Paterno thread (merged)

[miketd1]

Some of those fans are beyond hope.

They think the NCAA, the media, the PSU BOT, the insurance company, and some high ranking politicians have conspired to pin the Sandusky tragedy on Joe.

Yet these same folks find it impossible to believe a handful of influential people can collectively decide to conveniently do the bare minimum in an investigation for the sake of protecting the program...

 

[Doctor Worm]

And we have no idea what was discussed in reference to those emails. A 'coverup' is one of a million different things that could have been discussed.

No we don't know exactly what was discussed. But we do know the outcome of the discussion.

Background: The PSU administration had developed a three part plan in dealing with the Sandusky issue. The first was to confront Sandusky, the second was to notify Second Mile authorities, and the third and most important was to notify PA Child Welfare Services. One can only assume that had these steps been taken, Sandusky's reign of terror would have come to an end.

BUT INSTEAD: On 2/27/2001 Curley sent an email which read in part: "After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps. I am having trouble going to everyone but the person involved." (That person of course being Sandusky.) The email goes on to say that the administration would work with Sandusky in notifying Second Mile, and MAYBE PA Child Welfare Services. But if Sandusky was not cooperative, then they would definitely notify Child Welfare Services. An odd conclusion to draw, to be sure.

Then Spanier provides the smoking gun in his response: "This approach is acceptable to me... The only downside is if the message isn't heard and acted upon, and then we become vulnerable for not reporting it. But that can be assessed down the road. The approach you outline is humane and a reasonable way to proceed."

So the "humane approach" was implemented, or maybe it wasn't. We only know that nobody was notified and the atrocities continued.

We don't definitely know exactly what Paterno said, and what specific role he played in causing them to abandon their plan to notify the authorities. We can of course infer. I believe that no decision of this nature would have been made without his approval, if not his direct advocacy. But he does appear to have insulated himself from the paper trail.

http://march4truth.com/uploads/3/3/...-psu-freeh-fighting-release-of-freeh-docs.pdf The email string is on Page 8. The rest of the document is a defense of Paterno which you can read or ignore as you may choose.

 

[DJ Spanky]

So is there any doubt that DNA22 is a PSU fan?

 

[redking]

So is there any doubt that DNA22 is a PSU fan?

He's going to post his Rutgers diploma! That proves he couldn't possibly be a Penn State fan. /sarcasm

 

[DNA22]

So is there any doubt that DNA22 is a PSU fan?

I'm actually not but the way this board thinks when it comes to this issue I suppose they all need a target.

honestly Spanky like most of the newcomers on this board with different thoughts than the old guard, I'm going to bow out. I'm not really into the close minded crazy extreme fan hate all things Penn State assume worst case scenario like all ya'll. Hope u find what all of you are looking for on this message board. Later

 

[ruready4somefootball]

Is there anything else that could come out, that would make the NCAA revisit adding more sanctions?

 

[kupuna133]

This is now your 5th time saying good bye.

I hope this one sticks but I have a feeling you will be back. With this screen name or one of your others.

 

[Block R]

I'm actually not but the way this board thinks when it comes to this issue I suppose they all need a target.

honestly Spanky like most of the newcomers on this board with different thoughts than the old guard, I'm going to bow out. I'm not really into the close minded crazy extreme fan hate all things Penn State assume worst case scenario like all ya'll. Hope u find what all of you are looking for on this message board. Later

You may very well be a Rutgers grad but sadly that degree isn't being put to good use. You stated your family has a personal connection to JoePa/PSU and in my opinion that is clouding your judgement. If you want to continue to defend him and his legacy, knock yourself out but you can't honestly say you're surprised you have a contrarian opinion on this topic relative to the rest of the board. Vehemently defending a contrarian position on any internet message board will result in barbs thrown your way. Instead of rising above that and persevering, you seem to have quickly thrown in the towel with posts like the one below. It sounds more like you want "close minded crazy extreme fan" love for JoePa, in which case the folks over at BWI will welcome you with open arms.

Like really all these pages about another school just so u can bash and troll them. What a bunch of losers you all are. No doubt most of u don't have a degree from RU and YES mrs. screw, it makes a difference.

Later losers

 

[DJ Spanky]

This is now your 5th time saying good bye.

I hope this one sticks but I have a feeling you will be back. With this screen name or one of your others.

5th time? You mean just this thread, right?

 

[vkj91]

+1

Everybody likes to say this has nothing to do with their hatred of Penn State and everything to do with the crimes committed against children, yet people act as if Joe Paterno was worse than the man who actually committed the crimes. Sandusky's name is mentioned about 5% of the time Joe's name comes up - at best.

