OT: The official ACC all things thread

[mosito]

There won’t be a spot for ‘quite a few’

I meant quite a few might jump, but not to the power 2.

If teams get out for 50M, why wouldn't Louisville leave for the Big12.

With a high buyout, lets say 200M and 3 teams leave, that is 600M keeping the existing teams in the ACC with a gap that isn't significant between them and the Big12 - in addition to not wanting to be part of Big12 schools. Also, no one would pay 200M to at max make 20M more per year in the Big12.

With a low buyout, 3 schools leaving at 50M..... a total of 150M spread over years to ~15 teams won't keep anyone in the ACC especially teams like Louisville or NC State (if UNC leaves).

how big do you see the big conferences getting ? At some point there would be too many schools to increase the $ per school

SEC
I think the SEC can only get 2 teams and Not Dilute Significantly or add slightly. That would be if they got a NC and VA school for the market (which due to cord cutting isn't as lucrative as before). If the SEC plays defense in trying to get Clemson or FSU, they probably hurt the B10, but it won't increase their money - KEEP IN MIND that ESPN has a sweetheart deal with the SEC. It isn't as long as the ACC (up to 2034), but long enough that they are underpaid. And everything points to them not getting a bump for Texas and Oklahoma, just same shares as before just given to TX and OK. So regardless, it will always appear that no matter who they add, they will make significantly more money when they renegotiate in the early 2030s.

SEC STOPS at 18.

B10
The B10 has more options. If B10 adds FSU and UNC, they probably pay for themselves. Obviously ND does. No one else does. If B10 takes FSU and Miami(or Clemson for the sake of argument), they are doing it to get into the Southeast and not for increasing overall money. The next contract might end up with more money, but Miami/Clemson might result in it being 95-99% of what it would have been without them. Then comes ND. They obviously pay for themselves and another no matter who they bring. ND plus a team in the Mountain/Pacific time could help add a Late Night Window. ND plus Kansas/Georgia Tech/Virginia (assuming we took FSU and UNC/Miami to get to 20) would also work while getting schools the Presidents would like.

B10 STOPS at 20 if ND comes with FSU or NEVER. STOPS at 22 if ND comes later. I guess there is a chance at 24 with a Texas school, but i just don't see it happening.

 

[Shelby65]

I meant quite a few might jump, but not to the power 2.

If teams get out for 50M, why wouldn't Louisville leave for the Big12.

With a high buyout, lets say 200M and 3 teams leave, that is 600M keeping the existing teams in the ACC with a gap that isn't significant between them and the Big12 - in addition to not wanting to be part of Big12 schools. Also, no one would pay 200M to at max make 20M more per year in the Big12.

With a low buyout, 3 schools leaving at 50M..... a total of 150M spread over years to ~15 teams won't keep anyone in the ACC especially teams like Louisville or NC State (if UNC leaves).


SEC
I think the SEC can only get 2 teams and Not Dilute Significantly or add slightly. That would be if they got a NC and VA school for the market (which due to cord cutting isn't as lucrative as before). If the SEC plays defense in trying to get Clemson or FSU, they probably hurt the B10, but it won't increase their money - KEEP IN MIND that ESPN has a sweetheart deal with the SEC. It isn't as long as the ACC (up to 2034), but long enough that they are underpaid. And everything points to them not getting a bump for Texas and Oklahoma, just same shares as before just given to TX and OK. So regardless, it will always appear that no matter who they add, they will make significantly more money when they renegotiate in the early 2030s.

SEC STOPS at 18.

B10
The B10 has more options. If B10 adds FSU and UNC, they probably pay for themselves. Obviously ND does. No one else does. If B10 takes FSU and Miami(or Clemson for the sake of argument), they're doing it to get into the Southeast and not for increasing overall money. The next contract might end up with more money, but Miami/Clemson might result in it being 95-99% of what it would have been without them. Then comes ND. They obviously pay for themselves and another no matter who they bring. ND plus a team in the Mountain/Pacific time could help add a Late Night Window. ND plus Kansas/Georgia Tech/Virginia (assuming we took FSU and UNC/Miami) would also work while getting schools the Presidents would like.

B10 STOPS at 20 if ND comes with FSU or NEVER. STOPS at 22 if ND comes later. I guess there is a chance at 24 with a Texas school, but i just don't see it happening.

The Power 2 is where the money is...no one's paying negotiated payout cost in the hundreds of millions to join a different conference that doesn't pay out more than the ACC does.

 

[bigmatt718]

The Power 2 is where the money is...no one's paying negotiated payout cost in the hundreds of millions to join a different conference that doesn't pay out more than the ACC does.

