Paterno thread (merged)

[jason21psu]

I tend to stay away from scandal talk but here is a story on our President's recent letter to alumni:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...c-barron-joe-paterno-jerry-sandusky/84112160/

 

[RU4Real]

 

[KingHigh]

Apropos of these new allegations, it is important to recognize the lessons that are learned from this. The main lessons are 1. Where there's smoke there's fire and 2. The safety of children is paramount to the public standing of a football program (psu community still is not on board with these propositions, but everyone else is).

That said. Harbaugh, a 50 year old man in a position of authority over teenage boys plays shirtless with them, sleeps over in their bedrooms and other bizarre behavior in the name of "innovative recruiting". Look, I'm not saying there are rumors, but I will say that if he is having inappropriate relationships with some of these boys he is courting, sometimes in their bedrooms, sometimes shirtless, don't tell me there were no signs. It's something to monitor.

 

[RC1978]

I tend to stay away from scandal talk but here is a story on our President's recent letter to alumni:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...c-barron-joe-paterno-jerry-sandusky/84112160/

This shows the huge difference between other schools and PSU. When RU went through the arrests and Flood issue last year you did not see the President put out a statement ripping apart the press. What you saw was the University take the time to research the truth and not afraid to be truthful and publish a report from a neutral party. The RU issue was miniscule compared to what happened at Penn St.

One of the reasons for your Presidents statement is he is petrified of the Penn St football supporters and fans. Where our President felt the Universities morals came first.

 

[Plum Street]

This shows the huge difference between other schools and PSU. When RU went through the arrests and Flood issue last year you did not see the President put out a statement ripping apart the press. What you saw was the University take the time to research the truth and not afraid to be truthful and publish a report from a neutral party. The RU issue was miniscule compared to what happened at Penn St.

One of the reasons for your Presidents statement is he is petrified of the Penn St football supporters and fans. Where our President felt the Universities morals came first.

Agreed . When it comes to college football , I have said on this board I am a win at all costs type of fan . I should actually say I am a win at most costs fan . I don't mind easy classes or throwing some players some coin . What psu has done is terrible and doesn't even make sense . Paterno is as bad as it gets. How can anyone stand for child abuse for the sake of a football game. And that university president is ridiculous .

 

[DNA22]

Great story, however, how on Earth does it make up for 3 decades of knowing that your good friend, and assistant coach, was raping teenage boys? If you truly believe it does - and you pretty much say as much "he's ok my book" - then you're every bit the "cult" member as the rest of the alumni and fan base

Nuts, first of all you are an informed enough guy to know better than to think Paterno and Sandusky were friends. That's 100% bs and u know it.

But regardless I don't know what all Joe knew and neither do u. There was never a Joe Paterno trial besides the one on the Internet and the media, when the charges were first released by the police on Sandusky, the reporting officer explicitly said that Joe Paterno was NOT a suspect of any criminal wrongdoing.

There's been a whirlwind of questionable investigations in the fresh report that conflict all sorts of evidence that point otherwise and everybody has an opinion on the matter based on all sorts of conflicting reports.

The point is you don't know what Joe knew, I don't know what Joe knew. No one knows what Joe knew besides Joe himself and he is not here anymore. Joe Paterno's family has emphatically denied that Joe knew anything and have invested huge amounts of money into proving his innocence.

With the amount of respect the Paterno Family established in the Penn State community while Joe was coach, can you really not understand why some of his fans still defend?

The truth is the ONLY thing we know for certain is that Paterno was told by Mike Mcqueary about an incident and then reported it to his superiors.... THAT IS ALL WE KNOW FOR CERTAIN. What happened beyond that is where there is the divide. Some people believe Joe Should have done more, others believe he did what he should have done. Yes he himself said looking back he wished he'd done more. That's on him, NOT on you

 

[KingHigh]

Nuts, first of all you are an informed enough guy to know better than to think Paterno and Sandusky were friends. That's 100% bs and u know it.

