OT: Prime Time will crash and burn

[ashokan]

The #1 recruit in the county won the Heisman. Good for him, hardly a feather in Primes cap. Before the Prime groupies come after me, how many of you will give Pikiel credit for 2 top 5 picks?

The #1 recruit who rejected the major P5 teams to play at Jackson St.

Of course the lockdown deal was that Hunter gets to play both ways - easier for Prime to allow since he did it in the NFL . Hunter was always going to be good but the fact he went against the grain with Sanders substantiates the legit appeal of the Prime methods. Good players don't have to go to iconic teams to get to the top.

 

[rutgersguy1]

The portal is an equalizer.

It’s not a perfect equalizer but it helps and certainly better than any mechanism CFB has ever had.

It doesn’t only have the potential to change a downtrodden team in a short time frame but it also makes it harder to create a super team like we’ve seen in the past.

There are very good teams but just about everyone is flawed and potentially beatable on a given day.

 

[tico brown]

The #1 recruit in the county won the Heisman. Good for him, hardly a feather in Primes cap. Before the Prime groupies come after me, how many of you will give Pikiel credit for 2 top 5 picks?

Just like with Sanders, let’s see who Pikel gets in the next recruiting class. Let’s see if both continue to get Top 5 players.

 

[Plum Street]

So in year 2, a Coach Prime recruit wins the Heisman and he has them at 9-3, #23 and in the Alamo Bowl. He just got the #6 overall recruit, the #3 QB to commit.

This team was 1-11 two years ago.

Incredible.

And his guys aren’t opting out of the bowl game .
This thread and the other one about Prime really show how little sports fans know.

 

[Big East Beast]

The #1 recruit in the county won the Heisman. Good for him, hardly a feather in Primes cap. Before the Prime groupies come after me, how many of you will give Pikiel credit for 2 top 5 picks?

He got the #1 kid to go to Jackson freakin State and then follow him to Colorado coming off a 1-11 season.

I think you are insane if you don’t recognize how unprecedented both of those things are.

In the 5 years before his arrival at JSU, they averaged 3.5 wins and were 18-37. He had Covid yr at JSU and was 4-3 then went 11-2 and 12-1. Not bad for a guy who never coached college.

At Colorado, they averaged 5.5 wins between 1997-2022. They won 9 games or more exactly 3 times.

He did it in year 2 and sold out every home game for the first time in program history. Applications to the school are up 26%.

I’m not the biggest fan of him or the methods he used to turn over the roster, but it is truly incredible. And most times when I see him in an interview setting or outside of his “schtick” I’ve been really impressed.

We’ll soon see how successful he can be without Travis and Shadeur, but I’ll give him his due and see no reason to bet against him. He’s won at every level as player, now as coach and still has something to prove.

I love Pike and it was a coup to bring those guys in. But it’s a very different situation in almost every aspect- he’s been a D1 head coach for 20 years and this is his 9th at RU. I think both can get credit- it’s not a zero sum game, especially when talking about different sports.

 

[WhiteBus]

Hope the kid has a plan B. Dion might be in Dallas on the pro side

 

[vkj91]

He got the #1 kid to go to Jackson freakin State and then follow him to Colorado coming off a 1-11 season.

I think you are insane if you don’t recognize how unprecedented both of those things are.

In the 5 years before his arrival at JSU, they averaged 3.5 wins and were 18-37. He had Covid yr at JSU and was 4-3 then went 11-2 and 12-1. Not bad for a guy who never coached college.

At Colorado, they averaged 5.5 wins between 1997-2022. They won 9 games or more exactly 3 times.

He did it in year 2 and sold out every home game for the first time in program history. Applications to the school are up 26%.

I’m not the biggest fan of him or the methods he used to turn over the roster, but it is truly incredible. And most times when I see him in an interview setting or outside of his “schtick” I’ve been really impressed.

We’ll soon see how successful he can be without Travis and Shadeur, but I’ll give him his due and see no reason to bet against him. He’s won at every level as player, now as coach and still has something to prove.

I love Pike and it was a coup to bring those guys in. But it’s a very different situation in almost every aspect- he’s been a D1 head coach for 20 years and this is his 9th at RU. I think both can get credit- it’s not a zero sum game, especially when talking about different sports.