Exactly. It'd be a lateral move if they did that. Honestly I don't think the ACC gets picked apart completely like the Pac-12 did. They'll backfill with schools like USF, Tulane, UConn, etc. On paper they'd still be on par with the Big 12...solidly above the AAC and MW but clearly behind the B1G and SEC.

 

[rutgersguy1]

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

Florida suit will be heard in Leon County on 4/9
Double Fries had pod about this last week expecting suit to stay in NC once Clemson joined
June 30th is the date I've heard for announcing conference departure for 2025

 

[mosito]

So does this just mean, "add 50M to the settlement" ?

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

So does this just mean, "add 50M to the settlement" ?

I assume so (give or take ~+25 million)

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

Leon County hearing is today, going through the motion to stay.

Judge citing case law re. first to file rule, saying there's exceptions to that and which include forum shopping, and reminding them they didn't file suit until they knew FSU was going to.

Also asked ACC "how do contractual agreements that deal with activities of a state funded university in Florida become secret?"

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

Lot of other stuff happened, cliffs below courtesy of DK21 (Danielle Kelly)

Judge calling out ACC re. 2/3 bylaw vote for material litigation
NC lawyers referencing court order in NC, judge tells counsel he's not bound by NC
Re. witnesses in NC, the assumption is they'll be several from Raycom
DK claims ACC lawyers worded statements poorly, especially Ryan avfidavit
Forum shopping - judge tells ACC you did it to file in more advantageous place (NC)
Judge says there's clear issues w/ESPN and ACC contract - asking if documents are public records under FL law, not NC law
Judge calling out ACC for not getting vote of members before filing suit

Big stuff
GOR - Judge says both sides have very good arguements, sides w/FSU b/c state entity
ACC's motion to stay the florida case is Denied (ACC filed initial lawsuit to forum shop case in NC)

Conclusion
Judge ruled agianst ACC's motion to stay (trying to stop Florida suit until NC one is over)
Motions are still pending that will be heard later in April (including venue, contracts, and discovery)

Have at it lawyers

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

4/22 is the next court date in Leon County, (FL), pertaining to motion to dismiss, motion to stay discovery, and other topics.

Those discussions will continue when the two parties reconvene on 4/22.

 

[satnom]

I think I get the court ruling patterns:

FL case - In favor of FSU

NC case - in favor of ACC

GO RU

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

I think I get the court ruling patterns:

FL case - In favor of FSU

NC case - in favor of ACC

GO RU

Hence, a settlement
200-300 million and call it a day

 

[RUTGERS95]

Hence, a settlement
200-300 million and call it a day

it'll be less

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

it'll be less

From your mouth to God's ears!

 

[mosito]

Hope it is more so that the ACC can remain a Viable 4th conference vs getting raided by the Big12. i prefer a slow death with hope in their eyes :P

FSU has the money for 250M :)

 

[RUTGERS95]

Hope it is more so that the ACC can remain a Viable 4th conference vs getting raided by the Big12. i prefer a slow death with hope in their eyes :P

FSU has the money for 250M :)

respectfully, this makes zero sense as the goal is to reduce competition and elevate your own asset
the faster the flaming wreck goes down, the better you craft looks

 

[mosito]

I agree with you as the ACC has more direct impact on us.

Still think overall having both the Big12 and ACC as distant 3rd and 4th is better long term than making the Big12 stronger... Not that a stronger Big12 poses a concern. Then again the Big12 overlaps more with the SEC so not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

Hope it is more so that the ACC can remain a Viable 4th conference vs getting raided by the Big12. i prefer a slow death with hope in their eyes :P

FSU has the money for 250M :)

They have the 250, but I hope they conference goes up in flames

 

[RUTGERS95]

I agree with you as the ACC has more direct impact on us.

Still think overall having both the Big12 and ACC as distant 3rd and 4th is better long term than making the Big12 stronger... Not that a stronger Big12 poses a concern. Then again the Big12 overlaps more with the SEC so not necessarily a bad thing.

no doubt b12 is a draw but they still have 50 teams below the 50 marke for viewership
ACC has 11
BIG has 2
SEC has 2
bear in mind, every school suggested for B12 should the ACC implode is below the 50 mark