But regardless I don't know what all Joe knew and neither do u. There was never a Joe Paterno trial besides the one on the Internet and the media, when the charges were first released by the police on Sandusky, the reporting officer explicitly said that Joe Paterno was NOT a suspect of any criminal wrongdoing.

There's been a whirlwind of questionable investigations in the fresh report that conflict all sorts of evidence that point otherwise and everybody has an opinion on the matter based on all sorts of conflicting reports.

The point is you don't know what Joe knew, I don't know what Joe knew. No one knows what Joe knew besides Joe himself and he is not here anymore. Joe Paterno's family has emphatically denied that Joe knew anything and have invested huge amounts of money into proving his innocence.

With the amount of respect the Paterno Family established in the Penn State community while Joe was coach, can you really not understand why some of his fans still defend?

The truth is the ONLY thing we know for certain is that Paterno was told by Mike Mcqueary about an incident and then reported it to his superiors.... THAT IS ALL WE KNOW FOR CERTAIN. What happened beyond that is where there is the divide. Some people believe Joe Should have done more, others believe he did what he should have done. Yes he himself said looking back he wished he'd done more. That's on him, NOT on you

The first time I heard this rumor was 2001. You're telling me that I was hearing this sort of information and Paterno was not?

 

[wicker]

The coverup was not designed to protect JS, it was done to protect PSU. Joe may have hated Sandusky more than anything else but outing him as a molester would have brought negative attention to the school. That end result wasnt worth making the report no matter how much the two didn't get along

 

[Plum Street]

The coverup was not designed to protect JS, it was done to protect PSU. Joe may have hated Sandusky more than anything else but outing him as a molester would have brought negative attention to the school. That end result wasnt worth making the report no matter how much the two didn't get along

Yeah , but outing Jerry would have been a big deal surely ,but only a what one week story . the coverup is the problem here .

 

[tico brown]

-So if Sandusky and Paterno were not best of friends, why was JS allowed to stick around for all of those years?
-To compare Sandusky and Ray Rice is assinine to a point. Yesterday what Rice did should have given him punishment that served the crime (others have gotten away with worse but that's another argument). But this was a one time thing for Rice from his time in college and the pros that I know about. The wife could've not married him or even better, took half of everything from him in a divorce, esp when it appears that his career is over and now would be the time to get all the money and assets. But she's still with him and Rice has been issue free since the incident.

To compare to the Penn State issues that don't seem to end, there is no comparrison.

 

[DNA22]

The first time I heard this rumor was 2001. You're telling me that I was hearing this sort of information and Paterno was not?

Not even a little bit. Obviously Joe had at nothing else heard Mike Mcqueary come to him so there's no denying Joe had been informed of fishy behavior. But what could have very well happened is his superiors could have told him that an investigation had taken place and Jerry was not found to have done anything wrong and Joe just moved on thinking nothing else of it.

where the divide is is some of you are convinced that Joe, Curley, Spanier and Schultz had these secret closed door meetings where they formed a plan to sweep all this under the rug in fear of it hurting the football program.

Thing is is that there is ZERO definitive proof that that happened and people have filled in their own opinions of what actually happened when NONE of us could possibly know for sure and when you're from Jersey you are incapable of hearing anyone else's opinion but your own (btw I'm originally from Tuckerton so that's a dig on me as much anyone else)

 

[RU4Real]

Not even a little bit. Obviously Joe had at nothing else heard Mike Mcqueary come to him so there's no denying Joe had been informed of fishy behavior. But what could have very well happened is his superiors could have told him that an investigation had taken place and Jerry was not found to have done anything wrong and Joe just moved on thinking nothing else of it.

where the divide is is some of you are convinced that Joe, Curley, Spanier and Schultz had these secret closed door meetings where they formed a plan to sweep all this under the rug in fear of it hurting the football program.

Thing is is that there is ZERO definitive proof that that happened and people have filled in their own opinions of what actually happened when NONE of us could possibly know for sure and when you're from Jersey you are incapable of hearing anyone else's opinion but your own (btw I'm originally from Tuckerton so that's a dig on me as much anyone else)

Actually, there are the emails discussing what to do about it and indicating that the plan had changed "after speaking with Joe".

