When I see stats like this it’s shocking. Then again, my investment advisor tells me if I’m not careful I’m going to be one of those guys that dies with a boatload of money and never took the time to enjoy it. What do most people here view as an acceptable retirement amount for someone in their mid-40s and what about mid-50s?And that's proof millennials are buying?
Half of boomers have no retirement savings, how do you we know it's not them?
Nearly half of baby boomers have no retirement savings
More than two-fifths of baby boomers are nearing retirement with no retirement savings. That fact may surprise you if you are a typical white-collar worker, dwelling in a corporate culture of…thehill.com
That's a good question, but please clarify. Do you mean if you plan to retire in your mid 40s or mid 50s, or how much one should currently have saved and they continue to plan working.? Because generally, one's savings rate SHOULD accelerate greatly in their later 40's or in their 50s ASSUMING mortgages have been paid off and child care and college expenses have decreased? This is a huge assumption, however.
As far as your investment advisor, isn't that your business anyway? What if you enjoy your work and that gives you a sense of purpose you would not find elsewhere?
So is the question at what retirement amount do you retire at 45 or 55? My ball park numbers- at 45 years old- $5M? At 55 years -$3-4M??
He was just saying that he has a lot of clients that spend their lives building their investment portfolios but forget to enjoy their wealth along the way. He thinks I’m too conservative in my spending. Funny to hear an advisor tell me that but he’s not wrong.
I have had numerous people tell me "you have enough to retire" and "you should enjoy life." But I am enjoying my life. I like being a managing member of our small LLC, and we enjoy each other's company in the office. Can work be tedious and a grind? Of course, it's work. But I can't imagine what I would fill my time with, and I already spend too much time on social media (these boards and elsewhere), and I don't see myself spending even more time exercising and riding trails on my mountain bike (maybe "some" more, but not enough to fill the time spent at work).
I'm not even sure if we are even focused on "building our investment portfolio." We were scrupulous savers from our early 20s and it paid off. We also purchased rental properties early in our lives that will likely provide us sufficient income combined with social security in our retirement so that we will not have to dig deep into our retirement savings, if at all. But we always lived well within our means, driving old beater cars, living in homes that we could well afford, not taking second mortgages and home equity loans, etc, etc.
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For retirement, 2.5 (mil) at 55 has been my golden rule, but that’s subjective at best
Lot of variables - health, economy, location, taxes, kids, investments, insurance, inheritances, plans while retiring, hobbies, etc
Assume minimal mortgage and less bills bc kids are older. Also assume you’re not going on 5 trips / year to Tahiti and buying 3 Ferraris
At 55, id ~ 10k / month net coming in. Wouldn’t mind working if relatively stress free and pay was good
With inflatation, bills, taxes etc assume ~5k - so that leaves another 5k discreanary income
Hobbies depend on a lot - do you enjoy traveling, boating, eating out etc or ate you more of a homebody?
Do you want 2 places? One up north one in south? If so, will one be rented out part of the year?
So many variables, but it’s always better to have more than be scrambling around later in life
Lot of variables - health, economy, location, taxes, kids, investments, insurance, inheritances, plans while retiring, hobbies, etc
Assume minimal mortgage and less bills bc kids are older. Also assume you’re not going on 5 trips / year to Tahiti and buying 3 Ferraris
At 55, id ~ 10k / month net coming in. Wouldn’t mind working if relatively stress free and pay was good
With inflatation, bills, taxes etc assume ~5k - so that leaves another 5k discreanary income
Hobbies depend on a lot - do you enjoy traveling, boating, eating out etc or ate you more of a homebody?
Do you want 2 places? One up north one in south? If so, will one be rented out part of the year?
So many variables, but it’s always better to have more than be scrambling around later in life
The number you need is based on your how much you planned to spend. 25 multiplier is a good rule but be realistic about inflation and IRR. Also, adjust for your situation. If you plan to retire early, make sure you budget for health insurance.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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Its an interesting convo regarding number as itd be different for everyone.
Depends on what someones fixed monthly costs are. Mine when account for entertainment, discretionary income and money I provide to family members currently comes in at about $10K/month. I would need $25K/month to comfortably slow down working.
Overall, I feel like I’d need $10,000,000 in NW to retire comfortably right now. Granted im 32. If I was 65 that number would be different
I don't understand what's so difficult for them to get about this lol.
The stats themselves show millennials doubling net wealth since COVID.
We're not outliers, either. If they don't believe it they can go to any restaurant, bar, airport, hotel etc and see who is there.
Sensitivity from how you're perceiving it, perhaps.
Again, using the fictional millennial couple earning the combined 140k or so. Let's say they're buying that townhome in Westfield for 400-500k. Perhaps to many people that seems like a lot but the mortgage may be less than their rent, especially in Manhattan but may be even in JC or Hoboken.
