OT: The official ACC all things thread

[wheezer]

I have a more cynical take on the ACC situation. I believe that FSU was left out of the playoffs on purpose, and "pi$$ing off" FSU, in order to give E$PN cover to pull the "top ACC properties" into their $EC. I don't think any of FSU, Clemson, UNC will end up in BIG. Miami and UVa who knows ($EC, BIG, BIG12). Duke, Pitt, Lville and NC St., Va Tech, GT will end up in BIG12. Then it will be ND + 1 to BIG10. Our good friends BC and Cuse, along with Wake and the new ACC fellas will be sent to the Land of Misfit Toys. I have zero inside info. Basing things off of greed, and that the networks control the moves.

I count eight ACC teams being added to the big 12 here
I doubt that the additions get that numerous
All existing strong leagues will add what they consider value, not trying to be nice
I question the addition of a NC state, for example, and possibly G tech ...and Pitt maybe

As a league gets very big, they have to look very hard at the borderline entries

 

[Hardslider21]

Yes

Everything I’ve heard indicates this to be the case

And we’ll know if I’m right or wrong by August 15th, at least for 2025

I have no doubt that they will get out. But I see now they are willing to pay $574M to do it. I’m manage multi million dollar projects with an engineering background. So not in finance but I do know but conferences have new media agreements in place. Of which FSU wasn’t apart of, Oregon and Washington aren’t receiving full shares. So while they might not be, they might break even compared to if they stayed in the PAC conference the next 3 seasons. The light for them is years 4-6 they will make a little more than they would’ve.
It will take 20 years to recover $574M, at that point they could have left the ACC and never have paid a cent.

Now did the B1G say, if you get out of the ACC we’ll have a discussion. Sure I can see that, that’s smart business. I don’t see it as a slam dunk. Educationally it’s kind of a square peg. Adding the Florida recruiting ground? In the NIL era, location means nothing, everyone is already recruiting nationally. I personally see football just being separated from the rest of the athletic department. It schedules games against teams in Tiers. Where wins against teams in Tier 1 are worth 5 points. Where wins against a tier 5 team are worth 1 point. You play the standard 12 games season, top 16 point totals go to the playoffs. Force teams to stop scheduling shit schools or pay a penalty points wise.

We’ll see but football as it is currently can’t survive. Money is nice but if you have the same teams only having a chance. That money will dry up some.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I have a more cynical take on the ACC situation. I believe that FSU was left out of the playoffs on purpose, and "pi$$ing off" FSU, in order to give E$PN cover to pull the "top ACC properties" into their $EC. I don't think any of FSU, Clemson, UNC will end up in BIG. Miami and UVa who knows ($EC, BIG, BIG12). Duke, Pitt, Lville and NC St., Va Tech, GT will end up in BIG12. Then it will be ND + 1 to BIG10. Our good friends BC and Cuse, along with Wake and the new ACC fellas will be sent to the Land of Misfit Toys. I have zero inside info. Basing things off of greed, and that the networks control the moves.

ESPN can't move assets like that as it would be illegal, lead to states filing lawsuits, diminish their own inventory and assets value and a host of other contractual items.

You really think ESPN wants to lose the Eastern Seaboard conference given how much money ESPN makes off the ACC?

 

[JayDogSmooth]

I have no doubt that they will get out. But I see now they are willing to pay $574M to do it. I’m manage multi million dollar projects with an engineering background. So not in finance but I do know but conferences have new media agreements in place. Of which FSU wasn’t apart of, Oregon and Washington aren’t receiving full shares. So while they might not be, they might break even compared to if they stayed in the PAC conference the next 3 seasons. The light for them is years 4-6 they will make a little more than they would’ve.
It will take 20 years to recover $574M, at that point they could have left the ACC and never have paid a cent.

Now did the B1G say, if you get out of the ACC we’ll have a discussion. Sure I can see that, that’s smart business. I don’t see it as a slam dunk. Educationally it’s kind of a square peg. Adding the Florida recruiting ground? In the NIL era, location means nothing, everyone is already recruiting nationally. I personally see football just being separated from the rest of the athletic department. It schedules games against teams in Tiers. Where wins against teams in Tier 1 are worth 5 points. Where wins against a tier 5 team are worth 1 point. You play the standard 12 games season, top 16 point totals go to the playoffs. Force teams to stop scheduling shit schools or pay a penalty points wise.