1. Ohio State — 5.55M
2. Alabama — 5.08M
3. Michigan — 4.78M
4. Colorado — 4.50M
5. Georgia — 3.95M
6. Texas — 3.61M
7. Florida State — 3.58M
8. Notre Dame — 3.46M
9. Penn State — 3.31M
10. LSU — 2.85M
11. Southern Cal — 2.83M
12. Washington — 2.68M
13. Tennessee — 2.67M
14. Oklahoma — 2.40M
15. Nebraska — 2.39M
16. Florida — 2.12M
17. Auburn — 2.074M
18. Oregon — 2.067M
19. Texas A&M — 2.062M
20. Oregon State — 1.74M
21. Mississippi — 1.71M
22. Clemson — 1.70M
23. Missouri — 1.63M
24. Iowa — 1.60M
25. Utah — 1.53M
26. Michigan State — 1.48M
27. Wisconsin — 1.45M
28. TCU — 1.42M
29. Maryland — 1.41M
30. Minnesota — 1.37M
31. Louisville — 1.36M
32. Miami FL — 1.33M
33. Duke — 1.32M
34. UCLA — 1.25M
35. Kansas — 1.24M
36. BYU — 1.21M
37. Indiana — 1.18M
38. Iowa State — 1.15M
39. Oklahoma State — 1.14M
40. Arkansas — 1.13M
41. West Virginia — 1.095M
42. Navy — 1.090M
43. Washington State — 1.08M
44. Kentucky — 1.04M
45. Rutgers — 977K
46. North Carolina — 966K
47. Texas Tech — 950K
48. South Carolina — 900K
49. Illinois — 862K
50. Mississippi State — 839K
51. Colorado State — 814K
52. Kansas State — 810K
53. Georgia Tech — 766K
54. Syracuse — 703K
55. Purdue — 694K
56. Pittsburgh — 690K
57. Army — 683K
58. Virginia — 663K
59. NC State — 661K
60. UCF — 621K
61. Boston College — 617K
62. Arizona State — 603K
63. Houston — 587K
64. Stanford — 549K
65. Cincinnati — 481K
66. Tulane — 480K
67. Wake Forest — 464.8K
68. Northwestern — 464.7K
69. South Florida — 463.7K
70. Baylor — 454K
71. California — 450K
72. Arizona — 434K
73. Virginia Tech — 398K
74. Boise State — 338K
75. Memphis — 336K
76. Rice — 316K
77. San Jose State — 312K
78. Western Kentucky — 305K
79. UTSA — 288K
80. UNLV — 287K
81. Wyoming — 213K
82. Vanderbilt — 205K
83. SMU — 201K
84. Fresno State — 196K
85. Massachusetts — 193K
86. San Diego State — 192K
87. Buffalo — 187K
88. Coastal Carolina — 186K
89. Bowling Green — 182K
90. Air Force — 178K
91. Temple — 173K
92. Marshall — 146K
93. Tulsa — 132K
94. UAB — 129K
95. Central Michigan — 124K
96. James Madison — 123K
97. Toledo — 119K
98. Georgia State — 112K
99. New Mexico — 101K
100. UTEP — 96.9K

 

[mosito]

What does Duke do..... Can't see them in the P2 or Big12...

Stay with Syracuse and Boston College?

 

[mosito]

Something that has been mostly in FSU message boards and YouTube videos is that the wording of the ACC GOR is slightly different than the Big12 GOR. As is something tried to get fancy and either didn't word things properly or removed certain items that make a GOR iron clad.

Now this is spreading to some of the non FSU outlets based off of how ACC has responded to certain items. So either the ACC attorneys might be misspeaking on certain things, or Clemson might be right in that the wording of the ESPN agreement only allows the GOR to exist while it exists.

Doesn't mean that FSU and friends can get out for free right now, but might result in a settlement that is smaller than what people expected because ACC/ESPN did not cross their t's

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

Something that has been mostly in FSU message boards and YouTube videos is that the wording of the ACC GOR is slightly different than the Big12 GOR. As is something tried to get fancy and either didn't word things properly or removed certain items that make a GOR iron clad.

Now this is spreading to some of the non FSU outlets based off of how ACC has responded to certain items. So either the ACC attorneys might be misspeaking on certain things, or Clemson might be right in that the wording of the ESPN agreement only allows the GOR to exist while it exists.

Doesn't mean that FSU and friends can get out for free right now, but might result in a settlement that is smaller than what people expected because ACC/ESPN did not cross their t's

This exact thing was mentioned by the guy from Rohan Law on the Double Fries, No Slaw podcast posted two days ago

Big Game James Coleman (former FSU fullback) also has a podcast where this was mentioned, as he also had Rohan on

Where there's smoke... there's fire

 

[Leonard23]

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332453549084772?t=nUG37crt0DJaenmmChCO9A&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332454819860601?t=J3gdTLe87x7eiCrXd2xl7A&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332456044700088?t=k8jkr9VIUiO9yQ69ttwGNA&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332457231581193?t=8bGN9Kb2ZpERl0PNBz7anQ&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332458666115258?t=TWFSC7fTRIAuD_Sz7WPzww&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332459974713521?t=edtz782FcvLXSOIiBNao3w&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332462394876404?t=ZCZRdqIvwnPj8wTOgxOpyg&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332463627968874?t=jpXHvvIE_VxdBvOjgwT8Lg&

 

[mosito]

Wow.