It's all relative.
Again I would say perception is everything. I see people who I know earn less than me spending multiples more. Everyone prioritizes differently. But, sometimes, we have to appreciate our luck. My parents paid for my RU tuition, but I paid for grad school myself, saved up, bought at a lucky time at the tailend of an actual recession. I know people who bought before I did who now are even luckier and those after less so. But they may have made less, or maybe had more debt, or had other issues and concerns.
I think it’s being framed wrong. Millennials are hitting earnings growth years, but they arent the ones buying AMGs, A8s, and shore houses. That’s the 40+ bracket who have also seen salary increases but more importantly real estate and investment appreciation. It’s an economies of scale thing.
I would be curious to see how the previous generation’s wealth changed over the millennial’s current age brackets.
While a NJ shore home would be out of reach for most in other parts of the country it could be realistic.
Especially as millennials start to hit the 40 mark...which I don't like to think about lol
Anyone have thoughts on when the second/vacation home market cools down? I’ve been looking for a few years. Worst of all, I started looking not long before COVID so those prices are still stuck in my mind. And now I’m seeing a few of the same houses get flipped for 2x-3x with almost no improvements having been made.
I can say anecdotally on LBI for every one person who may have over overextended and needs to sell if things turn worse, there’s 10 who are like my uncle who bought 1/2 a duplex for $40k in the 80’s and is living mortgage free in a $1 million home. In terms of the higher end market, I see no end in sight. I’m friends with a builder and he’s doing new homes and a renovation for a Fortune 500 ceo and an nyc real estate developer. There’s just not enough supply to change anything.
The second home market in NV/AZ/FL has already been down by 10-15% from the top.
Please stop. I took the bait . There are no townhomes on the market 400k-500k in Westfield. Some of us old timers can actually use Zillow.
You are just talking BS
Is your app/website working?
515 Trinity Pl, Westfield, NJ 07090 | Zillow
515 Trinity Pl, Westfield NJ, is a Single Family home that contains 0 sq ft and was built in 1986.This home last sold for $415,000 in August 2021. The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $1,940/mo, which has increased by $158/mo in the last 30 days.
www.zillow.com
There was another that sold since I posted that originally.
There is also a 1BR for 340k and a 2BR for 585.
Which illustrates my point- those prices are not only insanely cheap for Manhattan but also Hoboken/JC. Thus why few mind spending on them.
Well just about anywhere else is still off the charts. The Poconos and Adirondacks used to be budget vacation home markets but good luck finding anything reasonable these days. I’ve seen bungalows that sold for $50K in the late-90s that are now $1M+.
You said townhomes . That is clearly a condo as it states . There is a difference.Is your app/website working?
515 Trinity Pl, Westfield, NJ 07090 | Zillow
515 Trinity Pl, Westfield NJ, is a Single Family home that contains 0 sq ft and was built in 1986.This home last sold for $415,000 in August 2021. The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $1,940/mo, which has increased by $158/mo in the last 30 days.
There was another that sold since I posted that originally.
There is also a 1BR for 340k and a 2BR for 585.
Which illustrates my point- those prices are not only insanely cheap for Manhattan but also Hoboken/JC. Thus why few mind spending on them.
Is your app/website working ?? Plum knows
In the Poconos? The Poconos have been overrun by NYC illicit drug operations since 2020 (and prior, but it really took off during the pandemic). Land values have fallen. Very very strange place.
I guess it depends on the area. But prices in places like Naomi, Wallenpaupack, Poconos Lake, etc. are still astronomically high. At least 2X or 3X pre-COVID prices. Not long ago 250K would get you a decent pad a block or two from a lake. Even places like the Berkshires are selling like shore towns.
For two full years (March of '20 to March of '22) the US had the highest personal savings rate in 60+ years. At the peak of the pandemic the personal savings rate was over 33%. “Savings rates are a joke” is an inaccurate statement.
Think about it like this, for the two years of the pandemic the average American put away +/- five to six years of what would be considered "typical" savings.
"
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That's the ownership. Technically most townhomes and even a SF home here and there is a condo ownership that effects the HOA and sometimes the mortgage.
It's basically as big as a townhome anyway.
I won't pick on towns but put it like...places over an hour out from NYC/Philly that many would have associated with drugs- often still do- within NJ- are crazy expensive. Piney type areas that I would have said the same thing about.
It's weird what people are looking for versus 2019.