Your post is in conflict with several known facts of the case.

 

[kupuna133]

Nuts, first of all you are an informed enough guy to know better than to think Paterno and Sandusky were friends. That's 100% bs and u know it.

But regardless I don't know what all Joe knew and neither do u. There was never a Joe Paterno trial besides the one on the Internet and the media, when the charges were first released by the police on Sandusky, the reporting officer explicitly said that Joe Paterno was NOT a suspect of any criminal wrongdoing.

There's been a whirlwind of questionable investigations in the fresh report that conflict all sorts of evidence that point otherwise and everybody has an opinion on the matter based on all sorts of conflicting reports.

The point is you don't know what Joe knew, I don't know what Joe knew. No one knows what Joe knew besides Joe himself and he is not here anymore. Joe Paterno's family has emphatically denied that Joe knew anything and have invested huge amounts of money into proving his innocence.

With the amount of respect the Paterno Family established in the Penn State community while Joe was coach, can you really not understand why some of his fans still defend?

The truth is the ONLY thing we know for certain is that Paterno was told by Mike Mcqueary about an incident and then reported it to his superiors.... THAT IS ALL WE KNOW FOR CERTAIN. What happened beyond that is where there is the divide. Some people believe Joe Should have done more, others believe he did what he should have done. Yes he himself said looking back he wished he'd done more. That's on him, NOT on you

Paterno and Sandusky were not friends Are you serious?

They were best of friends. Documented in many ways over the years. In Paterno granting all access to the program including but not limited to:
office space
access to facilities
access to program ie. bowl trips, hotel rooms at PSU team hotels, access to the Paterno box at football games, donations to the second mile, board seats on second mile, speaking engagements, business interactions, camps on both PSU main campus and branch campuses. the list goes on and on.

So for you to say they were not friends is ludicrous. They were not just friends but best of friends.

I thought you were delusional in the other thread you are now famous for but this takes it to a whole other level. Congratulations!!!!

 

[17Q66]

-So if Sandusky and Paterno were not best of friends, why was JS allowed to stick around for all of those years?
-To compare Sandusky and Ray Rice is assinine to a point. Yesterday what Rice did should have given him punishment that served the crime (others have gotten away with worse but that's another argument). But this was a one time thing for Rice from his time in college and the pros that I know about. The wife could've not married him or even better, took half of everything from him in a divorce, esp when it appears that his career is over and now would be the time to get all the money and assets. But she's still with him and Rice has been issue free since the incident.

To compare to the Penn State issues that don't seem to end, there is no comparrison.

Did someone in this thread compare Jerry Sandusky's and Ray Rice's situations as analogs for each other? You didn't quote, and this thread is too noxious for me to go looking for it.

 

[DNA22]

Actually, there are the emails discussing what to do about it and indicating that the plan had changed "after speaking with Joe".

Your post is in conflict with several known facts of the case.

And we have no idea what was discussed in reference to those emails. A 'coverup' is one of a million different things that could have been discussed.

Honestly guys I'm done arguing. You can believe what you want and I will believe what I want. I'm sure some spineless jerkoff will be around to throw parting shots at me behind their internet-muscle driven keyboard and Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Guys no one in society cares about what this message board thinks. The idea of adults bickering like this is one of the most childish things I've ever seen. I'll leave you all to it

 

[DNA22]

Paterno and Sandusky were not friends Are you serious?

They were best of friends. Documented in many ways over the years. In Paterno granting all access to the program including but not limited to:
office space
access to facilities
access to program ie. bowl trips, hotel rooms at PSU team hotels, access to the Paterno box at football games, donations to the third mile, sitting on the board of third mile, speaking engagements, business interactions, camps on both PSU main campus and branch campuses. the list goes on and on.

So for you to say they were not friends is ludicrous. They were not just friends but best of friends.

I thought you were delusional in the other thread you are now famous for but this takes it to a whole other level. Congratulations!!!!

