OT - Tesla Model 3
- Thread starter RUinNY
- Start date
I'm guessing not many will come in at 35k. The Model S has almost a 50% price swing from top to bottom of the lineup and, as has been pointed out by all the car mags, the Model 3's entry-level sports sedan competition starts at around 35k but the segment leaders (3 series, A4) can be optioned to over 50k.
$4.9 Billion in government loans - they lose 4K for every car sold. Company is a complete joke - it's not even a company its a US Corporate welfare operation.
New Jersey needs more charging stations, before this becomes an option for non-house owners. Anyone who leaves in a apt, Condo, or townhouse can't get one of these without a charging station.
If it's a loan, how is it comparable to welfare?
The $4.9 billion includes all loans (he just finished repaying $1 billion), government tax credits to consumers, environmental grants and construction subsidies for the joint-venture battery plant in Nevada (with Panasonic). It also includes all of Musk's corporate entities.
So, I am seriously considering one of these. To you knowlegable car guys, on a scale of 1-10, how do you rate this vehicle in terms of:
1. Sportiness
2. Handling in rain/snow
3. Energy cost (gasoline vs. battery replacement cost)
4. Dependability
5. Power
6. Cool factor
1. Sportiness
2. Handling in rain/snow
3. Energy cost (gasoline vs. battery replacement cost)
4. Dependability
5. Power
6. Cool factor
Okay, so understand that there's nothing on which to base these assumptions other than the existing Model S, which is bigger and much (much) more expensive. That said, with respect to your categories, here's how the Model S shapes up against its price range, from which you can derive certain assumptions about the Model 3.
1. Very fast. Handles well for its size. Braking suffers (near the bottom of the class) because of the extraordinary weight.
2. The base Model S is RWD, AWD is extra cost. Always spend the extra money for AWD.
3. Given that the shortage of rapid charging stations renders the Tesla mostly a commuter car / grocery getter, the economics will come out in its favor since most cars are much less efficient around town than on the highway (hybrids being an exception).
4. Meh. There have been reliability issues with the S, but these have been corrected by Tesla. The downside is that there's not much of a dealer network and when it breaks you're gonna need a spare car.
5. See #1.
6. They are, without question, very cool.
The timing of delivery for these lines up perfectly with my anticipated schedule for a new car. The reservation fee is $1000 and is refundable if you decide not to purchase one. I wonder whether insurance costs are going to be much different.
I have a Model S. One thing that is not appreciated about the charging/range issue is this - unlike gas cars, you can "fill up" your car at home and you leave your house every morning with 200 or so miles of range. You need to think about range and charging stations only on days you are traveling more than 200 miles. For me that's about once or twice a month. On all other days I'm actually better off than drivers of IC cars.
I really cannot remember the last time I traveled more than 200 miles in one trip. It will not be very useful for the zombie apocalypse if you need to bug out. Also, what would you do in a Hurricane Sandy situation...I suppose a generator could be used to charge it?
Tesla has many interesting aspects - it is fascinating to see the stripped frame/platform that they display in the 'store' where they show the cars - you can see the inherent design flexibility advantages that this platform has. They have sold over 100,000 cars - the concept is more than just a 'fad' - and appears to be moving beyond the curious "innovators" - (look around and you will see Tesleas being used as daily drivers - yes, by wealthy people - but still they are the day-in-day-out driver - not just a weekend toy) and if they make major advancements in the recharge time aspect they will really soar ...
.... now, 10 years from now will Tesla be a market leader? maybe
or will it be like the personal computer / 'portable ' computer market where the early pioneers like Osborne, Kaypro, and Compaq jumped out & prove a concept - only to get overwhelmed when traditional market leaders focus their resources on the emerging segment.
or will they be like Apple - carving out a position in the market & aggressively out-innovate the competition and continue to stay ahead of the curve.
.... now, 10 years from now will Tesla be a market leader? maybe
or will it be like the personal computer / 'portable ' computer market where the early pioneers like Osborne, Kaypro, and Compaq jumped out & prove a concept - only to get overwhelmed when traditional market leaders focus their resources on the emerging segment.
or will they be like Apple - carving out a position in the market & aggressively out-innovate the competition and continue to stay ahead of the curve.
I would Love one of these cars. I have a hybrid now that is awesome and pretty new so I am a few years away on new car. That said - the one concern I have is what does essentially sitting on giant battery for hours at a time do to you health wise? Maybe I am nuts but I wonder about this. Would love to hear from Some folks on this board with an option on that.
Just seems it could be a problem down the road and no one is talking about it. And we won't really know for sure until years from now. Again, I could be making a big deal out of nothing. Just been wondering about this.
Just seems it could be a problem down the road and no one is talking about it. And we won't really know for sure until years from now. Again, I could be making a big deal out of nothing. Just been wondering about this.
Saw a Porsche 918 at the grocery store a few months ago (pic below is from the internet...not my sighting). Car was black and it was night out, so I just saw the silhouette and needless to say, it was pretty damn impressive (I drove up from behind...rear profile (as seen below) is awesome). I really didn't know what it was...thought maybe a Porsche...and looked it up when I got home. Quite the vehicle.
