And the irony is, the most successful and advanced African Americans you probably know don't even consider using racism or victimization as a platform to elevate themselves.
OT: Princeton Professor Arrest
- Thread starter Ole Cabbagehead
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And the irony is, the most successful and advanced African Americans you probably know don't even consider using racism or victimization as a platform to elevate themselves.
1) I'm responding to the idea that it is a liberal trope that minorities cannot achieve because of racism. Income is far greater a factor, according to the two most prominent liberals in America. And most everyone outside of BLM and Al Sharpton types.
2) See 1. What I'm saying is, poverty is the bigger factor, but doesn't make any racism any less real or insignificant. Rising incomes or better educational outcomes would not impact racist cops or store employees.
They already do condemn it. Which is a big difference, from say, when an abortion clinic was attacked and Ted Cruz tried to say the shooter was a transgender activist.
And the cops don't condemn it. The Linden cop was hidden for years until he killed two people. The Eric Garner cop was left on the force after his conduct resulted in a successful lawsuit before anyone knew who Eric Garner was. The Tamir Rice cop was fired by one department- and rehired by another despite being fired for mental instability. That is the whole issue. If conservatives were actually concerned with small government they would be actively pumping the breaks on this kind of thing. Instead every time we talk about public employees it's straight to the teacher's union. If a drunk teacher killed two people after two DUIs that the school district covered up for her, Christie would have been in her hospital room to personally fire her.
Instead, they turn their backs on DeBlasio. They kick and scream about Beyonce. Muslims OTOH have virtually no political power- they have two elected members of the House and the frontrunner on the Republican side saying they should be registered or banned from the country. Again, has Hillary or Bernie asked for the registration of the police?
And Muslims (and Sikhs and Hindus because of the extra idiocy of the attackers) have paid time and time again with their limbs and lives for this rhetoric. When was the last time Rudy or any Republican aside from Jeb Bush called out Trump for this?
It is a total false equivalency and you know it. The bottom line is, some Republicans, not all, and as far as I can see there is a real divide on this issue and this thread is great evidence- do not give a crap about small government or lower taxes, but rather the perceived threat to white people from minorities, and that if we hold the police as accountable as we would anyone else in society, there will be some threat or demotion to the privilege of whiteness in this country. I simply can't believe anything else until anyone on the right demands accountability for cops.
No one is born a cop. And no one is "hating" cops.
Instead of name calling, maybe crack a dictionary. All anyone wants is accountability. Some on the right demand the cops not be held responsible for anything, that they beat treated as infallible, which is not a standard applied to any other group in society.
If a teacher who was so bad that she previously caused the city to pay a huge settlement for her misconduct then strangled someone to death, and the mayor condemned her, and the teacher's union sought to defend her, Republicans would (justifiably) lose their mind. How about applying that standard to everyone?
And the teacher's union would insist that proper procedures were not followed, that he/she be maintained at full salary and benefits and that there's no problem with administrative procedures that would take a few years to complete.
Or the NYC model could be used and the teacher could be confined to a "rubber room" until retirement.
More histrionics...nobody on the right demands cops not be held responsible or be treated as infallible. Again, your issue should be with the unions that protect bad employees and use contracts to keep them employed.
The war on police continues.
http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2016/02/16/six-shells-found-scene/80447824/
http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2016/02/16/six-shells-found-scene/80447824/
Gee. They missed their chance at offing 2 little piglets as well. Fry'em like bacon.
Yep. What's happening around the nation to these brave men and women is an atrocity. This isn't made up fake stories to push some social justice agenda. This is real.
Police Officer Derrick Couch, Clarksdale, Mississippi, shot last night rolling up on an armed robbery. Shot by 2 gunmen, critical head wound, just out of surgery today.
Why is there no out cry for this officer and his family?
19-Year-Old Charged in Point-Blank Shooting of Mississippi Cop
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/19-year-old-charged-point-blank-shooting-mississippi-cop-n519056
Why is there no out cry for this officer and his family?
19-Year-Old Charged in Point-Blank Shooting of Mississippi Cop
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/19-year-old-charged-point-blank-shooting-mississippi-cop-n519056
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But hey, someone taking shots at your house with 2 kids there is just part of the job. Right?
That's a new thing in our society. Gun yielding criminals never engaged cops before.Police Officer Derrick Couch, Clarksdale, Mississippi, shot last night rolling up on an armed robbery. Shot by 2 gunmen, critical head wound, just out of surgery today.
Is that important? Because technically no one is born Muslim, Jewish or even Catholic. Before you resort on insulting ones intelligence you might want to resort to checking on your own.
And your example with the teacher is out of leftfield, was that meant for me? Because I'm failing to connect to our discussion.
Yes, you're correct - too many guns. Repeal the 2nd amendment, disarm the military, hold hands, and sing kumbaya. I just noticed this thread. 8 pages, wow. Is page 8 representative?
It is if we're talking about some sort of precipitation event in our near future. Or even one that happened a MONTH ago.