We’ll see but football as it is currently can’t survive. Money is nice but if you have the same teams only having a chance. That money will dry up some.

They’re not willing to pay, nor will be required to pay, 574 million

The numbers currently being floated range from 100-250 million

The scuttlebutt indicates a settlement in that range either by 8/15 (or an announcement made by 815 and the details coming out later), or sometime shortly there after

They also have assurances of admission into the B1G once the ACC issue is square away - obviously they can’t go public with their information as it’d be considered tampering

Naturally im biased, but similar to Recruiting and the “follow the visits” mantra, follow the steps being taken by FSU and objectively you’ll come to the conclusion that the end is near for their partnership with the ACC

 

[RUHEADHUNTER]

It’s the Cutoff date for announcing departure of the conference for following football season

thank you

 

[Ridge 22]

They have no cases. They can whine all they want, it doesn't give them any legal standing to try and get out of the contracts they willingly signed and had no issue with up until the SEC and B1G started expanding. I haven't heard a single argument they've made that makes any sense or has any standing. I'm not a lawyer, but their arguments don't even pass the average persons bullshit test.

They'll be stuck there until they can afford to get out and spare say $100 million as opposed to the half billion it would cost to get out now. They'll be out by 2030. Until then, they will be in the ACC.

This couldn't be more wrong. How are people still so clueless about realignment? FSU will be accepted in the B1G by end of the year. End of story

 

[Ridge 22]

Notre Dame will be in a conference or at least be committed to a conference within the next 3 years.

No they won't. FSU,Clemson and one other (likely NC) to the B1G. And ND with a scheduling agreement. Mark it down in stone now

 

[Ridge 22]

ND won't be dictating anything and ND options are becoming less

Not true. They will end up independent still with a scheduling agreement with the B1G. Almost guaranteed. Care to wager? You make the stakes. I am that confident

 

[Ridge 22]

Again FSU would be the only B1G school that is not an AAU member (Research University). Nebraska is the other school which was an AAU member but lost it while they were a member of the B1G and the B1G was not going to throw them out.

UCLA, USC, Washington and Oregon all AAU Members. FSU not. May not matter to the B1G.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

AAU is NOT RELEVANT anymore. Nice to have but doesn't drive the decisions. To think otherwise would mean that you believe principals > $$$. Which is laughable. Why do people still bring up this kind of misinformation.

 

[Ridge 22]

Realignment isn't that hard people. But get a clue. So many bad takes in here. FSU and Clemson will be part of the B1G shortly (FSU first). NC likely the third to follow. ND scheduling arrangement. Copy this post and mark it down. It will happen

 

[JayDogSmooth]

AAU is NOT RELEVANT anymore. Nice to have but doesn't drive the decisions. To think otherwise would mean that you believe principals > $$$. Which is laughable. Why do people still bring up this kind of misinformation.

I’m not saying FSU is equivalent of the Princeton, but allowing Oregon to enter into the conference completely validates your point of view

Again, panther is a good poster, but his way off base in this assertion

 

[ScarletNut]

I’m not saying FSU is equivalent of the Princeton, but allowing Oregon to enter into the conference completely validates your point of view

Again, panther is a good poster, but his way off base in this assertion

I believe Oregon is AAU.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

I believe Oregon is AAU.

So is USF

I’m not saying that they’re a Louisville type level academic wise, but they’re certainly not on Michigan’s level either

 

[RUTGERS95]

Not true. They will end up independent still with a scheduling agreement with the B1G. Almost guaranteed. Care to wager? You make the stakes. I am that confident

I'll play
to be clear, you are proposing the ND has a scheduling arrangement with the BIG similar to what they have with the ACC?

 

[mosito]

I'll play
to be clear, you are proposing the ND has a scheduling arrangement with the BIG similar to what they have with the ACC?

Agree, No way.

They might end up with a scheduling agreement with the Big12..... or the watered down ACC.