Splitting hairs, yes, but generally speaking, in a townhome, the owner does not have other owners above or below them. Besides the noise factor of people who walk loudly (in one apartment years ago in NC, in the unit above us, the kids were constantly jumping off the kitchen counter onto the floor, and the parents did not see the problem and why it was a problem), you have to worry about water leaks, fire and other issues with other units above or below you. IMO, a townhome is more desirable, but others may feel differently.
Now they have "stacked townhomes" where one unit is on the first and second floor and the other enters on the first but is mostly on the second and third. There's no real legal difference, it's all condo ownership but it allows realtors to come in and advertise as best they can.
With noise it will depend on the construction, I am in a steel and concrete building so unless someone is at the door or yelling into a vent I don't hear much.
Maybe I'm just too much of a millennial but 400k for a 2 bedroom in Westfield strikes me as a great deal.
Ok fine .
Still there was one listing in your example.
I am not even sure if the Milennial couple in your example would make that move to a 2 bedroom “townhome” in Westfield from Hoboken. I guess if they have one kid and want to use the school system
They aren’t getting the backyard with that move.
It’s 439k. We have no idea how much work it needs. The kitchen looks like it belongs in a low budget corporate office.
It’s also been on the market 3 weeks , which in this market makes it seem like it’s not that great a deal. Although who knows , maybe it’s kicking around in AR for 50k above asking and you’re right. 400k would be a great deal
Everyone wants different things. Honestly, to afford to live in Hoboken- comfortably IMO- they would need more than 140k combined.
As a millennial, just my opinion, I don't care too much about a yard if there are parks around. If I was buying a single family home I might want a pool but I am not sure how common that is in Westfield.
It's all relative. I think two things move fastest right now- things that are very underpriced and things with lots of space for a remote worker. I think someone moving to Westfield might be a little more commute oriented versus say, someone moving to Monmouth or Hunterdon that might want a home office for 5 days at home.
My guess is too a Westfield person probably eats out more and cares less about the kitchen. Here in JC I upgraded my kitchen over time and it's all latest and greatest but realistically it is for show. One of the big reasons anyone moves here is the food scene. So you get that place for 400k, next bonus and/or tax return you plug in stainless steel and granite.
I knew a generation xer that did the reverse . She lived in Westfield and moved to Hoboken to rent. Dumped her long time boyfriend who was in and out of AA so she could enjoy the Hoboken bar scene .
That's a new wrinkle we are not familiar with. Indeed concrete and steel will deaden the sound- but not sure with those little monsters that lived above us in NC- they are probably WWE wrestlers now.
$400K for a 2 BR is Westfield is an awesome price. Of course, what are the taxes and monthly HOA fees. We had two really bad experiences with HOAs, and we will never purchase anything governed by an HOA again. I'll go homeless first!
Haha. I have seen that too...we're going to start seeing millennials hitting the divorce age soon enough and boomeranging.
They look reasonable on Zillow but it's not always right. I don't mind the HOA- the expense is annoying but mine does include a lot of stuff. The big question IMO is how many units share the burden. So if you need a new roof, are 100 units paying in? 50, 200, 500? And is there delinquency? I know at the start of COVID some folks who did not need help tried to beg out of paying. It all depends. These days, google and docket searches can get you some answers.
It will be interesting to see what the milennials divorce rates will be. Because that will certainly factor into the housing market.
Maybe Milennials will divorce less because the ones that wanted to get married really wanted to get married?
Or maybe the divorce rate is high because marriage is still hard and peeps are crazy lol !!
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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Follow the data. Really incredible to me as my 0-3% yoy appreciation rather than a crash call was based on average rates of 5.5-5.75% ish and rates blew through that.
We took the plunge 2022 spring. Thought we were buying at the peak but prices have continued to climb (not as fast) seem to be leveling now. But inventory levels are still very low. Anything priced right still has multiple offers over list in the town we bought in. Everyone's situation is different but I was one of those people that woulda, shoulda, coulda. Killed me to buy post Covid pricing but I would do it again in a heartbeat. Best decision we've ever made. We rent it. Year 1 was cost neutral, Year 2 keeping 2 weeks and slight profit. Plus we used it a ton in the off season and enjoyed that time 5 times what we expected.
I really don't expect a flood of homes on the market because most people have sub 3 percent mortgages. Going to be tough to justify upgrading unless you are paying cash. Without an overload of inventory prices should hold. There will eventually be a dip but not sure how long it will be.
Yeah this is my dilemma. Unfortunately I was too fixated on the stock market post-COVID and figured eventually housing would cool off. Instead, market got smoked and housing has done nothing but continued to climb. And unless inventory levels improve or people start losing their jobs this mess will just continue. My buddy recently bought a place in Tequesta, FL. It was sold in 1996 for $350K. Sold in 2021 for $1.6M. Just bought it end of 2022 for $3.3M. Insanity…
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