There are several problems here. First, there is no application process for becoming an AAU member. The association says it periodically reviews universities and admits them if 3/4 of the members say "yes." So there's no way of knowing how likely it is that the association would invite a school. Second, the association now includes a lot of Big Ten schools, and would probably be unhappy if it perceived that members had a conflict of interest in whether to admit a school. Finally, and most important, it's not realistic to think that the Big Ten could kick a member out for not becoming an AAU member. Note that Nebraska continues to be in the Big Ten even though it lost its AAU membership after being invited.
Pac12 dissolution discussion
- Thread starter rotorocker
- Start date
Not sure about anti-fan
I assume they mean bc we’d be playing teams from the north who we don’t have any geographical connection to
Which is similar to the Acc, as absent of Clemson and a lesser extent Miami, we’re not similar to those schools at all
Pretty sure playing Ohio state, Michigan, Penn state, usc etc would turn that sentiment around quickly
From the article:
Officials continue to work through format proposals — 3 permanent opponents and 6 rotating is still the likely choice — even though it could all be scrapped once a new commissioner is hired and if expansion is revisited.
Multiple Big Ten officials expressed concern about travel logistics with USC and UCLA, and earlier this month told Saturday Tradition that athletic scheduling/travel and academic “stress” for all student athletes at all member institutions (not just football players) must be addressed — and that USC and UCLA can’t be left “on a geographic island.”
The Big Ten and the SEC both will likely announce in May new schedule formats for their 16-team leagues in 2024. The Big Ten schedule could be reworked — and allow more flexibility for USC and UCLA — should the conference add 2 (Oregon, Washington) or more teams (Stanford, Cal) in expansion.
saturdaytradition.com
4. The slog schedule process
The further Big Ten officials delve into a new schedule format, the more exposed is the reality of USC and UCLA alone on the West Coast.Officials continue to work through format proposals — 3 permanent opponents and 6 rotating is still the likely choice — even though it could all be scrapped once a new commissioner is hired and if expansion is revisited.
Multiple Big Ten officials expressed concern about travel logistics with USC and UCLA, and earlier this month told Saturday Tradition that athletic scheduling/travel and academic “stress” for all student athletes at all member institutions (not just football players) must be addressed — and that USC and UCLA can’t be left “on a geographic island.”
The Big Ten and the SEC both will likely announce in May new schedule formats for their 16-team leagues in 2024. The Big Ten schedule could be reworked — and allow more flexibility for USC and UCLA — should the conference add 2 (Oregon, Washington) or more teams (Stanford, Cal) in expansion.
The B1G 10: Jim Harbaugh poised to finally hit the elite level in recruiting at Michigan
Matt Hayes makes his weekly trek around the Big Ten, checking in on Michigan's quest to land a 5-star quarterback, plus a look ahead to 20024 schedules and more.
saturdaytradition.com
I know people like to fixate on Oregon and Washington not generating a revenue amount that matches or exceeds the new TV deal per school payout.From the article:
4. The slog schedule process
The further Big Ten officials delve into a new schedule format, the more exposed is the reality of USC and UCLA alone on the West Coast.
Officials continue to work through format proposals — 3 permanent opponents and 6 rotating is still the likely choice — even though it could all be scrapped once a new commissioner is hired and if expansion is revisited.
Multiple Big Ten officials expressed concern about travel logistics with USC and UCLA, and earlier this month told Saturday Tradition that athletic scheduling/travel and academic “stress” for all student athletes at all member institutions (not just football players) must be addressed — and that USC and UCLA can’t be left “on a geographic island.”
The Big Ten and the SEC both will likely announce in May new schedule formats for their 16-team leagues in 2024. The Big Ten schedule could be reworked — and allow more flexibility for USC and UCLA — should the conference add 2 (Oregon, Washington) or more teams (Stanford, Cal) in expansion.
The B1G 10: Jim Harbaugh poised to finally hit the elite level in recruiting at Michigan
Matt Hayes makes his weekly trek around the Big Ten, checking in on Michigan's quest to land a 5-star quarterback, plus a look ahead to 20024 schedules and more.
-Well, you could probably say the same thing for several of the current members of the conference.
-at some point, money isn’t everything and you need to try to build the best conference. Adding Oregon and Washington solves scheduling problems, makes the perceived conference football strength better, adds a “brand” in Oregon that is helpful as things transition from cable to streaming, and effectively locks up the west coast for the B1G.
And Washington fits the academic brand of the B1G like a glove as well. Oregon not so much but at least they're better than Nebraska academically speaking and are AAU.
I've never heard of "saturdaytradition.com." Is it a reliable source?From the article:
4. The slog schedule process
The further Big Ten officials delve into a new schedule format, the more exposed is the reality of USC and UCLA alone on the West Coast.
Officials continue to work through format proposals — 3 permanent opponents and 6 rotating is still the likely choice — even though it could all be scrapped once a new commissioner is hired and if expansion is revisited.
Multiple Big Ten officials expressed concern about travel logistics with USC and UCLA, and earlier this month told Saturday Tradition that athletic scheduling/travel and academic “stress” for all student athletes at all member institutions (not just football players) must be addressed — and that USC and UCLA can’t be left “on a geographic island.”
