson and Rose ... because that was my era.

How about you, smart guy?

You wouldn't last a week in the minor leagues without taking pivot men out in the Pirate originazation, we terrorized middle infielders, Bill Madlock, Dave Parker leading the charge.
My first year was 1977 at 20 years old.
Just curious, Utley could have touched second with his hand, why should it have been a double play?

 

[OTBOTOR]

Started in 1965, played Little League, high school, American Legion, college, and pitched off the mound at Tidewater Tides stadium.

Met Park. I watched my first baseball game there in 1987 at age 5.

 

[NJgold]

You wouldn't last a week in the minor leagues without taking pivot men out in the Pirate originazation, we terrorized middle infielders, Bill Madlock, Dave Parker leading the charge.
My first year was 1977 at 20 years old.
Just curious, Utley could have touched second with his hand, why should it have been a double play?

Read post #18 of this thread and the rules cited in the ESPN article.

Utley made no attempt to touch the base, and credit to him, he's admitted he was trying to bust up the double play.

That was not a slide, and it wasn't remotely anything resembling a slide.

Possibly cost the Mets the game. Cost the Mets their SS.

Collins said today the players will take care of it, and that's the way it should be.

But the league needs to suspend Utley.

 

[zappaa]

Read post #18 of this thread and the rules cited in the ESPN article.

Utley made no attempt to touch the base, and credit to him, he's admitted he was trying to bust up the double play.

That was not a slide, and it wasn't remotely anything resembling a slide.

Possibly cost the Mets the game. Cost the Mets their SS.

Collins said today the players will take care of it, and that's the way it should be.

But the league needs to suspend Utley.

I played almost 10 years in major leagues and I can safely say I never once thought of touching the bag while breaking up a double play, and when I got the chance to "slide late" I rolled. Sliding with the intent of touching the bag was not what took place in big leagues with the double play in order, your job was to break it up,
If you were over zealous, you better be ready to get drilled, you expected it.

 

[RUforJERSEY]

It'll be taken care of. Probably not this year unless there happens to be a laugher somewhere because you can't afford to be having any of your frontline guys tossed now.

 

[NJgold]

I played almost 10 years in major leagues and I can safely say I never once thought of touching the bag while breaking up a double play, and when I got the chance to "slide late" I rolled. Sliding with the intent of touching the bag was not what took place in big leagues with the double play in order, your job was to break it up,
If you were over zealous, you better be ready to get drilled, you expected it.

And if the umps decided to call you and the runner out because you were over zealous, you expected that too, I suspect, because that's what the rules call for, and it's been enforced on occasion. And if you can get away with it...

Utley got away with it. It should have been an inning ending DP.

Let's see how Harvey handles it. Still unhappy all these years later how Piazza didn't re-arrange Roger's face after Roger threw the bat at Piazza.

 

[Knight Shift]

I am a Mets fan, and hate Utley, but agree with Zappaa. Until there is a clear rule, Utley played within the rules, and the umpire used his discretion. Umpire could have ruled the other way. It is ironic that MLB has the Buster Posey rule to protect the catcher, who is wearing protective gear, and an infielder wearing no protective gear can get taken out like Tejada got taken out last night.

 

[Doctor Worm]

Just announced - Utley suspended for Games 3 and 4!

 

[zappaa]

And if the umps decided to call you and the runner out because you were over zealous, you expected that too, I suspect, because that's what the rules call for, and it's been enforced on occasion. And if you can get away with it...

Utley got away with it. It should have been an inning ending DP.

Let's see how Harvey handles it. Still unhappy all these years later how Piazza didn't re-arrange Roger's face after Roger threw the bat at Piazza.

I'll respectfully end this with you by saying again, he could have touched second with his hand if he felt like it.
The ONLY time it was ever called, is if there was no chance the runner could have touched the base with any part of his body, Utleys left arm and hand could have touched the bag easily...No big league ump would have called it.

 

[zappaa]

Just announced - Utley suspended for Games 3 and 4!

See, I told you
PC creeping into baseball, I'll eat crow my friend.
Its a different era I guess

 

[Doctor Worm]

Not over yet - Utley planning to appeal.

 

[RUScrew85]

RU Screw 85-

Started in 1965, played Little League, high school, American Legion, college, and pitched off the mound at Tidewater Tides stadium.

That should have been called a double play, and if it happened to my second baseman, a brawl would have happened a la Harrelson and Rose ... because that was my era.

How about you, smart guy?

Played 2B through High School in the late 70s. Shame you didn't understand the game even though you played a bit longer than me. Though it seems you were a pitcher not an IF.

It wasn't interference for two reasons, one he could reach the base and two the umps agreed by not automatically awarding the DP.

I'll bet you're the guy that would throw the pitch to start the brawl and then run the other way, Smart Guy.

One other thing, Zappa agrees with me for the most part - he played in Yankee Stadium IIRC.