You're wrong. Flat out wrong but ur mind is made up and your not willing to listen and I'm going to be the adult here and step away from the conversation. Stir up whatever new lies u want, I hope it helps when u are recovering from RU losing to the dreaded Penn State again this year

 

[PatrickRU92]

The coverup was not designed to protect JS, it was done to protect PSU.

To be more correct the cover up was to protect PSU FOOTBALL

 

[kupuna133]

You're wrong. Flat out wrong but ur mind is made up and your not willing to listen and I'm going to be the adult here and step away from the conversation. Stir up whatever new lies u want, I hope it helps when u are recovering from RU losing to the dreaded Penn State again this year

AM I 1000% wrong?

These are facts not open for debate.

 

[kupuna133]

AM I 1000% wrong?

These are facts not open for debate.

My hatred is not directed to PSU but rather child molesters and those who protect them..

 

[Scarlet Craig]

You're wrong. Flat out wrong but ur mind is made up and your not willing to listen and I'm going to be the adult here and step away from the conversation. Stir up whatever new lies u want, I hope it helps when u are recovering from RU losing to the dreaded Penn State again this year

I don't mind losing in football to Penn State. It's obviously way more important to them but at least I have my dignity.

 

[tico brown]

Did someone in this thread compare Jerry Sandusky's and Ray Rice's situations as analogs for each other? You didn't quote, and this thread is too noxious for me to go looking for it.

I wish I did quote it because I couldn't find THAT post from DNA22. Good thing Terry2426 did:

*DNA22 said: ↑
"So in case u didn't know Joe Paterno also built both a library and chapel on the penn state campus. Aside from the scandal, he still did a tremendous amount for that school and if people from that school want to support him it's their right to do so.

I've seen many posters here saying Ray Rice deserves another shot in the NFL, not saying his crimes are in the same light but the only person who has had any charges against him so far is Jerey Sandusky himself.

What's most alarming is never once in this post did I see a person bash Sandusky, I'm honestly more disgusted that this asshole was doing this for 30 years or more. Using Penn State to lure children. HE is the monster, Penn State is What he used as his podium, but the choices fall solely on Sandusky.

Sigh it's alright, at least this will give some of u ammo for the never ending bash penn state train that roles through here weekly. Lord knows Rutgers isn't beating Penn State on the field anytime soon so I guess whatever helps u sleep at night."

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

And we have no idea what was discussed in reference to those emails. A 'coverup' is one of a million different things that could have been discussed.

Honestly guys I'm done arguing. You can believe what you want and I will believe what I want. I'm sure some spineless jerkoff will be around to throw parting shots at me behind their internet-muscle driven keyboard and Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Guys no one in society cares about what this message board thinks. The idea of adults bickering like this is one of the most childish things I've ever seen. I'll leave you all to it

And yet you were a part of said childish bickering! [roll]

 

[BoogieKnight]

No they were not friends and I don't think Joe was responsible for keeping JS around after JS stepped down from coaching. IMO the university did that to keep an eye on JS and I doubt Joe was happy about it. Still, Joe knew why it was being done. You will never convince me otherwise.

 

[tico brown]

Leave Joe Paterno alone!!!! He built a library at Penn State FFS!!!!!!!!!

 

[BoogieKnight]

*DNA22 said: ↑
"Lord knows Rutgers isn't beating Penn State on the field anytime soon so I guess whatever helps u sleep at night."

And WE are the ones making this about football? LOL ok pal.

 

[tico brown]

And WE are the ones making this about football? LOL ok pal.

Ehhh... I didn't say that. I was quoting someone who was comparing Sandusky to Ray Rice. I put the whole quote up because it's assinine AF!!! as you saw.

 

[BoogieKnight]

Ehhh... I didn't say that. I was quoting someone who was comparing Sandusky to Ray Rice. I put the whole quote up because it's assinine AF!!! as you saw.

Tico,

I know you didn't say it. DNA did.