Absolutely no way that OSU and UM even entertain giving ND the lifeline that they will need. They would say FU, become irrelevant. SEC already going to 9 games. Off chance B10 goes to 10.


ND schedule is already seen as soft most years especially with USC underperforming. Any given year, they probably would have played 1-2 games with FSU/Clemson/Miami/UNC. Lets say only those 4 teams and no others leave. Replace that with SMU/OregonSt/WashSt/USF. Or would they take their entire Olympic sports to the Big12. Now instead of BC, UVA, UNC, GT - you have to go to Baylor, Iowa St, Kansas St, BYU. If you think they are that stuck up /prideful / insert adjective to remain Independent, you think they will be happy at moving into the Big12?

 

[RUTGERS95]

Agree, No way.

They might end up with a scheduling agreement with the Big12..... or the watered down ACC.

Absolutely no way that OSU and UM even entertain giving ND the lifeline that they will need. They would say FU, become irrelevant. SEC already going to 9 games. Off chance B10 goes to 10.


ND schedule is already seen as soft most years especially with USC underperforming. Any given year, they probably would have played 1-2 games with FSU/Clemson/Miami/UNC. Lets say only those 4 teams and no others leave. Replace that with SMU/OregonSt/WashSt/USF. Or would they take their entire Olympic sports to the Big12. Now instead of BC, UVA, UNC, GT - you have to go to Baylor, Iowa St, Kansas St, BYU. If you think they are that stuck up /prideful / insert adjective to remain Independent, you think they will be happy at moving into the Big12?

yeah
my former boss family has a building named after them at ND and he gives me my ND information (we talked more football than asset backed securities lol). They are the top of the donor food chain type. He's never been wrong so we'll see, shot him a text

He and I have talked already, I mentioned some things earlier this year from him but to suggest that the BIG would have a scheduling agreement with ND? lol no Teams can still schedule them but we are seeing less of that for obvious reasons.

 

[Ridge 22]

I'll play
to be clear, you are proposing the ND has a scheduling arrangement with the BIG similar to what they have with the ACC?

Yes. I believe this will be the outcome based on everything I have heard. Notre Dame isn't expected to act on anything until FSU and Clemson, and most likely UNC too, are gone.

The main concern/challenge ND is focused on right now is football scheduling.

 

[Hardslider21]

They’re not willing to pay, nor will be required to pay, 574 million

The numbers currently being floated range from 100-250 million

The scuttlebutt indicates a settlement in that range either by 8/15 (or an announcement made by 815 and the details coming out later), or sometime shortly there after

They also have assurances of admission into the B1G once the ACC issue is square away - obviously they can’t go public with their information as it’d be considered tampering

Naturally im biased, but similar to Recruiting and the “follow the visits” mantra, follow the steps being taken by FSU and objectively you’ll come to the conclusion that the end is near for their partnership with the ACC

I see no advantage for the ACC not to die on the hill here. To take a $100 - $250M payment and tell FSU to git. Is committing conference suicide and only further strengthens my belief of a football only conference. Teams are put in Tiers based on their performance over the last decade. Where each school can play teams in any tier they want so all rivalries can still happen.

Team tiers can change yearly being it’s based on a constantly evolving decade scale.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

I see no advantage for the ACC not to die on the hill here. To take a $100 - $250M payment and tell FSU to git. Is committing conference suicide and only further strengthens my belief of a football only conference. Teams are put in Tiers based on their performance over the last decade. Where each school can play teams in any tier they want so all rivalries can still happen.

Team tiers can change yearly being it’s based on a constantly evolving decade scale.

The advantage for both FSU and Clemson , and the ACC in turn, would be to not risk losing the lawsuit in its entirety (schools), and for the ACC, not getting anything if they lose the lawsuit

 

[JayDogSmooth]

The advantage for both FSU and Clemson , and the ACC in turn, would be to not risk losing the lawsuit in its entirety (schools), and for the ACC, not getting anything if they lose the lawsuit

I see no advantage for the ACC not to die on the hill here. To take a $100 - $250M payment and tell FSU to git. Is committing conference suicide and only further strengthens my belief of a football only conference. Teams are put in Tiers based on their performance over the last decade. Where each school can play teams in any tier they want so all rivalries can still happen.