B10 no eating... SEC gets stronger but won't see it in their media distribution until 2035.

UNC and Miami stuck

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

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https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332453549084772?t=nUG37crt0DJaenmmChCO9A&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332454819860601?t=J3gdTLe87x7eiCrXd2xl7A&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332456044700088?t=k8jkr9VIUiO9yQ69ttwGNA&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332457231581193?t=8bGN9Kb2ZpERl0PNBz7anQ&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332458666115258?t=TWFSC7fTRIAuD_Sz7WPzww&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332459974713521?t=edtz782FcvLXSOIiBNao3w&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332462394876404?t=ZCZRdqIvwnPj8wTOgxOpyg&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332463627968874?t=jpXHvvIE_VxdBvOjgwT8Lg&

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It's plausible

Two very high up people connected with FSU that I've spoken to have said the exact same sentiments (without all of the details) that when push comes to shove, there's no way the SEC allows the B1G to take FSU

I know the internal feeling in Tallahassee is the B1G is preferred (fans lean more towards SEC, but university wise, it's B1G)

 

[RUTGERS95]

This exact thing was mentioned by the guy from Rohan Law on the Double Fries, No Slaw podcast posted two days ago

Big Game James Coleman (former FSU fullback) also has a podcast where this was mentioned, as he also had Rohan on

Where there's smoke... there's fire

yes something to do with the states. issue is the B12 kept a clause in and the ACC took it out which is a big no no

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

yes something to do with the states. issue is the B12 kept a clause in and the ACC took it out which is a big no no

Nothing that rag tag conference does surprises me

Supposedly the stuff written by the ACC's lawyers in the NC and FL cases were worded like a second grader wrote it

Daddy's about to leave, and the Wake's/Cuse's/BC's of the world will need to put their big boy pants on or be regulated to excelling at women's lax and baseball

 

[RUTGERS95]

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https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332453549084772?t=nUG37crt0DJaenmmChCO9A&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332454819860601?t=J3gdTLe87x7eiCrXd2xl7A&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332456044700088?t=k8jkr9VIUiO9yQ69ttwGNA&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332457231581193?t=8bGN9Kb2ZpERl0PNBz7anQ&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332458666115258?t=TWFSC7fTRIAuD_Sz7WPzww&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332459974713521?t=edtz782FcvLXSOIiBNao3w&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332462394876404?t=ZCZRdqIvwnPj8wTOgxOpyg&

https://twitter.com/InsideTheBig12/status/1778332463627968874?t=jpXHvvIE_VxdBvOjgwT8Lg&

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lol I hope no one believes this as even our resident jailhouse lawyer will tell you it's collusion and contract interference. I mean I don't where to begin

 

[RUHEADHUNTER]

If true, how isn't that some sort of anti-trust laws being broken?? Any attorneys out there to comment?

 

[Leonard23]

lol I hope no one believes this as even our resident jailhouse lawyer will tell you it's collusion and contract interference. I mean I don't where to begin

I hear but what do you think ESPN has been doing? BC's Gene DeFilippo already let the cat out of the bag that ESPN was pulling the strings telling schools what to do.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I hear but what do you think ESPN has been doing? BC's Gene DeFilippo already let the cat out of the bag that ESPN was pulling the strings telling schools what to do.

I hear you but this is more grand and far more reaching. I find this very very hard to believe

 

[RU_Goo]

It makes sense that ESPN would move their valuable assets from the ACC into the SEC, rather than lose them and footprints to the BIG while they still have leverage.

I would see it being at least 4 schools (clemson, fsu, unc ) the 4th is interesting if it got there, would it be nc state - could unc threaten to go BIG if SEC doesnt take nc state, or would it be miami to keep the BIG out of florida. I think we are months away from these answers.

 

[bigmatt718]

It makes sense that ESPN would move their valuable assets from the ACC into the SEC, rather than lose them and footprints to the BIG while they still have leverage.

I would see it being at least 4 schools (clemson, fsu, unc ) the 4th is interesting if it got there, would it be nc state - could unc threaten to go BIG if SEC doesnt take nc state, or would it be miami to keep the BIG out of florida. I think we are months away from these answers.