You could also say he managed to lose 3 1AA games with a Heisman winner and multiple 1st round picks. Not sure anyone else ever accomplished that feat. And it was NIL and barstool money that got him to those places.
To be clear, I’m not anti prime. I like him, find him entertaining and he can definitely recruit and connect with kids. But he is not a good football coach. And an even worse head coach. He’s like the dude from the last season of last chance U who does the podcast now

 

[ashokan]

I recall a NYT article about Lincoln being warned by advisors about US Grant having a drinking problem.
Lincoln said they should find out what Grant was drinking and to get some for the other generals.
I think of that story when I read RU fans complaining about Prime's coaching.
Whatever Prime is "doing wrong" RU should copy it

 

[yesrutgers01]

I recall a NYT article about Lincoln being warned by advisors about US Grant having a drinking problem.
Lincoln said they should find out what Grant was drinking and to get some for the other generals.
I think of that story when I read RU fans complaining about Prime's coaching.
Whatever Prime is "doing wrong" RU should copy it

Let’s try to separate us crazy sports fan vs the majority of people in NJ that do like Rutgers sports.
Also from the tons of others in this area that are either very casual or not into sports at all.
One thing that is keeping this together here is that so many local kids play here and actually do stay here.
Imagine if next year, coach just tells 90% of the NJ/NY kids that they are no longer on scholarship and he brings in a bunch of gunslingers from all over the country.
If it works and he wins- most of the crazies on here will be ok with it or even excited.
But most of the state would go nuts in a bad way.

 

[vkj91]

Let’s try to separate us crazy sports fan vs the majority of people in NJ that do like Rutgers sports.
Also from the tons of others in this area that are either very casual or not into sports at all.
One thing that is keeping this together here is that so many local kids play here and actually do stay here.
Imagine if next year, coach just tells 90% of the NJ/NY kids that they are no longer on scholarship and he brings in a bunch of gunslingers from all over the country.
If it works and he wins- most of the crazies on here will be ok with it or even excited.
But most of the state would go nuts in a bad way.

Well that’s about to happen it is already happening with Olympic sports and new roster rules

 

[Jerseylegends]

You could also say he managed to lose 3 1AA games with a Heisman winner and multiple 1st round picks. Not sure anyone else ever accomplished that feat. And it was NIL and barstool money that got him to those places.
To be clear, I’m not anti prime. I like him, find him entertaining and he can definitely recruit and connect with kids. But he is not a good football coach. And an even worse head coach. He’s like the dude from the last season of last chance U who does the podcast now

He's not a good coach? What are you using to quantify being a "good coach"?

 

[e5fdny]

Well that’s about to happen it is already happening with Olympic sports and new roster rules

And no one will care. Except for those of us on here.

Unless those sports win. Again, probably just us.

If they continue to lose, some might care and complain. But probably not many.

 

[vkj91]

He's not a good coach? What are you using to quantify being a "good coach"?

Granted he’s in a different financial position than many coaches but riddle me this.
If he got fired tomorrow would anyone hire him to be a coordinator?

 

[tico brown]

You could also say he managed to lose 3 1AA games with a Heisman winner and multiple 1st round picks. Not sure anyone else ever accomplished that feat. And it was NIL and barstool money that got him to those places.
To be clear, I’m not anti prime. I like him, find him entertaining and he can definitely recruit and connect with kids. But he is not a good football coach. And an even worse head coach. He’s like the dude from the last season of last chance U who does the podcast now

Which 1AA program did he lose to?

 

[rutgersguy1]

Granted he’s in a different financial position than many coaches but riddle me this.
If he got fired tomorrow would anyone hire him to be a coordinator?

He's not an x-o coach any more than Ed Orgeron (I don't think much of him as a coach) was and he won a national championship. He had good coordinators in Joe Brady and Dave Aranda but as soon as they left it fell apart. If Deion can get/keep good coaches under him, he can do his thing and recruit/sell/market etc (important pieces these days) ... then he still can do good to well. If not then I'd say not as good. It's also the B12 so there's even more opportunity there for anyone.

I do want to see how he does replacing Shadeur and Hunter. He does have/get other playmakers but specifically finding a replacement for Shadeur will be key to see if he can keep it going.

 

[Jerseylegends]

Granted he’s in a different financial position than many coaches but riddle me this.
If he got fired tomorrow would anyone hire him to be a coordinator?

No, because he'd be hired as a head coach. But I actually have no idea on his x's and O's as far as designing an offensive or defensive scheme. I'm assuming he's knowledgeable about football but I have no insight on his schematics.

With that being said, he's a head coach that has has changed programs at the highschool level, division 1aa and now power 5 conference college football. I guess it will take a little more success for him to earn the good coach title from you. Imo he's already proven to be a good coach as he successfully leads these terrible programs into winning seasons. Same thing with Nick siriani from the eagles. They're on like a 10 game win streak went to the Superbowl a few years ago and people say he's not a good coach. Doesn't make sense..

 

[Jerseylegends]

He's not an x-o coach any more than Ed Orgeron (I don't think much of him as a coach) was and he won a national championship. He had good coordinators in Joe Brady and Dave Aranda but as soon as they left it fell apart. If Deion can get/keep good coaches under him, he can do his thing and recruit/sell/market etc (important pieces these days) ... then he still can do good to well. If not then I'd say not as good. It's also the B12 so there's even more opportunity there for anyone.