Team tiers can change yearly being it’s based on a constantly evolving decade scale.

not following the tears concept, can you elaborate on it?

 

[Ridge 22]

The advantage for both FSU and Clemson , and the ACC in turn, would be to not risk losing the lawsuit in its entirety (schools), and for the ACC, not getting anything if they lose the lawsuit

The ACC is NOT taking this to court. To do so would require airing their dirty laundry and being exposed. Sometimes given the choice, better to take the kick in the nuts to keep your nuts.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

The AAC is NOT taking this to court. To do so would require airing their dirty laundry and being exposed. Sometimes given the choice, better to take the kick in the nuts to keep your nuts.

That too

Swafford and his family would get buried if it got to Discovery phrase

 

[Hardslider21]

not following the tears concept, can you elaborate on it?

I guess the easiest way is to avoid a lawsuit, is to ask all D1 football teams if they want to play big boy football. If no they go to D1-AA.

Say their is 60 teams left
Take the win/loss ratio from the previous 10 year period. Then multiply it by the average Strength of schedule for the same period. That way every team has a base number.
The top 12 highest numbers are in Tier 1
Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State …
Then the next 12 are tier 2 and so on

You have 5 tiers of 12 teams
All teams can schedule either own schedule of 12 games. So to keep whatever rivals they have on the schedule.
(For you) … FSU (tier 4 team) can schedule either (5) tier 1 games, (4) tier 3 games and (3) tier 1 games. Any combination really it’s truly up to the school how hard they want to make their schedule.

Now the points
Say a tier 1 - Alabama plays Tier 5 Wake Forest
A win is worth 5 points
In this case 5 points x .2 or 1 bonus point for an Alabama win for a total of 6. (it’s to eliminate crap games that end up in blow outs just to increase wins.)
Now if Wake Forest wins they beat a higher seeded opponent so they get 5 + 4 bonus points (5 x .8 =4)

After the 12 games all 60 teams have a point total from the year. Top 16 teams are in the playoffs top 8 are the home teams in round one, then use the bowl like they are now.

Tiers are ranked each offseason since the previous year get figured in and a year gets dropped from the rear.

 

[LC-88]

I count eight ACC teams being added to the big 12 here
I doubt that the additions get that numerous
All existing strong leagues will add what they consider value, not trying to be nice
I question the addition of a NC state, for example, and possibly G tech ...and Pitt maybe

As a league gets very big, they have to look very hard at the borderline entries

16+8 = 24 I believe that's where BIG12 is headed. Just my guess. We will see.

 

[LC-88]

ESPN can't move assets like that as it would be illegal, lead to states filing lawsuits, diminish their own inventory and assets value and a host of other contractual items.

You really think ESPN wants to lose the Eastern Seaboard conference given how much money ESPN makes off the ACC?

95, that was my point. FSU's snub was a false flag to put moves in motion. FSU and Clemson started it, not E$PN. I'm no TV guy, but i'd imagine that E$PN would make more money jettisoning Wake, and the rest of the misfits. Also keeps the B1G in check by keeping top properties in $EC. We will see.

I do appreciate your insight and info.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

95, that was my point. FSU's snub was a false flag to put moves in motion. FSU and Clemson started it, not E$PN. I'm no TV guy, but i'd imagine that E$PN would make more money jettisoning Wake, and the rest of the misfits. Also keeps the B1G in check by keeping top properties in $EC. We will see.

I do appreciate your insight and info.

Actually, the ACC started it.

Being at the ACC is owned by ESPN, and ESPN did nothing to urge ACC to actually remain attempt to competitive in the current landscape of college athletics on behalf of their member schools they have an obligation to (not to mention the ACC going behind member SCHOOL’s back to take those, which is in violation bylaws) then yes, ESPN is responsible.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

I guess the easiest way is to avoid a lawsuit, is to ask all D1 football teams if they want to play big boy football. If no they go to D1-AA.