Haha...you know that annoying feeling you have when you forget to plug in your cellphone at night and are leaving the house with an almost dead phone? I guess it's really important NOT TO FORGET TO PLUG YOUR CAR IN before you turn in.
And they sound incredible. Which is why I like them as opposed to pure electrics. Alas, it's a little out of my price range at the moment.Saw a Porsche 918 at the grocery store a few months ago (pic below is from the internet...not my sighting). Car was black and it was night out, so I just saw the silhouette and needless to say, it was pretty damn impressive (I drove up from behind...rear profile (as seen below) is awesome). I really didn't know what it was...thought maybe a Porsche...and looked it up when I got home. Quite the vehicle.
Porsche is reputedly working on a pure electric car to compete with Tesla. But I crave the engine noise. Is music to my ears.
They'll have to pry my gas guzzling engine, along with my clutch and steering wheel, out of my cold dead fingers. No electrics and no automated cars in my future.
Who would you say are Tesla's biggest competitors right now (in the realistically could afford category)? Chevy's Volt? Others?
"my clutch" - YES - personally I can get to be comfortable with an automatic ... and am very comfortable with a conventional stick ...
but just can't get to like the "shift-able automatics" no matter how spiffy ... it is too weird to try to shift with my right hand if my left leg is not pushing the clutch - everything just feels totally out of sync
good initial write-up here & says that the Tesla 3 will go against the Chevy "Bolt" (not out yet)
http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/tesla-model-3-first-ride-and-complete-details
All of the electric cars and plug in Hybrids, of which there are a lot more in this price range that you may have realized. This is only a big deal because Tesla is now releasing an affordable one like everyone else. Their charge last a lot longer than the rest.
Here is the current list: http://www.plugincars.com/cars
I prefer having the clutch pedal. I can live with a well-implemented dual-clutch transmission as well (like the Porsche dual clutch gearboxes). But I prefer a clutch pedal, even if it means my zero to sixty times are slower.
I drove a rented Camaro SS for a week I spent in Florida. That was a semi-automatic with sequential shift paddles. But it sucked. Very slow shifts.
You didn't say what year the Camaro was. The new (2016) 8-speed is supposed to be pretty good for a slushbox. I agree with you, though - the DSG in my Audi is wicked quick, way better than a torque converter automatic.
I spent a lot of my life shifting gears. I don't really miss it.
Yeah, so you had the old 6-speed. The reviewers have unanimously declared the new 8-speed to be far superior. The car itself apparently benefits greatly from its recent transplant to the Alpha platform, too.
Absolutely. The US government should never offer loans or tax incentives to further new industries and new energy storage technologies. It's far more equitable to invest in Big Oil. In fact, even better than investing in Big Oil, which could benefit some American workers, we should just funnel the money directly to the oil sheiks. They can figure out what to do with our tax dollars. I'm sure they need a few more plush palaces and yachts. And when none of that money trickles down into infrastructure, more Middle Easterners will join militias to bomb Western targets, which will keep our military industrial complex strong. And then all cars manufacturers should be mandated to produce cars that have fuel economy of no more than 10 miles per gallon. Since the sheiks promise to keep oil prices low, we need to use a lot more.
Glad someone started this, was thinking about the 3 myself. Gonna keep an eye on the info that comes out before the model is actually released.
I would have considered waiting--initial reviews of the pre-production 3s are excellent, as expected--but I am very happy with my Audi S4.
Teslas are huge here in SF...a few friends of mine have the P85, they are amazing. Great to see American engineering and what it can do over the tired, bloated Detroit makers
Teslas are huge here in SF...a few friends of mine have the P85, they are amazing. Great to see American engineering and what it can do over the tired, bloated Detroit makers
TBH, I cooled considerably on the S4 with the demise of the B7 variant. The supercharged 6 just doesn't do it for me in that car. They should have just tuned out the V8 a little bit and left it alone.
You should get a home charging station and start buying your books at Barnes and noble
Boo...
B8 S4 was an improvement in just about every way over the B7. Biggest difference IMHO was pushing the front axle forward and moving the engine back a bit. Made a significant improvement in weight balance. They also improved the AWD by moving from a 50:50 power split to 60:40 split biased to the rear. I will admit they lost some personally by dropping the V8, but the supercharged V6 is decent. Flatter and wider torque curve versus the V8, but more linearand responsive than a turbocharged engine.
The 7-speed DSG was also a huge improvement versus the old 6-speed slushie. That being said i went with the (admittedly slower) 6-speed manual since i am a bit old-fashioned.
Unfortunately the B9 S4 dropped the DSG and is going with a slushie while dropping the manual completely, so this is likely my last Audi.
Everything you say is true - for me, it's just a visceral thing.
Also, VAG dropped the ball a bit in '15 - the S3 is faster than the S4. I'm sure they'll be correcting that.
There won't be any tax incentives.
In fact, if you haven't placed your order already, there won't be any tax incentives. They expire once Tesla sales top 200,000 of all units. Given what they've sold already, the 150,000 orders (up til now) on the 3 will put them over the top.