There was a thread on the political board here where someone pointed out how indifferent people were with the former speaker of the house - Dennis Hastert - being convicted of child molestation charges. People were like "oh we covered it, didn't you see?" where there was maybe 2-3 pages total. Meanwhile, any mention at all of the Penn State crime gets tons and tons of pages.

If this happened at Nebraska would it have received the same anger here? Can anyone honestly say it would have?

I'm not saying Paterno and others don't deserve people looking deeper into the records to see what they may have known or how far the cover-up went. I'm saying the monster is Jerry Sandusky and people seem to want to crucify Joe Paterno or Greg Schiano or anyone who sends their kids to Penn State more than Sandusky... and that's kind of pathetic imo.

Because people don't take to the streets and or media in defense of Sandusky. He was a pedophile, he was arrested, and he is serving the rest of his life in prison. There is nothing left to discuss about the sick individual that initiated these crimes. The same can't be said about a handful of very powerful people who allowed him to continue for their own personal gain.

 

[kupuna133]

5th time? You mean just this thread, right?

I must have overlooked some

 

[ScarletRunner]

I'm actually not but the way this board thinks when it comes to this issue I suppose they all need a target.

honestly Spanky like most of the newcomers on this board with different thoughts than the old guard, I'm going to bow out. I'm not really into the close minded crazy extreme fan hate all things Penn State assume worst case scenario like all ya'll. Hope u find what all of you are looking for on this message board. Later

How many times in this thread are you going to attempt a dramatic exit?

 

[srru86]

Wow. Penn State shouldn't have tried to collect that insurance policy. The insurance co is dragging them through the mud.

Plenty of folks get through life morally bankrupt. But stupid and greedy is a bad combination.

 

[RUScrew85]

He's going to post his Rutgers diploma! That proves he couldn't possibly be a Penn State fan. /sarcasm

Some of the biggest PSU assh*le fans are from NJ.

 

[lighty]

Because people don't take to the streets and or media in defense of Sandusky. He was a pedophile, he was arrested, and he is serving the rest of his life in prison. There is nothing left to discuss about the sick individual that initiated these crimes. The same can't be said about a handful of very powerful people who allowed him to continue for their own personal gain.

I'm sure there are people here that feel that way. There are also people here who would be showcasing the same hatred for Penn State if these crimes had never been committed. That hatred comes through loud and clear from many people and definitely plays a role in their posts. I believe it's also one reason why the monster who committed the crimes is mentioned far less than everyone else. I wish I was wrong, but the Hastert case (with the way the politics board has its regulars spinning 6-8 pages on any Obama post) basically came to a close immediately, tells me otherwise.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

At the time, one of the things that seemed very odd to me was the timing of JS retirement from Penn State.

In 1999 Jerry was just 55 years old and won "Assistant Coach of the Year" awards in 1986 and 1999.

He was at the peak of his career and probably destined to be a head coach (If not at Penn State) then somewhere else. Penn State had just won the Alamo Bowl 24-0 (only shut out by PSU in a bowl game) and Jerry retires with a special retirement package????

I remember talking to a PSU friend about this surprising/schocking development and he said Jerry just wanted to devote more time to the Second Mile????

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[CYBuci]

I'm sure there are people here that feel that way. There are also people here who would be showcasing the same hatred for Penn State if these crimes had never been committed. That hatred comes through loud and clear from many people and definitely plays a role in their posts. I believe it's also one reason why the monster who committed the crimes is mentioned far less than everyone else. I wish I was wrong, but the Hastert case (with the way the politics board has its regulars spinning 6-8 pages on any Obama post) basically came to a close immediately, tells me otherwise.

This is what happens in the world when you're held on a pedestal and considered a "moral compass" by everyone from the top down (Presidents to the man on the street) when it comes to Joe Paterno. He relished the position of being considered an Elder Statesman for College Football. When Tom Osbourne was being trashed for Lawrence Phillips, the world had good ole Joe Paterno to look towards. He would never allow such a player on his team. When Bobby Bowden was having issues at Free Shoes University, the world had Joe Paterno to fall back on because Joe would never allow that type of behavior on his team.

The man enjoyed and wallowed in the praise that was bestowed upon him. All the while having this stuff in the background where only a few people "saw" what was going on. Sure, Joe was old since before the dawn of mankind, but he was held in the same esteem by some people as Moses. When you enjoy the treatment of being Joe Paterno for all these years, you also get the anger and hatred that comes from people that expected Joe Paterno to not only do the right thing morally, but not to just do the minimum required legally.