Say their is 60 teams left
Take the win/loss ratio from the previous 10 year period. Then multiply it by the average Strength of schedule for the same period. That way every team has a base number.
The top 12 highest numbers are in Tier 1
Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State …
Then the next 12 are tier 2 and so on

You have 5 tiers of 12 teams
All teams can schedule either own schedule of 12 games. So to keep whatever rivals they have on the schedule.
(For you) … FSU (tier 4 team) can schedule either (5) tier 1 games, (4) tier 3 games and (3) tier 1 games. Any combination really it’s truly up to the school how hard they want to make their schedule.

Now the points
Say a tier 1 - Alabama plays Tier 5 Wake Forest
A win is worth 5 points
In this case 5 points x .2 or 1 bonus point for an Alabama win for a total of 6. (it’s to eliminate crap games that end up in blow outs just to increase wins.)
Now if Wake Forest wins they beat a higher seeded opponent so they get 5 + 4 bonus points (5 x .8 =4)

After the 12 games all 60 teams have a point total from the year. Top 16 teams are in the playoffs top 8 are the home teams in round one, then use the bowl like they are now.

Tiers are ranked each offseason since the previous year get figured in and a year gets dropped from the rear.

It sounds good in theory, but money rules the day

there’s no way in any of our lifetimes that Alabama will be ranked below Purdue, regardless of the metrics or amount of sucking Alabama does or Purdure becoming elite

 

[RuSnp]

They were definitely left out intentionaly

Pre snub, there was more of a B1G / Sec split, with the fans trending more and more towards the B1G

Post snub, it’s B1G all the way

Wel see what happens, if anything (at least for 2025), by 8/15

Can somebody walk me through how this happened in actual rational world? I'm looking at the playoff committee voting roster and I'm struggling why people like Jim Grobe or Will Shields would want to participate in such a conspiracy.

 

[Hardslider21]

It sounds good in theory, but money rules the day

there’s no way in any of our lifetimes that Alabama will be ranked below Purdue, regardless of the metrics or amount of sucking Alabama does or Purdure becoming elite

I didn’t say that they would. The 10 year window doesn’t change what you are. Except when you’re Rutgers following Chris trASH you can only improve

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Can somebody walk me through how this happened in actual rational world? I'm looking at the playoff committee voting roster and I'm struggling why people like Jim Grobe or Will Shields would want to participate in such a conspiracy.

Bama = better ratings
Bama = SEC
SEC = ESPN
Follow the $$$

 

[Hardslider21]

Bama = better ratings
Bama = SEC
SEC = ESPN
Follow the $$$

Why wouldn’t FSU be better off in the $EC?

Yes I believe my answer is opportunity

 

[satnom]

Call me crazy but I see the BIG wish list as:

1) ND
2) UNC
3) MIA
4) UVA

I see Clemson and FSU in the B12 if SEC says “We have your states already”.

GO RU

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Why wouldn’t FSU be better off in the $EC?

Yes I believe my answer is opportunity

Almost anything is better than the ACC

The preference is the B1G, but if the SEC is the only option, they’ll go there

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Call me crazy but I see the BIG wish list as:

1) ND
2) UNC
3) MIA
4) UVA

I see Clemson and FSU in the B12 if SEC says “We have your states already”.

GO RU

No chance of B12

 

[Ridge 22]

Call me crazy but I see the BIG wish list as:

1) ND
2) UNC
3) MIA
4) UVA

I see Clemson and FSU in the B12 if SEC says “We have your states already”.

GO RU

FSU and Clemson will be the first two to move. Miami is out for the B1G. It was being pushed earlier by some influential Miami donors but the B1G has higher priorities. UVA is also nowhere near the BIG's radar either. Likely to the SEC or left behind. UNC is next on the B1G's list but needs to get their act together and embrace change, plus shake NC State. Once the dominoes start falling, they likely finally 'get it' and it gets done. Or they end up in the SEC. Part of their value is linked to the Duke rivalry, which is more likely to happen in the SEC. Both scenarios are on the table. But the B1G wants them. FSU, Clemson and UNC are the only ACC schools approved by Fox. ND is the top choice, but seems most likely to come as a scheduling agreement rather than full membership. They could park the rest of their sports in the Big East. The Big 12 might have a go at the ACC carcass too. Pitt would make sense there

 

[RUTGERS95]

95, that was my point. FSU's snub was a false flag to put moves in motion. FSU and Clemson started it, not E$PN. I'm no TV guy, but i'd imagine that E$PN would make more money jettisoning Wake, and the rest of the misfits. Also keeps the B1G in check by keeping top properties in $EC. We will see.