ESPN will do everything in their power to transfer their most valuable ACC assets (FSU, Clemson, UNC) to the SEC. Will they be successful or will the B1G drive a stake into the ACC by stealing them away is the ultimate question. Now I will say that the ACC will stay intact unlike the Pac-2 and raid the most valuable AAC schools like USF, Tulane, UConn, etc. The FBS hierarchy will be the Power 2 (B1G and SEC), the Mid 2 (ACC and Big 12), and the G5 leftovers (AAC, MW, MAC, Sun Belt, C-USA).

 

[RUHotTrumpetMonkeyLove]

I read through those tweets quickly, so maybe I'm missing it, but what happens to the ACC in 2036 and beyond? Why would ESPN give two s***s about them at that point? If the ACC accepts this deal, it's not very forward thinking.

 

[megadrone]

I read through those tweets quickly, so maybe I'm missing it, but what happens to the ACC in 2036 and beyond? Why would ESPN give two s***s about them at that point? If the ACC accepts this deal, it's not very forward thinking.

survive today and worry about tomorrow down the road?

 

[mosito]

I read through those tweets quickly, so maybe I'm missing it, but what happens to the ACC in 2036 and beyond? Why would ESPN give two s***s about them at that point? If the ACC accepts this deal, it's not very forward thinking.

It gives the ACC time to find a solution that keeps them out of the G5 and with the Mini2, while preventing a Big12 raid. 10 years to figure it out.
I think it all depends on how big the SEC/B10 want to get.


IF SEC/B10 want more than 2 teams.....

• Do Pitt, Louisville, GT, VT, Duke go to the Big12
• Which of these are still available : UVA, NCState, Miami (UNC, Clemson, FSU, ND - These already taken or NS staying Indy)
• Syracuse needs the B10 /SEC to get at least 6 teams and for the Big12 to go for 4-6 to be considered. They are not ahead of Pitt, Louisville, Duke or VT. Maybe equal to GT.
• BC, Wake are the Oregon/Wash St. Followed by Syracuse and either GT/Duke as the 4 teams that will need to join the AAC.
• Stanford, Cal join whatever OSU-WSU are building out west
• SMU back to the AAC.

If the SEC/B10 stay "small" in their endeavors, taking only 1-2 teams each

• I think the ACC stays together splitting the revenue from the teams that leave.
• In 2036 they get a new contract that probably pays 50-75% of what the Big12 gets.
• The ACCN might stay as another source of revenue
• Backfill with some of these San Diego St, OSU/WSU, Tulane, South Florida, Memphis, UConn

 

[mosito]

I'll assume only 5 teams and ND leave the ACC : Clemson, FSU, UNC, Miami, NCState

Big12

1. Arizona
2. ASU
3. Baylor
4. BYU
5. UCF
6. Cincy
7. Colorado
8. Houston
9. ISU
10. Kansas
11. KSU
12. OSU
13. TCU
14. TTech
15. Utah
16. WV

ACC

1. Boston College
2. California
3. Duke
4. GTech
5. Louisville
6. Oregon State
7. Pitts
8. SMU
9. USF
10. Stanford
11. Syracuse
12. UVA
13. VT
14. Wake Forest
15. Washington State
16. San Diego / Tulane / UConn / Memphis

 

[RUTGERS95]

I read through those tweets quickly, so maybe I'm missing it, but what happens to the ACC in 2036 and beyond? Why would ESPN give two s***s about them at that point? If the ACC accepts this deal, it's not very forward thinking.

if anything even close to those tweets happens the ensuing litigation for collusion and purposeful brand destruction become epic, like Senate level hearings epic

FSU wants it's own identity as well, SEC is not the answer

 

[RU_Goo]

if anything even close to those tweets happens the ensuing litigation for collusion and purposeful brand destruction become epic, like Senate level hearings epic

FSU wants it's own identity as well, SEC is not the answer

I could see a Miami/FSU package to the BIG. I know your not on board with miami, but they both compliment eachother - miami AAU makes up for fsu lack there, plus the BIG has always added package teams. (ru/umd, usc/ucla, washington/oregon) i think that is on the table.

 

[jaydogsmooth1]

It makes sense that ESPN would move their valuable assets from the ACC into the SEC, rather than lose them and footprints to the BIG while they still have leverage.

I would see it being at least 4 schools (clemson, fsu, unc ) the 4th is interesting if it got there, would it be nc state - could unc threaten to go BIG if SEC doesnt take nc state, or would it be miami to keep the BIG out of florida. I think we are months away from these answers.

I forget the date but I believe it's sometime in August they need to announce leaving to play in a different league in 2025