 

[FrankZ]

Still speechless

 

[BeKnighted]

The Phillies sure seem to produce a lot of guys who have stupid tough guy notions about how you play the game - Cole Hamels throwing at Bryce Harper in about Harper's 2nd week just because (and then admitting it, like an idiot), Jonathan Papelbon throwing at Manny Machado's head twice and then trying to choke Bryce Harper and now Utley with what is at best a borderline play that breaks Tejada's leg. Hmm.

 

[Knight Shift]

The Phillies sure seem to produce a lot of guys who have stupid tough guy notions about how you play the game - Cole Hamels throwing at Bryce Harper in about Harper's 2nd week just because (and then admitting it, like an idiot), Jonathan Papelbon throwing at Manny Machado's head twice and then trying to choke Bryce Harper and now Utley with what is at best a borderline play that breaks Tejada's leg. Hmm.

They don't call them the Philthies for nothing.

 

[BeKnighted]

It wasn't interference for two reasons, one he could reach the base and two the umps agreed by not automatically awarding the DP.

That's not two reasons - it's just that you think the umpires agreed with your conclusion. I'm not personally convinced that Utley really could have reached the base the way he "slid." At least some of the photos give the illusion that he could have slapped his hand down, but your hands go up when you slide, and by the time he could have brought his hand down he already was on Tejada.

 

[RUScrew85]

That's not two reasons - it's just that you think the umpires agreed with your conclusion. I'm not personally convinced that Utley really could have reached the base the way he "slid." At least some of the photos give the illusion that he could have slapped his hand down, but your hands go up when you slide, and by the time he could have brought his hand down he already was on Tejada.

If the umps disagreed they would have awarded the DP. They did not. Ergo...

 

[RUScrew85]

They don't call them the Philthies for nothing.

Hey, Ho, Whoa, Ho, Paplebon is a Red Sox. The Phils just rented him. We did not like him or embrace him.

 

[BeKnighted]

If the umps disagreed they would have awarded the DP. They did not. Ergo...

That does not mean that either you or the umps got it right, just that you agree with them.

 

[SkilletHead2]

It sucks all the way around, but sliding early is a function of not wanting to get a mouth full of baseball. By Tejada turning his back it allowed Utley to slide late which IMO is a good play, that's why you hit and run, it allows you as a runner to get on top of the fielder, slide late and eliminate the double play…I think the play is legal and hard, if he wanted to his left hand could have touched second base, it doesn't say anywhere in the rules you have to touch the base, you have to be able to have touched the base, and he could have. There is no intent to injure rule in baseball.
That said, before this series is over, Utley has to have a broken rib or be drinking thru a straw if he wants to play tough guy and crowd the plate, he needs to go down. If I'm at short and he's at first he's gonna be eating a baseball on the next double play ball.

Thank you, sir.

 

[BeKnighted]

Hey, Ho, Whoa, Ho, Paplebon is a Red Sox. The Phils just rented him. We did not like him or embrace him.

3-1/2 years is a bit more than a rental, and it seems like he fit in fine.

 

[NJgold]

Played 2B through High School in the late 70s. Shame you didn't understand the game even though you played a bit longer than me. Though it seems you were a pitcher not an IF.

It wasn't interference for two reasons, one he could reach the base and two the umps agreed by not automatically awarding the DP.

I'll bet you're the guy that would throw the pitch to start the brawl and then run the other way, Smart Guy.

One other thing, Zappa agrees with me for the most part - he played in Yankee Stadium IIRC.

Hey Smart Guy ...

http://espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2015...uspended-2-games-slide-broke-ruben-tejada-leg

I've said three things .... Double play .... suspension ... retaliation.

The suspension has occurred, which means the umps got it wrong, and it should have been a DP.

The only thing left is retaliation.

So, before you run your mouth and insult people, take a course in reading comprehension, and understand that my take on suspension has been supported by MLB...and Zappa and I agree on the retaliation.

 

[BeKnighted]

Honestly, the suspension probably doesn't mean much - the odds that Mattingly would have used Utley again after this incident were pretty low, given the likelihood of retaliation. It probably mostly will make it less likely that the Mets will go after another Dodger.

 

[Knight Shift]

3-1/2 years is a bit more than a rental, and it seems like he fit in fine.

Yeah, but he redeemed himself when he went after Bryce Harper.

 

[SAE96]

The POS is appealing the suspension. Regardless, I can't see him playing tomorrow. They'll uphold the suspension and the Dodgers will be down a man in games 4 and 5.

 

[rutexan84]

The POS is appealing the suspension. Regardless, I can't see him playing tomorrow. They'll uphold the suspension and the Dodgers will be down a man in games 4 and 5.

This suspension won't stand up to an appeal. His agent will produce footage of countless similar "rolling slides" that didn't result in suspension

 

[NJgold]

Here's an interference DP call from May, 2015:

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/123642014/cubs-surprised-by-interference-call-in-10th