 

[lighty]

What's most alarming is never once in this post did I see a person bash Sandusky, I'm honestly more disgusted that this asshole was doing this for 30 years or more. Using Penn State to lure children. HE is the monster, Penn State is What he used as his podium, but the choices fall solely on Sandusky.

+1

Everybody likes to say this has nothing to do with their hatred of Penn State and everything to do with the crimes committed against children, yet people act as if Joe Paterno was worse than the man who actually committed the crimes. Sandusky's name is mentioned about 5% of the time Joe's name comes up - at best.

There was a thread on the political board here where someone pointed out how indifferent people were with the former speaker of the house - Dennis Hastert - being convicted of child molestation charges. People were like "oh we covered it, didn't you see?" where there was maybe 2-3 pages total. Meanwhile, any mention at all of the Penn State crime gets tons and tons of pages.

If this happened at Nebraska would it have received the same anger here? Can anyone honestly say it would have?

I'm not saying Paterno and others don't deserve people looking deeper into the records to see what they may have known or how far the cover-up went. I'm saying the monster is Jerry Sandusky and people seem to want to crucify Joe Paterno or Greg Schiano or anyone who sends their kids to Penn State more than Sandusky... and that's kind of pathetic imo.

 

[MADHAT1]

The first time I heard this rumor was 2001. You're telling me that I was hearing this sort of information and Paterno was not?

Probably stopped being close friends after Paterno found out Sandusky was a child molester.
But since the pervert had coaching skills Paterno felt would help the Nit FB program win it became a boss employee relationship without friendship involved.
After awhile Paterno had to keep Sandusky out of fear that pervert would be caught outside of the
Happy Valley campus police jurisdiction and Sandusky might mention that Penn St didn't mind.

 

[tico brown]

+1

FWIW, DNA22 said that and what you picked out was probably the most sensible thing s/he said in that quote. The parts you left out OTOH...

 

[BoogieKnight]

If this happened at Nebraska would it have received the same anger here? Can anyone honestly say it would have?

Yes it would. UNC gets crucified on here constantly for a much less egregious infraction. It could have been Monmouth U and people would be disgusted with what has come out.

 

[BoogieKnight]

Probably stopped being close friends after Paterno found out Sandusky was a child molester.
But since the pervert had coaching skills Paterno felt would help the Nit FB program win it became a boss employee relationship without friendship involved.
After awhile Paterno had to keep Sandusky out of fear that pervert would be caught outside of the
Happy Valley campus police jurisdiction and Sandusky might mention that Penn St didn't mind.

Agree but I think Spanier had a lot to do with keeping JS around. I've read some things about Spanier and the guy is a piece of s#it. I think Joe knew what was going on but GS was pulling most of the strings.

 

[bryanjints]

Probably stopped being close friends after Paterno found out Sandusky was a child molester.
But since the pervert had coaching skills Paterno felt would help the Nit FB program win it became a boss employee relationship without friendship involved.
After awhile Paterno had to keep Sandusky out of fear that pervert would be caught outside of the
Happy Valley campus police jurisdiction and Sandusky might mention that Penn St didn't mind.

They never stopped being friends. Sandusky had access to the football weight room and was in there a week before everything blew up.

I'm not sure everyone understands how secure a place like that is. Believe that no one is getting in there that the head coach hasn't cleared.

I had an argument with a former Baseball player who played at Texas Tech in the 90s. He thought Joe should be given a pass. I asked him how many times he saw the inside of the football weight room. He basically said no one outside the program could go in there. Which is how it works in college football. After I told him Jerry had swiped in a week before he was arrested it ended his belief that Joe didn't know. It was incredible to see someone change stances so quickly.


Anyone who has seen how college football works from the inside and was around PSU during Joe's time knew immediately Joe covered it up. It's not about what can be proven it's just how it is. To think people like Urban Meyer doesn't know the things wrong with his program is foolish thinking. Schiano knew things wrong with his program and I truly believe he left because he didn't want his name tarnished. Every school has problems. Every program covers them up. Joe just went too far in his cover up.