I do want to see how he does replacing Shadeur and Hunter. He does have/get other playmakers but specifically finding a replacement for Shadeur will be key to see if he can keep it going.

Recently flipped 5 star no. 2 QB in the nation...not sure if he will be any good or if they don't get a veteran from the portal but seems like a good start .

 

[Jerseylegends]

Which 1AA program did he lose to?

I think he's talking about Jackson state. Lol he should've went undefeated there because he had Travis and shedeur 🙄

 

[rutgersguy1]

Recently flipped 5 star no. 2 QB in the nation...not sure if he will be any good or if they don't get a veteran from the portal but seems like a good start .

Yea I saw that but you never know how a freshman is going to do.....see Malachi Nelson the #1 player in the country in his time iirc. Changed his commitment to USC from OU when Riley left then transferred to Boise (ended up being the backup) and now in the portal again to who knows where. It's hard to project with certainty.

I did read Liberty's qb Kaidon Salter is visiting Colorado. He's a solid qb but don't think he's as good as Shadeur. I'd say the biggest problem with Shadeur is he held the ball too long at times trying to make a play but outside of that he could make a ton of throws. I don't know that someone like that is easy to replace.

 

[tico brown]

I think he's talking about Jackson state. Lol he should've went undefeated there because he had Travis and shedeur 🙄

He’d have a turnpike stop named after him if he went 27-6 in three years at Rutgers, despite nj com, Jersey politicians, and half of the fan base.

 

[ashokan]

Let’s try to separate us crazy sports fan vs the majority of people in NJ that do like Rutgers sports.
Also from the tons of others in this area that are either very casual or not into sports at all.
One thing that is keeping this together here is that so many local kids play here and actually do stay here.
Imagine if next year, coach just tells 90% of the NJ/NY kids that they are no longer on scholarship and he brings in a bunch of gunslingers from all over the country.
If it works and he wins- most of the crazies on here will be ok with it or even excited.
But most of the state would go nuts in a bad way.

Flood had players who became bad people (lots of DBs) .
Players can go off the hook and Colorado had more than a few of them and they had to go.
Some players had no talent and a sketchy prognosis not worth the investment

Colorado sports were also going broke and didn't even have the money to pay Sanders.
They had fired 3 head coaches before Sanders, ticket sales were in the dumps and stands were empty.
Football pays for the other sports that are financial liabilities and it wasn't at Colorado.

The college itself was 100% behind the house cleaning and changed its transfer rules to accommodate new players.
Like an old, neglected house, sometimes its cheaper and better to just rebuild than to try and fix.
Colorado football was desolate and a haunted house.
A whole lot more people were helped by the shake-up than hurt by it.

Part of Sanders' success is that he goes after the whole university and town.
He met with admins and academic depts and told them they would be needed to bring health to Colorado sports.
He was giving them presentations and celebrating them publicly - collectively they loved it.
Schiano 1.0 did something similar with his 250 mile "State of Rutgers."
I even fell for it and started going to games (3 hours each way) and even calling his radio show.

Some people run to fix problems and some work at the edges while others dance and avoid issues.
Sanders runs to problems and isn't shy about it.
In year two the whole situation is better.
At RU football we are in year 20 of no titles but have the usual "We'll get there."

 

[Randal7]

The guy is gonna win a NC there

 

[tico brown]

Yeah but the narrative will be that he brought that NC with Barstool, AFLAC money or whatever.

Or that he’s part of the reason why players don’t play for free anymore.

 

[vkj91]

He's not an x-o coach any more than Ed Orgeron (I don't think much of him as a coach) was and he won a national championship. He had good coordinators in Joe Brady and Dave Aranda but as soon as they left it fell apart. If Deion can get/keep good coaches under him, he can do his thing and recruit/sell/market etc (important pieces these days) ... then he still can do good to well. If not then I'd say not as good. It's also the B12 so there's even more opportunity there for anyone.