Usually started by the same guy too.
Nobody on huge right says cops shouldn't be held accountable. That's another dramatic straw man. I don't think you mean "held accountable to satisfy the mob and rush to judgment crowd" and actions like the dipshit Mayor and DA of Baltimore when they pronounced guilt. I think you want due process for all...correct?
What I and a lot of people are saying us:
1) bad cops should be held responsible to the furthest extent of the law...systematically weeded out
2)the press and the liberal movement in the United States have decided that police killing unarmed blacks is a pervasive national epidemic, jumping on any fact pattern that even remotely parallels that...massive national coverage before the facts are known. The press is working hard to make the story line work, cherry picking and inflaming...making the news, not reporting it.
3) demonizing police has become nationally acceptable by the left...racism and police brutality have become "settled science"
4) there has been a rash of police being shot...whether it is real or perceived...it feels like an acceleration making people wonder if there is a connection to the demonization
5) I think there's pretty much universal agreement that body cameras on police is a good thing and should be table stakes to weed out the small minority of bad cop actions and, more importantly, demonstrate how tough the police have it and how well they do their job.
You just can't resist going on the attack, can you? I didn't say a thing in defense of, or in support of, his arguments. I just pointed out that he made some arguments (without attacking you) and you attacked him for it rather than sticking to countering his arguments. You're the one calling for tolerance and yet you seem incapable of it yourself.
Speaking of generalizations, I have friends and family on "the left" who are enormously respectful of the police. Some are less respectful or supportive. It's exactly the same with my friends and family on "the right" and with those in the center. You tossing in partisan generalizations while angrily pointing out the generalizations someone else makes adds even more irony to your posts.
Ball's in your court. Attack me some more; this is fun.
Think you might need to change the batteries in your sarcasm meter. There's nothinh new about that.
Educate me. Who are all these people whose careers have been nuke'd by unfairly alleged racism? Conversely, how many careers have been carpet bombed by racism? It's probably impossible to get accurate numbers for either. But I bet we both agree that both situations suck.
For what it's worth, assuming there isn't more to this story than was in the linked articles, then I agree with you that the media should make a big stink about this particular case with this particular woman.
Police body cam leads to firing of DeKalb Fire Captain
DeKalb County Fire Chief Darnell Fullum says he was stunned when he first saw the FOX 5 report on a traffic stop involving two of his employees.
http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/i-team/92799171-story
DeKalb County Fire Chief Darnell Fullum says he was stunned when he first saw the FOX 5 report on a traffic stop involving two of his employees.
http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/i-team/92799171-story
I don't know about everyone else, but when I'm stopped by an officer for any reason my blood pressure rises and there's a sense of fear, not for my physical being but fear of consequences.
What a bunch of crap that big ass fire captain felt scared!
Not knowing when to get humble is one of our societies missing ingredience to civility
As noted previously, these spurious allegations harm their 'cause' more than anything else. Why go there? It's like the IN thing to do for people of color. It's no longer the race card, but the victim card. "Oooo, I felt threatened". That's what we get when we validate feelings over facts/reason.
If the right is not demanding infallibility, then what is the issue with Beyonce or Kendrick Lamar? I don't understand. And few on the right outside of Rand Paul have made any issue of militarization of departments like Ferguson, arresting journalists, etc. I have not heard even here in NJ where unions are Republican bugaboo #1 anything about the numerous instances of police malfeasance.
OTOH, I have not heard the "left" demonizing police. I've watched most of the Republican and Democratic debates and frankly aside from Trump I never heard boo about the police because outside of BLM and far right elements, it is understood that the police are not infallible.
Body cameras are great but that comes back to the media, and the media as RU fans we know quite well runs with video. Eric Garner's death was a bigger deal because it was caught on video- and in a twist that would make Putin or Hugo Chavez beam, the video taker was the one charged with a crime. Ferguson's main streets looking Tianenmen Square got international attention. This is 2016, blaming things on the media with the internet, a right wing TV channel AND Twitter Facebook et al where anyone and their mother is a journalist is sorry. If your side wants to win things as your own autopsy in 2012 points out, you need to take heed of that.
Again, this is an issue of small government and that's it. The "war on police" is not just made up but a reflection that conservatism in 2016 is at a crossroads, are you guys going to be about small government or historic supporters of the Republican party like the cop unions that protect people who kill and hurt others while taking a ton of our money to do it? Not for me to answer. You guys aren't going to win elections pretending the victims are the cops though, that's a promise.
OTOH, I have not heard the "left" demonizing police. I've watched most of the Republican and Democratic debates and frankly aside from Trump I never heard boo about the police because outside of BLM and far right elements, it is understood that the police are not infallible.
Body cameras are great but that comes back to the media, and the media as RU fans we know quite well runs with video. Eric Garner's death was a bigger deal because it was caught on video- and in a twist that would make Putin or Hugo Chavez beam, the video taker was the one charged with a crime. Ferguson's main streets looking Tianenmen Square got international attention. This is 2016, blaming things on the media with the internet, a right wing TV channel AND Twitter Facebook et al where anyone and their mother is a journalist is sorry. If your side wants to win things as your own autopsy in 2012 points out, you need to take heed of that.