People are angry because the cover-up is much worse than even the crime. There is a feeling among many in this country that Penn State doesn't care about the welfare of children. It's all just words. There is a feeling that while they brag about doing fundraisers to help children, its just for show.

What galls me the most is that there are people in the PSU community that would continue to demonize the actual victims in this case to protect the legacy of their pathetic football coach. If this had been done to any one of their own children, I shudder to think they would put the football team and Joe Paterno over the welfare of their own children. Before the outrage of my statement, there is nothing on BWI that dissuades me from having this feeling. Joe Paterno and PSU football over the victims.

When a PSU fan says to me , "Success With Honor"---I will laugh in their face and perhaps, I'll consider not punching them. They have known success at the expense of their honor and the victims. For this, the program seriously needs to be shutdown. Don't worry about the PSU football players and the rest of the "innocent" kids that would be affected by this outcome. They should have cared about the innocent children that weren't paying to attend PSU and many of whom were taken advantage of by Sandusky and it sounds like---silenced by Paterno.

 

[vkj91]

I'm sure there are people here that feel that way. There are also people here who would be showcasing the same hatred for Penn State if these crimes had never been committed. That hatred comes through loud and clear from many people and definitely plays a role in their posts. I believe it's also one reason why the monster who committed the crimes is mentioned far less than everyone else. I wish I was wrong, but the Hastert case (with the way the politics board has its regulars spinning 6-8 pages on any Obama post) basically came to a close immediately, tells me otherwise.

If not for JoBots and Cult members constantly trying to clear his name and remove all guilt from the school nobody would even be talking about this. Do you rally expect people to read threads defending Paterno and PSU and just offer up they think Sandusky is evil? Everybody knows this...that ship has sailed.

 

[srru86]

Again, one or two crazies doesn't represent an entire fan base.

Then how do certified crazies keep getting elected to the alumni seats on your board?

 

[srru86]

Washington Post
Penn State payments cover Sandusky accusations from as far back as 1971
"Penn State confirmed Sunday that its payouts to alleged victims of sexual abuse by former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky cover incidents that date from 1971"

 

[DNA22]

At the time, one of the things that seemed very odd to me was the timing of JS retirement from Penn State.

In 1999 Jerry was just 55 years old and won "Assistant Coach of the Year" awards in 1986 and 1999.

He was at the peak of his career and probably destined to be a head coach (If not at Penn State) then somewhere else. Penn State had just won the Alamo Bowl 24-0 (only shut out by PSU in a bowl game) and Jerry retires with a special retirement package????

I remember talking to a PSU friend about this surprising/schocking development and he said Jerry just wanted to devote more time to the Second Mile????

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Yes I said I was bowing out and go ahead and trash me as I deserve that, and no I'm not discussing the PSU Paterno thing further but you make a very fair point here Panther Growl.

Back after the 97 or 98 season, something like that, Jerry Sandusky had a very well documented meeting with Joe Paterno about his future at the program and eventually taking over for Joe as Head Coach (keep in mind, this was before any of the charges or rumors or anything related to the scandal had come out). Joe flat out told him that he would not be the head coach at PSU and there was certainly a falling out.

What my personal opinion is on this (and I could be wrong) is that rather than take a Hc job at another program, Sandusky had already established his charity to lure children and rather than leave all that he just decided to stay where at the time he was a well respected member of the community and no body would blink an eye at the thought of him having a charity to help kids. (Again we're talking back in 1999 even before Mike Mcqueary had his famous talk with Paterno)

I could be right, I could be wrong but one thing we can all agree on is that Sandusky is a sick individual who deserves to be publicly executed

 

[ScarletRunner]

If not for JoBots and Cult members constantly trying to clear his name and remove all guilt from the school nobody would even be talking about this. Do you rally expect people to read threads defending Paterno and PSU and just offer up they think Sandusky is evil? Everybody knows this...that ship has sailed.

I think it's the fact that they aren't even willing to entertain the notion that maybe Paterno did something wrong. Anytime there is an allegation that impugns Paterno, they will bend and twist logic and hide behind a legal or absolute burden of proof.

The latest example of this is a victim coming forward and saying he went to Paterno directly. Despite the fact that it is very possible that this guy was the victim of molestation and/or rape, they immediately and callously label it as an outright lie. They never reacted this vehemently and incredulously when other victims came forward... But then those victims never mentioned Paterno directly.

What's even more amazing to me is you now have a university president essentially calling a potential victim of child sex abuse a liar.

 

[ScarletRunner]

Yes I said I was bowing out and go ahead and trash me as I deserve that, and no I'm not discussing the PSU Paterno thing further but you make a very fair point here Panther Growl.