The longer you stay somewhere the more you'll have to cover. The more you cover up the easier it is to justify covering up what Joe covered up.

 

[RedSpartan]

Penn State has now admitted that the settlements include claims dating back to 1971. But all you cultists keep on claiming there's no there there. I've got news for you: when you think the rest of the world is conspiring against you, it's not them that's crazy, it's you.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/8c8b...president-decries-new-joe-paterno-allegations

 

[graystork]

I tend to stay away from scandal talk but here is a story on our President's recent letter to alumni:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...c-barron-joe-paterno-jerry-sandusky/84112160/

Ok I read this stupid letter. Here's the important part.

"None of these allegations about the supposed knowledge of University employees has been substantiated in a court of law or in any other process to test their veracity.

To which I respond, so what? This is the standard Penn State defense. It's not a fact. It hasn't been proven at trial. Anyone who questions Paterno's credibility is obviously biased.

In the real world, in which we all live, any human being with half a brain is not required to suspend all mental functions on a subject because a fact has not been proven in a court of law. In fact, I would suggest that nearly 100% of the facts that we deduce, rely upon, and act upon in our daily lives are not proven "in a court of law." To the contrary, we all gain information from various sources and draw conclusions based upon what we have learned.

This process, which apparently is not sufficient for Penn State fans to even consider anything unflattering about Paterno, is also the process which a jury uses to substantiate claims "in a court of law."

To say over and over that damning information against Paterno cannot be considered, discussed, or used to make conclusions because it has not been "proven in a court of law" is pure sophistry. This is the last gasp of Paterno supporters who can't bring themselves to believe that their legendary head coach and his 409 wins could have harbored a serial child-molester for over a quarter century.

Even if all of these allegations against Paterno were proven in a court of law, an embarrassing number of Penn State fans would still not believe them, but would instead claim bias on the part of the jury or judge, or stupidity on the part of those who put forth Penn State's case. If you Penn State apologists choose not to consider information that has not yet "been proven in a court of law" that's your option. Just don't expect the rest of us to stick our heads in the sand and join your cult of denial.

 

[graystork]

Penn State has now admitted that the settlements include claims dating back to 1971. But all you cultists keep on claiming there's no there there. I've got news for you: when you think the rest of the world is conspiring against you, it's not them that's crazy, it's you.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/8c8b...president-decries-new-joe-paterno-allegations

The Associated Press obviously just hates Joe Paterno and made all of this up.

 

[ATIOH]

For the ped state fans questioning why the the rest of the world brings up Paterno more than Sandusky...

1. Besides the fringe cultist, everyone believes Sandusky raped little boys for decades. It's settled. There is some question on how much Paterno enabled the rape of little boys for decades. Therefore it's more discussable.

2. Paterno is more famous than Sandusky. Therefore he will likely be discussed more. If Joe Schmoe kills Brad Pitt DWI, the headline would likely be Brad Pitt Killed by Drunk Driver, not Joe Schmoe Drives Drunk Again.

3. Some believe that a person as messed up as a serial rapist or serial killer has no choice in what they do. They've got a screw loose and can't help but commit their heinous crimes. What might be worse is the "normal" person who chooses to look the other way and let heinous crimes be committed for personal gain.

There are a hundred different versions of the following quote. Two good ones are from Einstein and (possibly) Burke:

The world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

 

[mdh2003]

?..I'm sure some spineless jerkoff will be around to throw parting shots at me behind their internet-muscle driven keyboard ...

Since you are practically begging for it like a masochistic twink:

You, and all such psu culty nutbags can take solice that, if there is a hell, then your beloved big nosed weirdo will burn forever while satan feasts on his rotting entrails. Good riddance. The world is a better place without that scumbag, and children everywhere can rejoice in his death. One less psu man to enable child rape.

There. Feel better now?

 

[rutger80]

The President's letter comes off as tone deaf. Sounds like he doesn't care that there were more victims and the abuse went on longer, only to caution against a 'rush to judgment'. Really?

 

[GSGS]

Me thinks that "DNA" has Pedophile Supporter in his DNA.