Again, this is an issue of small government and that's it. The "war on police" is not just made up but a reflection that conservatism in 2016 is at a crossroads, are you guys going to be about small government or historic supporters of the Republican party like the cop unions that protect people who kill and hurt others while taking a ton of our money to do it? Not for me to answer. You guys aren't going to win elections pretending the victims are the cops though, that's a promise.
Did you sleep through both Sanders and Clinton saying police targeting African Americans is a problem?
You know, for someone who says he isn't defending someone, you sure are defending him a lot, I hope you got a retaining fee from him.
And you need to go back and reread what he wrote about cops, he absolutely disrespected them and if you can't see that then there is really no discussion here.
And you're lecturing me on generalizations while you're defending someone who is generalizing cops - how does that work? I mean I think that's great irony. Also the majority of the left has resorted to generalizations and basic intolerance. And they are absolutely become anti-cop, I could care less how many of your friends or family from the left or supportive, I don't buy it.
And you know, you attacked me first right here:
One guy writes a post that voices his opinion without any ad-hominem attacks on anyone. A second guy doesn't like the gist of what the first guy posts, so he calls the first guy a POS immediately followed by calling a substantial portion of the electorate intolerant?
That's some good irony right there.
You're quite sensitive, aren't you?
I don't know why racism and police cant be discussed without a generalization of "all cops". I love and respect many police officers but there is a reason why some are my good friends and why there are some that I wouldn't be caught dead next to.
But Zappa- your comment about being in fear of consequences if you are stopped by an officer is because you know that you did something wrong if you have been stopped or questioned by a cop.
I see it as a parent from both sides of the fence. It gives you a whole new outlook. I have two sons that if they are stopped or questioned by a police officer, they know to be polite but yet they have the right to ask why they are being pulled over or questioned. I have two sons that in the same circumstances, it is in their best interest to just be polite and only say yes sir and let me or a lawyer handle it later. All of my sons are polite, educated, level headed and far from a "thug". All about the same age. There is only one difference.
It exists and it is scary.
And the shitty thing is that an educated woman like this professor make a mockery of it.
But Zappa- your comment about being in fear of consequences if you are stopped by an officer is because you know that you did something wrong if you have been stopped or questioned by a cop.
I see it as a parent from both sides of the fence. It gives you a whole new outlook. I have two sons that if they are stopped or questioned by a police officer, they know to be polite but yet they have the right to ask why they are being pulled over or questioned. I have two sons that in the same circumstances, it is in their best interest to just be polite and only say yes sir and let me or a lawyer handle it later. All of my sons are polite, educated, level headed and far from a "thug". All about the same age. There is only one difference.
It exists and it is scary.
And the shitty thing is that an educated woman like this professor make a mockery of it.
The only time I've ever been pulled over for doing nothing wrong was for driving thru a neighborhood I had no business being in at the time I was driving thru it.
I don't mind being stopped for that, when the cops smell no alcohol and sense I have no fear or nothing to hide they just tell me get out of here.
Zap- I'm like you...I don't think I have ever been pulled over for doing nothing wrong or been told to shut up by a cop if I asked why.
But have witnessed first hand what it is like to have both happen and worse.
So to your way of thinking, you calling another forum member a POS is the same thing as me pointing out the irony contained in someone's post? And I'm the sensitive one? [roll]
BREAKING NEWS: Racism exists, and it's not only white vs. black.
MLK Jr.'s speech called for a color blind society, what is too often forgotten is the second part. He asks that his children not be judged by the color of their skin, but BY THE CONTENT OF THEIR CHARACTER. That is it in a nutshell. It shouldn't be about black or white, but about whether that person is a decent person. Their are members in both BLM and police community that are lacking, but no wholesale statement should cover everyone.
And in the words of Forrest Gump, "that's all I got to say about that."
MLK Jr.'s speech called for a color blind society, what is too often forgotten is the second part. He asks that his children not be judged by the color of their skin, but BY THE CONTENT OF THEIR CHARACTER. That is it in a nutshell. It shouldn't be about black or white, but about whether that person is a decent person. Their are members in both BLM and police community that are lacking, but no wholesale statement should cover everyone.
And in the words of Forrest Gump, "that's all I got to say about that."
^. Keeping head sand. The rise in violence against police is undeniable. But some would rather focus on fake stories to try and further some social agenda.
Damn. What do you have against Princeton? It's a nice town and a great college.
I must have, but if they did, I wouldn't say that's demonization. Just as I wouldn't say "securing the border" is demonization of immigrants.
Yeah really. You can look it up. Goes back to the days of stage coach heists and the James gang. Robbers don't carry guns because they intend to go quietly if confronted by law enforcement. When they're told to come out with their hands up they tend not to listen. Seriously. Ask somebody.