Back after the 97 or 98 season, something like that, Jerry Sandusky had a very well documented meeting with Joe Paterno about his future at the program and eventually taking over for Joe as Head Coach (keep in mind, this was before any of the charges or rumors or anything related to the scandal had come out). Joe flat out told him that he would not be the head coach at PSU and there was certainly a falling out.

What my personal opinion is on this (and I could be wrong) is that rather than take a Hc job at another program, Sandusky had already established his charity to lure children and rather than leave all that he just decided to stay where at the time he was a well respected member of the community and no body would blink an eye at the thought of him having a charity to help kids. (Again we're talking back in 1999 even before Mike Mcqueary had his famous talk with Paterno)

I could be right, I could be wrong but one thing we can all agree on is that Sandusky is a sick individual who deserves to be publicly executed

Well, looks like we found some common ground.

 

[theRU]

Just wondering at what point we can drop the paterno stuff? How long until we start looking like sarahcuse with their Rutgers Dumpsterfire thread?

 

[miketd1]

Everyone -- from local police right on up to JoePa himself -- bent over backwards to exonerate Sandusky, no matter how many warning flags he raised. Literally, the bare minimum was done to investigate him on multiple(!) occasions spanning several decades(!) despite the considerable and mounting evidence that something was seriously wrong.

Why?

I have yet to hear of any reason that makes sense other than to protect the image of PSU and the football program.

 

[miketd1]

Just wondering at what point we can drop the paterno stuff? How long until we start looking like sarahcuse with their Rutgers Dumpsterfire thread?

It made national headlines this week.

 

[mikemarc1]

Just wondering at what point we can drop the paterno stuff? How long until we start looking like sarahcuse with their Rutgers Dumpsterfire thread?

Until it becomes a non-story and the victims get their justice and the truth?

 

[ScarletRunner]

Just wondering at what point we can drop the paterno stuff? How long until we start looking like sarahcuse with their Rutgers Dumpsterfire thread?

When there are new allegations involved in arguably the biggest college athletics scandal of all time, and the program in question is in our division and geographically our closest conference mate... There could be some dialogue about it.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Yes I said I was bowing out and go ahead and trash me as I deserve that, and no I'm not discussing the PSU Paterno thing further but you make a very fair point here Panther Growl.

Back after the 97 or 98 season, something like that, Jerry Sandusky had a very well documented meeting with Joe Paterno about his future at the program and eventually taking over for Joe as Head Coach (keep in mind, this was before any of the charges or rumors or anything related to the scandal had come out). Joe flat out told him that he would not be the head coach at PSU and there was certainly a falling out.

What my personal opinion is on this (and I could be wrong) is that rather than take a Hc job at another program, Sandusky had already established his charity to lure children and rather than leave all that he just decided to stay where at the time he was a well respected member of the community and no body would blink an eye at the thought of him having a charity to help kids. (Again we're talking back in 1999 even before Mike Mcqueary had his famous talk with Paterno)

I could be right, I could be wrong but one thing we can all agree on is that Sandusky is a sick individual who deserves to be publicly executed

Even if I accept the premise that Joe told Jerry that he will never be the head coach at Penn State (because Joe planned to coach will into his 80's) Jerry could have remained a highly paid DC at Penn State and continued to be involved in Second Mile (near State College).

Retiring at 55 with a special retirement package seemed odd to me at the time and still does now.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[160louis]

At the time, one of the things that seemed very odd to me was the timing of JS retirement from Penn State.

In 1999 Jerry was just 55 years old and won "Assistant Coach of the Year" awards in 1986 and 1999.

He was at the peak of his career and probably destined to be a head coach (If not at Penn State) then somewhere else. Penn State had just won the Alamo Bowl 24-0 (only shut out by PSU in a bowl game) and Jerry retires with a special retirement package????

I remember talking to a PSU friend about this surprising/schocking development and he said Jerry just wanted to devote more time to the Second Mile????

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Ding Ding! I mean, sure maybe he was tired of football and never wanted to be a head coach. Or maybe PSU found out and told him to go away and never coach again in which he did. I could be wrong but I thought they attempted to ban him from the facilities when he retired as well.

 

[theRU]

Guess i'm just fatigued by it.

 

[DNA22]

Even if I accept the premise that Joe told Jerry that he will never be the head coach at Penn State (because Joe planned to coach will into his 80's) Jerry could have remained a highly paid DC at Penn State and continued to be involved in Second Mile (near State College).

Retiring at 55 with a special retirement package seemed odd to me at the time and still does now.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

With respect, there's far more things about Jerry Sandusky that seem more odd than retiring at 55. Hell if like to be retired by then, that's one of the only normal things about the guy.