The Big Ten and the SEC both will likely announce in May new schedule formats for their 16-team leagues in 2024. The Big Ten schedule could be reworked — and allow more flexibility for USC and UCLA — should the conference add 2 (Oregon, Washington) or more teams (Stanford, Cal) in expansion.
The B1G 10: Jim Harbaugh poised to finally hit the elite level in recruiting at Michigan
Matt Hayes makes his weekly trek around the Big Ten, checking in on Michigan's quest to land a 5-star quarterback, plus a look ahead to 20024 schedules and more.
One would have thought that UCLA, USC and the Big Ten would have considered this issue during discussions about having those teams join. It's not exactly rocket science to figure out that Los Angeles is two time zones away from the closest of the other Big Ten locations, and three time zones away from some of them.
Matt Hayes is a former reporter for the Sporting News and has covered CFB, so I wouldn't take it as just some nobody out there but he's like other journalists finding other avenues to make their way.
edit: Also yea it's not rocket science but college presidents are generally conservative. In the P5, what's the most amount of teams one conference has taken from another in one shot? IIRC 3 from the BE to the ACC. Usually it's just 2 or less. Larry Scott's failed play on the B12 was the boldest move proposed but it didn't come to fruition
In practice, even if moves are gonna happen it seems like it would be piecemeal.
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I've always thought at least 2 from the west but I could see it just be one in Stanford (carrot for ND) if they only go to 20 teams total when it's all said and done
I still think at least 2 from the west because a small handful from there is helpful geographically and it opens up the possibility to sell another late night tv package to the networks. 2-3 teams probably isn't enough for that. They may not bring as much value singularly but taken as a whole they can. Like I mentioned above, it depends on whether the B10 wants to be truly national and be a bold. They've already gone a step in the NFL's direction by distributing content across 3 broadcast networks. Take it a step further additions on the west and some from the ACC, you can slice and dice up the package (Friday nights/Late Night Sat) just like the NFL as well and have coverage across the entire country.
Does taking just one more Pacific Coast team solve the scheduling problem that much? I would think the Big Ten would want at least two. Would Stanford jump without Cal, a longtime rival? (The "Big Game" goes back to 1892.)
Personally, I don't think one is enough but it depends on what the B10 envisions the final number of schools to be.
If it's 20 then there's not much room when you account for possible ACC additions. If it's 22 or 24, then you have room for both the west coast and ACC additions. IMO, you'd probably need at least 4 from the west to sell a potential late night tv package as well.
My uninformed guess is that 24 would be an attractive number -- at least eventually. But who knows? BTW, Stanford is very active in the minor sports. It used to win the Sears Cup (or whatever it's now called) pretty regularly. I don't know how that would affect its decisionmaking.
Director's Cup is what you are referring to, and yes, Stanford takes the Olympic sports extremely seriously.
I knew it had a new name -- I just couldn't remember what! My theory (for which I have no evidence) is that Cal and Stanford would have to jump as a pair becuase of the historic rivalry, and that Stanford won't want to jump unless Oregon and Washington jump, too. Stanford is not going to wants its Olympic sports teams to have to travel almost all the time to the Midwest and East. And Cal will jump only when Stanford does. That is *pure* speculation on my part.
If Stanford wouldn’t jump to the B1G without Oregon and Washington because of their Olympic sports, it would be a bad decision on par with RU turning down the Big East.
The B1G isn’t taking 3-4 more western teams, Oregon and Washington would gladly jump without Stanford, and Stanford can enjoy their Olympic sports playing a bunch of current Mountain West teams after the AZ schools also leave for the B12.
Why do you think the B1G wouldn't take 3-4 more West Coast teams? It seems to me that the B1G shouldn't object to getting bigger so long as expansion means more money or, at least, making scheduling easier. Taking more teams from the West Coast doesn't make it impossible to take Notre Dame or teams from the ACC after the GOR ends. I can envision a Big Team with as many as 32 teams in four divisions.
From reading the California and Stanford boards, Cal would jump with or without Stanford. Go back to the Board of Regents and how they were trying to get the Big 10 to take California. Stanford is another story, very quiet. Not sure what they are thinking.
My guess is that Oregon, Washington and California would jump at the chance.
With a minimum of 5 schools, that gives them 4 games amongst themselves. Leaving another 5 or 6 with teams from the midwest and east. Worst case they would have 3 away games in the east. One a month at worst. If the Big 10 would give them a bye after a trip to the east, it would make it more manageable. Same with teams from the east going to the west coast (a bye after a trip out west would make it easier for teams in the east as well).
Even with 5 teams out west, it is still only going to be maybe 2 games against west coast teams. One here and one on the coast. Really manageable.
Because the presidents didn’t want to take any schools other than USC and UCLA, and they were told none of the other PAC12 schools mean “more money”?
Virtual every article talking about further B1G expansions mentions that Warren wanted more teams with USC//UCLA but the presidents didn’t, and the tv partners told Oregon and Washington didn’t bring enough to justify increasing the payout at the level it is going to.