I do want to see how he does replacing Shadeur and Hunter. He does have/get other playmakers but specifically finding a replacement for Shadeur will be key to see if he can keep it going.

so we agree entirely. As we often do with coaches. I never said he couldn't win but he's not a great coach. I would also say that Orgeron is a better coach and his coaching track record helps him to recruit better coaches. It went downhill because he started parting again and brought his girlfriends kids to practice and let them participate

 

[ashokan]

Warren Sapp celebrated most of season for big DL improvement.
He did it making 150K
The rule for all at Col is you have to love the game
That kind of juice within program works better than just memorizing the playbooks

Warren Sapp's pay at Colorado revealed as graduate assistant football coach

Two Pro Football Hall of Famers are now on Colorado's coaching staff. One makes $150,000.

www.usatoday.com

 

[rutgersguy1]

 

[ashokan]

View embedded media

He's out of the big Dexter Lawrence mold.
I can't really imagine being an OL across from him.
A helmet adds around 3 inches of perceived height and pads weigh around 20lbs.
Easy to see how defenses get worn by 4th.
Brian Billick said the hardest thing to do in football is to keep rushing the passer.
The 225lb lift at the combine is a measure of endurance as well as strength.
There are huge OL too but they have to play backwards on pass protection

 

[ashokan]

Deion Sanders makes plans for his Colorado coaching future abundantly clear

Given the turnaround Deion Sanders has engineered with Colorado, there has been much speculation that he could jump to the NFL sidelines.

nypost.com

 

[e5fdny]

Deion Sanders makes plans for his Colorado coaching future abundantly clear

Given the turnaround Deion Sanders has engineered with Colorado, there has been much speculation that he could jump to the NFL sidelines.

nypost.com

Package deal to the Raiders?

Antonio Piece has even more to worry about now.

 

[ashokan]

Package deal to the Raiders?

Antonio Piece has even more to worry about now.

DS has often said that he would not want to coach in the NFL because players don't want to work.
Even past teammates (FB and BB) who weren't crazy about Deion said he was a very hard worker.
He grew-up with worker parents (steppie) and grand parents who drilled him.
I'm not sure Deion doesn't have his price to coach in NFL (Cowboys would entice the most) but he is seriously down on the league

 

[rutgersguy1]

Yea I saw that but you never know how a freshman is going to do.....see Malachi Nelson the #1 player in the country in his time iirc. Changed his commitment to USC from OU when Riley left then transferred to Boise (ended up being the backup) and now in the portal again to who knows where. It's hard to project with certainty.

I did read Liberty's qb Kaidon Salter is visiting Colorado. He's a solid qb but don't think he's as good as Shadeur. I'd say the biggest problem with Shadeur is he held the ball too long at times trying to make a play but outside of that he could make a ton of throws. I don't know that someone like that is easy to replace.

 

[ashokan]

Travis Hunter pays into Colorado’s NIL fund, receives $0​

"Colorado's biggest star this season, two-way phenom Travis Hunter, won the school's second-ever Heisman Trophy for his incredible play on both sides of the ball. But it's what he's done off the gridiron that's drawing some deserved attention.

According to Deion Sanders Jr., son of Buffaloes head coach Deion Sanders, Hunter does not receive a single dime from the school's NIL fund despite his own NIL value of $5.2 million mostly sourced in external deals.

"You know he receives no NIL from the collective? He's one of the biggest donors to the collective, meaning he's paying a lot of other people's NIL on this team," Sanders Jr. told the Zero 2 Sixty Podcast Dec. 16. "He's paying at least 10-15 guys' NIL on the team."

MSN

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

The #1 recruit who rejected the major P5 teams to play at Jackson St.

Of course the lockdown deal was that Hunter gets to play both ways - easier for Prime to allow since he did it in the NFL . Hunter was always going to be good but the fact he went against the grain with Sanders substantiates the legit appeal of the Prime methods. Good players don't have to go to iconic teams to get to the top.

Hunter took the $$
It wasn't the playing both ways that made him switch to JSU

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

24 pages in = free publicity
Right up Deion's alley

 

[Jerseylegends]

Hunter took the $$
It wasn't the playing both ways that made him switch to JSU

He wouldn't have gotten money at other schools?

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Fake it til' you make it.

Coach Prime's self-created hype was fantasy.. now it is not.. because it was believed by players who came to him and made his vision real.. or, real-enough so far.

Coach Prime is getting it done. He has attracted the help.. on and off the field.. to make teh vision real.

It is pretty cool.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

He wouldn't have gotten money at other schools?

We had an offer but Deion came in and upped it signifigantly last minute on the hush

 

[Jerseylegends]

We had an offer but Deion came in and upped it signifigantly last minute on the hush

Jackson state outbid Florida state? Maybe idk but he gets outside deals he wouldn't have been broke at FSU. Think it had more to do with prime and his unique perspective on playing both ways.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Jackson state outbid Florida state? Maybe idk but he gets outside deals he wouldn't have been broke at FSU. Think it had more to do with prime and his unique perspective on playing both ways.

They did it secretly behind closed doors so when it came out, it got a lot of publicity

 

[Jerseylegends]

They did it secretly behind closed doors so when it came out, it got a lot of publicity

So how do you know about it? Lol but again how much more could it have been? Guarantee he could have gotten it somewhere else. It's obvious he has a close connection with sanders..