 

[ScarletRunner]

Guess i'm just fatigued by it.

You should turn off the macro that automatically opens every thread, and just switch to manual. That way you can open just the threads that don't fatigue you.

 

[srru86]

Just wondering at what point we can drop the paterno stuff?

Said it before, when the JoeBots stop insisting on pushing for new and updated idolatry of this un-indicted conspirator.

Harrisburg Patriot News.
Penn State is still caught in its Paterno quandary

 

[NotInRHouse]

+1

Everybody likes to say this has nothing to do with their hatred of Penn State and everything to do with the crimes committed against children, yet people act as if Joe Paterno was worse than the man who actually committed the crimes. Sandusky's name is mentioned about 5% of the time Joe's name comes up - at best.

There was a thread on the political board here where someone pointed out how indifferent people were with the former speaker of the house - Dennis Hastert - being convicted of child molestation charges. People were like "oh we covered it, didn't you see?" where there was maybe 2-3 pages total. Meanwhile, any mention at all of the Penn State crime gets tons and tons of pages.

If this happened at Nebraska would it have received the same anger here? Can anyone honestly say it would have?

I'm not saying Paterno and others don't deserve people looking deeper into the records to see what they may have known or how far the cover-up went. I'm saying the monster is Jerry Sandusky and people seem to want to crucify Joe Paterno or Greg Schiano or anyone who sends their kids to Penn State more than Sandusky... and that's kind of pathetic imo.

There are a few issues at hand here.

Here in NJ, we are subject to more of their fans and more people who devote love to Paterno over all else. There is a car I often see parked near my condo with NJ plates and a "JVP" magnet. I often wonder how any child abuse victim and his or her family feels walking past that car. But I am confident that its owner doesn't care.

So yeah, we wouldn't care as much if it were Nebraska, but then again would Nebraska or any other fans have such an atrocious reaction to a similar situation?

Which brings me to my second point. NJ is a pretty Catholic state, definitely having one of the largest Catholic populations. Yet I don't remember any Catholics heading to the streets, turning over cars, erecting statues of priests that said or did nothing while knowing of abuse.

If anything, there is now a Pope who publicly excoriates those that cover it up.

The President of State Penn emails the community saying the university is the victim.

That is the difference. And frankly, I think the reaction at any other school would line up a lot more with the Pope than what happens in Central PA.

That is what makes people so angry.

 

[theRU]

What is being done to help the victims? Maybe we should have RU students and alumni set up a fundraiser to "help the victims of Penn State Child Abuse" . If It helps the victims and raises awareness of who the perpetrators were that could be powerful. I'm sure it'll get attorneys involved but that could also be a PR nightmare for PSU... shutting down a fundraisers for victims of child abuse.

 

[ScarletRunner]

What is being done to help the victims? Maybe we should have RU students and alumni set up a fundraiser to "help the victims of Penn State Child Abuse" . If It helps the victims and raises awareness of who the perpetrators were that could be powerful. I'm sure it'll get attorneys involved but that could also be a PR nightmare for PSU... shutting down a fundraisers for victims of child abuse.

Lol I thought you were fatigued by this topic. Now you want to spearhead a fundraising effort?

 

[mikemarc1]

Guess i'm just fatigued by it.

Fair enough..then just don't open the thread, I would say. No reason to open it if you are fatigued by it.

 

[RUScrew85]

Yes I said I was bowing out and go ahead and trash me as I deserve that, and no I'm not discussing the PSU Paterno thing further but you make a very fair point here Panther Growl.

Back after the 97 or 98 season, something like that, Jerry Sandusky had a very well documented meeting with Joe Paterno about his future at the program and eventually taking over for Joe as Head Coach (keep in mind, this was before any of the charges or rumors or anything related to the scandal had come out). Joe flat out told him that he would not be the head coach at PSU and there was certainly a falling out.

What my personal opinion is on this (and I could be wrong) is that rather than take a Hc job at another program, Sandusky had already established his charity to lure children and rather than leave all that he just decided to stay where at the time he was a well respected member of the community and no body would blink an eye at the thought of him having a charity to help kids. (Again we're talking back in 1999 even before Mike Mcqueary had his famous talk with Paterno)

I could be right, I could be wrong but one thing we can all agree on is that Sandusky is a sick individual who deserves to be publicly executed

The cash settlements say otherwise.

 

[theRU]

Lol I thought you were fatigued by this topic. Now you want to spearhead a fundraising effort?

I'm not going to spearhead it.. I'm just saying. If everyone is concerned about the victims find a way to help them AND stick it to PSU.

Seems to me like more people are concerned about just sticking it to a football rival. I hope i'm mistaken.