This is the piece I found that's most on point; it talks about Iowa. If you can find something better, please link to it. This piece is from six months ago, which is an eternity, of course, in these matters. https://www.si.com/college/stanford...o-the-big-ten-expanding-to-more-than-16-teams
OTOH, note this more recent piece from Sports Illustrated indicating that the Big Ten is indeed interested in getting more teams on the West Coast. https://www.si.com/college/ohiostat...-ten-expansion-cal-stanford-oregon-washington
Washington, Cal, and Stanford solve the academics issue. Oregon would be a Nebraska type add.
Cal would jump in a heartbeat. Influential alums see what is going on at UCLA and USC and are not happy. They are targeting ousting Cal AD Knowlton for what they see as bad FB and MBB hires and lack of department strategy. Knowlton seems to be Cal’s version of Fred Gruninger.
Yes, that's what alums want. I'm not sure alums have a huge amount of clout at Cal. The alums never liked Knowlton, for instance, but he now has a long-term contract.So too does Justin Wilcox, the football coach. The only good news for the alums is that men's basketball coach Mark Fox has been replaced by Mark Madsen. It's hard to know what Chancellor Christ thinks beyond her criticism of the trend toward super-conferences. She will undoubtedly care about women's and Olympic sports.
FWIW, Christ does not have experience at another institution with big-time sports. She is a graduate of Douglass College (in the days when Douglass was pretty much independent and before Rutgers College became co-ed) and went to graduate school at Yale. She was a professor and administrator at Cal before spending some years as president of Smith. I have corresponded with her (although not about sports) and she seems a reasonable and thoughtful individual. Cal has had chancellors who hated sports -- Christ does not appear to be one of them.
From reading Cal's board recently, Knowlton might be caught in a scandal around the swimming program. There is hope among the alum's that it might cost him his job. They have some posts there about a petition to get him out. Below is a copy of what has been pasted on the California Bears Football forum.
The University of California-Berkeley has launched a formal investigation into Cal athletic director Jim Knowlton and executive associate athletic director Jennifer Simon-O'Neill's handling of dozens of allegations over the course of years that former Golden Bears women's swimming head coach Teri McKeever bullied swimmers on an almost daily basis, the Southern California News Group has learned.
This is basically setting up Cal version of Julie Hermann / Kyle Flood narrative. At least Wilcox (football) is not as bad as Ash. While Fox (ex MBB) was an Ash level hire, Madson (new MBB) is a Pikiell type hire. Not sexy, but effective.
Yes, McKeever got fired. My guess is that Knowlton would have gotten fired by now if the administration had thought he had covered up. But who knows? The Cal board hates Knowlton so much that anything said on it about him needs to be taken with a large grain of salt.
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Interesting. May support the notion that within 5 years there will be a semi-pro type college athletics group (SEC, B1G, maybe one other?) and the rest of college returns to true amateurism.
I have held the view for while that (on the highest level) football and basketball programs will become separate legal entities from the colleges they represent.
The sports enterprise will play licensing fees to the college for the use of their name, lease the stadium for games, etc. and pay salaries to the players that would have to cover the cost of attending school for those who want to (no more direct scholarships in these sports).
The college gets to make money off of the sport without dealing with Title IX, having the student athletes be considered employees of the school, etc. They would be able to cut a lot of costs in the rest of their sports that don’t make money.
Oh snap! I can't bust my colleague's chops any more about Cal basketball.
Cal football seems close to breaking through. Almost doesn't count except in horeshoes and hand grenades, but many of their losses are close losses.
Notre Dame 24-17
Colorado (yeah, yeah, they stink)- in OT
Washington 28-21
USC 41-35
UCLA 35-28
They beat Stanford the last two years, and for a lot of Cal fans, that's enough!
I tried to tell the Cal board that their team's record was promising, but they are a bunch of Debbie Downers there.
I feel like we would get along well with Cal fans as I feel like Cal fans are the Rutgers fans of the West Coast.
For the first one, while streaming exclusive is in the near future, it’s not here yet, and so Cable viewers are what’s driving current revenue. It’s why Rutgers was added to the B1G 10 years ago. If the same decisions were being made now and we were in the AAC the last 10 years we would not be headed to the B1G in this next round. Expansion is for looking at the next 10-20 years not the previous 10-20.
On #2, yes lots of eyeballs in the biggest markets. Do the local teams dominate the local markets? Yes and no. If that was important, San Diego State (#8 sized city) and SMU (Dallas #9) and Houston (#4) would have been in Power conferences 10 years ago. Alabama would be hung out to dry, what market are they in? Tuscaloosa, Birmingham, Montgomery? The national eyeballs are what drive it. And even moreso once streaming fully takes over in 5-10 years and it doesn’t matter where your campus is
I say that every week during football season to my work colleague. His reply lately has been- at least you have basketball to look forward to.
Interestingly enough, San Diego State and SMU have been endorsed by one Pac-12 university president as the best expansion targets for the Pac-12.
The two schools had a home-and-home in around 2000 (I went to the 2001 game, which was Cal's only win that season), and the two fan bases got along well.
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