I do appreciate your insight and info.

I may be the only person here that knows your avatar:) have quite a bit of that head stamp.

 

[mosito]

Why wouldn’t FSU be better off in the $EC?

Yes I believe my answer is opportunity

Unless ESPN can find a way to legally make it easier for FSU to join the SEC, aside from regionality no reason FSU would prefer the SEC to BIG10.

I think they would like to be the outlier that is national and not be just another SEC team in FL, which might result in the B10 taking Miami making them unique. The academic part would also be apealing.

In the immediate future adding the Florida market to B10 creates more value than adding it to the SEC. Until the SEC gets a new Media contract in 2035, the B10 will be making more money and the combination of Brands and Markets will likely keep the B10 ahead as long as the B10 wins a couple of NCs in the next 10 years.

 

[WhoRU?]

I guess the easiest way is to avoid a lawsuit, is to ask all D1 football teams if they want to play big boy football. If no they go to D1-AA.

Say their is 60 teams left
Take the win/loss ratio from the previous 10 year period. Then multiply it by the average Strength of schedule for the same period. That way every team has a base number.
The top 12 highest numbers are in Tier 1
Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State …
Then the next 12 are tier 2 and so on

You have 5 tiers of 12 teams
All teams can schedule either own schedule of 12 games. So to keep whatever rivals they have on the schedule.
(For you) … FSU (tier 4 team) can schedule either (5) tier 1 games, (4) tier 3 games and (3) tier 1 games. Any combination really it’s truly up to the school how hard they want to make their schedule.

Now the points
Say a tier 1 - Alabama plays Tier 5 Wake Forest
A win is worth 5 points
In this case 5 points x .2 or 1 bonus point for an Alabama win for a total of 6. (it’s to eliminate crap games that end up in blow outs just to increase wins.)
Now if Wake Forest wins they beat a higher seeded opponent so they get 5 + 4 bonus points (5 x .8 =4)

After the 12 games all 60 teams have a point total from the year. Top 16 teams are in the playoffs top 8 are the home teams in round one, then use the bowl like they are now.

Tiers are ranked each offseason since the previous year get figured in and a year gets dropped from the rear.

ACC (or any other conference) could do it on their own much easier…. 3 tiers. Top 5 schools get 125% of current payout. Middle tier (6 schools) get 100% of the current payout. Bottom five schools get 75%. As long as more than half the schools don’t lose, you can screw with those at the bottom.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

ACC (or any other conference) could do it on their own much easier…. 3 tiers. Top 5 schools get 125% of current payout. Middle tier (6 schools) get 100% of the current payout. Bottom five schools get 75%. As long as more than half the schools don’t lose, you can screw with those at the bottom.

Unequal revenue sharing was proposed by FSU and unilaterally rejected by the ACC leadership

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Unless ESPN can find a way to legally make it easier for FSU to join the SEC, aside from regionality no reason FSU would prefer the SEC to BIG10.

I think they would like to be the outlier that is national and not be just another SEC team in FL, which might result in the B10 taking Miami making them unique. The academic part would also be apealing.

In the immediate future adding the Florida market to B10 creates more value than adding it to the SEC. Until the SEC gets a new Media contract in 2035, the B10 will be making more money and the combination of Brands and Markets will likely keep the B10 ahead as long as the B10 wins a couple of NCs in the next 10 years.

FSU is a national school, having played a national schedule and made their Mark on the national stage as opposed to regionally

The preference is the Big Ten for a myriad of reasons, and FSU was trying to get in a handful of times and was rejected

Additionally, they were never formally invited back in the 90s regardless of the UF narrative on that point

With that being said, SEC is still extremely tempting for obvious reasons